BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions

[The SSK]

I had the pleasure (?) last year of spending a couple of hours in the Staff Travel waiting area of T5. While I was there a dozen CC drifted in off their various longhaul duties, enroute to Glasgow. Only one of them got away on the first departure but all of them got on the next one. As it was getting towards the end of the day (a Sunday) I did wonder how often people got stuck overnight.

[Airclues]

emanresuym

There is a statement on page 2 of that document which states "Please note that this booklet gives general guidance only and should not be regarded as a complete or authoritative statement of law. Authoritative interpretations of the law can only be given by the courts".

As I said, I don't know how the law should be applied. However, it as always possible that the BA lawyers might test this in the courts.

Dave

[Neptunus Rex]

There is certainly no shortage of lawyers in Parliament. If a law has been drafted so badly that it is open to 'interpretation' then one can only surmise that the drafters are incompetent, or that they are deliberately embedding future work for their profession.

[emanresuym]

@ Airclues

Airclues, of course you're right. Its always the case that the ONLY absolute interpretation of any law is by the courts.

[Boy In Blue]

Snas.... Easyjet missed flights

Snas....

If you are late getting back to base and miss your ST flight it is no problem, you juet get the next, or nip to Gatwick and fly from there (in the case of Spain for example). This is not the case with Ryan, Easy etc - when you miss one of those flights it can be an axpensive experience indeed

From the Easyjet website
No worries if you miss your flight We understand how frustrating it is to miss a flight. That’s why you can catch the next available flight for a flat charge of just £43 if you turn up at the airport within two hours of your original flight’s scheduled departure time.
--------------------

I like to fly BA. I still think you have the best looking hosties However, in fairness to Easyjet, they have a very good rebooking policy if You miss your flight.

[Snas]

@ Boy In Blue - fair enough, in the case of Easy the rebooking policy is quite good I agree.

Wont help you if you commute from Hong Kong, LA, New Orleans, and thats just a few that I know personally. Missing a non ST flight for those sort of destinations is a bigger issue I promise.

Nevertheless, ST is important and a loss to some I know.

[Boy In Blue]

@ Snas.... Hi, Wasn't being picky, just I think Easyjet are trying to get it right.

ST from Hing Kong and LA! Bloody hell. It takes me back to my initial point on the strike - some CC have no perception of the reality of life in the UK at the moment. How they could hope to get public support was beyond me. Im afraid that some of them don't realise that the world is not full of First Class ticket holders who might, just, find it a drag when their choice of wines is limited.

I will again state the CC I know personally are great - striking or not - so im not having a go. The vote was stupid but Bassa and Unite have led them down a dead end. I really dont think the militant unionists really give a flying fook for your average CC. The speech from the Labour MP at Bedfont was cringeworthy. I dont think they ever had your interests at heart. It was just a case of we will take on Willie Walsh and his 'posh' business no matter the cost to decent people.

[ExSp33db1rd]

ST is rather important to commuters and vital to some believe me

Nevertheless, ST is important and a loss to some I know

Me too.

I've been banned from PPRuNe threads, and reviled by pruners, for daring to suggest that I might also be upset at now, RETROSPECTIVELY, be losing my Staff Travel in Retirement as a result of WW's dictate to management to conduct negotations about the new S.T rules under a 3 year cloak of secrecy - so that those who are now affected were unable to have any input - and yet there seems to be some sympathy here for those who have now brought it upon themselves !!

What did I do, just grow old ?

Funny Old World.

[binsleepen]

Exspeedbird

You are not reviled for airing your concerns about the loss of benefits for retirees. What does annoy people is that you keep banging on about it in every message you post, on every thread no matter what the thread topic is.

I have suggested you start a dedicated thread to discuss it. Maybe you have but other PPRUNERS have shown no interest so you keep bringing it up on other threads.

Everyone is making cuts in BA to help it survive, why should some one working at BA today make additional cuts in their T & Cs so pensioners can go on without any change in their conditions. People are living longer now than ever, why should present staff and shareholders continue to subsidise you for more years than you worked. Everyone has to take some pain

Regards

ps if you want to continue this lets do it by PM as this thread is not the place for it

[TightSlot]

Quite so binsleepen - Now we have to add ExSp33db1rd as a Martyr to the equation - Tedium redefined

[PAXboy]

I was aware that some staff commuted from Scotland to London for LH work and some from just across the channel BUT to commute from HKG to THEN do a LH trip? No wonder they can't wait to get us all to shut up so they can get to sleep.

