Oban/Glenforsa News
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But then again Helen it has in the past been handled traffic loads many factors higher than they are just now and nobody has come to grief before this farce and I am sure it will again when the council runs out of money to keep the current situation.
And lets face it the FISO's there arn't that bright, it will be good to tell the local birds how they sorted this snotty pilot out when they are out in the pub but does nothing for flight safety apart from royally pissing everyone off. In fact its more likely to cause an incident because the pilot will be flying off fumming about being dicked around royaly.
And the some total of all the MORs they filed on pilots so far, absolutely diddly squat. I believe the CAA even stopped contacting pilots and asking for their side of events when a MOR was filed by Oban. Thats third hand though from folk who were told they were getting a MOR filed on by the FISO and never heard anything.
And if there was an incident it would quite quickly decend into a load of headless chickens running around bumping into each other.
And lets face it the FISO's there arn't that bright, it will be good to tell the local birds how they sorted this snotty pilot out when they are out in the pub but does nothing for flight safety apart from royally pissing everyone off. In fact its more likely to cause an incident because the pilot will be flying off fumming about being dicked around royaly.
And the some total of all the MORs they filed on pilots so far, absolutely diddly squat. I believe the CAA even stopped contacting pilots and asking for their side of events when a MOR was filed by Oban. Thats third hand though from folk who were told they were getting a MOR filed on by the FISO and never heard anything.
And if there was an incident it would quite quickly decend into a load of headless chickens running around bumping into each other.
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Went in to Oban on Friday 3 June. No problems. Everyone very pleasant. I don't recall radio calls being specified. It was busier than Inverness. Would you object to making routine radio calls there?
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Ouch. I wasn't going to be that direct this time around.
This time around, however, there was no repeat of the "It's in front of you" information from the FISO about helipad locations from three miles out, and I wasn't sworn at for lack of high viz having ventured 6 feet from the helicopter.
Mitigating factors may have been a) I wasn't in a helicopter and b) the particularly grumpy high-viz-fetishist member of staff on that occasion wasn't to be seen.
Part of the problem is that I doubt anyone manning the Oban tower has ever been higher than the tower itself, and never practised aviation in the area.
Ultimately, they have my pity, rather than scorn - if you were going to do things all over again, you would look for a few hundred hours SEP experience, in situ, for Oban FISOs.
I might be wrong, but you don't get the impression they really understand what happens when the wheels or skids leave the ground, or what it is like to be scudding back in suddenly marginal conditions.
I have to say, though, the painting of ground markings is first rate. Millimetre perfect.
The local government's experiment with the Euro gravy-train has led to a major boom for local block-paving, building and tarmac contractors, but done nothing to promote aviation in the area.
They should hand the whole lot back to the entrepreneurs and businessmen in the area who understand how to make a runway part of a viable business, rather than those who think simply having possession of a runway is a meal-ticket for life.
This time around, however, there was no repeat of the "It's in front of you" information from the FISO about helipad locations from three miles out, and I wasn't sworn at for lack of high viz having ventured 6 feet from the helicopter.
Mitigating factors may have been a) I wasn't in a helicopter and b) the particularly grumpy high-viz-fetishist member of staff on that occasion wasn't to be seen.
Part of the problem is that I doubt anyone manning the Oban tower has ever been higher than the tower itself, and never practised aviation in the area.
Ultimately, they have my pity, rather than scorn - if you were going to do things all over again, you would look for a few hundred hours SEP experience, in situ, for Oban FISOs.
I might be wrong, but you don't get the impression they really understand what happens when the wheels or skids leave the ground, or what it is like to be scudding back in suddenly marginal conditions.
I have to say, though, the painting of ground markings is first rate. Millimetre perfect.
The local government's experiment with the Euro gravy-train has led to a major boom for local block-paving, building and tarmac contractors, but done nothing to promote aviation in the area.
They should hand the whole lot back to the entrepreneurs and businessmen in the area who understand how to make a runway part of a viable business, rather than those who think simply having possession of a runway is a meal-ticket for life.
