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-   -   BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II (https://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/417709-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions-ii.html)

TightSlot 9th Jun 2010 18:43

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
 
As before........

Diplome 9th Jun 2010 19:10


So, was there anyone there? Did the two above notables turn up and, if so, did they say anything worthy/of note/sensible/true? (Delete as improbable).

Landroger, this comment made me smile.

I've done a few searches and found references to his remarks with a few quotes but nothing of substance.

Would be happy to re-search and provide you links.

Like you I have been listening for a message with solid information regarding direction. Perhaps the BASSA evening message recounting the thousands of people at Bedfont will provide us with some insight.

beamender99 9th Jun 2010 19:14

Len was seen today.
 
Acas and TUC attempt to avert new BA strikes | Business | The Guardian

Len was at Bedfont FC and appeared briefly on the Channel 4 news coverage.

In case any CC have not got the message there was a short clip of W Walsh saying his bit at the IATA get together.

Hipennine 9th Jun 2010 20:10

I'm surprised that nobody has yet commented on Mr Simpson's interview on Radio 4 this am. When asked what he was recommending for future action as the "leader", his response was to the effect that it wasn't for the leadership to support/recommend voting on any particular course of action, but for the union high-ups to follow what the members told them in any ballot. Read into that whatever you will !

west lakes 9th Jun 2010 21:09

There is a lot of talk about fear and bullying from both sides

Eddy in the staff only thread

Those being interviewed on Channel 4 who claim to live in a climate of fear and bullying, and then those like myself who see BA as a great place to work with some (in general) great people, enjoying great compensation and benefits.

I must be missing the bullying stuff somehow.....
On Saturday I was in London with some good friends and a few others, among them were two BA CC members, both non-strikers. One of them, for reasons known to herself and I, was careful: -
Not to reveal her Pprune name
Not to appear on any photos (except on her or my camera)

Yes she, to some degree, lives in fear, but is determined to carry on.

That is the effect of the BASSA "we're being bullied by BA" members

fincastle84 9th Jun 2010 21:20

Holley's latest
 

Right, before I start my last – for now – blog from Bedfont, it is best to warn you that I have had a drink or two. The atmosphere there was so fantastic, to be honest it was impossible not to linger and share a pint and bathe in all the warmth, camaraderie and shear emotion. Today saw the biggest crew room party of all time – we reckon, and this is not exaggeration, that at least 20% of the total BA crew population were at Bedfont today. The turnout was simply overwhelming and the march along the Bath Rd to Waterside was something that will go down in folklore. Pity the poor stewardess, who in her excitement, walked into a lamp post and ended up nursing the biggest black eye I have ever seen. Hard luck Ali – I hope your husband believes you!

Before I forget or the drink catches up with me, I have got to mention 4 crew who were there today who live in Edinburgh. They caught the 06:30 flight down to LGW, then bussed to Bedfont before standing on a picket line for 4 hours; they then bussed back to LGW to catch the late afternoon flight back to EDI. Why? They had heard so much about the Bedfont buzz they had to come see for themselves and they were so pleased they had – the only downside was they had paid full fare on BA. Their actions shame the Sausage Chips And BeanS.

And incredibly it seems you all have more stamina than the SWP, either that or they have given you up as a lost cause because they have not been seen at Bedfont for 2 days. Perhaps they are mobilising again at ACAS. Tony won’t be happy.

I have been asked to mention the two nuns who were waving vigorously as the open top bus did its circuit – they obviously have no time for Wee Willy either!

Also thank you for the yesterday’s whip round for Mr Dillon, the samosas man organised by Andrea. I have, thanks to your kind donations, 8 bottles of top quality scotch to give him which should just about last him until the next strike.

Lenny’s speech went down a bomb as did his pink shirt – and thanks to Ken Livingstone and John McDonnell for taking the trouble to visit.

While on the subject of pink – that was some display of solidarity. It is incredibly uplifting to see all the straight lads (and lasses) rallying to the cause and, if there is a broader “church” than the BASSA membership then I am unaware of it. I think that it is this diversity that is so remarkable – young old, straight gay, British foreign, you name it crew come in all colours, shapes and sizes (cue references to the Bedfont burger bulge) and yet today it was if we were all one. Don’t want to come over all spiritual or evangelical- especially when I have had a few – but I really mean it when I say how proud I felt tonight as Louise and I headed home to try and find our feral kids. Thanks for all your support. I would have looked a bit stupid standing in the burger queue by myself.

So the season has finally ended for Bedfont FC – it is time for the summer break - with matches again scheduled to start at the beginning of August. It is true we did not win the League, nor were we promoted but there again, neither have we been relegated! We live to fight another season and if we can persuade some new players to join our team in the summer perhaps we can push Bedfont to the top of the table.

Many of you probably don’t realise this but the last few months have really been ground breaking and historically important. We have already mounted one of the longest strikes in aviation history and we have taken on one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric and we are still standing strong, preparing for more. Many years from now you will look back on this summer and say “I am so glad and proud I did what I did”, I wonder if Willie Walsh will feel that same pride?

