Oban/Glenforsa News
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New readers can start here:
Pompeypaul,
I’m not saying this is all true, but it is a summary of what lies in the previous pages. It may well be true but in order to keep the lawyers at bay, let me just clarify, it’s just what I read here and in the papers and from the Council’s own Internal Audit Report.
Many years ago, the West of Scotland had a few very nice small airfields, which pretty much ran themselves, and everyone was happy.
Then the Council got involved, spent ****loads of other people's money and cocked it up big time. The plan was to make the airport into a proper travel facility for kids living on the islands to travel by plane to school on the mainland.
They applied for licence they don't need. Had a tower built facing the wrong way, which wouldn't matter if it had windows all the way round like most towers, but...............
The contract period for the Oban airport terminal building extended well
beyond that envisaged at the tender stage and beyond the period after an
extension of time was granted. This was due to additional work required to
accommodate changes to the Control Tower.
Then they bought a Fire Engine that is too big to go in the Garage for it, and that meant they could not get a licence.
Three suppliers returned tenders for the Oban Airport fire and rescue vehicles;
the lowest was not considered because Strategic Finance was not satisfied as
to their financial standing. The second lowest was discounted as the tender
was non compliant. The accepted tender was £53k. more expensive than the
lowest compliant tender. The accepted supplier failed to meet his contractual
obligations and the contract was terminated in April 2007. Recovery of monies
paid to the supplier in the sum of £161,280 under this contract is being
pursued by Legal and Protective Services but remains unrecovered as of the
date of this report.
With hindsight it may have been worth the risk to have accepted the lowest
tenderer (discounted on basis of financial standing) No risk assessment of
this possible action was carried out at the time. Irrespective of the accepted
suppliers ultimate performance £53k. may have been saved under carefully
managed circumstances. Perhaps where substantial savings can be achieved
consideration should be given to suspending Standing Orders under
controlled conditions.
The specification for 2 rescue and fire fighting vehicles at Oban airport
prepared by external consultants required “Landrover” type chassis and ABS
braking. However the fact that Landrover do not fit ABS braking on their
chassis resulted in the recommendation of the vehicle body being constructed
on a relatively untried chassis. There appears to have been no attempt by the
external consultants to verify that Angloco had worked previously with a
Breamach Chassis.
The vehicles were due for delivery from Angloco in Mid January 2007.
Following a pre build meeting in July 2006 attended by the external
consultants and an unsatisfactory pre delivery inspection by the Council’s
Senior Airport Fire Officer in November 2006, the inspection trip to verify
achievement of specification took place in March 2007 and was carried out by
the Council’s Senior Airport Fire Officer, during which major performance nonconformities were identified.
They got a construction firm in to build a runway, and destroyed the road to the airport by doing so, which meant spending more money rebuilding the road.
A very large quantity of aggregate material was required to be transported across Coll to the airfield site and in the process extensive damage was incurred on the island road. While the contract sum included an allowance (approx. 7.5%) for temporary road repairs the actual cost was hugely in excess of this with temporary repairs costing some £190k. and permanent
reinstatement some £650k. It was considered that the allowance in the contract would cover temporary and permanent repairs to the equivalent of 1.5 kilometres when in fact some 8.5 kilometres were permanently reinstated.
They started all this when they had sitting tenants on the airfield, with a 25 year lease. Having told the CAA that the council controlled the airfield, they then found out that the tenants were not happy with some changes and refused to go along with them. After years of arrive and fly, the locals were told to report to the main building, sign in, wear a hi viz, only walk on the path, call for startup, pay landing fees before speaking to the refueller man, the list of changes (to a system that worked fine) is huge and entertaining.
As a result of what might be called Civil Disobedience by the locals, the CAA refuse to allow the airport to use the entire runway, so the School Plane can't operate. The council have no money to pay the operator anyway and even if they had a full runway to play with, they can't get a company interested in doing the flights without a huge subsidy. Who'd have thought that would happen?
The locals take the Council to court, and the law sides with the locals but still the Council persist in trying to run the show.
To bring you up to date, the business case that was the basis for the 9 million quid, at least, that the council spent on this, has proven to be what lots of us could see from the start...pish.
People have been promised jobs that were made of straw and now have been made redundant. The proposed, "fly the kids to school" plan has never been in any danger of working out.
