BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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To get this thread back on the BA CC IA matter, this was posted today on the CC thread by a BA pilot as "the latest from the chair". I wonder if he means LizAnne?
For your info since last Tuesday most BASSA reps have been spread all over the world rostered on flying duties. BA do not de-roster us any more so it is almost impossible to function efficiently. Being suspended I am virtually the only one able to conduct BASSA duties but even doing do technically contradicts the rules of my suspension. However I have chosen to press ahead and communicate with you all in my capacity as your secretary. We are doing all we can under the circumstances. We are preparing for more industrial action and hope to be able to make an announcement this week.
BA have been asked to de-roster all reps for a pensions briefing on Wednesday and afterwards the senior reps (those that can get there) will meet with Tony Woodley to agree our next steps. This is the first time we will be able to get together. I appreciate it is frustrating but we simply are not being allowed to represent you.
Since the strike many more crew have been suspended and that is something else we have to deal with. Pilots are now virtually entraping crew and any heated discussion is ending in the crew being suspended while the pilot walks free. Last night I spent much of the evening advising a WW purser who was taken off his back to back and suspended and this is not an isolated incident. This is all down to flight deck and it is no longer a small number. Frankly I am disgusted with them and will never trust them again. What this is doing to CRM is very very serious but apparently it does not seem to bother the BA management or their flight deck lackeys (I am sorry if there are any decent pilots I might have offended but not many seem to be speaking up right now and by sitting back and doing nothing you are as guilty as those doing the entraping). Many good and decent crew are now potentially facing the sack because of the shameful actions initiated by a certain captain. (We have seen his postings on the BALPA forum boasting about his arrangement with Walsh - we hope he is proud of himself).
Yes Walsh is training up volunteers, yes this is now a full assault on your jobs and yes in my opinion we should go for all out industrial action in a determined effort to bring this madman to his senses, but not everyone can see what is happening and some crew still think there are more gentler ways of resisting this dispute. Their e mails have to be answered and their worries addressed. Walsh's actions are taking us to the precipice but not everyone sees it yet. BASSA knows what needs to be done but when we do it we want all the members to be convinced there is no easier way. Quite frankly what we have now is Armageddon and it has all been caused by Walsh backed up by his pet Captain.
Please bear with us and have a little faith, as I said there will be developments this week as far as BASSA is concerned. Speaking personally I shall be pushing for an all out strike as I see no alternative now.
BA have been asked to de-roster all reps for a pensions briefing on Wednesday and afterwards the senior reps (those that can get there) will meet with Tony Woodley to agree our next steps. This is the first time we will be able to get together. I appreciate it is frustrating but we simply are not being allowed to represent you.
Since the strike many more crew have been suspended and that is something else we have to deal with. Pilots are now virtually entraping crew and any heated discussion is ending in the crew being suspended while the pilot walks free. Last night I spent much of the evening advising a WW purser who was taken off his back to back and suspended and this is not an isolated incident. This is all down to flight deck and it is no longer a small number. Frankly I am disgusted with them and will never trust them again. What this is doing to CRM is very very serious but apparently it does not seem to bother the BA management or their flight deck lackeys (I am sorry if there are any decent pilots I might have offended but not many seem to be speaking up right now and by sitting back and doing nothing you are as guilty as those doing the entraping). Many good and decent crew are now potentially facing the sack because of the shameful actions initiated by a certain captain. (We have seen his postings on the BALPA forum boasting about his arrangement with Walsh - we hope he is proud of himself).
Yes Walsh is training up volunteers, yes this is now a full assault on your jobs and yes in my opinion we should go for all out industrial action in a determined effort to bring this madman to his senses, but not everyone can see what is happening and some crew still think there are more gentler ways of resisting this dispute. Their e mails have to be answered and their worries addressed. Walsh's actions are taking us to the precipice but not everyone sees it yet. BASSA knows what needs to be done but when we do it we want all the members to be convinced there is no easier way. Quite frankly what we have now is Armageddon and it has all been caused by Walsh backed up by his pet Captain.
Please bear with us and have a little faith, as I said there will be developments this week as far as BASSA is concerned. Speaking personally I shall be pushing for an all out strike as I see no alternative now.
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Following in the wake of other Union failures in the past perhaps Miss Malone is already considering calling some of her supposed "victims" "The Cranebank twelve" or something similar in the hope of attracting sympathy.
By the way, did you notice all the stuff in the quality Sundays about the strike?
Of course you didn't. In the eyes of the press and the public it's all over bar the final tidying up.
By the way, did you notice all the stuff in the quality Sundays about the strike?
Of course you didn't. In the eyes of the press and the public it's all over bar the final tidying up.
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Lazaruss
Well, heres what I posted nearly a week ago. Going by tonights postings I think I may be right...................
