Oxford Air Training
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All flying wannabe's
I am sat here half way through my flying stage at OAT and i only have three weeks left...basically i have about fifty hours to do and only three weeks. I have been out here for two months and the organisation to say the least is pretty shocking!! Aparently at their new site (based in Goodyear) things are going very well.... We however have been forgotten about
. It is prooving to be most frustrating and no matter who you speak to you can never get an honest answer from them!! Sorry for making this a bit of a rant but this is how me and alot of my fellow classmates are feeling right now and absolutly nothing is being done about it... at the induction days they seem very nice to you...of course they are you are worth 60k just waiting to be sucked in by the nice ladies at HR!! All so the MD can come out to Arizona to get a sun tan!!
AHHHHHHHHHHH
Ne way the course is kinda well thought through and the people on the courses are great....if you get through ground school and are relativly co-ordinated then you stand a good chance at getting a job at the end of it....now they are off to goodyear the flying should be great but as for us....WE DONT EVEN EXIST!
Dont take all of this as gospel...it is great here but they forget about you once youve paid and if you rock the boat then that "reflects badly on you" so i have been told
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I am sat here half way through my flying stage at OAT and i only have three weeks left...basically i have about fifty hours to do and only three weeks. I have been out here for two months and the organisation to say the least is pretty shocking!! Aparently at their new site (based in Goodyear) things are going very well.... We however have been forgotten about
. It is prooving to be most frustrating and no matter who you speak to you can never get an honest answer from them!! Sorry for making this a bit of a rant but this is how me and alot of my fellow classmates are feeling right now and absolutly nothing is being done about it... at the induction days they seem very nice to you...of course they are you are worth 60k just waiting to be sucked in by the nice ladies at HR!! All so the MD can come out to Arizona to get a sun tan!!AHHHHHHHHHHH
Ne way the course is kinda well thought through and the people on the courses are great....if you get through ground school and are relativly co-ordinated then you stand a good chance at getting a job at the end of it....now they are off to goodyear the flying should be great but as for us....WE DONT EVEN EXIST!
Dont take all of this as gospel...it is great here but they forget about you once youve paid and if you rock the boat then that "reflects badly on you" so i have been told
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Bishop84 - You seem to be raising a worrying situation over in the states which in fact seems to contradict the messages that OAT convey to those wishing to join the APP scheme.
I was under the impression that OAT offer a pretty good customer service facility for concerns such as those you are experiencing.
Do you mind me asking - have you personally paid for your flying training or have the costs been met by other means (i.e. sponsorship / parents?)
Also - how old are you?
I was under the impression that OAT offer a pretty good customer service facility for concerns such as those you are experiencing.
Do you mind me asking - have you personally paid for your flying training or have the costs been met by other means (i.e. sponsorship / parents?)
Also - how old are you?
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The point I'm trying to make here is that you don't come onto a forum like this and have a whinge because things aint working out for you. Surely - if there's so many folk unhappy with the way they are being treated then they should make a stand and get something done about it.
It's not difficult to approach whoever is in charge in a professional and diplomatic manner and raise the issues they feel need addressing.
By Bishop84 coming on this forum and representing his equally-disappointed colleagues shows immaturity. Personally I get the impression that Bishop84 is used to being spoonfed rather than taking the 'bull by the horns' and sorting stuff out.
This is clearly an internal OAT issue and he shouldn't be so quick to fire his comments at the rest of us (-especially those looking to go to OAT in the near future! (like me!))
I'm less concerned now about the service that OAT offer - but more worried about the type of people they're letting on the scheme!
It's not difficult to approach whoever is in charge in a professional and diplomatic manner and raise the issues they feel need addressing.
By Bishop84 coming on this forum and representing his equally-disappointed colleagues shows immaturity. Personally I get the impression that Bishop84 is used to being spoonfed rather than taking the 'bull by the horns' and sorting stuff out.
This is clearly an internal OAT issue and he shouldn't be so quick to fire his comments at the rest of us (-especially those looking to go to OAT in the near future! (like me!))
I'm less concerned now about the service that OAT offer - but more worried about the type of people they're letting on the scheme!
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your being rather naieve, the whole point of a forum is to have discussions and let people know about things positive or negative and if i have read bishops post correctly he implies that if you do complain, then your chances of being put forward to interviews etc diminish somewhat, this is entirely possible as OAT are not going to want people to rock the boat, in fact i have heard of this happening before on an old thread
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McGoo - I can assure you I'm not being naive.
