BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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Litebulbs
The way forward must surely be:
Bassa' current leadership to change in full, the current leadership accepting to take the blame for the current debacle in full
Bassa's new leadership to stop nonsense about wanting to being involved in any way in the management of BA and concentrating on negotiating reasonable rewards for new staff whilst maintaining WITHIN REASON the current rewards of current staff taking into account the state of the industry and it s changing needs
BA management to further improve it s open and honest modern style management and so slowly regain the confidence of all staff
(this in no way implies the company is not allowed to change it s opinion on issues affecting staff as and when the industry health state dictates)
Bassa' current leadership to change in full, the current leadership accepting to take the blame for the current debacle in full
Bassa's new leadership to stop nonsense about wanting to being involved in any way in the management of BA and concentrating on negotiating reasonable rewards for new staff whilst maintaining WITHIN REASON the current rewards of current staff taking into account the state of the industry and it s changing needs
BA management to further improve it s open and honest modern style management and so slowly regain the confidence of all staff
(this in no way implies the company is not allowed to change it s opinion on issues affecting staff as and when the industry health state dictates)
Carrier of choice
Can only speak for myself, but when deciding (early this year) on my carrier of choice to Oz in oct for daughter's wedding I specifically deselected BA due industry uncertainty.
Normally as a frequent SH, rare LH user, it's not all about cost. I compare carriers based on: departure/destination airfields (distance to drive this end, that end; car parking; ease of access), time of travel both ways, cost.
Normally as a frequent SH, rare LH user, it's not all about cost. I compare carriers based on: departure/destination airfields (distance to drive this end, that end; car parking; ease of access), time of travel both ways, cost.
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ChicoG
Absolutely correct. The current BASSA leadership will not let go until they take a torpedo below the waterline.
"Stand by Mr Fincastle - fire one!"
"Aye aye Sir - fire one - torpedo running. Impact at P plus 45."
Absolutely correct. The current BASSA leadership will not let go until they take a torpedo below the waterline.
"Stand by Mr Fincastle - fire one!"
"Aye aye Sir - fire one - torpedo running. Impact at P plus 45."
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I thought cabin crew were 'professionals'
When will cabin crew join the real world and have their performace assessed and be paid accordingly?
Surely the idea of a fixed rate for the job however well or badly done is very 19th century?
Courage Willie! Make them join the world the rest of us are (or were) in,
Surely the idea of a fixed rate for the job however well or badly done is very 19th century?
Courage Willie! Make them join the world the rest of us are (or were) in,
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Carrier of choice
I think this is a bit of a tangent for the thread, but heck here is my ore sticking in for what it’s worth.
For me, especially on SH, it’s about the airport. My disappointment that Coventry were ceasing the regular Spanish flights I had to take was huge. It was park, walk in, wave to security, board aircraft, and job done.
Compared to the completely hellish experience and hurry up and wait mentality of LHR and others where every single aspect of boarding is made as difficult and inefficient as possible this was bliss.
As for service on LH, BA can be the best AND the worst, there is no consistency whatsoever. Knowing a bit about the behind the scenes stuff in my view it’s all down to the attitude of the CSD during briefing. Get a stinker and the crew become equally so, get a good one and the example rubs off accordingly.
So, that in mind if I want good service I would pay to fly with an airline that I can be close to certain will provide it, equally if I’m thinking about cost I’ll go cheap knowing that I’ll be ignored all the way there. BA is a lucky dip.
For me, especially on SH, it’s about the airport. My disappointment that Coventry were ceasing the regular Spanish flights I had to take was huge. It was park, walk in, wave to security, board aircraft, and job done.
Compared to the completely hellish experience and hurry up and wait mentality of LHR and others where every single aspect of boarding is made as difficult and inefficient as possible this was bliss.
As for service on LH, BA can be the best AND the worst, there is no consistency whatsoever. Knowing a bit about the behind the scenes stuff in my view it’s all down to the attitude of the CSD during briefing. Get a stinker and the crew become equally so, get a good one and the example rubs off accordingly.
So, that in mind if I want good service I would pay to fly with an airline that I can be close to certain will provide it, equally if I’m thinking about cost I’ll go cheap knowing that I’ll be ignored all the way there. BA is a lucky dip.
