Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)
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go for it...
I recommend getting a degree of some sort. I started university at the tender age of 22 after piss-farting about for 4 years after school, always with the intention of flying in the back of my mind. So, after 4 years at uni I had a B.Sc(Physics), and six months after that was into the flying full-time at the slightly less than tender age of 26!
Had a ball at uni, learned to live of $150/week and got a good degree too
Got my Multi- IR flight test in a month and haven't looked back.
Had a ball at uni, learned to live of $150/week and got a good degree too
Got my Multi- IR flight test in a month and haven't looked back.
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get a degree! for sure
Hey,
I'll be finishing high school this year, and I think I'll pursue a degree in something that I enjoy, before I pusue flight training.
I plan to apply for a modern langauges program because other than aviation, my other passion is langauges. You gotta have something to fall back on.
Anyone have any advice for me?
Any pilots out there have a languages degree of some sort?
-Thanks, Muchas Gracias, Merci Beaucoup!
I'll be finishing high school this year, and I think I'll pursue a degree in something that I enjoy, before I pusue flight training.
I plan to apply for a modern langauges program because other than aviation, my other passion is langauges. You gotta have something to fall back on.
Anyone have any advice for me?
Any pilots out there have a languages degree of some sort?
-Thanks, Muchas Gracias, Merci Beaucoup!
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I read in one post that an fATPL is equivalent to a degree. I don't agree with this. A degree takes at least 3-4 years to complete where as the ATPL exams can be passed in 6 months.
Also once you have a degree its yours for life, a license can be pulled from you at any time for any reason.
Also once you have a degree its yours for life, a license can be pulled from you at any time for any reason.
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Theres not really a right or wrong answer, you've just got to make your decision and see how things turn out. Things did'nt go too well for me so I am now going back to Uni to get a degree.
When I was 21 I started a degree in Physics but when the funding became available I quit that to go and do my long dreamed about flight training (fATPL) at Oxford. Unfortunately myself and a couple of others, in a declining pilot market, never got a nice airline job so we were left with seeking an FI job (if you could afford to get certified) or like me had to go and get any job I could find because I'd spent all the family silver on flight training and the banks wanted paying back and the bills needed to be paid.
Now with just A-levels you cant get a very well paid job infact the highest paid job I could find was in a warehouse, at this point I'd wished I'd finished my degree at least I would have been on £20k to pay for continued flying. I saved my money in the hope of becoming a flight instructor in the US but 9/11 put an end to that (also you cant get a student visa in the US if you already hold a CPL
)
So with the pilot market looking bleak for the next few years I have taken the advice of one airline recruitment chap who I met at an airline interview (it was Aer Lingus or Britannia I cant remember which) I asked what I should do now you've just turned me down and the job market in decline (and this was pre 9/11), he said "think about getting a degree". I asked what kind of subject, he said "any subject, just get a degree it'll stand you in good stead later on" and thats a true story. I met a guy in the US who went from the right seat of an A320 one week to a B&Q type hardware store the next due to 9/11, he had no back up qualifications but still had a wife, 3 kids and a huge mortgage to maintain, scary.
I'm now 26 and going back to uni to do a 3-4 year Aerospace Engineering degree, I've no idea whether it will help me with my flying career but I know it will help me if I'm ever on the totally pennyless pilot job que again. Its like that other chap said above, no-one can take a degree off you but you can lose your licence and if the pilot market ever bombs again, maybe even in 20 years time, you'll have that back up and believe me 3-4 years literally does fly by. And if flying doesnt work out you've got a possible back up career which can give you an equally easy life (my brother got a degree in chemistry and now he's a bio-chemist working for NASA on $80,000 a year living in California
) its not flying but he doesnt hate it.
I just thought I would give you a look at how things can go wrong and how it is always good to have options even if you never have to use them. If a bank will offer you money now they'll certainly offer you money if you've got a degree and are a bit older and hopefully the job market will be recovering. At the end of the day follow your heart, if things work out, great, if they dont then like me its never too late to go back and take things as you need them.
As a last point, once you hit 25 your considered a mature student and you get all your tution fees paid for.
When I was 21 I started a degree in Physics but when the funding became available I quit that to go and do my long dreamed about flight training (fATPL) at Oxford. Unfortunately myself and a couple of others, in a declining pilot market, never got a nice airline job so we were left with seeking an FI job (if you could afford to get certified) or like me had to go and get any job I could find because I'd spent all the family silver on flight training and the banks wanted paying back and the bills needed to be paid.
