BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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k3lvc:
Could be. I found a Mr. Malone who is head of employment law at a solicitors' office so I'm sure there are more Malones out there.
The similarity between the blog post and the Union missive is interesting. Good find to whomever is responsible.
Could be. I found a Mr. Malone who is head of employment law at a solicitors' office so I'm sure there are more Malones out there.
The similarity between the blog post and the Union missive is interesting. Good find to whomever is responsible.
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Even though employment law is not my field, it is quite plain that what's on the blog (and quoted by Unite) is highly speculative and of very little legal value. If Unite's members are being misled by that into thinking that there is likely to be some legal recourse against BA in the future as a result of the removal of staff travel, then they are clutching at straws, not least because, if there is new EU legislation, it is very unlikely that it will have retrospective effect - so it won't help those strikers who have already lost their staff travel.
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Just asking
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4t2b:
The difference is that BA has no obligation to "publish" its offer. They can do so if they feel that it is to their benefit but their offer is not determinate on any other individual or groups' approval.
From what I understand Unite/BASSA have the offer in hand, have been issuing repeated commentary to their membership about their recommendations regarding the offer, but they still haven't submitted it to their membership for consideration.
Why the delay? I realize that the more militant membership will vote against the offer regardless of its content, but many members will want the opportunity to consider this offer and weigh the positives and negatives to themselves personally. This will be a serious decision for many individuals.
The difference is that BA has no obligation to "publish" its offer. They can do so if they feel that it is to their benefit but their offer is not determinate on any other individual or groups' approval.
From what I understand Unite/BASSA have the offer in hand, have been issuing repeated commentary to their membership about their recommendations regarding the offer, but they still haven't submitted it to their membership for consideration.
Why the delay? I realize that the more militant membership will vote against the offer regardless of its content, but many members will want the opportunity to consider this offer and weigh the positives and negatives to themselves personally. This will be a serious decision for many individuals.
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Diplome
So it is rumour/scuttlebutt then?
IMHO it would be suicidal to depart from the previously published position of "no return of ST" , why lay the company open to unrest further down the line?
UNLESS, someone is being being concillatory and applying the old riot control rule of never backing them into a corner from whence there is no escape?
So it is rumour/scuttlebutt then?
IMHO it would be suicidal to depart from the previously published position of "no return of ST" , why lay the company open to unrest further down the line?
UNLESS, someone is being being concillatory and applying the old riot control rule of never backing them into a corner from whence there is no escape?
The "offer"
BA do have an interesting issue with respect to the offer.
bassa might have, say, 60 % of BA CC as members. How should the other 40% of CC be consulted about the offer?
If I were in BA I would argue for the BA CC "managers" to start earning their money by pro-actively, but sensitively, communicating and "selling" the offer.
As HF14 has put it, it will be a difficlt "sell" but it is about time the CC management fraternity - including CSDs who are paid as managers - to earn their money and to replace the impact of bassa.
bassa might have, say, 60 % of BA CC as members. How should the other 40% of CC be consulted about the offer?
If I were in BA I would argue for the BA CC "managers" to start earning their money by pro-actively, but sensitively, communicating and "selling" the offer.
As HF14 has put it, it will be a difficlt "sell" but it is about time the CC management fraternity - including CSDs who are paid as managers - to earn their money and to replace the impact of bassa.
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Courtesy of ian100 at Flyertalk a message from BASSA issued yesterday. If it has been previously posted I will happily delete.
They don't sound optomistic.
They don't sound optomistic.
Time to wake up and smell the future...
During the 7 days of our industrial action, those that grasped the enormity of what we all face took action and came to Bedfont; those that didn’t went to work.
By "backing BA" it has allowed a change so big to come about right under people’s noses, that many people could not - or will not - simply believe it.
The nature of that change?
The culmination of a three-year plan, as reported in the Guardian to crush the union that protects you -that aim has now been all but achieved.
On Thursday of this week Duncan Holley, the secretary of our branch, is going to be dismissed over an on going disagreement with British Airways, over derostering for undertaking union duties on your behalf.