I've read Bishop84's posts and I appreciate that a forum is for people to make their thoughts and feelings known -whether it is positive, negative or neutral.
I wouldn't be surprised if OAT were less keen to put you forward for airline interviews if you are a known "boat rocker". Boat rockers are also known as "loose cannons" - and you only get this reputation if you're constantly making comments such as those made by Bishop84 without going through the correct channels first and making your feelings known in a constructive and positive manner (i.e. coming onto this forum sure isn't the way to get OAT to take notice).
I'd be interested to see how long it takes Bishop84 to find employment on completion of the OAT course....
I've read Bishop84's posts and I appreciate that a forum is for people to make their thoughts and feelings known -whether it is positive, negative or neutral.
I wouldn't be surprised if OAT were less keen to put you forward for airline interviews if you are a known "boat rocker". Boat rockers are also known as "loose cannons" - and you only get this reputation if you're constantly making comments such as those made by Bishop84 without going through the correct channels first and making your feelings known in a constructive and positive manner (i.e. coming onto this forum sure isn't the way to get OAT to take notice).
I'd be interested to see how long it takes Bishop84 to find employment on completion of the OAT course....
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Originally Posted by Boing7117
McGoo - I can assure you I'm not being naive.
You appear to have missed the point, bishop is saying that OAT frown upon any sort of complaints being made.
However I will wait for him to reply himself.
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Boeing 7117
Bit harsh mate. Your last comment about Bishop84's employment prospects is particularly uncalled for - you don't know him and are basing your opinion on one post. Maybe posting here won't solve the problem, but training delays are incredibly frustrating, so cut him some slack.
Bit harsh mate. Your last comment about Bishop84's employment prospects is particularly uncalled for - you don't know him and are basing your opinion on one post. Maybe posting here won't solve the problem, but training delays are incredibly frustrating, so cut him some slack.
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I have to agree, Bing, you seem to have jumped the gun a bit. A few of us here seem to understand exactly why Bishop has reservations about coming forward with his issues. All it would take is one misunderstanding and he could easily be "mislabelled", like you have done.
My advice to Bishop would be to "chase up" the training, so to speak. However, try not to nag people constantly
My advice to Bishop would be to "chase up" the training, so to speak. However, try not to nag people constantly
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Okay okay! I'll step back and give him chance to respond!
But for those who think I'm jumping the gun - just go back a re-read Bishop84's original post - and seriously re-read it.
I have to admit that I've looked over my comments since a few you disagreed with me - and after having read the comments made by Bishop84 - I'll stand by what I say.
But for those who think I'm jumping the gun - just go back a re-read Bishop84's original post - and seriously re-read it.
I have to admit that I've looked over my comments since a few you disagreed with me - and after having read the comments made by Bishop84 - I'll stand by what I say.
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Therapist
Before anyone makes a decision to chose the 'right' school for them, they should first visit the school and see the facilities and the investment and meet and talk with the students who are actually training there.
Those that do will notice the amazing investment in aircraft, simulators and staff that Oxford has made and will also be aware of the wonderful reputation this school has in the world. They should also be impressed with the offer to repay most of the student's training costs in the event they should fail to reach the grade in the early stages of their flying. Compare that with Cabair's promise to keep your money should you fail!
The 'sales' team at Oxford are impressive in that they make no false promises of employment but they definitely do help graduates to find work and that marks the difference in my opinion with the other schools. Oxford seeks and achieves excellence. Cabair is not in the same league and CTC is playing at it. Jerez is good but has made little investment in its extra facilities. Look for the simulators!
As I say, go and visit and then the decision will be easy.
Those that do will notice the amazing investment in aircraft, simulators and staff that Oxford has made and will also be aware of the wonderful reputation this school has in the world. They should also be impressed with the offer to repay most of the student's training costs in the event they should fail to reach the grade in the early stages of their flying. Compare that with Cabair's promise to keep your money should you fail!
The 'sales' team at Oxford are impressive in that they make no false promises of employment but they definitely do help graduates to find work and that marks the difference in my opinion with the other schools. Oxford seeks and achieves excellence. Cabair is not in the same league and CTC is playing at it. Jerez is good but has made little investment in its extra facilities. Look for the simulators!
As I say, go and visit and then the decision will be easy.