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Backing BA
Served a purpose?
http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php...24#post5851124
Business is a harsh world. Or is PTC a deeply embedded BASSA stooge?!
http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php...24#post5851124
Business is a harsh world. Or is PTC a deeply embedded BASSA stooge?!
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Served a purpose?
http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php...24#post5851124
Business is a harsh world. Or is PTC a deeply embedded BASSA stooge?!
http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php...24#post5851124
Business is a harsh world. Or is PTC a deeply embedded BASSA stooge?!
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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From the CC thread
Some interesting things in that notice.
UNITE slap BASSA down
FROM UNITE HQ, yet another gaff from BASSA doh
Quote:
This Notice is given in accordance with the requirements imposed upon the Union by the
Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Only the Executive Council
can authorise industrial action and it can only do so after a secret postal ballot.
On 2 August 2010 a posting was published on the BASSA website entitled ‘Closing Window
Blinds at the End of Your Flight’. The posting asked cabin crew not to agree to close the
window blinds at the end of each flight. This posting could be taken as a call to take
industrial action. Cabin crew should ignore this posting and should close the window blinds
at the end of each flight as instructed and work normally.
The Executive Council has not authorised any industrial action by Unite the Union members
employed by the above company and this Notice relates to all and any calls, or threats of,
such action
FROM UNITE HQ, yet another gaff from BASSA doh
Quote:
This Notice is given in accordance with the requirements imposed upon the Union by the
Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Only the Executive Council
can authorise industrial action and it can only do so after a secret postal ballot.
On 2 August 2010 a posting was published on the BASSA website entitled ‘Closing Window
Blinds at the End of Your Flight’. The posting asked cabin crew not to agree to close the
window blinds at the end of each flight. This posting could be taken as a call to take
industrial action. Cabin crew should ignore this posting and should close the window blinds
at the end of each flight as instructed and work normally.
The Executive Council has not authorised any industrial action by Unite the Union members
employed by the above company and this Notice relates to all and any calls, or threats of,
such action
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Part of my thought relates to the discussions before Christmas that BASSA, after the problems of a few years ago, did not need Unite's permission to call a strike. this seems to refute this argument.
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My understanding is that after the 2007 strike BASSA changed its constitution so that a strike could be only be called off with the permission of BASSA (so Unite couldn't do a deal with the company without deferring to BASSA, which is what happened in 2007).
I don't think BASSA can start a ballot without permission from Unite.
I don't think BASSA can start a ballot without permission from Unite.
Last edited by LD12986; 5th Aug 2010 at 21:05.
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The Individual
Window Blinds.
The union have clearly had to repudiate the call from BASSA and are probably hoping an ex employee made the call.
As it is an addition to what is custom and practise, what would happen, as an individual who forgot or chose not to do it? Would it be refusing a reasonable instruction?
Now before everyone starts getting all Daily Mail on me, I am asking what legal challenge could be made.
Have a listen to the audio file on here regarding holiday pay and trade unions. Interesting HR speak (definitely non union) about the law.
XpertHR > Article > Podcast: Holiday pay; working with trade unions survey
The union have clearly had to repudiate the call from BASSA and are probably hoping an ex employee made the call.
As it is an addition to what is custom and practise, what would happen, as an individual who forgot or chose not to do it? Would it be refusing a reasonable instruction?
Now before everyone starts getting all Daily Mail on me, I am asking what legal challenge could be made.
Have a listen to the audio file on here regarding holiday pay and trade unions. Interesting HR speak (definitely non union) about the law.
XpertHR > Article > Podcast: Holiday pay; working with trade unions survey
Personally Litebulbs I was quite heartened by the Unite memo which seemed to me to spell out the situation succinctly to their members, and thus protecting them from possible sanction.
Whether their advice that failure to close the blinds may be classed as unprotected IA is correct or not is unclear but sounds plausible to an employment-law numpty like me.
If you think otherwise, what would you say were Unite's motives in the memo? Seems to me that they could only be to either protect their members (as they should) or to give BASSA a bloody nose.
Whether their advice that failure to close the blinds may be classed as unprotected IA is correct or not is unclear but sounds plausible to an employment-law numpty like me.