Today the few reps that attended a briefing from Tony Woodley heard an update on any progress he had made and to finalize arrangements on how your opinion could be sought via an electronic ballot. British Airways chose to not deroster any reps to attend and indeed insisted that any who were able to attend would have their basic salary deducted.
These are hardly the actions of a company seeking to achieve negotiated peace, instead they are designed to be as provocative and confrontational as possible.
They could not send a clearer signal of their intent, if they tried. At the same time they also have revealed that Branch Chair Lizanne Malone will also be the subject of a disciplinary along with Amicus Convenor Blair Veakins.
Without being rude if this does not tell you anything, then we may as well give up...and that means ALL of us.
We are now getting to the point where it is difficult to believe that we can ever find a solution to the current situation. Things now are so bad that they will simply never be the same again.
No matter how hard we try to negotiate to improve the situation, things just seem to go from bad to worse.
As you already know, we have been supporting Tony Woodley as he has tried to find a fair and reasonable solution and to bring a welcome peace within British Airways. To be fair, he has worked incredibly hard to try and make that happen. His intentions were honourable, and he did his best to obtain a proposal for you to consider. Later this week you will be asked your opinion via an on-line ballot.
Against this approach it would appear that determined elements within British Airways’ management, far from wishing to "meet us half way" and achieve any kind of resolution, simply appear determined to be as deliberately antagonistic as possible.
Crew members continue to be dismissed and others suspended as we try to find a solution to the outstanding fifty plus dispute related disciplinaries. The very reps that are working with Tony Woodley on the solution have been refused release to work on it. "Do it in your own time or don’t attend, your choice" was the BA flat response.
Until last week, we have not been approached or asked for an alleviation of any kind since summer 2009; we were simply not asked, they simply believed it is their right to break any rule they wished, when and wherever they wanted to. All agreements are now meaningless. As a result of the volcanic ash the disruption agreement was requested and happily and promptly given to assist in repatriating crew and passengers. Then, out of the blue an "alleviation" was requested to operate a Hong Kong service with reduced rest but with a threat "if you don’t give the alleviation, we will use strike breakers". The "threat" was unnecessary as a positive response was again given within the time scale.
A request to reduce rest on an ad-hoc basis for other "mercy" flights for the next two weeks was also asked for and in the circumstances would have been given.
Their recognition of this cooperation? To assemble a crew of "strike breakers" from retired crew and ground staff and operate the flight - 12 crew, 13 hours rest, £2.40 an hour.
Friday’s Delhi? Same again! A positioning "strike breaking volunteer crew" who would operate the return inbound flight, with just eight crew- they consisted of four ground staff, two temps. Two "normal crew" were called off QRS. These "real" crew were booked into economy, the volunteer/strike breakers? Club of course.
Over the entire weekend "strike breaking ground staff volunteers" were rostered in pairs to a wide number of flights, to fly with "real" crew.
Many of the Euro fleet crew who returned to base after being away up to twelve days, were then expected to report for duty the next day. BA were of the opinion that the crew had achieved the appropriate days off whilst marooned down route.
Quite simply this is how Bill Francis has been instructed to do business. If we are not all prepared to stand up for ourselves then we best all get used to it and quickly.
Temp crew and volunteers continue to fly along side regular crew, on a different agreement and on an hourly rate and different days off, while our own crew sit at home unused and on 24 hour availability.
If people don’t wake up and see what’s happening right under their noses and how the wording of this agreement is so important to them, then they never will. Bill Francis is building on his vision of the future and whether we like it or not, we are all going to be a part of it, one way or the other.
Your union has been effectively shut down now for months and if things do not change, will remain so. We no longer have any meetings with British airways on any subject. We no longer have a say or a voice. Our offices has been sealed closed and shut down and lets be honest here, so has your union.
Backing BA?
That’s exactly what some people have done; backed BA in their ambition to destroy their union and with it, any hope of their own future job security - if they do not wake up pretty soon, it will be too late.
During the last strike days, we even had the ludicrous scenario of people who had chosen to break the strike, ringing our emergency phones asking us to complain to BA that they, BA were breaking their agreement!
Is this really how out of touch some of our community have become?
