Oban/Glenforsa News
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What is a "Category Two Islander?"
As opposed to a Category Three aircraft up to, but not including, 18m in length.....
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The resumption of the full length runway means that it is now possible to accommodate not only the Category Two Islander aircraft which flies to the islands, but also larger Category Three aircraft.
There have already been a number of larger aircraft visiting the airport and the demand from visiting aircraft to return to Oban is extremely encouraging.
There have already been a number of larger aircraft visiting the airport and the demand from visiting aircraft to return to Oban is extremely encouraging.
NS
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These are 'political aircraft. Based upon the theory that if you build it the trade will come. In this case it is providing 8 full time jobs - so obviously the larger aircraft which have always been frustrated by the reduced runway length will flock to the lock block apron.
As always with ABC wishful thinking and a complete ignorance of the facts will out.
As always with ABC wishful thinking and a complete ignorance of the facts will out.
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Airpolice the written form isn't my best I would fully agree. And yes I had remedial help up to 16 years old with it, and even failed O grade english first time. But you can be assured the science subjects and maths no additonal help was required.
In fact my partner in crime in said remedial classes, who also had his arm put in a sling to stop him using his left hand, is part of the design team at CERN that has just managed to hold antimatter for a 1000 seconds. I am no where near his level of inteligence but then again not many folk are. But you can't trust him with a screw driver and he can't reverse park a car if his life was riding on it. He doesn't like being called rainman either.
As for the council and manning levels, its fairly typical method of down sizing without getting to much adverse PR. Drop from 12-8 with 4 getting relocated to different jobs, then in a few months time things arn't working so chop another couple. Give it another couple of months then chop another 2 if folk haven't left already, then another couple of months and things still haven't improved chop another 2 and your then down to a more realistic 2-3 members of staff.
As a suggestion to the firemen why don't you use that highly expensive compressor for your BA sets to fill diving bottles?
And get someone skilled up enough to hydrotest the bottles. There are hundreds of the bloody things in the area (all the firestations need them done as well) and the last time I needed one done in that area it had to go down to Glasgow or Aberdeen. 30 quid a pop for a hydrotest and 5 quid a fill for a diver.
But then this obvious branching out using payed for reasources is so against the normal council employee mentality I am sure they will find a whole raft of rules which prevents them from aquiring I will admit a modest income stream.
As for the style of the airport and customer experence they really need to get a grip. There are quite a few highly experenced controllers in semi retirement kicking around the highlands, the one that springs to mind I was suprised to see in the Scilly Islands last time I visited. Get one of them in with a sharp pencil with the rule book and show the lads how to really run a FISO service. Do some exchanges with other FISO service airports which have way more experence than Oban. The level of traffic of big stuff is pie in the sky but with a change in attitude you should be able to increase the GA significantly.
In fact my partner in crime in said remedial classes, who also had his arm put in a sling to stop him using his left hand, is part of the design team at CERN that has just managed to hold antimatter for a 1000 seconds. I am no where near his level of inteligence but then again not many folk are. But you can't trust him with a screw driver and he can't reverse park a car if his life was riding on it. He doesn't like being called rainman either.
As for the council and manning levels, its fairly typical method of down sizing without getting to much adverse PR. Drop from 12-8 with 4 getting relocated to different jobs, then in a few months time things arn't working so chop another couple. Give it another couple of months then chop another 2 if folk haven't left already, then another couple of months and things still haven't improved chop another 2 and your then down to a more realistic 2-3 members of staff.
As a suggestion to the firemen why don't you use that highly expensive compressor for your BA sets to fill diving bottles?
And get someone skilled up enough to hydrotest the bottles. There are hundreds of the bloody things in the area (all the firestations need them done as well) and the last time I needed one done in that area it had to go down to Glasgow or Aberdeen. 30 quid a pop for a hydrotest and 5 quid a fill for a diver.
But then this obvious branching out using payed for reasources is so against the normal council employee mentality I am sure they will find a whole raft of rules which prevents them from aquiring I will admit a modest income stream.
