Is RACWA on finals? YOU WERE WARNED!!
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Loney - RACWA's maintenance is appears sound and no probs there, but these aircraft are old and getting flogged around the circuit. New engines sure, new props gear and fittings. But the basic airframe is still old and carried out 000's and '000s of landings.
Sweetnlow - love the name ! Quality instruction is paramaount in the formative years of any training. So why do most new students get given to the junior Gr 3's. So you wanna talk quality, gonna be a short conversation. What about standardisation ? Again a short conversation, its almost non-existant. I for one realised this early in my training and now fly elsewhere.
An organisation like RACWA........ someone once said a centre of excellence.....blah !
Sweetnlow - love the name ! Quality instruction is paramaount in the formative years of any training. So why do most new students get given to the junior Gr 3's. So you wanna talk quality, gonna be a short conversation. What about standardisation ? Again a short conversation, its almost non-existant. I for one realised this early in my training and now fly elsewhere.
An organisation like RACWA........ someone once said a centre of excellence.....blah !
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Apologies for slight thread drift,
Just wondering the latest on the TAC situation? I completed my CPL there a year ago so quite keen to find out more, though I've since moved states. Is TAC no more, and selling off assets?
In all my time there I was never entirely satisfied with the deal I was getting, though each time I thought about moving on I was kept by the promise of new aircraft (DA20/40) and in my opinion, the lack of other decent schools to my taste. Frustrating experiences with endless cancelled lessons due U/S aircraft and admin cock-ups, though looking back I had a couple of really decent instructors that saved me from chucking it in.
Will be sad to see it go, if it does. With a bit of a shake-up it could've been really decent. Thoughts with all the guys there. Anyone in the market for a couple of clapped out Mooney's?
Just wondering the latest on the TAC situation? I completed my CPL there a year ago so quite keen to find out more, though I've since moved states. Is TAC no more, and selling off assets?
In all my time there I was never entirely satisfied with the deal I was getting, though each time I thought about moving on I was kept by the promise of new aircraft (DA20/40) and in my opinion, the lack of other decent schools to my taste. Frustrating experiences with endless cancelled lessons due U/S aircraft and admin cock-ups, though looking back I had a couple of really decent instructors that saved me from chucking it in.
Will be sad to see it go, if it does. With a bit of a shake-up it could've been really decent. Thoughts with all the guys there. Anyone in the market for a couple of clapped out Mooney's?
'Dreamer',
W.E.F. Thursday 2nd Dec. 2010, TAC is in the hands of the Administrators - so the notice stuck on the doors says......
Cheers
W.E.F. Thursday 2nd Dec. 2010, TAC is in the hands of the Administrators - so the notice stuck on the doors says......
Cheers
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WC not sure where you fly now but most training companies have older aircraft. Even new aircraft has 000's and 000's of landings under their belts if they are used for training. Part of the job one would say.
As for quality instruction and you complaints about the grade 3 instructors. Its been a while since I was there, but don't students do check flights with more senior instructors every few hours? If nobody flew with the junior instructors they wouldn't get the abinitio hours required to progress their qualifications along and guess what...New students would eventually have nobody to teach them as the experienced instructors would have retired.
Not to mention that your comments neglect an instructors teaching ability. I have seen grade 3 instructors who achieved far better progress from their students then even some experienced instructors because they are good at teaching.
To put it bluntly if you don't like a place or it doesn't suit you then you move on. The same was said about instructor / student relationships when I worked down that way. To say one is better than another for an individual is like asking how long is a piece of string.
It would be sad to see the choice taken away from new pilots and increase the rate at which we seem to be issuing less and less people licences.
As for quality instruction and you complaints about the grade 3 instructors. Its been a while since I was there, but don't students do check flights with more senior instructors every few hours? If nobody flew with the junior instructors they wouldn't get the abinitio hours required to progress their qualifications along and guess what...New students would eventually have nobody to teach them as the experienced instructors would have retired.