Now with just A-levels you cant get a very well paid job infact the highest paid job I could find was in a warehouse, at this point I'd wished I'd finished my degree at least I would have been on £20k to pay for continued flying. I saved my money in the hope of becoming a flight instructor in the US but 9/11 put an end to that (also you cant get a student visa in the US if you already hold a CPL
) So with the pilot market looking bleak for the next few years I have taken the advice of one airline recruitment chap who I met at an airline interview (it was Aer Lingus or Britannia I cant remember which) I asked what I should do now you've just turned me down and the job market in decline (and this was pre 9/11), he said "think about getting a degree". I asked what kind of subject, he said "any subject, just get a degree it'll stand you in good stead later on" and thats a true story. I met a guy in the US who went from the right seat of an A320 one week to a B&Q type hardware store the next due to 9/11, he had no back up qualifications but still had a wife, 3 kids and a huge mortgage to maintain, scary.
I'm now 26 and going back to uni to do a 3-4 year Aerospace Engineering degree, I've no idea whether it will help me with my flying career but I know it will help me if I'm ever on the totally pennyless pilot job que again. Its like that other chap said above, no-one can take a degree off you but you can lose your licence and if the pilot market ever bombs again, maybe even in 20 years time, you'll have that back up and believe me 3-4 years literally does fly by. And if flying doesnt work out you've got a possible back up career which can give you an equally easy life (my brother got a degree in chemistry and now he's a bio-chemist working for NASA on $80,000 a year living in California
) its not flying but he doesnt hate it.I just thought I would give you a look at how things can go wrong and how it is always good to have options even if you never have to use them. If a bank will offer you money now they'll certainly offer you money if you've got a degree and are a bit older and hopefully the job market will be recovering. At the end of the day follow your heart, if things work out, great, if they dont then like me its never too late to go back and take things as you need them.
As a last point, once you hit 25 your considered a mature student and you get all your tution fees paid for.
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I think that ultimately a degree is important, once your flying career is over you need some sort of qualification to continue with. Now your flying career could be 1 year or 40 years it all depends on luck and the job environment.
I left school at 18 to pursue a flying career it has taken me seven years including 2 years of instructing but now I am 25 and in my first airline job. During my time as an instructor I have been doing a degree with the open university, I am 1/3 complete with 2 or 3 years to go. This is an option as well, to get a degree you don't have to go full time for 3 years. There are always alternatives, if like me the flying just won't wait then this could be a way to go.
At the end of the day it is your choice, I know many who are sucessful airlines pilots with or without degrees. I found that after my brain was kicked into gear with the ATPL ground school that the OU course work was a fairly easy going continuation of this.
I left school at 18 to pursue a flying career it has taken me seven years including 2 years of instructing but now I am 25 and in my first airline job. During my time as an instructor I have been doing a degree with the open university, I am 1/3 complete with 2 or 3 years to go. This is an option as well, to get a degree you don't have to go full time for 3 years. There are always alternatives, if like me the flying just won't wait then this could be a way to go.
At the end of the day it is your choice, I know many who are sucessful airlines pilots with or without degrees. I found that after my brain was kicked into gear with the ATPL ground school that the OU course work was a fairly easy going continuation of this.
Before "Ze Germans" get here
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McCroskey
Wow, thats a sad story but I think also an important reminder to those who set out to become Commercial Pilots. While I wouldn't want to put anyone off its important to be aware of the risks. Like I said before there are people who won't make it for one reason or another and before you sign your life away make sure your really prepared to take the risk.
Cements my position that a degree is a great thing to have if time is on your side. I'm learning that aviation is very unstable. It must be a great reassurance to have something to fall back on if it all goes wrong.
Cements my position that a degree is a great thing to have if time is on your side. I'm learning that aviation is very unstable. It must be a great reassurance to have something to fall back on if it all goes wrong.
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Degrees
You don'y need a degree to fly, and I've never been asked , or heard of anyone being asked, if they have one at any airline interview. Neither have I heard of anyone being given a pilots job because of a degree. In fact, not sure of statistics, but in my experience (nearly 20 years airline pilot) I reckon i's only a small minority of pilots who have a degree in anything. So if you want to fly, just get on with it...but you might want something to fall back on in later years.
Interesting replies.