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Hmmm,
It seems that a course of APP students have become caught up in the logistical nightmare of moving an operation from one base to another. The resources at Scottsdale seem to be strained at the very least whilst everything is being ploughed into the new facility thus leaving the remaining students at the old base neglected. None of this can be determined from reading a brochure or visiting Kidlington. Apparently, the customer service is lacking in the eyes of the final course at SDL & some corrective action must be taken to reassure the customers that their significant investment will bear fruit in the timescale originally suggested by the FTO.
Boing 7117: You may be surprised to learn that representation has been made to the highest level with disappointing results.
... Not so; clearly this is a place potential customers seek guidance. Negative discussion about a product will almost certainly get noticed by both the retailer & customer.
Perhaps there is something wrong with the selection process? Have you been selected? 
It seems that a course of APP students have become caught up in the logistical nightmare of moving an operation from one base to another. The resources at Scottsdale seem to be strained at the very least whilst everything is being ploughed into the new facility thus leaving the remaining students at the old base neglected. None of this can be determined from reading a brochure or visiting Kidlington. Apparently, the customer service is lacking in the eyes of the final course at SDL & some corrective action must be taken to reassure the customers that their significant investment will bear fruit in the timescale originally suggested by the FTO.
Boing 7117: You may be surprised to learn that representation has been made to the highest level with disappointing results.
(i.e. coming onto this forum sure isn't the way to get OAT to take notice).
I'm less concerned now about the service that OAT offer - but more worried about the type of people they're letting on the scheme!
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Therapist, I'm sorry but I have to take issue with your statement:
"The 'sales' team at Oxford are impressive in that they make no false promises of employment but they definitely do help graduates to find work and that marks the difference in my opinion with the other schools. Oxford seeks and achieves excellence. Cabair is not in the same league and CTC is playing at it. Jerez is good but has made little investment in its extra facilities. Look for the simulators!"
I indeed visited Oxford, Jerez and CTC before making a decision and the choice is not so clear cut as you make out. There are a multitude of factors many of which are discussed on a variety of threads - for me one factor in making a choice was the fact that Jerez do their entire course in one place.
In terms of simulator choice, the simulator at Jerez is a Hawker 800 and not the 737's at Oxford I'm happy to concede. Now that is not a disadvantage at all - consider BA's simulator at interview is the BAC1-11 which relies on far more manual skills and has an older autopilot which forces you to demonstrate flying/handling skills that you would be expected to have acquired in training - things which you might not have covered on a 'modern' sim. Consider also that BA sends their candidates to do their JOC at Jerez and not Oxford. Although to be fair in this discussion the MCC/JOC is more about Jet Orientation and working in a Multi-Crew environment and familiarising with a company's SOP's, not so much about flying a plane.
In terms of helping graduates finding work, Thomsonfly are coming down to interview candidates for up to 6 positions this week at Jerez. Number of candidates being interviewed having been recommended by FTE = 7. Pretty good odds I would say
"The 'sales' team at Oxford are impressive in that they make no false promises of employment but they definitely do help graduates to find work and that marks the difference in my opinion with the other schools. Oxford seeks and achieves excellence. Cabair is not in the same league and CTC is playing at it. Jerez is good but has made little investment in its extra facilities. Look for the simulators!"
I indeed visited Oxford, Jerez and CTC before making a decision and the choice is not so clear cut as you make out. There are a multitude of factors many of which are discussed on a variety of threads - for me one factor in making a choice was the fact that Jerez do their entire course in one place.
In terms of simulator choice, the simulator at Jerez is a Hawker 800 and not the 737's at Oxford I'm happy to concede. Now that is not a disadvantage at all - consider BA's simulator at interview is the BAC1-11 which relies on far more manual skills and has an older autopilot which forces you to demonstrate flying/handling skills that you would be expected to have acquired in training - things which you might not have covered on a 'modern' sim. Consider also that BA sends their candidates to do their JOC at Jerez and not Oxford. Although to be fair in this discussion the MCC/JOC is more about Jet Orientation and working in a Multi-Crew environment and familiarising with a company's SOP's, not so much about flying a plane.
In terms of helping graduates finding work, Thomsonfly are coming down to interview candidates for up to 6 positions this week at Jerez. Number of candidates being interviewed having been recommended by FTE = 7. Pretty good odds I would say
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Originally Posted by Boing7117
The point I'm trying to make here is that you don't come onto a forum like this and have a whinge because things aint working out for you. Surely - if there's so many folk unhappy with the way they are being treated then they should make a stand and get something done about it.
