Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)
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EDIT:
The post by Terry Holloway to which this was a reply seems to have been deleted while I was writing this post. Nonetheless, here is my reply to what he wrote:
Terry
Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately, the public statements that Ms Curtis-Taylor has made do not address the questions I asked, and I suggest that this is one of the reasons that posters to this thread have continued to pursue her.
As I said in an earlier post: some of the comments in this thread have been pretty offensive and I for one distance myself from them. That said: the three questions I asked remain unanswered and, until they are, I would suggest that there is little likelihood of Ms Curtis-Taylor slipping off the hook.
Of course I understand that you are not Ms Curtis-Taylor's spokesman. That said, you are probably the only one here with a direct link to her; and I still hope that this channel may provide a way of bringing this unhappy story to a good conclusion for all those involved.
Put simply and directly: I hope that you can act as a catalyst to help heal the wounds that this sorry saga has caused. You won't do that by trying to defend the indefensible, but it may be possible by building bridges. If you try to do that, I stand ready to help.
The post by Terry Holloway to which this was a reply seems to have been deleted while I was writing this post. Nonetheless, here is my reply to what he wrote:
Terry
Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately, the public statements that Ms Curtis-Taylor has made do not address the questions I asked, and I suggest that this is one of the reasons that posters to this thread have continued to pursue her.
As I said in an earlier post: some of the comments in this thread have been pretty offensive and I for one distance myself from them. That said: the three questions I asked remain unanswered and, until they are, I would suggest that there is little likelihood of Ms Curtis-Taylor slipping off the hook.
Of course I understand that you are not Ms Curtis-Taylor's spokesman. That said, you are probably the only one here with a direct link to her; and I still hope that this channel may provide a way of bringing this unhappy story to a good conclusion for all those involved.
Put simply and directly: I hope that you can act as a catalyst to help heal the wounds that this sorry saga has caused. You won't do that by trying to defend the indefensible, but it may be possible by building bridges. If you try to do that, I stand ready to help.
Last edited by Jonzarno; 16th Feb 2017 at 23:01. Reason: To explain that TH post has been deleted
Thread Starter
Boeing and their untruthful press releases.
Terry has strong links to Boeing so perhaps can answer this question.
Why did the company issue press releases stating that they were sponsoring solo expeditions when clearly they were not?
Here is one from the start of the Africa trip.
Boeing: Boeing Supporting Curtis-Taylor's S. Africa-to-UK Flight in Vintage Biplane
The press release above was used by countless newspapers and media to produce articles such as this.
https://exitstamp.wordpress.com/2013...storic-flight/
The article above credits Boeing with all picture copyright and includes this graphic.
Another Boeing press release here during the Australia expedition.
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boei...essRelease.pdf The credit for that press release and contact details
Dana Salloum
Corporate Communications Regional Director- ME & Sub Sahara
Boeing International
+971 4 2134747
[email protected]
It was press releases such as the above that fooled the media hence the solo headlines.
Of course if the truth had been known at the time there would have been no coverage for what would have been seen as a couple of people on an expensive sponsored joy ride.
Boeing have ignored my emails!
The Bird in a Biplane site carries this admission.
So why did she endorse this misleading story?
That was published six months before this interview with the UK Times newspaper.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bi...solo-k6pgp2crk October 2016
Why did the company issue press releases stating that they were sponsoring solo expeditions when clearly they were not?
Here is one from the start of the Africa trip.
CAPE TOWN, South Africa, Nov. 4, 2013 – With support from Boeing [NYSE: BA], pilot Tracey Curtis-Taylor has taken off on a 7,000-mile (11,000-kilometer) solo journey, in a reconditioned Boeing Stearman open-cockpit biplane, to retrace Lady Mary Heath’s historic 1928 flight between South Africa and the United Kingdom.
Heath was the first pilot, male or female, to make such a journey.
Curtis-Taylor, a UK-based pilot, departed Cape Town on Nov. 2 with plans to land in Goodwood, near London, in December. She is flying a refurbished 1942 Stearman named Spirit of Artemis, after sponsor Artemis Investments.