Tomorrow I have my first appeal against my sacking at Waterworld. I am not holding my breath as, all along, it has, imo been “pre-ordained”, but despite “squeezing tea-bags” for 34 years I feel no sorrow because the company I have left.
There is no mention of what happens next. What is happening about the next ballot? When will it be called, if ever, & on what subject will the CC be asked to vote?

It seems to me that Bassa are in total disarray, which is reinforced by the total silence from the usual Bassa contributors on the various forums.

I imagine that Mr Walsh will be sleeping very soundly tonight.

Landroger 9th Jun 2010 22:47

Are we talking about the same company?
 

We have already mounted one of the longest strikes in aviation history and we have taken on one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric and we are still standing strong, preparing for more. Many years from now you will look back on this summer and say “I am so glad and proud I did what I did”, I wonder if Willie Walsh will feel that same pride?

Tomorrow I have my first appeal against my sacking at Waterworld. I am not holding my breath as, all along, it has, imo been “pre-ordained”, but despite “squeezing tea-bags” for 34 years I feel no sorrow because the company I have left.
(My bold)

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this sort of purple prose exactly typifies the utterly confused, rather hysterical and completely direction-less thinking that BASSA have fomented, propagated and encouraged. Is there any wonder we don't get rational replies and fact filled statements from anyone in control in the Unite branch?


one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric
Excuse me? Are we seriously talking about the same company? I don't work for BA, but I read the posts of dozens; hundreds who do and the impression I get is absolutely not as DH describes it. Does anyone else recognise the company he is talking about? Perhaps he got confused with the North Korean Army? :ugh:


all along, it has, imo been “pre-ordained”
Oh yeah, right. BA are going to simply rubber stamp his sacking and hope no-one will notice or resort to law? The grapes, I fear, are a little sour.


I feel no sorrow because the company I have left
I think the chips and alcohol got to him here. :rolleyes: It simply doesn't make any sense. There should either be a bit in front of it or a bit behind it, but as it stands, it's even more incomprehensible than the majority of it. And BASSA CC believe every word this muppet expounds? Extraordinary. :ugh:

Roger.

harrypic 10th Jun 2010 01:58

Landroger
 
Someone posted an excellent post here, many many posts ago, on Cult behaviour....

You will never, ever, convince the hardcore Bassamentalists or change their views, no matter how logical, fact, true or expert your opinions are. The cult has told them what to beleive. So, dont even bother and waste the energy. Fortunately, some of the led lemmings are starting to think for themselves....

But, the fundamental problem was created through years and years of weak BA management, possibly, in the bad directionless old days, BASSA felt they had to take charge of IFCE with such weak mangement.....?

Now, there is a strong CEO who wants control of his company back......but BASSA got drunk on that previous, arguably, necessary power? Their big mistake is failing to yield to someone who, at last, they can hand over the reins to and pass the company back into compentant hands?

So there is no polarity in blame....

A bit of a devils advocate post......

ChicoG 10th Jun 2010 04:22


Len McCluskey, the assistant general secretary of Unite, told strikers at Heathrow airport on the last day of three five-day walkouts today that the union was "up for a rematch".
The losing fighter ALWAYS says that, doesn't he?

And, writing under a pseudonym, a "BA Long haul pilot" is quoted as saying: ""Having recently returned from a trip during the strike, what 'outsiders' can't see is the fear, intimidation and unsustainable conditions endured by those who are working."

He should have been more specific about who is doing the intimidation.

call100 10th Jun 2010 06:29

I fail to see how working staff are intimidated and bullied by striking cabin crew. They were not there by definition.
I don't think there is much truth from either camp. People will choose to believe whatever camp they follow.

Mariner9 10th Jun 2010 06:57

Duncan forgot to add...
 

Many of you probably don’t realise this but the last few months have really been ground breaking and historically important. We have already mounted one of the longest strikes in aviation history and we have taken on one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric and we are still standing strong, preparing for more.
Look what we have achieved in this Fight:
  • We have alienated the public and our fellow BA employees.
  • We have damaged the long term prospects of our employer which will adversely affect our future pay and conditions.
  • We failed to ground the airline.
  • The CSD's still have to work a bit harder.
  • The next BA offer was worse that just having the CSD work a bit harder.
  • The current BA offer is worse than that still.
  • We have lost Staff travel
  • We have lost weeks of salary and flying allowances.
  • By threatening further action we are putting BA into the position were they will likely have no option other than to dismiss us.

fincastle84 10th Jun 2010 07:25

Boyd on BBC 1
 
Some Unite person named Boyd was on BBC 1 @ 07.10 today. Yet again he gave no indication as to the date or subject for a further ballot.

Interestingly, even the BBC interviewer was very unsympathetic to Unite/ Bassa & quoted several emails from both the public & CC protesting against IA.

Methinks that the tide has turned decisively against the militants.:ok:

pwalhx 10th Jun 2010 07:48

I saw the interview too, he referred again to half empty planes and customers being flown on other airlines, I believe he quoted Virgin and BMI.