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Oban
Flew in to Oban for the first time on Friday 3rd.
What a delightful experience.
Everyone helpful, PPR easy, fuelling easy, landing fee reasonable, breathtaking scenery - best day's flying I have had.
Sorry to be the bringer of good news.
What a delightful experience.
Everyone helpful, PPR easy, fuelling easy, landing fee reasonable, breathtaking scenery - best day's flying I have had.
Sorry to be the bringer of good news.
As per usual on this thread, lots of people who find Oban Airfield to be a delightful place in EVERY respect. Friendly helpful staff doing their best to provide a good service.
Shame about the politics and a shame that criticism too often becomes so personal. Also a shame that some of the personnel, whom one may presume have mortgages and families, are likely to find themselves out of work in the near future.
To those who have such difficulty with the airfield and its personnel, don't go there. Find another airfield to visit; lots of them around.
H49
Shame about the politics and a shame that criticism too often becomes so personal. Also a shame that some of the personnel, whom one may presume have mortgages and families, are likely to find themselves out of work in the near future.
To those who have such difficulty with the airfield and its personnel, don't go there. Find another airfield to visit; lots of them around.
H49
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Well I was there Friday too. A beautiful day. I got a row though for not PPR'ing. Had my Flight Plan - but I did not phone
However, part from that, very pleasant. Busy too
However, part from that, very pleasant. Busy too
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"To those who have such difficulty with the airfield and its personnel, don't go there. Find another airfield to visit; lots of them around. "
Unfortunately this attitude is why Oban looses out.
The unwillingness to accept criticism (constructive or otherwise).
Without investigating such criticism and acting upon the findings nothing will change.
Unfortunately this attitude is why Oban looses out.
The unwillingness to accept criticism (constructive or otherwise).
Without investigating such criticism and acting upon the findings nothing will change.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Probably not that easy to change things now.
The problem started when the council decided it wanted a mini Heathrow and the airfield ops manual was written with that in mind. The employees are following it to the letter because they are told to. It is a pity that the airport has not been able to employ "aviation people" but there is a relatively small population to draw from around Oban.
Don't let it put you off. It's a great destination. After all you are still reading this forum even if it is 50% s**t.
D.O.
The problem started when the council decided it wanted a mini Heathrow and the airfield ops manual was written with that in mind. The employees are following it to the letter because they are told to. It is a pity that the airport has not been able to employ "aviation people" but there is a relatively small population to draw from around Oban.
Don't let it put you off. It's a great destination. After all you are still reading this forum even if it is 50% s**t.
D.O.
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A brilliant example of what hospitality in this area means from some people - (for those not in the know it has meant in the distant past murdering your guests in their beds!!!)
Mostly it just means hotels where all the staff are from well outside the area.
Most of the locals who know anything are just very embarassed by the mess the council have made - it does tend to make them pretty sensitive though...
The 'rules' which are inconsistently applied are a pain - but it is the only practical place to get fuel. I generally try to fly to the west and back on full tanks to avoid having to stop there for a whole variety of reasons.
To those who have to stop - it is no worst than many regional airports which have delusions way above their actual position - it is simply even more incongruous. So read the guide, ask for PPR, religiously follow the rules and your visit will probably be fine. ('fine' local venacular for good!)
Mostly it just means hotels where all the staff are from well outside the area.
Most of the locals who know anything are just very embarassed by the mess the council have made - it does tend to make them pretty sensitive though...
The 'rules' which are inconsistently applied are a pain - but it is the only practical place to get fuel. I generally try to fly to the west and back on full tanks to avoid having to stop there for a whole variety of reasons.
To those who have to stop - it is no worst than many regional airports which have delusions way above their actual position - it is simply even more incongruous. So read the guide, ask for PPR, religiously follow the rules and your visit will probably be fine. ('fine' local venacular for good!)
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I was also in Oban on Friday 3rd - everyone there was extremely helpful, friendly and the fantastic weather certainly helped! It's been a while since I last went up, but I'll certainly be going again soon...