“We hope this journey inspires people along the route to learn more about the remarkable history of aviation and the role Boeing has played in the past, as well as the important role we play in African aviation today,” said Boeing Military Aircraft President Chris Chadwick.
Heath was the first pilot, male or female, to make such a journey.
Curtis-Taylor, a UK-based pilot, departed Cape Town on Nov. 2 with plans to land in Goodwood, near London, in December. She is flying a refurbished 1942 Stearman named Spirit of Artemis, after sponsor Artemis Investments.
“We hope this journey inspires people along the route to learn more about the remarkable history of aviation and the role Boeing has played in the past, as well as the important role we play in African aviation today,” said Boeing Military Aircraft President Chris Chadwick.
The press release above was used by countless newspapers and media to produce articles such as this.
51-year-old British pilot has taken off on a solo journey to retrace the historic 1928 flight of Lady Mary Heath from South Africa to the United Kingdom.Tracey Curtis-Taylor took off from Cape Town on Nov. 2 in a reconditioned 1942 Boeing Stearman open-cockpit biplane. The primary trainer for the U.S. Air Force, some 8,500 Stearmans were built during the 1930s and 1940s.
“We hope this journey inspires people along the route to learn more about the remarkable history of aviation and the role Boeing has played in the past,” said Boeing Military Aircraft president Chris Chadwick.
A biography posted on the flight website says Curtis-Taylor was born in Britain and spent her childhood in Canada before moving to New Zealand in her early 20s. She has since settled back in Britain.
The Spirit of Artemis has been fitted with cameras and the aircraft is being followed by a film crew in a chase plane.
The footage will become part of a documentary on the flight planned for release early next year.
All photos in this post are courtesy of Boeing and the flight website.
“We hope this journey inspires people along the route to learn more about the remarkable history of aviation and the role Boeing has played in the past,” said Boeing Military Aircraft president Chris Chadwick.
A biography posted on the flight website says Curtis-Taylor was born in Britain and spent her childhood in Canada before moving to New Zealand in her early 20s. She has since settled back in Britain.
The Spirit of Artemis has been fitted with cameras and the aircraft is being followed by a film crew in a chase plane.
The footage will become part of a documentary on the flight planned for release early next year.
All photos in this post are courtesy of Boeing and the flight website.
The article above credits Boeing with all picture copyright and includes this graphic.
Another Boeing press release here during the Australia expedition.
Pioneering Female Aviator Lands in Abu Dhabi in Historic Boeing Bi-Plane
Boeing sponsors solo open cockpit flight from U.K. to Australia
4,000 miles completed of the 13,000-mile journey across 23 countries
Abu Dhabi, November 4, 2015 - Adventurous British female aviator Tracey Curtis-Taylor landed safely today at Al-Bateen airport in Abu Dhabi in her classic 1942 Boeing Stearman Spirit of Artemis. The experienced pilot set off on her intrepid expedition from the U.K. to Australia October 1, aiming to fly 13,000 miles across 23 countries.
Flying in from Saudi Arabia, her arrival in the United Arab Emirates completes 4,000 miles of stick and rudder flying exposed to the elements with basic period instruments. And her plane will be featured as part of the Boeing display at the upcoming Dubai Air Show, which starts on Sunday
Ms Curtis-Taylor is undertaking the flight to celebrate the pioneering days of early aviation in the 1920s and 1930s, and especially the achievements of revolutionary British aviator Amy Johnson. A celebrity of her day, Ms Johnson became the first woman to fly solo from Britain to Australia in 1930 and tragically died in mysterious circumstances during World War II flying for the Air Transport Auxiliary.
Speaking on arrival in Abu Dhabi, Tracey Curtis-Taylor said, "For my whole life, I have been moved by the achievements of pioneers like Amy Johnson. My own flight to Australia is the realisation of a burning desire to fly my beloved Boeing Stearman Spirit of Artemis around the world following in their footsteps.
“I am delighted to have arrived in Abu Dhabi. The flight has already exceeded all my expectations and delivered unforgettable moments and incredible challenges. From nasty European weather delaying us across Romania to the beauty of flying at 100 feet over the desert, every moment is an extraordinary experience. I can’t wait to take my plane to the Dubai Air Show next."