Worried about new fleet? You should be - it’s growing right under your nose. So believe us when we say that if you don’t support your union now by remaining united, by standing firm to secure a meaningful deal the future looks very bleak. If an agreement cannot be reached then regrettably more strike dates will have to be announced. If we fail then the job as you know it is over.
At the end of the day, we represent you. If you’re not that bothered, fine, we will stop beating ourselves up trying to protect you from something that worryingly doesn’t seem to concern some of our community.
Please stop leaving it to those with the strength and courage to support themselves, their union and their colleagues. Thousands of you, our members, selflessly sacrificed their trips and their earnings - some people lost up to two weeks of basic pay and their staff travel for the good of others, not just themselves - and for that Unite is immensely proud and grateful for their sacrifice.
If a deal had been achieved, it would have been bought about by their bravery. If we don’t get a solution, then quite simply it will be because too many people "looked after themselves" and broke the strike and so encouraged your management to believe that this is "the way forward" and is acceptable to the crew community.
If you are not one of the brave crew who supported us at Bedfont, and by taking action then what did you do? Do you feel proud of yourself?
Bottom line?
Please Do your bit before it’s too late, or simply sit back and enjoy the ride, but remember this, it’s going to be a wild one. Our conscience is clear...is yours? We have screamed from the roof tops for a year, exactly what will happen to cabin crew in the future.
If this warning continues to fall on deaf ears, you won’t have to wait too long to see it become reality...just glance at your next crew list.
During the 7 days of our industrial action, those that grasped the enormity of what we all face took action and came to Bedfont; those that didn’t went to work.
By "backing BA" it has allowed a change so big to come about right under people’s noses, that many people could not - or will not - simply believe it.
The nature of that change?
The culmination of a three-year plan, as reported in the Guardian to crush the union that protects you -that aim has now been all but achieved.
On Thursday of this week Duncan Holley, the secretary of our branch, is going to be dismissed over an on going disagreement with British Airways, over derostering for undertaking union duties on your behalf.
Today the few reps that attended a briefing from Tony Woodley heard an update on any progress he had made and to finalize arrangements on how your opinion could be sought via an electronic ballot. British Airways chose to not deroster any reps to attend and indeed insisted that any who were able to attend would have their basic salary deducted.
These are hardly the actions of a company seeking to achieve negotiated peace, instead they are designed to be as provocative and confrontational as possible.
They could not send a clearer signal of their intent, if they tried. At the same time they also have revealed that Branch Chair Lizanne Malone will also be the subject of a disciplinary along with Amicus Convenor Blair Veakins.
Without being rude if this does not tell you anything, then we may as well give up...and that means ALL of us.
We are now getting to the point where it is difficult to believe that we can ever find a solution to the current situation. Things now are so bad that they will simply never be the same again.
No matter how hard we try to negotiate to improve the situation, things just seem to go from bad to worse.
As you already know, we have been supporting Tony Woodley as he has tried to find a fair and reasonable solution and to bring a welcome peace within British Airways. To be fair, he has worked incredibly hard to try and make that happen. His intentions were honourable, and he did his best to obtain a proposal for you to consider. Later this week you will be asked your opinion via an on-line ballot.
Against this approach it would appear that determined elements within British Airways’ management, far from wishing to "meet us half way" and achieve any kind of resolution, simply appear determined to be as deliberately antagonistic as possible.
Crew members continue to be dismissed and others suspended as we try to find a solution to the outstanding fifty plus dispute related disciplinaries. The very reps that are working with Tony Woodley on the solution have been refused release to work on it. "Do it in your own time or don’t attend, your choice" was the BA flat response.
Until last week, we have not been approached or asked for an alleviation of any kind since summer 2009; we were simply not asked, they simply believed it is their right to break any rule they wished, when and wherever they wanted to. All agreements are now meaningless. As a result of the volcanic ash the disruption agreement was requested and happily and promptly given to assist in repatriating crew and passengers. Then, out of the blue an "alleviation" was requested to operate a Hong Kong service with reduced rest but with a threat "if you don’t give the alleviation, we will use strike breakers". The "threat" was unnecessary as a positive response was again given within the time scale.
