BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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wascrew
I certainly hope you are correct. It's not so much the service level on board I'm all that concerned about as wether or not there will even be a PHX to LHR flight when we go.
- Peter.
I certainly hope you are correct. It's not so much the service level on board I'm all that concerned about as wether or not there will even be a PHX to LHR flight when we go.
- Peter.
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how can any employer, let alone one in a service industry, continue to employ staff with this kind of attitude towards their customers, & fellow employees?
"A few comments from another forum regarding flight crew and the changed environment where captains are now speaking to the cabin crew at the beginning or their briefing and clearly being seen as the person running the show:
Quote:
from somewhere else.... wrote:
for f/d.
For example, i know i must serve them their food, does anyone know when?
Must i do tea/coffee or will water suffice
must i get them crew purchase/duty free or is that a nicety and so on.
There will be no more niceties, but i want to stay on the correct side of my jpm's.
......
And i will never ever shake hands ever with them. yuk
Also from somewhere else... wrote:
I will never be part of one team for BA Sorry but if BA went bust i wouldnt give a s**t!!!! But some will of course guess who? The scabby pilots!!! Be one team? kiss my a**e !!!!!
And there's more... wrote:
Just give them the blank stare...fixed pencil thin grin and then sniff. They will soon bugger off. Has worked for me for years. If they ask for anything from the front do what you would do for a pax. Wait five minutes and then say; "sorry don't have that."
Anybody in any doubt that there are some CC who really need to be let go?"
WW needs to get a big book of P45s
"A few comments from another forum regarding flight crew and the changed environment where captains are now speaking to the cabin crew at the beginning or their briefing and clearly being seen as the person running the show:
Quote:
from somewhere else.... wrote:
for f/d.
For example, i know i must serve them their food, does anyone know when?
Must i do tea/coffee or will water suffice
must i get them crew purchase/duty free or is that a nicety and so on.
There will be no more niceties, but i want to stay on the correct side of my jpm's.
......
And i will never ever shake hands ever with them. yuk
Also from somewhere else... wrote:
I will never be part of one team for BA Sorry but if BA went bust i wouldnt give a s**t!!!! But some will of course guess who? The scabby pilots!!! Be one team? kiss my a**e !!!!!
And there's more... wrote:
Just give them the blank stare...fixed pencil thin grin and then sniff. They will soon bugger off. Has worked for me for years. If they ask for anything from the front do what you would do for a pax. Wait five minutes and then say; "sorry don't have that."
Anybody in any doubt that there are some CC who really need to be let go?"
WW needs to get a big book of P45s
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It seems the BBC's role as the Unite propaganda machine continues -
BBC News - British Airways strike's 'toxic' staff legacy
What about the non-strikers views?
BBC News - British Airways strike's 'toxic' staff legacy
What about the non-strikers views?
konaman
Just give them the blank stare...fixed pencil thin grin and then sniff.They will soon bugger off
A deliberate failure to communicate by any crewmember must throw doubts on that person's fitness to operate onboard an aircraft. The keyword the Captain will no doubt have in mind will be "offload". The management keyword would hopefully be "P45".
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There's a link here to contact the makers of the radio programme
BBC - Radio 4 - The Report Contact Us
Maybe someone more able than I needs to put the other side. Or several someones.....
I can't post this on the CC thread, I'm not airline staff.
BBC - Radio 4 - The Report Contact Us
Maybe someone more able than I needs to put the other side. Or several someones.....
I can't post this on the CC thread, I'm not airline staff.
wiggy,
Some years ago a colleague offloaded a young lady for similar behaviour.
Her unfortunate crewmember husband who (IMHO wisely) sided with her was also offloaded but I'm sure that his extenuating circumstances were taken into account at the subsequent inquiry
Some years ago a colleague offloaded a young lady for similar behaviour.
Her unfortunate crewmember husband who (IMHO wisely) sided with her was also offloaded but I'm sure that his extenuating circumstances were taken into account at the subsequent inquiry
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Basil/Wiggy
A general question for you both then: if a crew member was offloaded (for any reason, I don't necessarily mean as a result of this dispute), presumably the captain then too has to appear before that enquiry to explain his or her actions. If so, how does the airline manage that to ensure fairness and remove any possibility of unfair behaviour by that captain? How do they address the problem of it being one person's word against anothers, without giving undue weight to the view of one individual?