Boeing sponsors solo open cockpit flight from U.K. to Australia
4,000 miles completed of the 13,000-mile journey across 23 countries
Abu Dhabi, November 4, 2015 - Adventurous British female aviator Tracey Curtis-Taylor landed safely today at Al-Bateen airport in Abu Dhabi in her classic 1942 Boeing Stearman Spirit of Artemis. The experienced pilot set off on her intrepid expedition from the U.K. to Australia October 1, aiming to fly 13,000 miles across 23 countries.
Flying in from Saudi Arabia, her arrival in the United Arab Emirates completes 4,000 miles of stick and rudder flying exposed to the elements with basic period instruments. And her plane will be featured as part of the Boeing display at the upcoming Dubai Air Show, which starts on Sunday
Ms Curtis-Taylor is undertaking the flight to celebrate the pioneering days of early aviation in the 1920s and 1930s, and especially the achievements of revolutionary British aviator Amy Johnson. A celebrity of her day, Ms Johnson became the first woman to fly solo from Britain to Australia in 1930 and tragically died in mysterious circumstances during World War II flying for the Air Transport Auxiliary.
Speaking on arrival in Abu Dhabi, Tracey Curtis-Taylor said, "For my whole life, I have been moved by the achievements of pioneers like Amy Johnson. My own flight to Australia is the realisation of a burning desire to fly my beloved Boeing Stearman Spirit of Artemis around the world following in their footsteps.
“I am delighted to have arrived in Abu Dhabi. The flight has already exceeded all my expectations and delivered unforgettable moments and incredible challenges. From nasty European weather delaying us across Romania to the beauty of flying at 100 feet over the desert, every moment is an extraordinary experience. I can’t wait to take my plane to the Dubai Air Show next."
Dana Salloum
Corporate Communications Regional Director- ME & Sub Sahara
Boeing International
+971 4 2134747
[email protected]
It was press releases such as the above that fooled the media hence the solo headlines.
Of course if the truth had been known at the time there would have been no coverage for what would have been seen as a couple of people on an expensive sponsored joy ride.
Boeing have ignored my emails!
The Bird in a Biplane site carries this admission.
I have previously stated they were not “solo flights”. They are all about a collaborative team effort and celebrating the brilliant achievements of women like Amy Johnson and Lady Heath who made history when aviation was in its infancy
That was published six months before this interview with the UK Times newspaper.
She admits she could have done more to correct misleading reports that made liberal use of the phrase “flying solo”.
“I wish we’d sorted that misreporting out but I can’t do everything all of the time,”
“I wish we’d sorted that misreporting out but I can’t do everything all of the time,”
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 17th Feb 2017 at 04:56.
Thread Starter
I can understand that but Marshall's are one of the UK's biggest contractors with links to the military division of Boeing. Surely you have access to ask the questions raised regarding the misleading solo press releases?
Boeing's Military Division sponsored Spirit of Artemis on both expeditions . Press officers only release info sanctioned from above.
The Boeing Military air chief is quoted in the South Africa solo press release.
He either thought she was flying solo or he was misled.
Boeing organised the Royal Aeronautical Society speech in Sydney via their press agency D'Arcy Partnership.
Is there any reason why such a major company would not want to correct their errors in claiming they were solo flights?
Boeing's Military Division sponsored Spirit of Artemis on both expeditions . Press officers only release info sanctioned from above.
The Boeing Military air chief is quoted in the South Africa solo press release.
“We hope this journey inspires people along the route to learn more about the remarkable history of aviation and the role Boeing has played in the past, as well as the important role we play in African aviation today,” said Boeing Military Aircraft President Chris Chadwick
Boeing organised the Royal Aeronautical Society speech in Sydney via their press agency D'Arcy Partnership.
Is there any reason why such a major company would not want to correct their errors in claiming they were solo flights?
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 17th Feb 2017 at 06:32.
Thread Starter
I feel Boeing owe us an explanation.
Many of the misleading headlines in the press and on tv claiming solo flights were based on their press releases and PR representation.