I’m not saying this is all true, but it is a summary of what lies in the previous pages. It may well be true but in order to keep the lawyers at bay, let me just clarify, it’s just what I read here and in the papers and from the Council’s own Internal Audit Report.
Many years ago, the West of Scotland had a few very nice small airfields, which pretty much ran themselves, and everyone was happy.
Then the Council got involved, spent ****loads of other people's money and cocked it up big time. The plan was to make the airport into a proper travel facility for kids living on the islands to travel by plane to school on the mainland.
They applied for licence they don't need. Had a tower built facing the wrong way, which wouldn't matter if it had windows all the way round like most towers, but...............
The contract period for the Oban airport terminal building extended well
beyond that envisaged at the tender stage and beyond the period after an
extension of time was granted. This was due to additional work required to
accommodate changes to the Control Tower.
Then they bought a Fire Engine that is too big to go in the Garage for it, and that meant they could not get a licence.
Three suppliers returned tenders for the Oban Airport fire and rescue vehicles;
the lowest was not considered because Strategic Finance was not satisfied as
to their financial standing. The second lowest was discounted as the tender
was non compliant. The accepted tender was £53k. more expensive than the
lowest compliant tender. The accepted supplier failed to meet his contractual
obligations and the contract was terminated in April 2007. Recovery of monies
paid to the supplier in the sum of £161,280 under this contract is being
pursued by Legal and Protective Services but remains unrecovered as of the
date of this report.
With hindsight it may have been worth the risk to have accepted the lowest
tenderer (discounted on basis of financial standing) No risk assessment of
this possible action was carried out at the time. Irrespective of the accepted
suppliers ultimate performance £53k. may have been saved under carefully
managed circumstances. Perhaps where substantial savings can be achieved
consideration should be given to suspending Standing Orders under
controlled conditions.
The specification for 2 rescue and fire fighting vehicles at Oban airport
prepared by external consultants required “Landrover” type chassis and ABS
braking. However the fact that Landrover do not fit ABS braking on their
chassis resulted in the recommendation of the vehicle body being constructed
on a relatively untried chassis. There appears to have been no attempt by the
external consultants to verify that Angloco had worked previously with a
Breamach Chassis.
The vehicles were due for delivery from Angloco in Mid January 2007.
Following a pre build meeting in July 2006 attended by the external
consultants and an unsatisfactory pre delivery inspection by the Council’s
Senior Airport Fire Officer in November 2006, the inspection trip to verify
achievement of specification took place in March 2007 and was carried out by
the Council’s Senior Airport Fire Officer, during which major performance nonconformities were identified.
They got a construction firm in to build a runway, and destroyed the road to the airport by doing so, which meant spending more money rebuilding the road.
A very large quantity of aggregate material was required to be transported across Coll to the airfield site and in the process extensive damage was incurred on the island road. While the contract sum included an allowance (approx. 7.5%) for temporary road repairs the actual cost was hugely in excess of this with temporary repairs costing some £190k. and permanent
reinstatement some £650k. It was considered that the allowance in the contract would cover temporary and permanent repairs to the equivalent of 1.5 kilometres when in fact some 8.5 kilometres were permanently reinstated.
They started all this when they had sitting tenants on the airfield, with a 25 year lease. Having told the CAA that the council controlled the airfield, they then found out that the tenants were not happy with some changes and refused to go along with them. After years of arrive and fly, the locals were told to report to the main building, sign in, wear a hi viz, only walk on the path, call for startup, pay landing fees before speaking to the refueller man, the list of changes (to a system that worked fine) is huge and entertaining.
As a result of what might be called Civil Disobedience by the locals, the CAA refuse to allow the airport to use the entire runway, so the School Plane can't operate. The council have no money to pay the operator anyway and even if they had a full runway to play with, they can't get a company interested in doing the flights without a huge subsidy. Who'd have thought that would happen?
The locals take the Council to court, and the law sides with the locals but still the Council persist in trying to run the show.
To bring you up to date, the business case that was the basis for the 9 million quid, at least, that the council spent on this, has proven to be what lots of us could see from the start...pish.
People have been promised jobs that were made of straw and now have been made redundant. The proposed, "fly the kids to school" plan has never been in any danger of working out.
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Airpolice
Thanks for synopsis, but have I missed something? Wasn't there a case where one of the tenants (a club) built a fence across the end of the runway, precluding it's use for larger aircraft.