Not to mention that your comments neglect an instructors teaching ability. I have seen grade 3 instructors who achieved far better progress from their students then even some experienced instructors because they are good at teaching.
To put it bluntly if you don't like a place or it doesn't suit you then you move on. The same was said about instructor / student relationships when I worked down that way. To say one is better than another for an individual is like asking how long is a piece of string.
It would be sad to see the choice taken away from new pilots and increase the rate at which we seem to be issuing less and less people licences.
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PUFF is not just a final check!
Meeting tonight.......
New Committee, Same OLD Story (we are trying hard, we are there for members), worst of all - SAME CULTURE!!!!!
Members to now pay a very small increase in a very cheap membership.
Members can now pay a "lifetime membership" of just $2500 - this was explained as nothing more than a desperate grab at money - treasurers words - they need $$$$$ now and don't want prop time $$$$!!!!!!
Even worse....same culture as previous committee.....members should not ask questions AND should shut up and let the meeting proceed...due to time constraints and technical points of order.
Assets being sold off.
.....Round out and focus at the end of the runway....ur line! PUFF - where did it go!
New Committee, Same OLD Story (we are trying hard, we are there for members), worst of all - SAME CULTURE!!!!!
Members to now pay a very small increase in a very cheap membership.
Members can now pay a "lifetime membership" of just $2500 - this was explained as nothing more than a desperate grab at money - treasurers words - they need $$$$$ now and don't want prop time $$$$!!!!!!
Even worse....same culture as previous committee.....members should not ask questions AND should shut up and let the meeting proceed...due to time constraints and technical points of order.
Assets being sold off.
.....Round out and focus at the end of the runway....ur line! PUFF - where did it go!
short flights long nights
I wish I was there..the end may be close
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When there is no change in organisational culture in a close to the wire company inevitably change is forced on them by the "shock" of an administrator being appointed, denial only extends the interim and digs a deeper hole for the Directors no matter how passionate they might be individually.
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blaalistix - you gotta be kidding. Look at schools around and a little further than the end of your nose and you may surprise yourself with what others have and fly.
Students don't do check rides with senior instructors not until they have reached a phase completion, say solo, area solo, gfpt etc. In the interim, a spotty faced 18yr instructor could and typically has been wasting your time, had no teaching experience, turned up late and on a regular basis, changed you to another instructor without consulation. All this beofre we even took to the skies.
How many students have had over 5 instructors for their pre-gfpt phase ??? I was one and I for one walked.
You suggest Gr 3 getting more out of more senior instructors. Sure, so where did the talent go ?
"To say one is better than another for an individual is like asking how long is a piece of string." But we are all different and if one teaching method does not work, does the instructor simply carry on regardless, or does he change his approach and instruction. Most Jr Gr 3's dont have the maturity and the work experience to recognise this. Most jn Gr 3 would simply palm it off as a slow student, when infact the opposite is true.
However, for all you other Gr 3's who have your sh*t in a pile - well done and i wish you all the best.
Students don't do check rides with senior instructors not until they have reached a phase completion, say solo, area solo, gfpt etc. In the interim, a spotty faced 18yr instructor could and typically has been wasting your time, had no teaching experience, turned up late and on a regular basis, changed you to another instructor without consulation. All this beofre we even took to the skies.
How many students have had over 5 instructors for their pre-gfpt phase ??? I was one and I for one walked.
You suggest Gr 3 getting more out of more senior instructors. Sure, so where did the talent go ?
"To say one is better than another for an individual is like asking how long is a piece of string." But we are all different and if one teaching method does not work, does the instructor simply carry on regardless, or does he change his approach and instruction. Most Jr Gr 3's dont have the maturity and the work experience to recognise this. Most jn Gr 3 would simply palm it off as a slow student, when infact the opposite is true.
However, for all you other Gr 3's who have your sh*t in a pile - well done and i wish you all the best.
