Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)

[Andy_20]

BTEC/NVQ's vs A Levels

I currently hold a BTEC and NVQ L3 in Aerospace engineering 'equivalent' to 4 A levels, i was wondering if anyone knew if these were accepted at the same standard as A levels? Any information much appreciated

[scott_cardiff]

Go to Uni!

I totally agree with you all who are saying to go to University and study for a degree. I am now in my final year of 6 form, studying A level Geography, ICT and Business Studies, with also an 'AS' level in Physics. I originally started out with also Maths but dropped this due to me finding the course affecting my study time on other subjects. Moral of the story I think, is that your much better off with excellent grades in subjects you enjoy, than crap grades in ones you've taken, just for the sake of someone telling you that you need them to be a pilot.
I am now applying to University to study 'BSc Physical Geography' as I believe that by going to University, I will learn how to become more independent, motivate myself, and to make my own decisions. I think that this will be of great help to me when I do eventually apply to a flying school or an airline. Also, by going to University I will be able to enjoy a great experience of being a student and meet a large variety of new friends. Finally, the main aspect will be that I will always have something to fall back on, and a degree is the bestest thing!!!
I am glad to see that I am not the only one who is in this position, but at the moment, I believe that University is the best option!!

[Lucifer]

The trouble with people who say that university is a waste of time and that you should get on with flying, is, that many of those same individuals have no idea what university is about.

Take advice from this graduate - it is well worth it, and do what you are good at, and not aeronautical engineering because you have a fixation on flying.

If university is above your ability, go and work you butt off for a while and become equally independent.

Whatever you do, don't pansy about and dither, and do not become so fixated on flying that you don't think about your decision logically...you need to work somehow while waiting for a flying job!

Hi, I've just left a Music Degree due to similar circumstances as Sicky and since I'm 22 I need to make some decisions fast!

Dan - reality check - stop wasting your time and make up your mind NOW. Your decision-making ability is crucial in the flight deck, and right now I would not dream of recruiting you.

I currently hold a BTEC and NVQ L3 in Aerospace engineering 'equivalent' to 4 A levels, i was wondering if anyone knew if these were accepted at the same standard as A levels? Any information much appreciated

You are going to have to state upfront to employers on the CV the number of UCAS points that is and how long it took you to be equally comparable to A-Levels. Everyone knows that an A-Level is a 2-year course (inc the AS level), and that most people take 3-4. I have no idea if you took (a) other courses or (b) if it took you 5 years or one. I would say "xxx UCAS points - BTEC xxxxx etc" then "(equivalent to 2 A-Levels)" or whatever.

having had a dream to fly since 5, and knowing that uni is a must - for experience and the qualification after, i tried to combine the two. check out BCUC (Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College - High Wycombe) providing i get the grade this summer - could be going onto Aviation Technology With Commercial Pilot Training - training for 3 years towards frozen ATPL along-side the degree.

Just go to Jerez instead and save your money, or do another degree first. Professional qualifications should not masquerade as a degree, and the chap who set this up stalled on the other thread when questioned as to whether BA asked him to set it up or just provided him with some helpful advice (while not committing at all to recruit from it).

At least Jerez, OATS or CTC are a known quantity.

I'm about ot start sixth form and i want to go to university. I was just wondering if there is a degree that will help my chances of becoming a commercial airline pilot.

Underwater basket weaving - whatever makes you happy so long as you can justify it. You won't pass an engineering course if you have no interest in it.

[Groundloop]

Originally Posted by Lucifer

Professional qualifications should not masquerade as a degree...

Bit if a strange comment here as a degree is often part of a professional qualification ie chartered engineer!

[Lucifer]

Not at all - you are not professionally chartered until you have been in work and followed an approved route through IMechE or RAeS. You are academically qualified as an engineer at graduation.

[1_kiwi_1]

going to uni before flying a waste of money??

I really want to become a pilot, however I would really like to have that experience of going to a world class univeristy. Hopefully I should have AAA for my A levels and have a diploma in piano teaching so with a bit of luck I might get into oxford or cambridge. Is it worth spending the money on doing a 3 yr degree in economics and management at say oxford then go to a training institution and have to pay another 50k+?? Also would having a degree in economics and management help me get into a management position with the airlines? Ive heard that many head pilots for their airline have a degree. Also are there any other suitable degrees which would help with a career as a pilot?