As I have said before the Sydney arrival and press conference were skillfully handled to mislead the media. D'Arcey Partnership represented Boeing and admit they handled all the Australian end.
Many of the misleading headlines in the press and on tv claiming solo flights were based on their press releases and PR representation.
As I have said before the Sydney arrival and press conference were skillfully handled to mislead the media. D'Arcey Partnership represented Boeing and admit they handled all the Australian end.
"He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon"
It seems to me that TCT's basic error was getting caught up in the big boy's PR machine in return for a well supported, adventurous series of flights. And how many amongst us could honestly say that we would have been able to foresee the problems which would arise and have resisted such a tempting opportunity.
Having "sold her soul to the devil" as it were, her poor handling of the aftermath has actually shown her not to be a naturally devious person as so often portrayed on this thread. Perhaps an admission from her that this has been the case would be well received and understood. It would also be a very good warning to anybody, in any field, thinking of allying themselves with companies with large PR budgets.
Having "sold her soul to the devil" as it were, her poor handling of the aftermath has actually shown her not to be a naturally devious person as so often portrayed on this thread. Perhaps an admission from her that this has been the case would be well received and understood. It would also be a very good warning to anybody, in any field, thinking of allying themselves with companies with large PR budgets.
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It seems to me that TCT's basic error was getting caught up in the big boy's PR machine in return for a well supported, adventurous series of flights. And how many amongst us could honestly say that we would have been able to foresee the problems which would arise and have resisted such a tempting opportunity.
Having "sold her soul to the devil" as it were, her poor handling of the aftermath has actually shown her not to be a naturally devious person as so often portrayed on this thread. Perhaps an admission from her that this has been the case would be well received and understood. It would also be a very good warning to anybody, in any field, thinking of allying themselves with companies with large PR budgets.
Having "sold her soul to the devil" as it were, her poor handling of the aftermath has actually shown her not to be a naturally devious person as so often portrayed on this thread. Perhaps an admission from her that this has been the case would be well received and understood. It would also be a very good warning to anybody, in any field, thinking of allying themselves with companies with large PR budgets.
Unfortunately for her, the tactic of ignoring the problem and waiting for it all to go away hasn't worked and, as I posted earlier, I would suggest she should try another approach. I hope that perhaps Terry can persuade her to do that.
Thread Starter
Sam Rutherford, her former flight planning and logistics manager,revealed over a year ago, it all went wrong in Africa a couple of legs out of Cape Town. She did not have the ability to fly alone cross country.
One would have thought the Honourable Company of Air Pilots might have seen sense after the Chris Ford letter became public. However they were determined to rewrite the citation and put her on the same footing as Nick Peake.
Then there was the blatant attempt to sway the Light Aircraft Association vote and retain the Bill Woodham Navigation Award. This despite having others carry out all the flight planning and navigation for the Africa trip.
Her defence of her tactics was laughable in the Times.
In all my years of flying fixed wing and helicopters I have never flown so low cross country that I needed
someone else to stop me hitting extremely low level obstructions below 100ft.
If she could not maintain a lookout or used others to plan the navigation how the hell was she trying to fly?
That same Times article contained this claim.
I might have missed something but I can no evidence of TCT flying a light aircraft around the world.
One other question remains unanswered.
Why have we never seen Tracey solo flying the Spirit of Artemis across the UK since the accident in accident in Arizona?
The fact remains Boeing lied in their press releases.
One would have thought the Honourable Company of Air Pilots might have seen sense after the Chris Ford letter became public. However they were determined to rewrite the citation and put her on the same footing as Nick Peake.
Then there was the blatant attempt to sway the Light Aircraft Association vote and retain the Bill Woodham Navigation Award. This despite having others carry out all the flight planning and navigation for the Africa trip.
Her defence of her tactics was laughable in the Times.
She estimates she was alone in the aircraft for about 10 per cent of the time, with guest passengers for 20 per cent and with Ewald Gritsch, her Austrian engineer, for the rest.
“When we’re filming, flying low over places like the Bagan temples in Burma, it was Ewald’s job to look out for hazards, wires, cables, cell towers, temples. I was the one flying the plane.”