As for the style of the airport and customer experence they really need to get a grip. There are quite a few highly experenced controllers in semi retirement kicking around the highlands, the one that springs to mind I was suprised to see in the Scilly Islands last time I visited. Get one of them in with a sharp pencil with the rule book and show the lads how to really run a FISO service. Do some exchanges with other FISO service airports which have way more experence than Oban. The level of traffic of big stuff is pie in the sky but with a change in attitude you should be able to increase the GA significantly.
Last edited by mad_jock; 10th Jun 2011 at 17:04.
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I see there is a Face=book page entitled "Support Oban Airport" which seems to be celebrating the return of all the jet and turbine traffic since the fence came down.
However having flown overhead yesterday I see the displaced threshold markings are still there, suggesting the LDA/TORA/TODA or whatever are as before.
So whats changed ?
However having flown overhead yesterday I see the displaced threshold markings are still there, suggesting the LDA/TORA/TODA or whatever are as before.
So whats changed ?
Could it just be that there are only a limited number of companies in the business of painting airfield markings; the weather has been unsettled in recent weeks [particularly in western Scotland]; there are other airfields in the queue for painting; hence the delay?? Oh and perhaps you cannot publish revised distances until the markings are in place?
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No changes to the AIP entry since September last year so no hurry then!
I do believe it is an expensive operation to get the markings removed. It would probably have been cheaper to bulldoze the fence and face the consequences. It's kind of like when I was a kid I prayed to god for a bike with no success. So I stole one and prayed for forgiveness.
140KIAS try landing before the threshold and see if you still get MORed
If all the AC that touch down short at one of the fields you visited at the weekend were MORed there would be no room in the hangar for aircraft because of the paperwork.
Edited to say I stand corrected. Notam states there may be wip on runway markings in the evenings. Black tippex?
D.O.
I do believe it is an expensive operation to get the markings removed. It would probably have been cheaper to bulldoze the fence and face the consequences. It's kind of like when I was a kid I prayed to god for a bike with no success. So I stole one and prayed for forgiveness.
140KIAS try landing before the threshold and see if you still get MORed
If all the AC that touch down short at one of the fields you visited at the weekend were MORed there would be no room in the hangar for aircraft because of the paperwork.
Edited to say I stand corrected. Notam states there may be wip on runway markings in the evenings. Black tippex?
D.O.
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Q) egpx/qfahw/iv/nbo/a/000/999/5628n00524w005
b) from: 11/07/05 12:39c) to: 11/07/09 12:00
e) wip renewing ad linemarking (possibly working until sunset).
Contact ad on 01631 710 910 for further updates during operational
hours.
L2958/11
b) from: 11/07/05 12:39c) to: 11/07/09 12:00
e) wip renewing ad linemarking (possibly working until sunset).
Contact ad on 01631 710 910 for further updates during operational
hours.
L2958/11
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Could it just be that there are only a limited number of companies in the business of painting airfield markings; the weather has been unsettled in recent weeks [particularly in western Scotland]; there are other airfields in the queue for painting; hence the delay?? Oh and perhaps you cannot publish revised distances until the markings are in place?
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If all the AC that touch down short at one of the fields you visited at the weekend
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Its prob more likely that the paint burning machine of the council is already booked out all summer on road works.
And two council deptments interacting with each other is always rife with problems. If it would have been a private booking they would have done it on over time so it would have been done and dusted with in a week.
Then nodoudt there are a heap of rules about having a lorry which for all intents and purposes is a large bomb full of gas etc airside. Unfortunately the blokes that drive it have been working for the council for the last 25 years and there are maybe issues getting them CRC checked for airport pass.
Then there will be SEPA involved and a risk assesment of contamination of ground water etc etc.
then if it damages the runway who will pay for it getting fixed cause they can't just get the council tar wagon round to fill in the damage. And as I know your reading this do check because the tarmac of the runway is different to roads.
So its proberly going to cost more than the total revenue off big fancy aircraft for the next 5-10 years getting rid of the old lines and getting the new ones.
And two council deptments interacting with each other is always rife with problems. If it would have been a private booking they would have done it on over time so it would have been done and dusted with in a week.
