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Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)

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Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)

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Old 31st May 2004, 12:45
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Jonnypiano,
Im currently on the aeronautical engineering course at Bristol Uni. The course is very hard work, and a lot (if not most) of it is not particularly fun even for someone obsessed with aircraft! With regard to maths, you will need a pretty high standard- i found GCSE pretty easy, Alevel less so, but something like 10-15% of the year have an alevel in further maths at a grade A. many more at a lesser grade. I didnt do further maths (ecept for a couple of extra units) and i stuggled with some of the maths at uni. I'm not saying you need to enjoy maths, just be competent at it. I dont want to put you off is its what you want to do, but dont do it as just a way to an airline job. Many people drop out for this reason. However if you find engineering and aircraft interesting and you can handle the maths then go for it, it is a very rewarding degree, you feel you learn a lot and im sure it wont harm you r career prospects!
Sorry for such a negative response but i thought my viewpoint might be helpful.
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Old 1st Jun 2004, 09:52
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Mike!

Johnny, I didn't go to university. I did Maths and Physics at A-level, but failed physics - because I hated it! I wanted to do Maths, English and Music but my school wouldn't let me mix arts and sciences (this was the early '70s!), and I couldn't drop Maths because that was the stream I had been in since I was in the 4th year. It was a daft system, and I couldn't see the logic of it then, let alone now.

What I did do was go to work in various engineering companies and learned the hard way how things worked. I took cars and motorbikes apart in my spare time - and occasionally put them back together again. I raced karts for many years, doing my own mechanic-ing, and I did a bit of gliding. While at school, I joined the RAF CCF (a public-school version of the ATC), and, with a group of friends, started a Venture Scout troop. These two organisations gave me access to all sorts of opportunities to increase my education in more adventurous subjects.

After three years of going from job to job, in England and Germany, I joined the RAF as a pilot - with 5 O-levels, 1 A-level, no degree, and wearing glasses. I knew more than enough to understand how my aeroplane worked, at a time when the RAF practically expected its pilots to be able to rebuild an aeroplane single-handed! God knows why...

Now, as an airline pilot, I am not expected to know anywhere near as much about my aeroplane. And the guys and girls I fly with have hugely varied backgrounds - and very few of them have engineering degrees. In fact, not that many have degrees at all. So don't worry about being able to understand what the aeroplane is doing; you'll learn far more about that when you begin flying training. And don't worry about impressing an airline with your qualifications. Just concentrate on getting the best results you can in subjects that interest you, and, if you must do a degree, do it in something interesting and useful.

Scroggs
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Old 1st Jun 2004, 11:35
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Now that IS interesting, and reassuring considering you've got so far but without what I thought was absolutely necessary in order to get a job as an airline pilot.

That's funny... my Dad used to go Karting in the 70's... and took apart his Alpine A110 and rebuilt it... we've still got that, 'tis a beast of a car, yes. In fact, my Dad wanted to be a pilot, but now he's a Design Engineer.

Well, I've decided to change my Maths A-Level to English. I originally wanted to do English, but decided not to because of other subjects I wanted to take. However, I've always been good at English, the teachers have said I'm more than capable, and I'm interested in it, I like to write, I like discussion and the great thing about the subject is, there's no right or wrong answer, like with maths. So it's a lot more relaxed, in that sense. It's also just very interesting, about communication and media, I mean I've always been good at doing coursework on those aspects, but not as well on Lit... plus, English is in the same tier as Maths, so it will be a good subject to take. PLUS, English is a supporting subject for my alternative career, cinematography. Oh yeah, I heard that in the A-Level English course you learn about how air traffic control communicate... that'll be a fun few lessons .

Anyway, I have to say thanks very very much for your advice, it has really sorted me out and made me more focused (and relaxed).

-------------------
Jonathan

PS> My Dad was driving past John Lewis, Cheadle today. This Porsche Boxster was constantly up the back of him, until eventually GOING into the back of him. Oh well, most of the damage was made to the Boxster because it went under the bumper of my Dad's Merc. Turns out the driver of the Boxster was a pilot on his way to the airport! Hope he's not like that all the time... (Have I spelt Boxster right? Boxster... Boxter...)
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Old 1st Jun 2004, 12:03
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Like this?
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Old 1st Jun 2004, 19:02
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Jonnypiano

You sound like a great kid with your head screwed on. You have youth and enthusiasm on your side, and I really hope you make it as a pilot.

As someone who hasn't made it yet, but has the wisdom of how not to do things(!), my best advice to you is as follows:

1) Don't get into debt.
2) Don't get into debt.
3) Learn to manage your money i.e. don't spend more than you earn (www.fool.co.uk for more info!)

That's the important bit out of the way, now down to business...