Are we to read into your piece that had the Council not got involved at all, everything in the garden would have been lovely, with all the various tenants co-operating beautifully?
It would appear that £9m would have been saved and the road to the airfield would have survived. Have I got the correct message?
Are we to read into your piece that had the Council not got involved at all, everything in the garden would have been lovely, with all the various tenants co-operating beautifully?
It would appear that £9m would have been saved and the road to the airfield would have survived. Have I got the correct message?
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Not quite:
The fence was built NEAR the runway. On a piece of ground the club are legally entitled to build a fence. If the Council had realised that, they might have sought to change the conditions of tenancy before telling the CAA they were in control of things, or at least accepted the need to work WITH the people who fly the aeroplanes.
As for
My suspicion is that we'd actually be somewhere in between that and where we are now. I'm basing that notion on "The Story" of Oban Airport is all about what a cluster**** the Council have made of this. I don't recall reading loads of stories in the press about how bad things were up there until they started this over ambitious throw away the money scheme.
Even their own Internal Audit people slated the "management" of the project.
Compare the situation at Oban with Cumbernauld. The landing fees at each field don't cover the cost of operating an airfield. Cumbernauld survives because it is a commercial operation, renting out hangar space and providing commercial services. Oban gets much better Reception, Fire and Fiso services because the local authority provide them from taxpayer funds.
I don't think it's too much to ask for the services to be provided in a manner that suits the users, otherwise why bother?
Let's imagine how much use there might be for a council funded, floodlight equipped, astro turf, 5 a side pitch with changing rooms and showers, where you need to wear team strips, no shouting allowed, and you need to have a council supplied Ref to administer the game. Even if it was cheap, do you really think people would be using it?
The fence was built NEAR the runway. On a piece of ground the club are legally entitled to build a fence. If the Council had realised that, they might have sought to change the conditions of tenancy before telling the CAA they were in control of things, or at least accepted the need to work WITH the people who fly the aeroplanes.
As for
Are we to read into your piece that had the Council not got involved at all, everything in the garden would have been lovely, with all the various tenants co-operating beautifully?
It would appear that £9m would have been saved and the road to the airfield would have survived. Have I got the correct message?
It would appear that £9m would have been saved and the road to the airfield would have survived. Have I got the correct message?
Even their own Internal Audit people slated the "management" of the project.
Compare the situation at Oban with Cumbernauld. The landing fees at each field don't cover the cost of operating an airfield. Cumbernauld survives because it is a commercial operation, renting out hangar space and providing commercial services. Oban gets much better Reception, Fire and Fiso services because the local authority provide them from taxpayer funds.
I don't think it's too much to ask for the services to be provided in a manner that suits the users, otherwise why bother?
Let's imagine how much use there might be for a council funded, floodlight equipped, astro turf, 5 a side pitch with changing rooms and showers, where you need to wear team strips, no shouting allowed, and you need to have a council supplied Ref to administer the game. Even if it was cheap, do you really think people would be using it?
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A fine and thorough summary of teh past three years and 46 pages airpolice. Perhaps you could write a book or short film about it - "Oban Airport (sic) and a Coonsil: How to compound a catastrophe".
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A cast of thousands
Participant:Actor:In the style of.
Paul Keegan:John Michie (D.I Ross)
Peter Jackson:Steve Coogan (Alan Partridge)
Andy Law:Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean)
Internal Auditor:Liam Neeson (Rob Roy)
CEO of Highland Airways:Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid)
Visiting Pilot:John Cleese (Basil Fawlty)
Any more suggestions?
May2008 Press release:
Argyll and Bute Council’s Transportation Spokesperson, Councillor Duncan MacIntyre, said: “Things are moving forward nicely, and we are now able to clearly see a successful conclusion to the project, which will see scheduled flights from Oban to Coll, Colonsay and Tiree through a contract with Highland Airways and support from the Scottish Government.
“These flights will allow school pupils from the islands to spend weekends with their families and provide a fast alternative to the existing ferry services for residents, businesses and visitors alike.”
Councillor MacIntyre also paid tribute to the Project Development Manager, Peter Jackson, who is leaving to take up a new post elsewhere. Councillor MacIntyre said: “The Council would not have managed to take the project this far without Peter’s input, and, on behalf of the Council, I would like to offer him our sincere thanks and wish him well in his future career.”