Then nodoudt there are a heap of rules about having a lorry which for all intents and purposes is a large bomb full of gas etc airside. Unfortunately the blokes that drive it have been working for the council for the last 25 years and there are maybe issues getting them CRC checked for airport pass.
Then there will be SEPA involved and a risk assesment of contamination of ground water etc etc.
then if it damages the runway who will pay for it getting fixed cause they can't just get the council tar wagon round to fill in the damage. And as I know your reading this do check because the tarmac of the runway is different to roads.
So its proberly going to cost more than the total revenue off big fancy aircraft for the next 5-10 years getting rid of the old lines and getting the new ones.
Last edited by mad_jock; 8th Jul 2011 at 09:46.
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Realistically Helen it doesn't have a chance in hell in its current form.
You have the majority of the customer base are actively avoiding the place.
You have stupid rules which don't allow passing traffic in.
You have a mindset of MORing the customers for the slightest infringements of the bizzare rules that only Oban has. Not that I might add that MORing anyone actually does anything apart from creating paper work for the person filling it in.
The sad thing is that the aviators in scotland want to use the place. They won't in the current form.
Yes you have a whole load of supporters, but they make a living off the place and a whole load of detractors who oban needs to use the place and get the money out of our pockets.
So you see its stuffed.
You have the majority of the customer base are actively avoiding the place.
You have stupid rules which don't allow passing traffic in.
You have a mindset of MORing the customers for the slightest infringements of the bizzare rules that only Oban has. Not that I might add that MORing anyone actually does anything apart from creating paper work for the person filling it in.
The sad thing is that the aviators in scotland want to use the place. They won't in the current form.
Yes you have a whole load of supporters, but they make a living off the place and a whole load of detractors who oban needs to use the place and get the money out of our pockets.
So you see its stuffed.
Last edited by mad_jock; 8th Jul 2011 at 13:22.
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The problem is that the airfield (not "airport", airfield, there is a difference) is run by the council. Councils generally are not good at all at running very many things. And they certainly wouldn't know how to operate an aerodrome properly.
Were it handed over to another operator with half a scooby doo about how to run an airfield business would probably pick up substantially.
Petty arguments, the millstones of politics & local government and zealousness with regards to enforcing operating procedures (MORs etc.) have damaged Oban's reputation, which also damages business.
There is also the sad fact of political egoism - shared among many airfield operators - that the operator (A&B Council) cannot accept that Oban is not an Intergalactic Spaceport, it never will be and it is "merely" a small General Aviation airfield (and a damn fine one at that) and that its clientelle will never move beyond private singles/twins and the occassional smallest of exec turboprops/jets (with the odd commercial inter-island light twin every now and then). If the operators understood and accepted that and focussed on attracting business from this group instead of trying to mould it into some sort of mini-Heathrow then things would look very bright indeed for Oban.
Smithy
Were it handed over to another operator with half a scooby doo about how to run an airfield business would probably pick up substantially.
Petty arguments, the millstones of politics & local government and zealousness with regards to enforcing operating procedures (MORs etc.) have damaged Oban's reputation, which also damages business.
There is also the sad fact of political egoism - shared among many airfield operators - that the operator (A&B Council) cannot accept that Oban is not an Intergalactic Spaceport, it never will be and it is "merely" a small General Aviation airfield (and a damn fine one at that) and that its clientelle will never move beyond private singles/twins and the occassional smallest of exec turboprops/jets (with the odd commercial inter-island light twin every now and then). If the operators understood and accepted that and focussed on attracting business from this group instead of trying to mould it into some sort of mini-Heathrow then things would look very bright indeed for Oban.
Smithy
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cs- Agreed, but............
A 'business' requires sales. Sales requires a strategy. A strategy then requires marketing. A successful business requires PEOPLE. Oban unfortunately, does not have many people. Nor the surrounding area.
A private operator therefore would struggle to make a commercial success of the 'AIRFIELD'. The problem.
Can it be gifted to an operator?? Not sure.
Can it exist as an airfield? Not sure, unless someone writes off the debt. Can this happen............
Need to go and figure this out over a beer
A 'business' requires sales. Sales requires a strategy. A strategy then requires marketing. A successful business requires PEOPLE. Oban unfortunately, does not have many people. Nor the surrounding area.