I vote degree for the reasons already mentioned. I think a degree in anything is becomming the std education these days (esp. in Oz), whereas 20 yrs ago a degree may have been more of a novelty
for the bright fellows.
I have just completed a BSc (in met) fm Melb and am sitting CPL with the intention that ATPL will be complete by the end of this year. I am 23. (anybody wanna hire me?) If your full-on about it, and in hindesight
, it is not the most difficult pursuit to gain ATPL (at least say subjects) by the end of a three yr degree.
I am saying that it is possible if you have the funds, and the dedication
. A science degree (where you can usually demand to do freestyle subjects like meteorolgy, navigation [Surveying dept.] etc.) typically only asks for 20 or so contact hrs weekly + "20" hrs home study! By the end of it, you will be familiar with and know your angles... understand icing problems, earn some respect, establish career contacts and friends... and have that 'experience' 
Fm personal exp. the degree doesn't take THAT long and is a fun ride. You can be a nerd and treat it as a full time job (9-17) and probably have your ATPL (subjects) complete by the end of it.
T.Thom likened the ATPL to 3rd yr Uni.
Safe Flying.
I vote degree for the reasons already mentioned. I think a degree in anything is becomming the std education these days (esp. in Oz), whereas 20 yrs ago a degree may have been more of a novelty
for the bright fellows.I have just completed a BSc (in met) fm Melb and am sitting CPL with the intention that ATPL will be complete by the end of this year. I am 23. (anybody wanna hire me?) If your full-on about it, and in hindesight
, it is not the most difficult pursuit to gain ATPL (at least say subjects) by the end of a three yr degree. I am saying that it is possible if you have the funds, and the dedication
. A science degree (where you can usually demand to do freestyle subjects like meteorolgy, navigation [Surveying dept.] etc.) typically only asks for 20 or so contact hrs weekly + "20" hrs home study! By the end of it, you will be familiar with and know your angles... understand icing problems, earn some respect, establish career contacts and friends... and have that 'experience' Fm personal exp. the degree doesn't take THAT long and is a fun ride. You can be a nerd and treat it as a full time job (9-17) and probably have your ATPL (subjects) complete by the end of it.
T.Thom likened the ATPL to 3rd yr Uni.
Safe Flying.
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My two cents,
The degree issue seems to be a bit of a have versus have-not issue, and there is a lot of emotion involved.
At the end of the day people see what they want to see with regards to the degree.
Frankly, if I'm competing for a spot with a guy with the same time, I wouldn't want to be the one without the degree.
The degree issue seems to be a bit of a have versus have-not issue, and there is a lot of emotion involved.
At the end of the day people see what they want to see with regards to the degree.
Frankly, if I'm competing for a spot with a guy with the same time, I wouldn't want to be the one without the degree.
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What A Levels and Degree?!
Hi guys,
Are A-Levels absolutley a must for sponsership these days?..its coming up to the time where i need to choose and ive been speaking to some of the people taking A-Levels and they say that if they had the choice they would not have taken them...any info would be great!!
Cheers
Are A-Levels absolutley a must for sponsership these days?..its coming up to the time where i need to choose and ive been speaking to some of the people taking A-Levels and they say that if they had the choice they would not have taken them...any info would be great!!
Cheers
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Hey,
If you do a search you'll find LOADS of info on this which is really helpfull.
I'm 18 and I have 4 weeks left doing A-Level, and from my experience when I asked the same question I found this:
A-Levels aren't important to get an airline job. However, if you wanna be sposored by say BA for example, their criteria ask for two or more A Levels. So if you're looking to get sponsored then its a good idea to have the qualifications.
Also, from common sense I would take A Levels. There's thousands of people who want the same job as you, so there's a high chance of not getting that job. In which case you'll need qualifications to fall back on, think of them as a safety net.
Having A Levels will make you stand out from the other CVs aswell, and A levels will allow you to move onto university which again makes you stand out from the crowd and it gives u a more secure safety net.
But all in all, DO A LEVELS THAT YOU ENJOY - Dont do maths because BA wants maths etc.
You'll find A levels hell if you're not enjoying the subjects, I did physics for three weeks!!
Enjoy, good luck and I hope this helps!
Ian
If you do a search you'll find LOADS of info on this which is really helpfull.
I'm 18 and I have 4 weeks left doing A-Level, and from my experience when I asked the same question I found this:
A-Levels aren't important to get an airline job. However, if you wanna be sposored by say BA for example, their criteria ask for two or more A Levels. So if you're looking to get sponsored then its a good idea to have the qualifications.