Last edited by mfalcon; 7th Jun 2011 at 12:29. Reason: corrected typo!
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I was a fairly regular visitor to Oban. The airfield won awards for best GA airfield two years running if I remember. I am not restricted to Oban because of fuel so I can chose to visit or not. If the rules are changed to “conventional GA” I will certainly try it again, but I have stayed away for some time. Call for startup is way OTT and all the MOR’s were a joke which has hurt its reputation.
Rod1
Rod1
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I have always liked visiting both Glenforsa and Oban and have never had an issue other than trying to find a chap who is meant to collect landing fees having his mid afternoon doze.
I think there are some here who forget what a wonderful part of the world Mull and its surrounds are.
I think there are some here who forget what a wonderful part of the world Mull and its surrounds are.
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Oban FISO's
And lets face it the FISO's there arn't that bright, it will be good to tell the local birds how they sorted this snotty pilot out when they are out in the pub but does nothing for flight safety apart from royally pissing everyone off. In fact its more likely to cause an incident because the pilot will be flying off fumming about being dicked around royaly.
. They are just doing their job and in my mind they are doing a quite good job now. Yes they have to follow rules, like us all at our jobs we have rules, and not to forget GA pilots also have rules.I think MAD JOCK should appoligise for this statement, GA pilots should come back to OBAN as much as possible and enjoy their time at Oban. There has been problems in the past and still some ongoing but don't we all think that it is about time we all grew up and enjoyed this great pat of Scotland to its full.
I think Oban can take any critisim put to them, they can be helpful and they are mostly always very friendly. Why not come into Oban,
let them know what the GA pilots would like to see at Oban and you never know it could just happen. So MAD JOCK maybe you should go in and speak to the FISO's, but that borders on slander
.Oban Airport should be great and they should all work together
and make it even better.
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This thread is full of new posters singing the praises of Oban. Presumalby every staff member is a Pprune member by now!
Well yes it was good. As it presently stands it is bearable but not much more. Choosing to visit somewhere where the rules are nonsensical, their application inconsistent and the welcome pretty variable? Why bother?
To all those new posters - fix it!!!!
Stop wanting the rest of the world to change to accept the warped reality of Argyll and Bute Cooncil and sort out the mess.
Only then will the aircraft flock in - remember before all the cr$p it was the best GA airfield in the UK - that will never recur with the present nonsense fix the stupid rules and the jobsworth MOR-ing!!!
Well yes it was good. As it presently stands it is bearable but not much more. Choosing to visit somewhere where the rules are nonsensical, their application inconsistent and the welcome pretty variable? Why bother?
To all those new posters - fix it!!!!
Stop wanting the rest of the world to change to accept the warped reality of Argyll and Bute Cooncil and sort out the mess.
Only then will the aircraft flock in - remember before all the cr$p it was the best GA airfield in the UK - that will never recur with the present nonsense fix the stupid rules and the jobsworth MOR-ing!!!
"Stop wanting the rest of the world to change to accept the warped reality of Argyll and Bute Cooncil and sort out the mess. ----- and the jobsworth MOR-ing!!! "
In the rest of the UK, you seem to have procedures similar to Oban at manned airfields. What does MOR stand for? I thought it was MANDATORY occurrence Report.
The A&B guys are simply trying to carry out what they've been told are the rules. A&B C is likely to be doing what the expert(s) it consulted advised it to do.
Oban is still a very welcoming airfield, both at the fuel and the terminal. I am not, and never have been, an employee or member of A&B, or its predecessor authorities. (Nor an A&B resident.)
In the rest of the UK, you seem to have procedures similar to Oban at manned airfields. What does MOR stand for? I thought it was MANDATORY occurrence Report.
The A&B guys are simply trying to carry out what they've been told are the rules. A&B C is likely to be doing what the expert(s) it consulted advised it to do.
Oban is still a very welcoming airfield, both at the fuel and the terminal. I am not, and never have been, an employee or member of A&B, or its predecessor authorities. (Nor an A&B resident.)