_____________
I would say that the Airline have won this contest hands down and they will not back down. The primary reasons for their victory is an almost complete lack of public support for the strikers. The resons being, well my view anyway:
1. Things are tough in the UK and going to get tougher. People have enough to worry about.
2. Militant Unite. Again there is no public appetite for militant unionism a the moment. Posturing talking heads who no doubt still enjoy union sponsored first class travel just dont cut it anymore.
3. The demo outside the Arora Hotel was a disgrace.
4. The head of the BASSA Union swanning it in LAX - on a sicky?
5. A well played media strategy by the BA CEO. Dignity in press conferences and not rising to the bait.
In short the BA CEO has won a massive victory. Without him BA would probably be finished. From reading this it appears he will come out with a happier company. I would also like to think that the loyalty shown by crew who worked will be recognised as the company undergoes change in the next few years.
______________
Good luck to you all, strikers and workers - as people not causes. This IA is a busted flush.
_____________
I would say that the Airline have won this contest hands down and they will not back down. The primary reasons for their victory is an almost complete lack of public support for the strikers. The resons being, well my view anyway:
1. Things are tough in the UK and going to get tougher. People have enough to worry about.
2. Militant Unite. Again there is no public appetite for militant unionism a the moment. Posturing talking heads who no doubt still enjoy union sponsored first class travel just dont cut it anymore.
3. The demo outside the Arora Hotel was a disgrace.
4. The head of the BASSA Union swanning it in LAX - on a sicky?
5. A well played media strategy by the BA CEO. Dignity in press conferences and not rising to the bait.
In short the BA CEO has won a massive victory. Without him BA would probably be finished. From reading this it appears he will come out with a happier company. I would also like to think that the loyalty shown by crew who worked will be recognised as the company undergoes change in the next few years.
______________
Good luck to you all, strikers and workers - as people not causes. This IA is a busted flush.
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Nasty business
Wiggy on the main thread summed it up.
N A S T Y
Not Allowed Staff Travel Yahoos
or for BASSA - Not Allowed Staff Travel YET
I am dismayed to read of the attitude towards the flight deck (from the other thread), not all of whom would have volunteered. This appears to be a clumsy diversionary tactic to gather members towards a unifying cause (since the main one appears lost). This will, IMO, further distance the public from any sympathy towards the strikers.
N A S T Y
Not Allowed Staff Travel Yahoos
or for BASSA - Not Allowed Staff Travel YET
I am dismayed to read of the attitude towards the flight deck (from the other thread), not all of whom would have volunteered. This appears to be a clumsy diversionary tactic to gather members towards a unifying cause (since the main one appears lost). This will, IMO, further distance the public from any sympathy towards the strikers.
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Return to work issues.
posted by R Knee - I am dismayed to read of the attitude towards the flight deck (from the other thread), not all of whom would have volunteered. This appears to be a clumsy diversionary tactic to gather members towards a unifying cause (since the main one appears lost).
______________________________________
I think you are bang on. The initial phase of IA has failed now someone has to become a scapegoat. Reading the BASSA missives it appears it will either be FD or Senior CC who worked. the only issue being, if Bassa decide to pick on both groups you might actually outnumber them.
Arthur Scargill did the same scapegoat thing, trying to blame first the Union of Democratic Mineworkers and then the Police for his defeat. In the end it was a strick dogma and a lack of public support which cost him. But thats a whole other story........ so no more on that one. I only mention it to support R Knees's thought that we are entering the end game and a return to work.
There will be some nastiness but it will subside. In the meantime I'm off to set up my ebay shop specialising in selling tamper proof tupperwear sandwich boxes for Flight Deck staff
______________________________________
I think you are bang on. The initial phase of IA has failed now someone has to become a scapegoat. Reading the BASSA missives it appears it will either be FD or Senior CC who worked. the only issue being, if Bassa decide to pick on both groups you might actually outnumber them.
Arthur Scargill did the same scapegoat thing, trying to blame first the Union of Democratic Mineworkers and then the Police for his defeat. In the end it was a strick dogma and a lack of public support which cost him. But thats a whole other story........ so no more on that one. I only mention it to support R Knees's thought that we are entering the end game and a return to work.
There will be some nastiness but it will subside. In the meantime I'm off to set up my ebay shop specialising in selling tamper proof tupperwear sandwich boxes for Flight Deck staff
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So is it end-game this coming week? Or not?
I fly BA to USA in 2 weeks, and I'm about to book for Sep as well.
I honestly don't think "BASSA United" have any substitutes to bring on to turn this game around.