Also, from common sense I would take A Levels. There's thousands of people who want the same job as you, so there's a high chance of not getting that job. In which case you'll need qualifications to fall back on, think of them as a safety net.
Having A Levels will make you stand out from the other CVs aswell, and A levels will allow you to move onto university which again makes you stand out from the crowd and it gives u a more secure safety net.
But all in all, DO A LEVELS THAT YOU ENJOY - Dont do maths because BA wants maths etc.
You'll find A levels hell if you're not enjoying the subjects, I did physics for three weeks!!
Enjoy, good luck and I hope this helps!
Ian
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Similar story for me, got 2 a-levels at grade c physics and Biology. Do a levels that you enjoy, but make them academic subjects.... not media studies or art etc. A subject that shows logical thinking is always good, and nowadays the emphasis on management skills seems to be important in this industry so see if there is someway that you might be able to develop these.
I gained my PPL 2 years ago, and am slowly building my hours as the cash permits, i've spoken to a training captain at BA and he told me that the credentials that i have are what they are looking for (when they actually offer sponsorship!!) the PPL is a good bonus. If i can do it, anyone can.
If you have never flown before see if you can get a trial lesson at your local field, and tell the instructor what you want to do in the future..... i've gained some of the best advice off of these guys as they themselves ultimately want to get an airline job. Join the ATC, free flying!!
Go for it, keep your eyes open, look in flight international and on pprune then you should keep ahead of the game!! Get the qualifications and aim to go to uni you never know!!!!
Chris
I gained my PPL 2 years ago, and am slowly building my hours as the cash permits, i've spoken to a training captain at BA and he told me that the credentials that i have are what they are looking for (when they actually offer sponsorship!!) the PPL is a good bonus. If i can do it, anyone can.
If you have never flown before see if you can get a trial lesson at your local field, and tell the instructor what you want to do in the future..... i've gained some of the best advice off of these guys as they themselves ultimately want to get an airline job. Join the ATC, free flying!!
Go for it, keep your eyes open, look in flight international and on pprune then you should keep ahead of the game!! Get the qualifications and aim to go to uni you never know!!!!
Chris
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It would be incredibly foolish not take take full of advantage of all the free education offered to you. If you don't do a-levels you WILL regret it in a few years. Personally I think universirty is a must as well if you want to get ahead these days.
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A Degree Though?
Okay, A-Levels I'd say everyone needs, but I've got a mate who wants to find sponsorship somewhere but he got a Third Class degree. I've told him to apply but my thoughts were that people like BA want young applicants who are very accademic.
Am I wrong?
Am I wrong?
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A-levels are not everything
I have to say that A-levels are not everything and that a good degree has more weight when employers select candidates. I have 1 A-level at grade D (which is not great), but a 2:1 degree. A-levels are very different, and if you pick the wrong ones then you are going to struggle. If A-levels are not for you then i would pick an alternative course that Universities accept.
I have applied to the CTC McAlpine & BA cadet schemes and have passed the application stage on both.
I have applied to the CTC McAlpine & BA cadet schemes and have passed the application stage on both.
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Hello everyone,
First post so I'll try to be good
I am sorry for the mistakes I could make, I'm still learning English.
I am in this situation as I am finishing High School.
I have been told by a number of involved people that there is going to be a flourish in aviation business by 2006.
I make a bet : if I begin my training now, maybe I could get my licenses just on time to "catch the train". Obtaining a degree would force me to wait till next cycle, for only a few advantages. After ten years working as a pilot, what would my degree be worth ?
But risky it is.
On the other hand, a degree is not expensive in my country. I would "lose" a couple of years in aviation, but the benefit of it in case of medical problems would be great (-so do I hope, but no certainty)
I don't know what's the best answer.
First post so I'll try to be good
I am sorry for the mistakes I could make, I'm still learning English.
I am in this situation as I am finishing High School.
I have been told by a number of involved people that there is going to be a flourish in aviation business by 2006.
I make a bet : if I begin my training now, maybe I could get my licenses just on time to "catch the train". Obtaining a degree would force me to wait till next cycle, for only a few advantages. After ten years working as a pilot, what would my degree be worth ?
But risky it is.
On the other hand, a degree is not expensive in my country. I would "lose" a couple of years in aviation, but the benefit of it in case of medical problems would be great (-so do I hope, but no certainty)
I don't know what's the best answer.