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I have spoken to them thats why I know they aren't very bright.
They arn't doing a good job, you should maybe get some of the fiso's from Barra or Sum to come across and show how it is done well. I might add they had the same bloke teaching them so its not his fault.
And you seem to forget most pilots have range of airports to compare against which is why we have more of a realistic opinion about the true level of service. Oban is getting it wrong.
And remember when your in the pub with a load of what you think are smelly divers talking about the Breda some of them are also pilots. And getting some poor sod to taxi round in circles 4 times to prove a point and boasting about it tends to prove the point about not being very bright.
Your your own worst enemys, until you can see that there isn't much hope of things improving.
MOR is as you say but obviously nobody at the council or airport has read what in the list of manditory things are http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP382.PDF
Ther system is not there to be used as a whipping device, its there to provide a "mechanism to collect, evaluate, process and store occurance data". So Oban has missed the point if it thinks that filling on pilots is going to put them on the naughty step with the CAA, because it doesn't. If anything it proves the point that if you landed before the licensed area of the runway at oban it was actually a safe thing to do because they had 100's of MORs on the subject and zero incidents.
I suspect most MOR's from Oban will get filed under grade E and never see the light of day again.
They arn't doing a good job, you should maybe get some of the fiso's from Barra or Sum to come across and show how it is done well. I might add they had the same bloke teaching them so its not his fault.
And you seem to forget most pilots have range of airports to compare against which is why we have more of a realistic opinion about the true level of service. Oban is getting it wrong.
And remember when your in the pub with a load of what you think are smelly divers talking about the Breda some of them are also pilots. And getting some poor sod to taxi round in circles 4 times to prove a point and boasting about it tends to prove the point about not being very bright.
Your your own worst enemys, until you can see that there isn't much hope of things improving.
MOR is as you say but obviously nobody at the council or airport has read what in the list of manditory things are http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP382.PDF
Ther system is not there to be used as a whipping device, its there to provide a "mechanism to collect, evaluate, process and store occurance data". So Oban has missed the point if it thinks that filling on pilots is going to put them on the naughty step with the CAA, because it doesn't. If anything it proves the point that if you landed before the licensed area of the runway at oban it was actually a safe thing to do because they had 100's of MORs on the subject and zero incidents.
I suspect most MOR's from Oban will get filed under grade E and never see the light of day again.
Last edited by mad_jock; 8th Jun 2011 at 21:11.
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108,180 views of this thread. Just imagine each one of those turning into a visit to Oban once a year.....
NS
PS: no, haven't been yet this year, but it's not for the want of trying. 61 knot winds in May, sheeesh.
NS
PS: no, haven't been yet this year, but it's not for the want of trying. 61 knot winds in May, sheeesh.
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Putting everything aside, for everyone reading this forum, the facility at Oban is marvellous. The airfield development has been a massive bonus, for not only locals, but visiting GA.
The employees are only doing what they think is their job, and trying, as far as I can see, to be 'professional'. Nothing wrong with that. Yes it can be a pain in the arse, however, its like flying Ryanair - take the brain out, follow the rules, and no hastle. When you attempt to buck the system, thats when the trouble starts.
Therefore, smile at the little chipmunk sitting on their shoulders, say of course we can, and have a nice day - simples
x ray - I will pm you on that one
The employees are only doing what they think is their job, and trying, as far as I can see, to be 'professional'. Nothing wrong with that. Yes it can be a pain in the arse, however, its like flying Ryanair - take the brain out, follow the rules, and no hastle. When you attempt to buck the system, thats when the trouble starts.
Therefore, smile at the little chipmunk sitting on their shoulders, say of course we can, and have a nice day - simples
x ray - I will pm you on that one
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Contract awarded for Oban flights | Argyll and Bute Council.
With a full time staff of 8 how on earth do the 'cooncil' think this is sustainable?
With a full time staff of 8 how on earth do the 'cooncil' think this is sustainable?