Thanks for any help you can give me, I really appreciate it

[cavortingcheetah]

The pilot employment market is a very fickle YoYo. It is virtually impossible to predict a curve three or five years down the line. This means that career planning in aviation is very difficult.
I imagine that you cannot make a really lucrative living as a piano teacher? What opportunities would there be in three years' time with a good degree from Oxford or Cambridge in Economics and Management? If one were able to find a good job with such a qualification it seems to me that it would be quite feasible to study for the professional pilot qualifications as a hobby, whilst working and keeping a careful eye on aviation trends, with a view to a career change in, say, five years' time.
Management in aviation do not seem to like pilots too much. I am not at all sure that an economics degree would necessarily endear one to a selection board. It might have quite the reverse effect of sending the selectors running for the hills. If one had a degree in aeronautical design, for instance, would that benefit a pilot in his career path? I somehow doubt it.
I would love the chance to walk the hallowed halls of Academe to emerge with a good First, enter a forward thinking company, fly for fun and change careers when the opportunity looked bright and I could afford to turn my hobby into a career path. All this, at the same time as tinkling the ivories to a little Mozart or whoever takes your fancy. What a very satisfactory prospect!
Retirement comes early to pilots, whether enforced by the company or on medical grounds. It's always worth bearing in mind what one might like to do if, hypothetically speaking, one were grounded in one's thirties, just after the arrival of the first set of twins! Damned pessimistic, I know, but there it really is!

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by 1_kiwi_1

I might get into oxford or cambridge. Is it worth spending the money on doing a 3 yr degree in economics and management at say oxford then go to a training institution and have to pay another 50k+??

Hell yes, if you turn down that opportunity, you must be mad. Never do a degree for the sake of it sounding like "aviation" e.g. becoming an aero engineer if your heart is not in it - do it for the right reasons.

With an Oxbridge degree behind you, you can do anything, and you won't regret having passed up the opportunity later in life.

[1_kiwi_1]

Thanks for the positive advice, looks like I'll be applying to the universities!

[captain Binns]

Career advice please.

Hi Everyone,
I am new to pprune and find myself in quite a similar position to many others. I have wanted to be a pilot scince I was 4 years old, 13 years on and I have done 25 hours towards the PPL, which has been fantastic. I have spent hours researching and sending letters off to airlines about career adive, but seem to get a very mixed response back. I am studying for my A levels and am expected straight A's in Maths Physics, Geog and Further maths. My school are pressing me to go to one of the top uni's, however I want what is best for the flying. I am aware that sponsorship is difficult and sometimes not an option. The question is would getting a degree like ones offered at London and Buckinghamshire, which are supposed to be 'Pilot studies' incorporating an ATPL be better than something such as meteorology (A subject I enjoy at school)?

I realise the 'go to uni or don't go to uni' option has been discussed untill everyone is bored of it. I don't have the money to go on an integrated course so getting a degree and a job at the same time seems to be the best way to start, just which one and where!!.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Kind Regards.
Andrew

[captwannabe]

I'm in a very similar situation to you. I have decided to pursue a career as a pilot rather than go to university. If you want to go to university, do a course that you would enjoy. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what the subject is when you're looking for a job as a pilot. Don't feel pressured into going to university by your teachers either. To quote an old teacher of mine, "You should be going to top universities, U.C.C, Trinity, Ivy League colleges, Cambridge, etc. Forget about anything else".

[airpilot]

Do what ever you wish with your education it wont do any harm. I dont have a degree or A levels but still I made it as a pilot.

Whats really needed in a pilot is some good smooth handling skills,good team work,good situational awarness and a willingness to learn. Everything else will come with experience and time. Its all very well having these fantastic degrees and A levels but can you fly the ******* plane.

Instructional flying will get you the handling skills and SA and the team work will come with practice.

All the best

[captain Binns]

Thanks for the information. I should be o.k with the team working ability as have captained football and cricket teams, after 25 hours of the PPL I am very confident at handling the aircraft and have done 3 hours solo and am well into navigation. I wont let people at school pressure me into uni, at the end of the day, as I explained to them I will do whats best for the flying, I don't want to be an academic with a degree in a top subject from a top uni if It doesn't help in any way shape or form to becoming a pilot!! I also need to think about the money.

[captwannabe]

What did the different airlines have to say? Some universities have flying squadrons, so it would mean some free flying while studying for a degree. Just a thought.