A request to reduce rest on an ad-hoc basis for other "mercy" flights for the next two weeks was also asked for and in the circumstances would have been given.
Their recognition of this cooperation? To assemble a crew of "strike breakers" from retired crew and ground staff and operate the flight - 12 crew, 13 hours rest, £2.40 an hour.
Friday’s Delhi? Same again! A positioning "strike breaking volunteer crew" who would operate the return inbound flight, with just eight crew- they consisted of four ground staff, two temps. Two "normal crew" were called off QRS. These "real" crew were booked into economy, the volunteer/strike breakers? Club of course.
Over the entire weekend "strike breaking ground staff volunteers" were rostered in pairs to a wide number of flights, to fly with "real" crew.
Many of the Euro fleet crew who returned to base after being away up to twelve days, were then expected to report for duty the next day. BA were of the opinion that the crew had achieved the appropriate days off whilst marooned down route.
Quite simply this is how Bill Francis has been instructed to do business. If we are not all prepared to stand up for ourselves then we best all get used to it and quickly.
Temp crew and volunteers continue to fly along side regular crew, on a different agreement and on an hourly rate and different days off, while our own crew sit at home unused and on 24 hour availability.
If people don’t wake up and see what’s happening right under their noses and how the wording of this agreement is so important to them, then they never will. Bill Francis is building on his vision of the future and whether we like it or not, we are all going to be a part of it, one way or the other.
Your union has been effectively shut down now for months and if things do not change, will remain so. We no longer have any meetings with British airways on any subject. We no longer have a say or a voice. Our offices has been sealed closed and shut down and lets be honest here, so has your union.
Backing BA?
That’s exactly what some people have done; backed BA in their ambition to destroy their union and with it, any hope of their own future job security - if they do not wake up pretty soon, it will be too late.
During the last strike days, we even had the ludicrous scenario of people who had chosen to break the strike, ringing our emergency phones asking us to complain to BA that they, BA were breaking their agreement!
Is this really how out of touch some of our community have become?
Worried about new fleet? You should be - it’s growing right under your nose. So believe us when we say that if you don’t support your union now by remaining united, by standing firm to secure a meaningful deal the future looks very bleak. If an agreement cannot be reached then regrettably more strike dates will have to be announced. If we fail then the job as you know it is over.
At the end of the day, we represent you. If you’re not that bothered, fine, we will stop beating ourselves up trying to protect you from something that worryingly doesn’t seem to concern some of our community.
Please stop leaving it to those with the strength and courage to support themselves, their union and their colleagues. Thousands of you, our members, selflessly sacrificed their trips and their earnings - some people lost up to two weeks of basic pay and their staff travel for the good of others, not just themselves - and for that Unite is immensely proud and grateful for their sacrifice.
If a deal had been achieved, it would have been bought about by their bravery. If we don’t get a solution, then quite simply it will be because too many people "looked after themselves" and broke the strike and so encouraged your management to believe that this is "the way forward" and is acceptable to the crew community.
If you are not one of the brave crew who supported us at Bedfont, and by taking action then what did you do? Do you feel proud of yourself?
Bottom line?
Please Do your bit before it’s too late, or simply sit back and enjoy the ride, but remember this, it’s going to be a wild one. Our conscience is clear...is yours? We have screamed from the roof tops for a year, exactly what will happen to cabin crew in the future.
If this warning continues to fall on deaf ears, you won’t have to wait too long to see it become reality...just glance at your next crew list.
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4t2B:
rumour or scuttlebutt? Who knows until BASSA sees fit to actually let their membership see the offer they keep talking about.
Ancient Observer:
Good point. A more proactive and positive participation by BA managers would be appropriate.
rumour or scuttlebutt? Who knows until BASSA sees fit to actually let their membership see the offer they keep talking about.
Ancient Observer:
Good point. A more proactive and positive participation by BA managers would be appropriate.
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Yes but we are SLF here not CC so we don't know the offer.
Going back to the union message, if the union had talked and maybe accepted the offer from a year ago then just maybe BA would not have needed to play hard ball now.