If you think otherwise, what would you say were Unite's motives in the memo? Seems to me that they could only be to either protect their members (as they should) or to give BASSA a bloody nose.
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The Individual
Litebulbs,
If somone was dismissed for "forgetting" or "choosing not to", and then they went to an employment tribunal, it would be the panel that finally decided whether it was a reasonable instruction or not. Without taking a management or Daily Mail stance, in this case, BASSA Admin would seem to be believe that it is not reasonable (in Employment law context), whereas Unite's position would seem to be that it is reasonable. (note, they make no suggestion that closing the blinds should be subject to a grievance procedure, failure to agree, etc.).
Additionally, an ET would look at each case on its merits (and presumably BA's own internal processes would do the same for the dismissal to be fair - if they didn't, it would be automatically un-fair, irrespective of reasonableness). For eg, was there a pattern of not doing it, did the individual state that they deliberately didn't do it, were there any extenuating cirumstances, etc. It is exactly the same with any disciplinary issue investigation. So there is no simple answer to the question.
FWIW, I can't see an argument that because it has been custom and practise not to close blinds, that therefore an instruction to do so is unreasonable is going to get anywhere.
nb what has a discussion about the very specific area of Illegal Deduction of Wages (which carries its own very particular set of case law and legislation) got to do with closing blinds ?
If somone was dismissed for "forgetting" or "choosing not to", and then they went to an employment tribunal, it would be the panel that finally decided whether it was a reasonable instruction or not. Without taking a management or Daily Mail stance, in this case, BASSA Admin would seem to be believe that it is not reasonable (in Employment law context), whereas Unite's position would seem to be that it is reasonable. (note, they make no suggestion that closing the blinds should be subject to a grievance procedure, failure to agree, etc.).
Additionally, an ET would look at each case on its merits (and presumably BA's own internal processes would do the same for the dismissal to be fair - if they didn't, it would be automatically un-fair, irrespective of reasonableness). For eg, was there a pattern of not doing it, did the individual state that they deliberately didn't do it, were there any extenuating cirumstances, etc. It is exactly the same with any disciplinary issue investigation. So there is no simple answer to the question.
FWIW, I can't see an argument that because it has been custom and practise not to close blinds, that therefore an instruction to do so is unreasonable is going to get anywhere.
nb what has a discussion about the very specific area of Illegal Deduction of Wages (which carries its own very particular set of case law and legislation) got to do with closing blinds ?
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The intellectual man's union leader?
We have become used to reading a mountain of puerile trash from Duncan Holley. I admit it has been quite entertaining reading the guy make a total fool of himself – a touch of the David Brents. Now the latest is, I think, quite the most ridiculous offering to date.
Nice cut and paste description of the US ideological issues in prosecuting the 2nd Vietnam War. Not a single lucid comment on why BASSA are unable to arrive at a ceasefire in their own - somewhat less grave but evidently just as ideological - conflict.
I would be most interested to see what the 100-odd intellectual IR experts of ‘letter to the Guardian’ fame have to say about it. I would say that this latest is a clear illustration of that vital piece of information that they were missing when they penned it - ie the man running BASSA has a kangaroo loose in his top paddock. Or maybe DH passes for the model of a good union leader – in the rarefied atmosphere of the IR intellectual's world?
Nice cut and paste description of the US ideological issues in prosecuting the 2nd Vietnam War. Not a single lucid comment on why BASSA are unable to arrive at a ceasefire in their own - somewhat less grave but evidently just as ideological - conflict.
I would be most interested to see what the 100-odd intellectual IR experts of ‘letter to the Guardian’ fame have to say about it. I would say that this latest is a clear illustration of that vital piece of information that they were missing when they penned it - ie the man running BASSA has a kangaroo loose in his top paddock. Or maybe DH passes for the model of a good union leader – in the rarefied atmosphere of the IR intellectual's world?
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However, it would not be a contractual obligation, exactly like the hot towels, so you would not be in breach, unless it could be proved that it was a reasonable action.
Do you think it is reasonable? I am sure if you asked someone walking down the street, that if he/she was asked to close a window blind by his boss, to aid in a potential cooling of a room, what would be his/her response?