A private operator therefore would struggle to make a commercial success of the 'AIRFIELD'. The problem.
Can it be gifted to an operator?? Not sure.
Can it exist as an airfield? Not sure, unless someone writes off the debt. Can this happen............
Need to go and figure this out over a beer
Mad Jock
I'm not sure whether it is your use of English or whether you think I have a vested interest in Oban. If it is the latter, I can assure you that I haven't! I just find it sad that there is so much pathetic, mischievous sniping about the place. Like I said, give it a chance!!
I'm not sure whether it is your use of English or whether you think I have a vested interest in Oban. If it is the latter, I can assure you that I haven't! I just find it sad that there is so much pathetic, mischievous sniping about the place. Like I said, give it a chance!!
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Fair points maxred, but I still think perhaps the coonsil got ideas far and away above their station when they decided to take the place on and develop it.
Oban seemed to be doing not too badly for itself until the current lot came along with their visions. The fact is it was a flawed idea from the start.
Oban is too remote for any practical commercial aviation use - as you say, not enough people... also the airfield (sic) is a small GA aerodrome without the space/facilities for commercial operations. You could put what you like in. ILS, Radar, full ATSU, it simply would never work. With circa 4000 feet of tarmac, a small apron and no room for any expansion, not to mention the low local population density, realistically, would you ever be able to run commercial flights from that?
The plan had no logic and was completely unworkable from the start.
There again however, from a private & business flying perspective, things are a totally different ball game. The airfield is mere minutes away from Oban itself, a popular tourist destination, and a stepping stone to the Highlands & Islands - again popular with private aviators. The airfield itself is in a lovely location. Oban was always a good fuel stop before going further North or West. The A83 runs right past the entrance. For someone doing business on the West Coast and using a light single/twin it would be ideal.
Not much money to be made from private aviation? Hmm, moot point, there again if Oban was primarily marketed at the groups mentioned above, it could be a useful little enterprise. If it was run as a GA airfield, with minimal overheads and no political interference...
Smithy
Oban seemed to be doing not too badly for itself until the current lot came along with their visions. The fact is it was a flawed idea from the start.
Oban is too remote for any practical commercial aviation use - as you say, not enough people... also the airfield (sic) is a small GA aerodrome without the space/facilities for commercial operations. You could put what you like in. ILS, Radar, full ATSU, it simply would never work. With circa 4000 feet of tarmac, a small apron and no room for any expansion, not to mention the low local population density, realistically, would you ever be able to run commercial flights from that?
The plan had no logic and was completely unworkable from the start.There again however, from a private & business flying perspective, things are a totally different ball game. The airfield is mere minutes away from Oban itself, a popular tourist destination, and a stepping stone to the Highlands & Islands - again popular with private aviators. The airfield itself is in a lovely location. Oban was always a good fuel stop before going further North or West. The A83 runs right past the entrance. For someone doing business on the West Coast and using a light single/twin it would be ideal.
Not much money to be made from private aviation? Hmm, moot point, there again if Oban was primarily marketed at the groups mentioned above, it could be a useful little enterprise. If it was run as a GA airfield, with minimal overheads and no political interference...
Smithy
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Use of english.
And its not intended to be sniping.
Its meant to be out and out ripping the piss out of stupidity and incompetence.
Its hardly my fault there is such an abundance of material.
And give them a chance of what?. Pissing yet more tax payers money up the wall? If we don't highlight when things are stupid it will never change.
I bet most councillers have this thread book marked, if they believed everything they were told through official channels they might actually think things are great at Oban.
Smithy has it right. And the only way to make any money is not open to them which is the fuel.
And its not intended to be sniping.
Its meant to be out and out ripping the piss out of stupidity and incompetence.
Its hardly my fault there is such an abundance of material.
And give them a chance of what?. Pissing yet more tax payers money up the wall? If we don't highlight when things are stupid it will never change.
I bet most councillers have this thread book marked, if they believed everything they were told through official channels they might actually think things are great at Oban.
Smithy has it right. And the only way to make any money is not open to them which is the fuel.