Going back to the union message, if the union had talked and maybe accepted the offer from a year ago then just maybe BA would not have needed to play hard ball now.
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The Taxman Cometh
If I were any BA employee I would be very concerned that a restitution of Staff Travel, as a condition, following negotiations with Unite could make it a contractual benefit and subject to Income Tax.
This would rather help wWW to achieve his aim of phasing it out, as well as causing massive problems to the CC Commuters. (Hope ex Spe3dyB reads this even if he can't comment).
This would rather help wWW to achieve his aim of phasing it out, as well as causing massive problems to the CC Commuters. (Hope ex Spe3dyB reads this even if he can't comment).
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re:
Shame the author can't even get the the name of the union correct. Unite is now "Unison"... 3rd paragraph
CLB Employment Solutions Blog British Airways and the cabin crew strike
No doubt Unison will...
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ST Restoration
Going by WW's score to date, I would say that the idea of WW offering to restore ST to those that went on strike etc., is purely part of the fantasy wish list from the union, BASSA or Unite.
WW has proved to be a man of his word, whenever he has stated that something would happen, given certain circumstances, it has happened and has been an action which there is a total refusal to reverse in any manner. Which in view of past history has got to be applied if BA are to regain control of their operation. Unfortunately BASSA never recognised this change in direction and even now does not appear to understand that the world has altered around them.
WW has proved to be a man of his word, whenever he has stated that something would happen, given certain circumstances, it has happened and has been an action which there is a total refusal to reverse in any manner. Which in view of past history has got to be applied if BA are to regain control of their operation. Unfortunately BASSA never recognised this change in direction and even now does not appear to understand that the world has altered around them.
Last edited by Entaxei; 28th Apr 2010 at 19:13. Reason: Spell - casting
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Sorry, but every strike up till this one, across the whole airline, not just CC, staff travel has been withdrawn and then given back in the settlement agreement, so no reason for CC to expect it to be any different this time.
As said before, this time the CEO was far more vocal re ST, and the permanent loss thereof, than before, but even so, I can see why CC thought it would be restored this time.
In fact, I am ambivalent re staff travel - suppose some time in the future a group of employees have a genuine grievance, which ultimately leads to a strike, there is now a precedent for them to lose ST, or at least seniority, it may not always be justified, even if this time BASSA have, effectively, created a situation where the loss of ST seems justified.
As said before, this time the CEO was far more vocal re ST, and the permanent loss thereof, than before, but even so, I can see why CC thought it would be restored this time.
In fact, I am ambivalent re staff travel - suppose some time in the future a group of employees have a genuine grievance, which ultimately leads to a strike, there is now a precedent for them to lose ST, or at least seniority, it may not always be justified, even if this time BASSA have, effectively, created a situation where the loss of ST seems justified.
Last edited by just an observer; 28th Apr 2010 at 20:05.
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Ignoring the salutation - I agree re your your 1st and 3rd para but am not totally convinced re your 2nd and 4th para.
I am speaking as one who enjoys staff travel via my spouse who is an employee (not CC)
I am speaking as one who enjoys staff travel via my spouse who is an employee (not CC)
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received earlier
All of us within British Airways were hoping to be in a position, to be
able to recommend, at long last, a deal that would bring about a welcome
return to normality for our airline.
This has not been possible. After a sensible pause for reflection from
both sides since the last days of industrial action, talks resumed
directly with our General Secretary Tony Woodley and British Airways CEO
Willie Walsh.
These concluded late yesterday evening and were unsuccessful.
Though the dispute was over imposition, British Airways insisted that any
settlement must include several new areas.
* New fleet
* Changes to the disciplinary, grievance and redeployment agreements
* A complete renegotiation of the trade union facilities agreement
* Two year pay freeze
* Two year capped pay deal
* Introduction of monthly travel payment
* Future promotion
* Route transfer procedure to new fleet
* Ops and choice
* New disruption agreement
Though not ideal, with good will on both sides this could have formed the
basis of
"A way forward"
The words were fairly broad and not particularly specific or detailed, as
it would require a huge leap of faith to entrust or guarantee the rest of
your flying career to "good will."