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Hi
I saw your thread and ive gotta say i just had to add my bit in. I can remember early last year putting threads on like yours and the response i got was that a levels are not essential but instead of going for a levels which you think airliens will want such as Maths, Physiscs etc... go for subjects you are good at. I did not do that, i chose 4 subjects which i thought would be just what the airliens wanted and am now, at the end of my first year struggling and dropping all 4 at the end of the year to go for an aerosapce engineering course which i will njoy. My mistake was choosing 4 subjects i did not enjoy and was not particularly good at. I left the Maths course after 1 week and foolishly stayed in the Physics course after persuasion from my teacher, saying that i am not bad at physics but the college teacher is...well lets say not the best in the world.
I thought id add my bit just letting you know of my experiences because id hate to see someone make the same mistake. I just wish i had taken the advice given to me last year, but i didnt and i will never make the same mistake again so at least ive learned one valuable lesson in life.
Ah well, thats enough of me talking, good luck for the future, i wish you the best of luck at a-levles and in your future career.
Cheers Mate
MM
I saw your thread and ive gotta say i just had to add my bit in. I can remember early last year putting threads on like yours and the response i got was that a levels are not essential but instead of going for a levels which you think airliens will want such as Maths, Physiscs etc... go for subjects you are good at. I did not do that, i chose 4 subjects which i thought would be just what the airliens wanted and am now, at the end of my first year struggling and dropping all 4 at the end of the year to go for an aerosapce engineering course which i will njoy. My mistake was choosing 4 subjects i did not enjoy and was not particularly good at. I left the Maths course after 1 week and foolishly stayed in the Physics course after persuasion from my teacher, saying that i am not bad at physics but the college teacher is...well lets say not the best in the world.
I thought id add my bit just letting you know of my experiences because id hate to see someone make the same mistake. I just wish i had taken the advice given to me last year, but i didnt and i will never make the same mistake again so at least ive learned one valuable lesson in life.
Ah well, thats enough of me talking, good luck for the future, i wish you the best of luck at a-levles and in your future career.
Cheers Mate
MM
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To do or not to do? DO IT
Its been said a few times above and it is ever so true.
Once you have a degree you have it for life. Your medical could go any day. Do you really want to have to wait 3-4yrs to compete with the 22 yr old grads when you had already been working for a few years.
Further, if you have a degree banks like to lend you cash. Further yet, what if you can't get a job in aviation straight away? If you have a degree, whilst you are eeking a living and waiting to get on the ladder you can earn a proper salary (with the right degree)
Yes, it will have little use in ten years but it will always show that more rounded person who has gone that little bit further whatever your age. And like veryone says if the CVs are similar another tick won't harm.
A degree is essential in this day and age it's not just a paper academic qual its a life qual.
I graduated in Microelectronics Systems and Artificial Intelligence in 1994 having had the best and worst 4 years of my life. I met people from all walks of life, travelled the world, met loves, lost loves made friends, lost friends but the experiences I had were those that can never be repeated.
You are only 18-22 once (well any age once but it all gets quite serious after that) and you musn't waste the chance to go. You have nothing to loose. The industry is in a state, go get a degree and do your ATPL exams in your spare time ready to go straight into flying trg when you grad.
GO please for pities sake GO.
VT
Once you have a degree you have it for life. Your medical could go any day. Do you really want to have to wait 3-4yrs to compete with the 22 yr old grads when you had already been working for a few years.
Further, if you have a degree banks like to lend you cash. Further yet, what if you can't get a job in aviation straight away? If you have a degree, whilst you are eeking a living and waiting to get on the ladder you can earn a proper salary (with the right degree)
Yes, it will have little use in ten years but it will always show that more rounded person who has gone that little bit further whatever your age. And like veryone says if the CVs are similar another tick won't harm.
A degree is essential in this day and age it's not just a paper academic qual its a life qual.
I graduated in Microelectronics Systems and Artificial Intelligence in 1994 having had the best and worst 4 years of my life. I met people from all walks of life, travelled the world, met loves, lost loves made friends, lost friends but the experiences I had were those that can never be repeated.
You are only 18-22 once (well any age once but it all gets quite serious after that) and you musn't waste the chance to go. You have nothing to loose. The industry is in a state, go get a degree and do your ATPL exams in your spare time ready to go straight into flying trg when you grad.
GO please for pities sake GO.
VT