I still struggle with figures, though. Out of 12,000[?] CC, how many are actually on strike? None, or virtually none, at LGW or LCY it seems. So it's realistically the "militant minority" at LHR - can anyone say how many CC that is? I've seen a figure of 3,000 strikers [the "P45 Brigade"] being covered by about 1,000 VCC ... is that where things are? Please define the numbers and %ges in relation to LHR, if you can answer
FLYING BA
I fly BA to USA in 2 weeks, and I'm about to book for Sep as well.
I honestly don't think "BASSA United" have any substitutes to bring on to turn this game around.
I still struggle with figures, though. Out of 12,000[?] CC, how many are actually on strike? None, or virtually none, at LGW or LCY it seems. So it's realistically the "militant minority" at LHR - can anyone say how many CC that is? I've seen a figure of 3,000 strikers [the "P45 Brigade"] being covered by about 1,000 VCC ... is that where things are? Please define the numbers and %ges in relation to LHR, if you can answer
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MPN11,
I don't think anyone can say for sure, that's the problem. No one knows how many of those that were on leave, off duty or sick would actually have gone on strike and the way the dates were organised, many crew would in between trips for both sets of dates. Co-incidence maybe?
The figures for LGW were more or less correct from what I saw and the LCY figures were, in my eyes, company spin. The only mainline crew at LCY that can legally strike are those doing the LCY-JFK and they are in fact LGW crew! However, this may have been put out by the company to reassure those booked on CityFlyer flights.
Unfortunately, the only way we will know for sure is if we end up with a prolonged walkout. I suspect more will work than not if the past trends are anything to go by, but until it happens, I would guess few of us would be able to say one way or the other for sure. Sorry. Not a lot of help, I'm afraid.
I don't think anyone can say for sure, that's the problem. No one knows how many of those that were on leave, off duty or sick would actually have gone on strike and the way the dates were organised, many crew would in between trips for both sets of dates. Co-incidence maybe?
The figures for LGW were more or less correct from what I saw and the LCY figures were, in my eyes, company spin. The only mainline crew at LCY that can legally strike are those doing the LCY-JFK and they are in fact LGW crew! However, this may have been put out by the company to reassure those booked on CityFlyer flights.
Unfortunately, the only way we will know for sure is if we end up with a prolonged walkout. I suspect more will work than not if the past trends are anything to go by, but until it happens, I would guess few of us would be able to say one way or the other for sure. Sorry. Not a lot of help, I'm afraid.
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End result
I have never flown BA
I tried to
I booked from Glasgow to Dubai
Previously my flight was direct from Glasgow to Dubai with Emirates, quite exceptional
Anyway this time it HAD to be BA
So it was EDI to Heathrow and Heathrow to DUBAI. It did not happen
After saving up on my (State) pension (After reaching the dizzy heights of an annual income of £16k) for a holiday of a life time (after family bereavements both of us, we needed a break to bring us both back in the world)
First I was miffed at the NON direct flight
Then Bassa cocked it up big style for us
As a poor tosser, all my previous flights apart from EMIRATES were with charter and never again Ryan Air, Easy Jet by far were the best cheap airline
Certainly not EMIRATES quality, but err I have no experience of BA and now never will
The stress and disappointment were too much to risk it again
Easy Jet are and were magnificent, Happy YOUNG crew as with EMIRATES I think they must put them to pasture at 28 :-)and BA looking at the pics take them on
To those that helped get most SLF away well done and thank you (though it did not help us)
To those that disrupted everything may you live in interesting times and reap what you sowed
Not ALL your passengers are business men, who thank you for the day off and the company pays WHATEVER huh
I only hope that those that did this to me, and have lost Staff Travel now know what it feels like to live on a wage of £16k per year and now on a state pension, To save up all year to travel on day x month x and lose it
The airfare was returned the £5k cruise was lost NON SHOW MY fault
Jack McHammocklashing
I tried to
I booked from Glasgow to Dubai
Previously my flight was direct from Glasgow to Dubai with Emirates, quite exceptional
Anyway this time it HAD to be BA
So it was EDI to Heathrow and Heathrow to DUBAI. It did not happen
After saving up on my (State) pension (After reaching the dizzy heights of an annual income of £16k) for a holiday of a life time (after family bereavements both of us, we needed a break to bring us both back in the world)
First I was miffed at the NON direct flight
Then Bassa cocked it up big style for us
As a poor tosser, all my previous flights apart from EMIRATES were with charter and never again Ryan Air, Easy Jet by far were the best cheap airline
Certainly not EMIRATES quality, but err I have no experience of BA and now never will
The stress and disappointment were too much to risk it again
Easy Jet are and were magnificent, Happy YOUNG crew as with EMIRATES I think they must put them to pasture at 28 :-)and BA looking at the pics take them on
To those that helped get most SLF away well done and thank you (though it did not help us)
To those that disrupted everything may you live in interesting times and reap what you sowed
Not ALL your passengers are business men, who thank you for the day off and the company pays WHATEVER huh
I only hope that those that did this to me, and have lost Staff Travel now know what it feels like to live on a wage of £16k per year and now on a state pension, To save up all year to travel on day x month x and lose it
The airfare was returned the £5k cruise was lost NON SHOW MY fault
Jack McHammocklashing
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@ JackMcHammocklashing ... You have my sympathy, Sir. Your message should be x-posted to "the other thread" and beyond, because some people need to be reminded of the impact their posturing is having on other people. Sadly, too many seem to regard this all as a game.