Cheers

[captain Binns]

To cut it short, they just said get the A levels at as higher grade as possible. A degree was optional and not in anyway required (That was from BA and Bmi.) It is difficult to draw conclusions from it, I think you should just do what your happy with, maybe take a look at uni during the open days. For me, it's not so much about the qualification that attracts me to uni, but the life skills it gives you, which maybe of benifit when your applying for a job with the airlines.
Do you know which uni's have the flying squad's?
Thanks.
Andrew

[scott_cardiff]

Originally Posted by captain Binns

To cut it short, they just said get the A levels at as higher grade as possible. A degree was optional and not in anyway required (That was from BA and Bmi.) It is difficult to draw conclusions from it, I think you should just do what your happy with, maybe take a look at uni during the open days. For me, it's not so much about the qualification that attracts me to uni, but the life skills it gives you, which maybe of benifit when your applying for a job with the airlines.
Do you know which uni's have the flying squad's?
Thanks.
Andrew

I agree with you totally! The fact of me going to University is just not for the qualification, but for the life that is to be lived while there. I feel that I would learn alot about myself if I were to go to Uni, which would then put me in good stead for pilot training and applying to the airlines. Although at the moment, I am drawn to the idea of Uni, I still have a gut feeling that I should be going to a FTO such as FTE Jerez or OAT, after my A-levels, but then I think, no, I am going to Uni! I just cannot make up my mind!!!!

[Groundloop]

Originally Posted by scott_cardiff

Although at the moment, I am drawn to the idea of Uni, I still have a gut feeling that I should be going to a FTO such as FTE Jerez or OAT, after my A-levels, but then I think, no, I am going to Uni! I just cannot make up my mind!!!!

Why not do both at the same time!

[Capt Pit Bull]

A few observations.

Prospective commercial pilots would be well advised to take the deep view on this. If you are asking the question "what do airlines want" then that is only part of the big picture. "What will help me succeed at an ATPL" is better, "What will help me succeed over my entire career" is better still.

It is certainly posible to get through an ATPL with almost no education at all, however you need to ask yourself do you want a huge struggle, loads of rote learning yet only a shallow grasp of theoretical side of things? (never mind the concepts, just question spot?). If you struggle with Physics to AS level, you are going to have a struggle with the ATPL theory. If you are dropping physics now, all you are doing is postponing the need to understand it.

My basis for saying this: Previous ATPL ground instructor, previous airline pilot, current teacher of Physics.

With regards to degree courses. Thats a tricky one, but here a few thoughts:

1. The training scene only ever gets more convoluted and more expensive as yet another training requirement is successfully handed off from the airlines to the prospective employees and the regulatory authorites do more arse covering. Therefore there is a strong arguement to train NOW, or a soon as is possible.

2. Don't do a degree for the sake of doing one. Its got to be something you are interested in and can do well at. A few specifics: Some folks in this thread have mentioned engineering. Do not do Aero Eng, (or any form of engineering for that matter) unless you have rock solid maths and Physics to A2 level. If you can't do them to A2 level and score top grades then don't do engineering. In fact I'd go a step further. If you want to do Eng, I recommend doing Double Maths to A2. If you find it all pretty obvious, then maybe an engineering course is for you. Engineering is hugely maths reliant. This can not be overstated!

3. A degree imho is unlikely to be decisive in getting a flight crew job, so you have to ask whether it is worth the time and debt you will incur. You may curse those three years later in your career when the airlines enter a slow period and don't recruit, or people with Dates of joining 3 years earlier than you get their commands 10 years before you as the airlines expansion slows down, etc, etc.

4. But a degree offers other possibilities, both within the industry and without. In my case a degree in electronic eng helped me get into the training department of my first airline within about 10 months of joining. It allowed me to earn good money during the early 90s recession, and it gave me a get out from flying when I realised that half a career as flight crew was enough.

Now you all are probably fixated on flying for a living, and think that will never change. Some of you will need to be levered out of the flight deck on your 55/60/65th brithday, but many will leave, or wish to leave, before then. You'll want some options.

When I left BA, a very small number of people expressed disbelief, but a far greater number expressed the desire to have skill set that would allow them to do the same and still retain a decent income.

If you are thinking "I will fly aircraft forever" you are failing to have a suitable mindset as a comercial pilot. After all, we always consider the need for an alternate, don't we

pb

[freakin89]

I'm getting the impression here that an A level in physics/maths is pretty much essential?
I don't plan on doing either of them - they bore me and I really couldn't handle science again. Would not doing them hinder my chances of becoming a career pilot (so to speak)? Or is it simply a case of "having the edge" ?
I did a bit of research lately in terms of methods of getting a pilots licence and I'm fairly certain that the RAF would train you up from scratch to a pilot, so I guess if all else fails I can try for them, even if there is a minimum four year commitment or something.
Blah.

[Capt Pit Bull]

I really couldn't handle science again

Like I said, not essential, but you will really struggle. Expect to learn by rote.

I'm fairly certain that the RAF would train you up from scratch to a pilot, so I guess if all else fails I can try for them, even if there is a minimum four year commitment or something.

<slap> <slap> <slap> (that is a "wake up" call)

pb