Paul Keegan:John Michie (D.I Ross)
Peter Jackson:Steve Coogan (Alan Partridge)
Andy Law:Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean)
Internal Auditor:Liam Neeson (Rob Roy)
CEO of Highland Airways:Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid)
Visiting Pilot:John Cleese (Basil Fawlty)
Any more suggestions?
May2008 Press release:
Argyll and Bute Council’s Transportation Spokesperson, Councillor Duncan MacIntyre, said: “Things are moving forward nicely, and we are now able to clearly see a successful conclusion to the project, which will see scheduled flights from Oban to Coll, Colonsay and Tiree through a contract with Highland Airways and support from the Scottish Government.
“These flights will allow school pupils from the islands to spend weekends with their families and provide a fast alternative to the existing ferry services for residents, businesses and visitors alike.”
Councillor MacIntyre also paid tribute to the Project Development Manager, Peter Jackson, who is leaving to take up a new post elsewhere. Councillor MacIntyre said: “The Council would not have managed to take the project this far without Peter’s input, and, on behalf of the Council, I would like to offer him our sincere thanks and wish him well in his future career.”
The truth behind the jammy dodgers
Google revealed the power of the jammy dodger
Jammie Dodgers are biscuits filled with jam. The Eleventh Doctor temporarily fooled the Daleks into thinking one was a self-destruct button for the TARDIS. When the Daleks discovered his deception, the Doctor ate the Jammie Dodger
So that solves the mystery, someone pressed a jammy dodger biscuit and caused the self destruction of Oban International Airport
Jammie Dodgers are biscuits filled with jam. The Eleventh Doctor temporarily fooled the Daleks into thinking one was a self-destruct button for the TARDIS. When the Daleks discovered his deception, the Doctor ate the Jammie Dodger
So that solves the mystery, someone pressed a jammy dodger biscuit and caused the self destruction of Oban International Airport
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Participant:Actor:In the style of.
Paul Keegan:John Michie (D.I Ross)
Peter Jackson:Steve Coogan (Alan Partridge)
Andy Law:Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean)
Internal Auditor:Liam Neeson (Rob Roy)
CEO of Highland Airways:Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid)
Visiting Pilot:John Cleese (Basil Fawlty)
Any more suggestions?
Paul Keegan:John Michie (D.I Ross)
Peter Jackson:Steve Coogan (Alan Partridge)
Andy Law:Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean)
Internal Auditor:Liam Neeson (Rob Roy)
CEO of Highland Airways:Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid)
Visiting Pilot:John Cleese (Basil Fawlty)
Any more suggestions?
Visiting Yak drivers: Dastardly & Muttley
Visiting Nanchang drivers: Ant & Dec
Thread Starter
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Oban Follies
There seems to be a definite tendency of 'humour creep' appearing in this thread.
Contributors are reminded that 'aving a larf' at the councils expense can lead to expensive and protracted legal proceedings which will achieve absolutely nothing.
WW
Contributors are reminded that 'aving a larf' at the councils expense can lead to expensive and protracted legal proceedings which will achieve absolutely nothing.
WW
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'aving a larf' at the councils expense can lead to expensive and protracted legal proceedings which will achieve absolutely nothing
NS
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If a film is to be made being Scottish it must by default include Billy Connolly. Though what role Big Yin would play in said saga I don't know.An appropriate title tune would be "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" by Tears For Fears. Or perhaps a re-write, "Everybody Wants To Rule The Airport". Apologies to Roland Orzabal.On a serious note, is there still no news on the future of the airfield?Smithy
Last edited by Captain Smithy; 27th Apr 2011 at 19:23. Reason: Syntax and punctuation fecked up by forum software; what the f eck's going on with PPRuNE these days???
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Worth pointing out that the projects at Oban, Coll and Colonsay Airports
were lead by Peter Jackson.
see aerodromelicensingsupport - Personal Profile
were lead by Peter Jackson.
see aerodromelicensingsupport - Personal Profile
Peter R Jackson, Director
Aerodrome Licensing Support Limited
Peter has been involved with the aviation industry since 1969 when he joined BOAC as a commercial pilot. During a flying career spanning some thirty years he accumulated in excess of 15,000 flying hours. He worked for British Airways, Air Lanka, Gulf Air and Singapore Airlines and flew aircraft such as the VC10, L1011-TriStar and Boeing 747-200/300.