It's not difficult to approach whoever is in charge in a professional and diplomatic manner and raise the issues they feel need addressing.
By Bishop84 coming on this forum and representing his equally-disappointed colleagues shows immaturity. Personally I get the impression that Bishop84 is used to being spoonfed rather than taking the 'bull by the horns' and sorting stuff out.
This is clearly an internal OAT issue and he shouldn't be so quick to fire his comments at the rest of us (-especially those looking to go to OAT in the near future! (like me!))
I'm less concerned now about the service that OAT offer - but more worried about the type of people they're letting on the scheme!
It's not difficult to approach whoever is in charge in a professional and diplomatic manner and raise the issues they feel need addressing.
By Bishop84 coming on this forum and representing his equally-disappointed colleagues shows immaturity. Personally I get the impression that Bishop84 is used to being spoonfed rather than taking the 'bull by the horns' and sorting stuff out.
This is clearly an internal OAT issue and he shouldn't be so quick to fire his comments at the rest of us (-especially those looking to go to OAT in the near future! (like me!))
I'm less concerned now about the service that OAT offer - but more worried about the type of people they're letting on the scheme!
Neither Oxford nor any other school are doing you a favour by training you. You have paid a huge amount of money for your training, and you deserve treatment in accordance with that expenditure. If you give anyone £60,000 for anything, you should expect absolutely perfect service, and you are entitled to shout it from the rafters if you don't get it. That way, something will get done!
Originally Posted by therapist
The 'sales' team at Oxford are impressive in that they make no false promises of employment but they definitely do help graduates to find work and that marks the difference in my opinion with the other schools. Oxford seeks and achieves excellence. Cabair is not in the same league and CTC is playing at it. Jerez is good but has made little investment in its extra facilities.
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CTC playing at it?
The large FTO's of this world might have the best customer service staff in the world but at the end of the day, can they take the customer from zero hours to type rating completion? Most can't. It's a bit like buying a Mercedes without an engine.
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Keen To Look For Sample Oxford Aviation Aptitude Paper
I would very much appreciate a sample of the Oxford Aviation paper as this would greatly reduce any confusion I have over applying for the course!!! any help would be great!
cheers
Jack
cheers
Jack
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Originally Posted by Antonio Montana
...the only thing that matters is getting you face known.
At the end of the day the modular/integrated argument is pointless on a pedagogical level. Both deliver good training and I am sure the majority of schools in general do. Aptitude probably has more to do with the ability and maturity of the student or the individual instructor they end up assigned to. These are factors largely unconnected with the form or location of the training.
The issue of importance is getting that first job and for many people the peace-of-mind of increased employment likelyhood might be worth the extra tens of thousands they pay for integrated. Airlines no doubt take a mixture of candidates, regardless of dubious claims that operator XXX only takes integrated/modular, the simple requirement being that you get your face known. If an integrated course increases the chance of that then who can really argue that this isn't worth extra expense?
I am only responding to the marketing here and perhaps this is an area that some of the other FTOs should emphasise more, but OAT, Jarez and CTC seem to make it very clear that they operate referrals to airlines, have airlines come to them directly and have very close connections with carriers in the UK and beyond. They are quite upfront that this connection is especially useful if you are on an integrated course with them. That in itself (unfortunately) seems to me worth thousands of pounds. Perhaps all training organisations do this, but unless they make that clear then why should someone assume so?
Given the choice between posting your CV to join the pile on an HR managers desk, or on the other hand, having an airline come to your school looking for pilots and having your name and record presented to them, surely the later increases your chances? The extra £20,000 you may pay by going integrated at one of the "name-brand" schools might just be worth it for this. At the same time, the £20,000 you save by going modular might be pointless if you end up unemployed, or your name and face is always out of sight.
Once employed I doubt anyone really cares where the training occurred or how much it cost....but without a job, those issues become a serious concern. P.S For the record, modular would be my first choice of training IF I felt it gave me equal access to getting my face known.
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Questions about oxford Aviation
i have been to oxford avition schoool, and also cabair, but no spain or western australia, but i have to say that, oxford is sssssssssssoooooooo expensive, yeah they may provide quality training but the end result is the same,,, GET A JOB WITH AN AIRLINES
anyone wanna say somthing about this
anyone wanna say somthing about this