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Originally Posted by Andy D
It seems the BBC's role as the Unite propaganda machine continues -
BBC News - British Airways strike's 'toxic' staff legacy
What about the non-strikers views?
BBC News - British Airways strike's 'toxic' staff legacy
What about the non-strikers views?
I think you're determined to see bias where none exists.
Papillon
You're right, having a witness removes any wriggle room. You need to choose your time and place and frankly some folks can't see it coming. The Flight Deck, in the presence of another Cabin Crew member and another pilot usually works wonders.
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Good posts konnanman and wiggy
In response to papillon I am very heartened to hear of a new vibrant relationship amongst the dedicated BA personnel who have lifted the profile of the company over the recent strike periods. Ultimately, in my view, BA will revert to an unchallenged chain of command from Captain down. If a new regime emerges with a whole crew on the same itinerary throughout a work schedule then a more sensible future beckons . Spanish practices will need to be cropped in all departments but a healthier company will eventually succeed.
Pontifications over but finally I wish to congratulate all departments in BA for pulling together in the last two weeks. Pilots,cabin crew,engineers,ramp staff,ckeckin,office admin etc not least management for all working selflessly in determining the future of a great company.
Time now to rid the nest of the unworthy
In response to papillon I am very heartened to hear of a new vibrant relationship amongst the dedicated BA personnel who have lifted the profile of the company over the recent strike periods. Ultimately, in my view, BA will revert to an unchallenged chain of command from Captain down. If a new regime emerges with a whole crew on the same itinerary throughout a work schedule then a more sensible future beckons . Spanish practices will need to be cropped in all departments but a healthier company will eventually succeed.
Pontifications over but finally I wish to congratulate all departments in BA for pulling together in the last two weeks. Pilots,cabin crew,engineers,ramp staff,ckeckin,office admin etc not least management for all working selflessly in determining the future of a great company.
Time now to rid the nest of the unworthy
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"Spanish" practices
With a probable merger with Iberia in the offing, perhaps the time has come to eliminate the (pejorative) expression "Spanish practices" from the British Airways lexicon?
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@ Chuchinchow ... hahahaha, one of your better ones!
I'm really looking forward to flying on 21 Apr.
If anyone here is working BA217 that day, feel free to PM.
I'm really looking forward to flying on 21 Apr.
If anyone here is working BA217 that day, feel free to PM.
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Sleep suits gone from long haul Club too Basil (although that was a while back now and you only ever had a top from BA). VS cutting back too, understandable in todays's business environment, but seems to be in a slightly more subtle way and without the same impact on overall quality.
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The cutbacks are noticeable on BA, as we only do long-haul to the USA a couple of times a year. Every time it has been a bit less ... to the point why you wonder why you pay the MASSIVE premium for J [apart from the 'fairly comfy but narrow' seat for sleeping on the return [night] sector. There's simply no WOW factor any more.
Better service, style, charm etc. will be needed in the future IMO. Sadly, on some routes, BA is not cutting it. Perhaps the turbulence now will make for a better BA in the future? I earnestly hope so, because it's sad to see a great carrier being criticised so much on this and other Boards. I know some people will jump on the anti-BA bandwagon and have a good moan, but there has been something wrong with LHR LH on some sectors for a while now. With luck, it will get better again.
Better service, style, charm etc. will be needed in the future IMO. Sadly, on some routes, BA is not cutting it. Perhaps the turbulence now will make for a better BA in the future? I earnestly hope so, because it's sad to see a great carrier being criticised so much on this and other Boards. I know some people will jump on the anti-BA bandwagon and have a good moan, but there has been something wrong with LHR LH on some sectors for a while now. With luck, it will get better again.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Now here's as interesting story from the Panorama on-line newspaper Gibraltar
Panorama, Gibraltar's Online Daily, Gibraltar news
The bold bit is mine
perhaps some unhappy Unite cabin crew members should do just that!
Panorama, Gibraltar's Online Daily, Gibraltar news
The bold bit is mine
Union issues statement on decision by Customs officers
Unite the Union has issued a press statement regarding the decision of a large number of Customs Officers to leave this Union.