If I was an employer, I would never hire staff that had to commute that distance. You cannot call them in on urgent standby and they are ALWAYS going to be tired and jaded. This sounds like another bit of the last century that has been allowed to go way beyond any reasonable usage. If mgmt allow this to continue, they are silly.

[L337]

BUT to commute from HKG to THEN do a LH trip? No wonder they can't wait to get us all to shut up so they can get to sleep.

To be fair, the vast majority of long commuters arrive the day before they operates, crash for the night, then report for work the next day. They have a statutory duty to report for work rested, and rested enough to do a 15 or 16 hour duty day if required.

[77]

If I was an employer, I would never hire staff that had to commute that distance

The issue of where crew live is quite complicated. Many of the crew who arrive from long distances do arrive the day before. Some crew drive long distances to work. Personally I find driving in the UK quite stressful. Maybe someone arriving at work by air will be more rested. Not all crew can afford housing near Heathrow or wish to live near Heathrow. Some cabin crew work part time and stay near LHR for work and then return home for extended days off. With pilots on very long flights some go straight in the bunk after take-off as they are used later in the flight as relief crew.
The important thing is that they adopt a professionel attitude to work and arrive at work fit,well and rested for the ensuing duty.
We all have a different bodyclock. I know of some pilots who will never do longhaul as they cannot sleep on aeroplanes. Others will sleep for ever in the bunks.
Lifestyle is a personal choice. Different to yours maybe. But don't be so judgemental.

[Mr Optimistic]

International Commute

I presume that long haul commuting is very rare, jet lag must be an issue if only 1 day's rest. Anyhow, can someone advise how things are going now that everyone is back at work. Under control and professional or tense ?

[vanHorck]

Somebody should open a poll like this
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ance-vote.html
but this one regarding BASSA
on the CC forum, but I am not a CC member nor do I know how such a poll is constructed

something like:
I have not been a Bassa member recently and I m NOT likely to become one now given the recent dispute
I have not been a Bassa member recently but I'm thinking of joining them now given the recent dispute
I have been a Bassa member recently, but I resigned over the current dispute
I am a current Bassa member, but I intend to resign over the current dispute
I am a current Bassa member, and I do NOT intend to resign over the current dispute

Any CC member with more forum brain than me who cares to put this poll on the CC section?

[L337]

I presume that long haul commuting is very rare, jet lag must be an issue if only 1 day's rest.

Every time I go to Miami, New York, Chicago, Boston, Bombay, Delhi, Nairobi, Philadelphia, Lagos, Bangalore, etc. etc. I get "1 days rest." Then back to work. In truth it is less than 1 day usually, nearer 20 hours rest.

If you think 1 days rest is not enough would you mind calling Willie and asking him if we can have more time off please?

[Mr Optimistic]

If you think 1 days rest is not enough would you mind calling Willie and asking him i

...would love to but he asked me not to phone again.

[GemDeveloper]

Equivalent Gross Remuneration

There is an interesting contribution that has been made by one of the CC on ‘the other’ forum : British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only) : regarding their payslip.

They report the data from their payslip: their wages are £21,000 and their allowances are £28,000. This total remuneration is for a CC member who works on a 75% contract.

Using the 2009-10 tax rates, and assuming no other incomes (for example, additional earnings or interest), they will pay £2,905 income tax, making their net earnings £18,095. Thus they actually take home (net pay plus allowances), £46,095.

If one was working in a ‘normal’ environment, where all the remuneration provided by one’s employer was subject to income tax, then in order to take home £46,095, one’s gross remuneration would need to be £60,041.40

And remember that this is the situation for this particular contributor to the CC forum who works on a 75% contract. If one increases pro rata their wages and allowances for an 100% contract, then they will be taking home £61,028.33, equivalent to a gross income that is subject to full income tax of £84,930.33

One can see why so many senior CC are very reluctant to try their luck in the job markets ‘outside’.

[just an observer]

Re CC wages - I read that pay slip etc as basic £21000, with allowances, £28000. Ie allowances of £7000. I agree the lack of a comma after 'with allowances' in the original text is confusing. So on 75% contract, after 20 years a full time basic is £28000, presumably allowances would be similarly increased to £9333. I don't know which bits of the allowances are taxable, it seems likely some may be, so grossing up isn't straightforward.

[617sqn]

Gem developer
It is posts like that that cause mass hysteria and get a queue for the outrage bus.
I read the post to mean a basic of £21000 and with allowances added on then a total salary of £28000.
A basic salary is taxed in the same way as any UK wage would .Why would it not be? Even though allowances are earned overseas 59% are taxable.
In your post you are suggesting that allowances are tax free which is simply not true.
Please do not post false information as it really does not help.