4) Whatever you do at GCSE and A-Level, do it well. Don't p1ss about in your A-Level study periods like I did. The academic jump was not difficult for me, it was the requirement to be responsible and manage my own time that I struggled with. Do a course you're interested in. If you want to be a pilot I'd recommend Maths, Physics and possibly a foreign language (so those cheeky European controllers can't catch you off guard!!)

5) If you're going to do a degree, it might be as well to do something business, finance or law related. You don't need a degree to be a pilot, but at least if that fails, you can still own the airline(!) and in all seriousness, anyone(?!) can fly a plane but airlines are looking for senior managers in their flight crew - it's a business after all - and a cut-throat one at that.

6) Don't do engineering - or anything else - just because you think it might help you become a pilot. Do it because you want to do it. It's important to stay focused. Either you want to be a pilot or you want to be an engineer/ designer/ whatever....

7) Get some experience. Get down your local flying club and help out at weekends or join the ATC or University Flying Squadron. Don't expect to be paid or to get any flying necessarily, but be enthusiastic to learn. If you can get some flying in, great (e.g. as a birthday present).

8) Read flying books - e.g. Trevor Thom's Air Pilots Manuals 1-7. Borrow these if you can. There may be some older editions kicking around at local flying clubs. It's good background for when you start your flying lessons.

9) Apply for reputable sponsorships such as CTC as early as possible. You may have to re-apply several years in a row, and age 26 comes round quick!

10) Learn to take rejection and move on!

11) Failing all of the above, join the RAF. It's got to be the best, most reliable and most rewarding route to a flying career out there.

Can't think of anything else to add, except to wish you all the best!
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Old 1st Jun 2004, 21:56
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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JP,

Seeing as you appear to be a member of the elite 0.1% of PPrune posters capable of stringing a grammatically correct sentence together, English sounds like a fine choice of A-level to me. You even spelt Boxster correctly.

Good luck with your GCSE's, A-levels, degree, and after that little lot, career. And do have fun in the meantime too!

P.S. I do not claim to be a part of that elite 0.1%.
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Old 3rd Jun 2004, 11:57
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks a lot for your replies.

"5) If you're going to do a degree, it might be as well to do something business, finance or law related."

Hmm... I see where you're coming from but the problem there is, if I didn't get a job as a pilot, I'd end up with a job I'd be deadly bored with when I could have been in L.A. making music videos for Muse

"6) Don't do engineering"

I agree, I'm no longer going to do that, no way.

"7) Get some experience."

Yeah, that's something I need to do, however I wouldn't want to join ATC because it's very RAF themed, and to be honest I'm not into the whole scouts thing. I'll have to see about that, though.

"8) Read flying books"

Yes, I've planned on getting some books. I'll try to sign up to an Airliner magazine as well eventually, but not too sure whether to sign up yet as they seem very business-related.

"9) Apply for reputable sponsorships such as CTC as early as possible. You may have to re-apply several years in a row, and age 26 comes round quick!"

Life is too short.

"11) Failing all of the above, join the RAF.

Now I thought about this, but I read on the website that you are destined to something like 16 years service with them.

"Can't think of anything else to add, except to wish you all the best!"

Thank you!

----------

"English sounds like a fine choice of A-level to me. You even spelt Boxster correctly."

Haha, yes, I think I'll do alright in English.

"Good luck with your GCSE's"

Thanks, I'm going to need it to be honest, they are absolute hell...

-------------------

"I got a sponsorship having studied the following subjects:

A level: English, Business Studies, Law

Degree: English

I also got plain old C grades for maths and the sciences at GCSE."

That's good to know, considering I'm taking English A-Level and that you even got Sponsorship with C Grades. I was always told to try and maintain As and Bs, because they look good on a CV - which is true, but at least there's some hope if I do bugger up maths, which I seem to be doing at the moment.
However, you took Business Studies and Law... both subjects that seem to have been batted around this post as subjects to study, especially Business Studies. Well I haven't done Business Studies GCSE, so I don't know whether that would affect it, and I suppose I don't HAVE to do Business Studies... I hope that English, Computing, Physics and Music Tech would suffice.

Well, it all seems good, and looks as if it's just a case of getting good grades and sponsorship, and remaining focused.

Thanks a lot for the advice, it's been a considerable help, it's changed my A-Level and University plans!
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Old 3rd Jun 2004, 20:56
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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I've had a re-think.

Forget the flying and go make music videos!

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Old 3rd Jun 2004, 23:44
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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LOL!

D'you think?
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Old 4th Jun 2004, 09:58
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Hi,

I did Maths, Economics, History and Geography. I got As in all but Maths, in which I got a B. I wasn't best pleased about it but I knew deep down that I deserved it because I wasn't good enough and I didn't enjoy the subject. However, I worked hard and even though you might not want to do Maths (like I didn't want to), it really does pay off and as does the hard work. Anyway, a B is still a good grade (its the only way I can live with myself ) Having said that, English is also a very good subject to take.