Whilst the Union says it regrets this unfortunate stand, "we must respect the democratic wishes of employees."
They add: We are fully aware, this has come about regarding a single issue, involving an ex member of this Union, we will not go into detail of the problem, as this might jeopardise the chances of an Officer finding a satisfactory solution on the contrary from this Union we can only say that we wish the ex member the best of luck in its endeavour.
We must nevertheless be critical with the management of the department, for not acting swiftly on a matter that was brewing, and although they had the mechanism to resolve the problem, they did not intervene in a manner that would have avoided the situation that developed later on.
The union goes on to say that it offered all its services, including legal advice, but this was rejected, and again reiterate "our position of total respect for the decision taken, by the individual."
The Union says that for the information of all members it is a democratic organisation, and has a structure that can be acceded by the members.
"Any member or members, who consider that either an Officer, Convenor or a Shop Steward is not representing their interest or view, can address the issue to the District Committee, where the member or members can put their complaint, once this procedure is followed, the District Committee, the governing body, which is composed of twenty seven members, from all sectors, will invite the member/members affected to raise the complaint either orally or in writing, the committee will then take a decision, and action will be taken, if the complaint is found to be genuine, against any of the Officials, regardless of whether they are full time Officers, or Convenors or Shop Stewards. This procedure has not been followed by the resigning members. The membership must be fully aware that the Union organisation is run by human beings, they are not infallible, and can make mistakes. The Union organisation is owned by its members, it belongs to the members, and this must be made quite clear. The trade Union Officials represent the members, and speak on their behalf. As stated above members consider that there interest and grievance are not being properly addressed, they should use the mechanism outlined above," they say in a statement.
And they add: "What we can criticise is the way the resignations were presented with maximum publicity, this only discredits and undermines our prestigious organisation.
"Finally, we must thank the loyalty shown by these who have decided to remain in Unite the Union. To those who have left, we can only say that the doors of this Union will always be opened to them."
Unite the Union has issued a press statement regarding the decision of a large number of Customs Officers to leave this Union.
Whilst the Union says it regrets this unfortunate stand, "we must respect the democratic wishes of employees."
They add: We are fully aware, this has come about regarding a single issue, involving an ex member of this Union, we will not go into detail of the problem, as this might jeopardise the chances of an Officer finding a satisfactory solution on the contrary from this Union we can only say that we wish the ex member the best of luck in its endeavour.
We must nevertheless be critical with the management of the department, for not acting swiftly on a matter that was brewing, and although they had the mechanism to resolve the problem, they did not intervene in a manner that would have avoided the situation that developed later on.
The union goes on to say that it offered all its services, including legal advice, but this was rejected, and again reiterate "our position of total respect for the decision taken, by the individual."
The Union says that for the information of all members it is a democratic organisation, and has a structure that can be acceded by the members.
"Any member or members, who consider that either an Officer, Convenor or a Shop Steward is not representing their interest or view, can address the issue to the District Committee, where the member or members can put their complaint, once this procedure is followed, the District Committee, the governing body, which is composed of twenty seven members, from all sectors, will invite the member/members affected to raise the complaint either orally or in writing, the committee will then take a decision, and action will be taken, if the complaint is found to be genuine, against any of the Officials, regardless of whether they are full time Officers, or Convenors or Shop Stewards. This procedure has not been followed by the resigning members. The membership must be fully aware that the Union organisation is run by human beings, they are not infallible, and can make mistakes. The Union organisation is owned by its members, it belongs to the members, and this must be made quite clear. The trade Union Officials represent the members, and speak on their behalf. As stated above members consider that there interest and grievance are not being properly addressed, they should use the mechanism outlined above," they say in a statement.
And they add: "What we can criticise is the way the resignations were presented with maximum publicity, this only discredits and undermines our prestigious organisation.
"Finally, we must thank the loyalty shown by these who have decided to remain in Unite the Union. To those who have left, we can only say that the doors of this Union will always be opened to them."
Last edited by west lakes; 1st Apr 2010 at 20:09.
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From the same publication:-
It seems there are more parallels with BASSA than you might think.