We ll I was booked on 4 flights in the strike period 3 off which were opereted by BA aircraft and all full and the other yes I was moved to BMI (not really relevant but the BMI flight was abou a 3rd full).

slf22 10th Jun 2010 08:08

From the other thread, posted by ottergirl

The new wording for the next phase of industrial action.
  • BA has shown a total disregard towards its collective agreements by using employees from other work areas within the Company to operate Worldwide and Eurofleet routes on reduced terms. This, along with the introduction of temporary cabin crew on terms and conditions which are contrary to those agreed within Worldwide and Eurofleet agreements, is totally unacceptable. The company’s actions have created an unworkable environment.
  • The removal of travel concessions from individuals who have exercised their right to participate in lawful strike action is viewed as vindictive and therefore totally unacceptable. Unite is seeking the full reinstatement of this important item immediately and without pre-condition.
  • We consider the disciplinary action taken against Unite members for various misdemeanours related to the current industrial dispute as vindictive, disproportionate and unnecessary. Unite is therefore seeking the withdrawal of all disciplinary measures administered to Unite members under those circumstances discussed during the recent negotiations.

So what say you IR legal eagles? High court trip?

RTR 10th Jun 2010 08:45

BASSA is clutching at straws
 

Many years from now you will look back on this summer and say “I am so glad and proud I did what I did”, I wonder if Willie Walsh will feel that same pride?
The answer is NO you won't - AND - YES I will.

The truth is that BASSA is no longer the force it was (if it ever was) and has shown such gross mis-management and foresight it now has to look inwards to see how far they have truly let their members down. To the detriment of its members it now has few, in any, alternatives to take a further stance on ST as just one example. They knew well that this was a perk and warned again and again that it would be taken from them. Fighting for it was NEVER an option, it was always there. So, when BASSA turned down perfectly acceptable offers and went on strike they shot themselves in the foot. I doubt that UNITE have ever come across a situation like that before. What a useless exercise that was and once again proved how silly and stupid they had been. UNITE then took the strike to a 'NEW' level - and changed the reason for striking for the return of ST! What a ridiculous thing to happen.

So now the union is clutching at straws. Inventing nasty little stories about BA bullying its staff while all the time it is they bullying their own members. Time after time they try to impress using the 'success' of the Bedfont fiasco. Claiming massive support by filling one bus or 300 or 400 hundred eating whatever DH can come up with. At best they were incentives paid for by DH at worst they were a pathetic attempt to persuade others to join in. For it to be effective there should have been 2000 or 3000+ there. Where were they? The press were never going to be interested in a group of cats posing as lions.

It is time to be realistic and accept that your gripes were badly mis-handled by your reps using dirty tactics that go back to the bad old days of unions. Since then the whole wicked world of the bad old unions has been to to sleep.

I sincerely hope that if BASSA has another ballot it it will fail. Simply because the guys and girls of BA are far far better than having out of date thinking by rabble rouser's representing them.

I truly wish the cc staff, and the whole of BA well. I know that it will come good if you all get out from under the power of self seeking, power hungry despots.

Good luck.

Mariner9 10th Jun 2010 09:16

To summarise Unite's reasons for the next proposed strikes for the three bullet points listed:

1. To prevent BA from ever again being in a position to defend itself against industrial action.

2. To prevent BA from ever again being in a position to give incentives to staff not to strike.

3. To allow staff to behave as they wish during IA without any possible recourse.


Does even the most blinkered BASSA member think BA will roll over and accept any of this? Do they intend to strike indefinately?

Diplome 10th Jun 2010 09:25

Mariner9:

No. 3 may be a bit of a problem for BASSA. If discussion regarding what some of these disciplinaries were really about becomes public it will remove much of BASSA's argument regarding who was bullying and bring to light for many in the public how outrageous and threatening some of the militants have been.

I notice in public statements that the disciplinary matters are always described to the press as "simply posting a comment on Facebook"...or "mostly trivial" and they never state what specifically was posted on Facebook, etc..

BASSA may have opened a can of worms with this request.

Snas 10th Jun 2010 09:27


So what say you IR legal eagles? High court trip?
Certainly.

The question is will BA take court action before any proposed strike commences to try and prevent it, or will they take action after it has started hoping to get a ruling against it which could result in strikes being considered an extension of the current dispute, and therefore unprotected strike action allowing BA far more freedom in their subsequent actions.

But I’m no eagle, more of a budgie I would suggest!

BetterByBoat 10th Jun 2010 09:49

I think an injuction to stop the strikes really just keeps the problem bubbling away so my guess would be the second option - wait for the strikes and take the unions to court for compensation first. If that battle is won then the strikers will by implication have been taking part in unprotected industrial action and have to face the consequences.

All of that of course assumes that BASSA \ Unite win a ballot for further strike action. By no means guaranteed.

fincastle84 10th Jun 2010 09:53

Whatever the issues, will the turkeys yet again vote for Christmas or will it eventually dawn on Bassa members that Mr Walsh is NOT going to surrender; indeed he is ever closer to a victory.


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