I'll end with the same advice that was given to me:

Keep your subjects varied yet enjoyable, as they will enable you to choose many university courses and future careers. Think long-term (as you already are) and know that hard work always pays, even if you don't enjoy it at the time.
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Old 4th Jun 2004, 13:40
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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I did what I was best at - Maths, Physics, German and History (AAAB), then went on to do an Economics and Politics (2:1) degree. Although I am not a good example, since I am not yet working in aviation, I did pass the partial OASC for the flying scholarship, and got into the UAS while at uni, so I guess I was doing something right - i.e. getting good grades and being a rounded person.

If sponsorships come up - I've maintained interest in aviation and kept up different activities to be well-rounded enough. If they don't, and being 23 time is running out for them given the market conditions, I'll qualify as an chartered accountant next year and give my all to save for an ATPL; or go the CTC route.

I didn't even consider engineering as it's not for me: I doubt that will hinder me unless a specific requirement (which it isn't), but hopefully the business experience will be a plus. What I consider favours me more are the activities I have done, such as joining the RAeS, UAS, sport etc. Ultimately in the absence of sponsorships these won't matter if the job depends upon having an ATPL and type rating, but I've created the means for myself to get there and the backup career isn't bad either thank you very much!

Do what interests you academically, focus on what you need to do to get there, but don't lose sight of the fact that you need to somehow pay for aviation if sponsors don't materialise, and ensure that if you do something else first, you might consider doing it instead of flying as medical don't always go your way. Backup plans always help and can fund the passion!
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Old 7th Jun 2004, 10:58
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Good point, I'd never really thought that a backup career could also provide the money

Thanks for the advice, it's been a lot of help.

Jonathan
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Old 8th Jun 2004, 20:56
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Having a Degree

For any of you who may have a university degree, do you find that it helped you in any way to become a pilot? I am going to school in the fall, and am starting to wonder how much it will really help in the long run.
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Old 8th Jun 2004, 21:50
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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See you're in Uxbridge. Are you coming to Brunel?

There have been quite a few topics on this over the years and a search would prob yield some very useful answers, although you might find them in the Ground Studies forum as opposed to Questions.

General impression seems to be that it is very much down to mixed individual opinion as to whether it will help or not.

All the best and good luck with whatever you're doing, and if it's at Brunel don't hesitate to drop me a PM.

Your friendly african dude!

Andy
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Old 8th Jun 2004, 22:58
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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JC, don't waste your time on university if you want to become a pilot!

Congratulations on starting school, it is very important if you want to be a pilot; work hard, learn to tie your own shoe laces, make sure you do well enough in junior to get into a decent High School, and get enough maths and english to convince airlines you can speak, spell and count. Then join the queues for sponsorship or start robbing banks for training fees.

By the time you are old enough for university the situation will have changed anyway...

Good luck
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Old 8th Jun 2004, 23:03
  #156 (permalink)  
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A marketable degree (medical, engineering, business disciplines, etc) may have a minor impact on your competitive edge in pilot recruitment ... but does have a big impact if you lose your licence on a medical, lose your job for whatever reason ... and would like to put food on the table ....
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Old 9th Jun 2004, 14:09
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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I'm with the boy John.

Actually, John, don't you think JC's spelling and grammar are of a rather high standard for someone starting school in the...I assume he means autumn?
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Old 9th Jun 2004, 14:15
  #158 (permalink)  


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Time in university will give you a very good grounding in life, both academically and personally. If the opportunity exists then look at joining the University Air Squadron. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, but if you like it and they like you then you could potentially rack up to 90 hours of flying at the Queen's expense.

As John Tullamarine says flying is not the most secure areas of employment so having something to fall back on should you fail a medical/sim trip/tea and biscuits with the CP is always handy.
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Old 9th Jun 2004, 14:31
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aeronautical

i think

having A Aeronautical Engineering Degree Definately Will Hold An Edge............


as a pilot... u'll also learn some basic aeronautics principles....


and having this degree.... i think you'll understand more about how the plane works... the aerodynamics...

blablabla...

juse my 2cents
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Old 9th Jun 2004, 16:22
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I don't think having an engineering degree will give you any advantage when doing the ATPL exams. I've got a masters degree in aeronautical engineering, and have sat the 14 ATPL exams, and I have to say only a tiny amount of what I learnt at uni I was able to apply to the exams.

If you do decide to go to uni, I would say do a subject you enjoy, as well something that is marketable as john_tullamarine says. Remember there's a lot more to uni than just learning. It's very useful for developing your character and gives you the chance to get involved with lots of useful activities such as the UAS.

I very much doubt that having an engineering degree will be looked on more favourably by recruiters than any other (much as I'd like it to be ). I also don't think having gone to uni will have a direct bearing on whether you're called for interview.

Good luck with your decision.

PW
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