27-03-10
Sixty-five Customs Department officers yesterday tendered their resignation from Unite the Union following discrepancies over the response to the interdiction of two members from the Dog Section.
A spokesman for the resigning members stated that the reason for their action was “substantial disunion within Unite, which has led to years of lack of support.”
.”They further accused Unite of “manipulation on their part to derail our reasonable concerns"
Sixty-five Customs Department officers yesterday tendered their resignation from Unite the Union following discrepancies over the response to the interdiction of two members from the Dog Section.
A spokesman for the resigning members stated that the reason for their action was “substantial disunion within Unite, which has led to years of lack of support.”
.”They further accused Unite of “manipulation on their part to derail our reasonable concerns"
Last edited by Dawdler; 2nd Apr 2010 at 05:35.
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Unite
Do not the present goings on demonstrate that the conglomerate union, Unite, now has within it the seeds of its own destruction? Unite contains many impossible conflicts of interest. For example. the striking BASSAists (of Unite) who refuse to contemplate change are prepared to put at risk the livelihoods of BA's other Unite members. Hardly an act of brotherly trade unionism!
Is not the very name 'Unite' an oxymoron? Can Unite survive in its present form or will it be obliged to demerge so that the interests of its different groups of workers can be properly represented?
Is not the very name 'Unite' an oxymoron? Can Unite survive in its present form or will it be obliged to demerge so that the interests of its different groups of workers can be properly represented?
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Do not the present goings on demonstrate that the conglomerate union, Unite, now has within it the seeds of its own destruction? Unite contains many impossible conflicts of interest. For example. the striking BASSAists (of Unite) who refuse to contemplate change are prepared to put at risk the livelihoods of BA's other Unite members. Hardly an act of brotherly trade unionism!
Is not the very name 'Unite' an oxymoron? Can Unite survive in its present form or will it be obliged to demerge so that the interests of its different groups of workers can be properly represented?
Is not the very name 'Unite' an oxymoron? Can Unite survive in its present form or will it be obliged to demerge so that the interests of its different groups of workers can be properly represented?
However, I believe the solution is in the membership. Fighting from within is far better than leaving. Quitting the Union will not benefit one single person in the long run. Those opposed to the strike at BA would have been better off joining BASSA in force and changing things from within. The only section to benefit from the resignations will be the company bosses. Those quitting will be at forefront of future cuts, there loyalty will not be rewarded, it will not save their jobs. They will be seen as weak by the company.
One of the biggest problems that moderate TU reps have is the fact that many people either do not vote, or, do not realise what will happen if they vote for strike action. Every strike is met with those who cry off at the last minute with the whine 'I didn't think it would come to a strike' Now, it would be far better for them not to have voted for the strike in the first place.
I would resist the involvement of National Officers at all costs. In my view once they are involved the whole thing becomes Political, and we can all do without that (as the BA strike).
It is always better to talk than walk.
I think that the Union gets an unfair press and all the good it does is never reported. There are many small engineering firms up and down the country who have been saved due to the TU helping negotiate pay cuts and pension cuts where necessary. I know of a company who actually phoned the TU area rep and asked if he could help because they didn't think they could afford to pay the workers that month. (Admittedly this is Amicus). That company is still trading and on the up. The amount of individuals it has represented are too many to mention.
I've seen reps berated for helping save jobs rather than agreeing redundancies. Basically for a moderate TU rep it's very hard. The easiest thing to be is a militant, no thinking is involved in that. Telling the workforce how it is, rather than how it should be is not an easy road to take.
Once realism goes out of the window then we see the BA situation.
Having said all that, keeping an eye out for the opportunist CEO's who are using the present economic situation to prepare for massive profits over the next couple of years, on the back of reducing Terms and conditions, lowering pay, closing pension funds and forcing redundancies, is a given.
The management have a right to manage, they also have a responsibility to their workforce. Between us we should be able to ensure that everyone is treated fairly, equitably and with respect.
To all those who disagree with the TU in the BA case I say, get together, organise, join BASSA and change it from within, if change is needed....
To the original Question.....Yes I think Unite is too big, I think that those of us hanging in there will, eventually, win the day. If that means de-merging then so be it...
I wish you all good luck.