Your union was prepared to fulfill our half of the bargain but in the end
what was missing was the complete absence of any " Good will" on behalf of
British Airways.
Without that, it would be impossible to have the required faith in what
are essentially just words.
Actions speak far louder. A systematic insistence of zealously pursuing an
increasing number, now over fifty, dispute related disciplinaries and
applying disproportionately harsh sanctions - for trivial reasons. Along
side this an obvious desire to permanently "punish " all those, who
participated in a legal and lawful strike have become the stumbling
blocks.
How could we recommend, in good faith acceptance of a set of words, the
spirit of which has already been broken before the ink is dry on the
paper? We would be misleading you and were just not prepared to do that.
British Airways customers must ask why there are still on going threats to
their travel plans, essentially over punitive decisions our CEO opted to
take. If he had not chosen to take these actions, this dispute could well
have now been resolved.
It would be wise to reflect that for many in higher management the focus
appears to be on crushing cabin crew, rather than the business of running
an airline and carrying passengers. There simply is no sensible business
rationale to insist on enforcing decisions that will affect between 4000
and 5000 people permanently, unless it is over pride or a desire for
revenge. It simply does not make sense.
There will of course be an on line ballot to ask your views in the next
few days, but to be absolutely clear, we have no other choice but to join
both Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson in recommending that you join us in
rejecting this proposal .
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL
IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE OR CONTACT US
[email protected] (LHR)
[email protected] (LGW)
Unite Cabin Crew (Former Amicus Section)
www.uniteba.com
able to recommend, at long last, a deal that would bring about a welcome
return to normality for our airline.
This has not been possible. After a sensible pause for reflection from
both sides since the last days of industrial action, talks resumed
directly with our General Secretary Tony Woodley and British Airways CEO
Willie Walsh.
These concluded late yesterday evening and were unsuccessful.
Though the dispute was over imposition, British Airways insisted that any
settlement must include several new areas.
* New fleet
* Changes to the disciplinary, grievance and redeployment agreements
* A complete renegotiation of the trade union facilities agreement
* Two year pay freeze
* Two year capped pay deal
* Introduction of monthly travel payment
* Future promotion
* Route transfer procedure to new fleet
* Ops and choice
* New disruption agreement
Though not ideal, with good will on both sides this could have formed the
basis of
"A way forward"
The words were fairly broad and not particularly specific or detailed, as
it would require a huge leap of faith to entrust or guarantee the rest of
your flying career to "good will."
Your union was prepared to fulfill our half of the bargain but in the end
what was missing was the complete absence of any " Good will" on behalf of
British Airways.
Without that, it would be impossible to have the required faith in what
are essentially just words.
Actions speak far louder. A systematic insistence of zealously pursuing an
increasing number, now over fifty, dispute related disciplinaries and
applying disproportionately harsh sanctions - for trivial reasons. Along
side this an obvious desire to permanently "punish " all those, who
participated in a legal and lawful strike have become the stumbling
blocks.
How could we recommend, in good faith acceptance of a set of words, the
spirit of which has already been broken before the ink is dry on the
paper? We would be misleading you and were just not prepared to do that.
British Airways customers must ask why there are still on going threats to
their travel plans, essentially over punitive decisions our CEO opted to
take. If he had not chosen to take these actions, this dispute could well
have now been resolved.
It would be wise to reflect that for many in higher management the focus
appears to be on crushing cabin crew, rather than the business of running
an airline and carrying passengers. There simply is no sensible business
rationale to insist on enforcing decisions that will affect between 4000
and 5000 people permanently, unless it is over pride or a desire for
revenge. It simply does not make sense.
There will of course be an on line ballot to ask your views in the next
few days, but to be absolutely clear, we have no other choice but to join
both Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson in recommending that you join us in
rejecting this proposal .
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL
IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE OR CONTACT US
[email protected] (LHR)
[email protected] (LGW)
Unite Cabin Crew (Former Amicus Section)
www.uniteba.com
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Tomkins
I would argue that it may be possible people outside BA have a better "informed" opinion than many CC in BA who don't choose to be "informed" and just accept whatever BASSA say