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Easy Jet are and were magnificent, Happy YOUNG crew as with EMIRATES I think they must put them to pasture at 28 :-)and BA looking at the pics take them on
If you are suggesting that the age of BA's crew is an issue for you, then: -
I too have my issues with BA service on occasions, however to suggest that the age of the staff is an issue would seem rather unfair. My own partner, for example, I can assure you strives to provide the highest levels of service at all times, including strike dates, and in your eyes she falls the wrong side of 40 and presumably should be put out to grass in your world.
Comments such as yours are simply considered ignorant, unless you are an employer in which case these days they are illegal.
BA don't need young staff anymore than they need white, gay, Christian or whatever staff, they just need good staff, of which they have a great many – end off.
If however you were being ironic or something: -
Post better...
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Lost Holiday
Snas
Lighten up, you are too close to this dispute to be objective.
Jack was merely highlighting the apparent senior age group in the CC(with a smiley) , this same senior age group that we are assured on all the newsgroups is at the root of this dispute?
He is, like most of us here, the end user and ,IMHO, entitled to be very upset by his experience.
What the CC should be picking up on is that everyone they drive away to try out other carriers MAY not come back.
Jack's Emirates illustration is a perfect example, since flying with them, I now look at their routes/pricing before BA's and that is mainly because of the excellent Cabin Service.
Lighten up, you are too close to this dispute to be objective.
Jack was merely highlighting the apparent senior age group in the CC(with a smiley) , this same senior age group that we are assured on all the newsgroups is at the root of this dispute?
He is, like most of us here, the end user and ,IMHO, entitled to be very upset by his experience.
What the CC should be picking up on is that everyone they drive away to try out other carriers MAY not come back.
Jack's Emirates illustration is a perfect example, since flying with them, I now look at their routes/pricing before BA's and that is mainly because of the excellent Cabin Service.
Out of 12,000[?] CC, how many are actually on strike?
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@ etrang and others ... thanks for the clues on the numbers.
Clearly there's a large element of unknowns that we know, and unknowns we don't know .....
Ball-park figures = 4,000+ striking and losing ST. Amazing.
Clearly there's a large element of unknowns that we know, and unknowns we don't know .....
Ball-park figures = 4,000+ striking and losing ST. Amazing.
Ball-park figures = 4,000+ striking and losing ST.
Anyway, onto staff travel.
According to some recent BASSA missives, losing ST is no big deal as they are only standby tickets (though they demand ST be reinstated anyway
)However, with 4,000+ fewer competitors for those standby tickets, and with fewer paying customers thanks to the strike, far more "actual" seats will be available, virtually guaranteeing standby ticket holders a seat on an aircraft.
BASSA have therefore managed to make the benefit more attractive than it previously was
Last edited by Mariner9; 6th Apr 2010 at 11:14. Reason: Carp spelling
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Just a passing observation on how I trust BA these days ....
I've been following numerous threads on PPRuNe and in other places since this all started kicking off. I've drifted [reasonably gently] through "Hang the lot of them" to "Maybe they have a point" to "BASSA madness" and an eventual understanding that there is a load of good CC out there. They care for their company, and they care for their pax ... and the VCC fall into the same category.
Having seen the various to-and-fro tussles over the last month or so, and seen though the BASSA lies, and listened to the sensible posters here and on the 'other thread' ... I have again invested in BA. I'm already booked to fly in 2 weeks anyway, but today I've also just booked LHR-IAD in Club for Sep/Oct.
FLYING BA
I've been following numerous threads on PPRuNe and in other places since this all started kicking off. I've drifted [reasonably gently] through "Hang the lot of them" to "Maybe they have a point" to "BASSA madness" and an eventual understanding that there is a load of good CC out there. They care for their company, and they care for their pax ... and the VCC fall into the same category.
Having seen the various to-and-fro tussles over the last month or so, and seen though the BASSA lies, and listened to the sensible posters here and on the 'other thread' ... I have again invested in BA. I'm already booked to fly in 2 weeks anyway, but today I've also just booked LHR-IAD in Club for Sep/Oct.
FLYING BA