“When we’re filming, flying low over places like the Bagan temples in Burma, it was Ewald’s job to look out for hazards, wires, cables, cell towers, temples. I was the one flying the plane.”
someone else to stop me hitting extremely low level obstructions below 100ft.
If she could not maintain a lookout or used others to plan the navigation how the hell was she trying to fly?
That same Times article contained this claim.
Even after flying around the world in her fifties, she said she had to laugh when she was described in one report as a “former waitress from Canada. I just love that. When Amy Johnson flew to Australia, you know what she was dubbed as? The typist from Hull. Here we go again.”
One other question remains unanswered.
Why have we never seen Tracey solo flying the Spirit of Artemis across the UK since the accident in accident in Arizona?
The fact remains Boeing lied in their press releases.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 17th Feb 2017 at 09:34.
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At last, this endlessly fascinating thread has taken a real turn for the better.
Imho, wherever possible, organisations, not individuals, which have misled or been misled should be pursued. This avoids the campaign being discredited by allegations of personal attacks and misogyny.
It certainly appears that press statement issue by Boeing and it's representatives were misleading and so the company should be asked for an explanation.
Furthermore, as I pointed out earlier: "There is no argument that the flights were not solo- TCT has admitted as much (albeit belatedly).
The main argument now, imho, is whether the organisations that gave her awards for these flights were aware that they were not solo flights when they decided to make these awards.
Furthermore, now that they are aware of this, will they consider rescinding these awards as the LAA has done."
Imho, wherever possible, organisations, not individuals, which have misled or been misled should be pursued. This avoids the campaign being discredited by allegations of personal attacks and misogyny.
It certainly appears that press statement issue by Boeing and it's representatives were misleading and so the company should be asked for an explanation.
Furthermore, as I pointed out earlier: "There is no argument that the flights were not solo- TCT has admitted as much (albeit belatedly).
The main argument now, imho, is whether the organisations that gave her awards for these flights were aware that they were not solo flights when they decided to make these awards.
Furthermore, now that they are aware of this, will they consider rescinding these awards as the LAA has done."
I have no issue with someone asking for sponsorship based on an idea (It will be flown solo, I intend to walk Lands End to john O'Groats for charity etc) but when that idea changes to something else (It will be dual, or I did it on the train) I have to ask if the sponsors were informed; hence my questions. Were they informed or did they find out by chance, if they were told, when? Exactly what steps were taken to correct the many press reports, I have seen zero evidence of this.
An individual with integrity may well have been caught up on the PR steam-train but would have said "I'm sorry, I cannot accept this award, it was a team effort" or "I wanted to fly it solo but couldn't because (insert reason)".
There is still a chance for her to produce the facts, no matter how unpalatable that may seem; it will go a long way to restoring some semblance of a reputation.
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I can understand that but Marshall's are one of the UK's biggest contractors with links to the military division of Boeing. Surely you have access to ask the questions raised regarding the misleading solo press releases?
Boeing's Military Division sponsored Spirit of Artemis on both expeditions . Press officers only release info sanctioned from above.
The Boeing Military air chief is quoted in the South Africa solo press release.
He either thought she was flying solo or he was misled.
Boeing organised the Royal Aeronautical Society speech in Sydney via their press agency D'Arcy Partnership.
Is there any reason why such a major company would not want to correct their errors in claiming they were solo flights?
Boeing's Military Division sponsored Spirit of Artemis on both expeditions . Press officers only release info sanctioned from above.
The Boeing Military air chief is quoted in the South Africa solo press release.
He either thought she was flying solo or he was misled.
Boeing organised the Royal Aeronautical Society speech in Sydney via their press agency D'Arcy Partnership.
Is there any reason why such a major company would not want to correct their errors in claiming they were solo flights?
Nothing new is out there and it now seems from some of the posts that Boeing is the villain! Certainly the media reporting was not well handled but TCT has explained that in her statements.
Forfoxake:
Goodness, now I wonder who would have the motivation and resources to turn up the heat on Boeing? It would be a sort of "A vs B" thing, a well matched fight instead of David vs Goliath.