In 1997 he joined the UK Civil Aviation Authority as an Aerodrome Inspector and was responsible for comprehensive audits at aerodromes as diverse as London Gatwick and Southport Beach. He designed the initial training programme for Aerodrome Inspectors.
Peter joined Coventry Airport as Airport Director in 1999 - a post that he held until 2005. During this period he devised and implemented the safety management system.
In 2006 Peter joined Argyll and Bute Council as Airport Development Manager and recruited and lead the team that successfully achieved new Aerodrome Licences for Oban, Coll and Colonsay Airports. He wrote the Aerodrome Manual procedures, safety management system and successfully achieved Air Navigation Service Provider status for the Council.
Peter rejoined Coventry Airport in 2008 and introduced a quality management system and revised the safety management system, with particular emphasis on hazard identification and risk analysis. He was invited to return because of significant proven airport operations and strategic management experience together with a proven track record of successful project management.
Aerodrome Licensing Support Limited was founded in April 2009.
Aerodrome Licensing Support Limited
Peter has been involved with the aviation industry since 1969 when he joined BOAC as a commercial pilot. During a flying career spanning some thirty years he accumulated in excess of 15,000 flying hours. He worked for British Airways, Air Lanka, Gulf Air and Singapore Airlines and flew aircraft such as the VC10, L1011-TriStar and Boeing 747-200/300.
In 1997 he joined the UK Civil Aviation Authority as an Aerodrome Inspector and was responsible for comprehensive audits at aerodromes as diverse as London Gatwick and Southport Beach. He designed the initial training programme for Aerodrome Inspectors.
Peter joined Coventry Airport as Airport Director in 1999 - a post that he held until 2005. During this period he devised and implemented the safety management system.
In 2006 Peter joined Argyll and Bute Council as Airport Development Manager and recruited and lead the team that successfully achieved new Aerodrome Licences for Oban, Coll and Colonsay Airports. He wrote the Aerodrome Manual procedures, safety management system and successfully achieved Air Navigation Service Provider status for the Council.
Peter rejoined Coventry Airport in 2008 and introduced a quality management system and revised the safety management system, with particular emphasis on hazard identification and risk analysis. He was invited to return because of significant proven airport operations and strategic management experience together with a proven track record of successful project management.
Aerodrome Licensing Support Limited was founded in April 2009.
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Peter Jackson
YOP - I do not think for one second that anyone is debating nor detracting from the abilities, nor credentials of Mr Peter Jackson. He appears to have delivered, the asset that he was employed to deliver. I was there to-day and it was beautiful, weather, airfield and facility.
The issue, and the subsequent humour, was in the manner the project commenced, the financing, followed by an abstract council who cannot manage, nor understand the facility they have created.
This has been done to death in previous pages.
The issue, and the subsequent humour, was in the manner the project commenced, the financing, followed by an abstract council who cannot manage, nor understand the facility they have created.
This has been done to death in previous pages.
"an abstract council who cannot manage, nor understand the facility they have created."
They knew they didn't know, (a la Donald Rumsfield) so they employed and trusted an expert - Mr Jackson.
They knew they didn't know, (a la Donald Rumsfield) so they employed and trusted an expert - Mr Jackson.
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Short questions needing short answers
Who "designed" the control tower, and what exactly were the issues that needed resolving?
Who chose the Land-Rover Chassis option and then the "too big" fire engine?
Who signed the CAA application saying A&BC had full control of the aerodrome?
How much, if any, of the £161,280 that was paid up front for two fire engines that were not delivered, has been recovered?
How much in total was paid to the two Airlines, despite no flying taking place?
AP
Who chose the Land-Rover Chassis option and then the "too big" fire engine?
Who signed the CAA application saying A&BC had full control of the aerodrome?
How much, if any, of the £161,280 that was paid up front for two fire engines that were not delivered, has been recovered?
How much in total was paid to the two Airlines, despite no flying taking place?
AP
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Stupid question
Sorry, can I ask a really stupid question. Whilst the actual fence is down, the runway incursion markers still indicate the restricted runway areas - big white X.
On arrival Wednesday, these were still in force. Do I have it wrong????
On arrival Wednesday, these were still in force. Do I have it wrong????