Can anyone think of anyone to raise it with at an appropriate commercial organisation - Anyone But US?
organisations, not individuals, which have misled or been misled should be pursued....
It certainly appears that press statement issue by Boeing and it's representatives were misleading and so the company should be asked for an explanation.
It certainly appears that press statement issue by Boeing and it's representatives were misleading and so the company should be asked for an explanation.
Can anyone think of anyone to raise it with at an appropriate commercial organisation - Anyone But US?
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Unfortunately for her, the tactic of ignoring the problem and waiting for it all to go away hasn't worked and, as I posted earlier, I would suggest she should try another approach. I hope that perhaps Terry can persuade her to do that.
Except, that was not her tactic at all. Her tactic was to start issuing threats, both directly and via a solicitor. Only When that failed - as it always was going to - has she gone deep and silent (with the exception of the relentless wikipedia editing).
There is a profound difference, and most of the folk on here are more than smart enough to see it.
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Forfoxake:
Goodness, now I wonder who would have the motivation and resources to turn up the heat on Boeing? It would be a sort of "A vs B" thing, a well matched fight instead of David vs Goliath.
Can anyone think of anyone to raise it with at an appropriate commercial organisation - Anyone But US?
Goodness, now I wonder who would have the motivation and resources to turn up the heat on Boeing? It would be a sort of "A vs B" thing, a well matched fight instead of David vs Goliath.
Can anyone think of anyone to raise it with at an appropriate commercial organisation - Anyone But US?
Moreover organisations that have given awards, such at Portsmouth Uni and HCAP, are not as formidable imho.
PS Just got your Airbus joke.
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What has only been rarely mentioned, but was in JS's 3539, is that the whole problem is that TCT bigged up her CV to get the sponsership (with who's help?) then it was found that her aviating skills weren't up to the job after things had started. This was clear from the start of this thread.
What is really puzzling, is how they, collectively, thought they could get away with another trip under the same terms, when so many people could question it? Boeing and Artifice will not be too bothered about the fuss and just write it off. Others will suffer a bit more, esp TCT. Even if she answers the questions posed on this thread, her future is opening garden fetes or envelopes. It could have been a lot better.
What is really puzzling, is how they, collectively, thought they could get away with another trip under the same terms, when so many people could question it? Boeing and Artifice will not be too bothered about the fuss and just write it off. Others will suffer a bit more, esp TCT. Even if she answers the questions posed on this thread, her future is opening garden fetes or envelopes. It could have been a lot better.
Unfortunately for her, the tactic of ignoring the problem and waiting for it all to go away hasn't worked
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Perhaps coming clean would expose her to a Lance Armstrong type legal claim in the US. Lance was sponsored by the US post office, Lance lied about how he performed the sporting task he was sponsored to carry out and is currently being sued for it by a third party under federal whistleblower statutes that include a triple damages clause. Now Boeing is a private company but they do receive federal contracts and funds.
Perhaps she's been advised to keep quiet so as not to step into the sights of a opportunist ambulance chaser.
Perhaps she's been advised to keep quiet so as not to step into the sights of a opportunist ambulance chaser.
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I feel Boeing owe us an explanation.
Many of the misleading headlines in the press and on tv claiming solo flights were based on their press releases and PR representation.
As I have said before the Sydney arrival and press conference were skillfully handled to mislead the media. D'Arcey Partnership represented Boeing and admit they handled all the Australian end.
Many of the misleading headlines in the press and on tv claiming solo flights were based on their press releases and PR representation.
As I have said before the Sydney arrival and press conference were skillfully handled to mislead the media. D'Arcey Partnership represented Boeing and admit they handled all the Australian end.
Boeing owes an explanation to anonymous people on a social site? Get real!
Last edited by terry holloway; 17th Feb 2017 at 22:49. Reason: Typo
Yes, I work for Marshall, but as I have said before, Marshall has no involvement with TCT. Therefore it is quite inappropriate for me to use any personal contacts to ask any questions about a topic which has no relevance to any work and activities today. - TH
What a splensid non sequitur.
Jack
What a splensid non sequitur.
Jack