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Wise words from Joker10.
Lonewolf -you were saying something abou the wise men who had stepped in as the incoming committee having some sort of impact. Apologies, they have, they have shattered all hope of any rescue. They have insulted the membership by asking for an individual fee to help bail out a multi-million dollar operation. They have buried the club, and i suspect the banks who have rejected to loan them anymore.
So now they expect mums & Dads to bail them out for a $2500 lifetime membership to the club. Blah to you, blah to the club, blah to the outgoing committee and blah to the incoming committee.
"We want $$ nto props turning" - WTF is that ???
Gotta go to work but gents, pls do keep me informed when you pull your heads out your ass.
Lonewolf -you were saying something abou the wise men who had stepped in as the incoming committee having some sort of impact. Apologies, they have, they have shattered all hope of any rescue. They have insulted the membership by asking for an individual fee to help bail out a multi-million dollar operation. They have buried the club, and i suspect the banks who have rejected to loan them anymore.
So now they expect mums & Dads to bail them out for a $2500 lifetime membership to the club. Blah to you, blah to the club, blah to the outgoing committee and blah to the incoming committee.
"We want $$ nto props turning" - WTF is that ???
Gotta go to work but gents, pls do keep me informed when you pull your heads out your ass.
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WC you sound as though your student experience was far from expectation, which is a shame as it sounds like you're a passionate pilot. At some point in time though, you need to take some responsibility for how your training progessed - if you had had 5 instructors before GFPT then why didn't you speak up? Why did you not seek to address it? I don't know what line of employment you're in, but in the business world, if something isn't working you take steps to address it. How long would you hang on to something that is unsuccesssful? Clearly you walked away, but had you spoken up sooner perhaps the issues could have been resolved and your training may have taken on a different trajectory. You then wouldn't feel bitter and twisted about that phase of your training.
Innuendo and rumour surround the both the Club and the committee (and as members don't have access to the balance sheet it will always just be rumour), only time will tell if they seek to address the issues with wholehearted gusto. Perhaps grumpy members (and past members) are only hearing what they want to hear - and can't get out of their own negative mindset. Nothing will change unless people change it! That includes, members, staff, management and committee
Innuendo and rumour surround the both the Club and the committee (and as members don't have access to the balance sheet it will always just be rumour), only time will tell if they seek to address the issues with wholehearted gusto. Perhaps grumpy members (and past members) are only hearing what they want to hear - and can't get out of their own negative mindset. Nothing will change unless people change it! That includes, members, staff, management and committee
Hi 'Sunfish',
Yeah.... I was not impressed by that 'offer' either.
General discussion;
It was an 'insult' to those 'Life Members' who have been awarded the HONOUR of the privelege for 'Deeds Done'.......IMHO!!
I would suggest that what should have been offerred was a '10 year term membership' for those who would like to partake of it.
The attraction of this would be that you are then fully paid up for the next 10 years - regardless of any fee increases in that time.
That should have been sufficient 'incentive' for those faithfull members who can afford same.
The figure quoted was that if 110 members took up this 'cash injection' offer then this would help somewhat in the short term......
However, I fail to see how - really - 110 members at $2,500 ea = $275,000.
In the 'scheme' of things - that ain't much at all. And, as Sunny has pointed out, that's NIL further income from those members from fees - for life!
(Theirs - or that of the Club - is the 'debateable' point I would imagine...)
Perhaps the $275K figure was for a specific purpose.
There are and have been numerous 'suggestions' put forward to the executive - but some of those are too big a 'paradigm shift' and I would suggest that they are just not being fully comprehended by those who are really in a 'state of shock' at the present.
They are certainly 'under the pump'.....
There are some 'options' and 'further discussions' occurring, and I would further venture that it might have beeen a lot better for the Club to have postponed last night's members meeting - pending a couple of 'more involved' discussions with interested parties who have done this sort of thing before for other clubs / organisations, and then they MAY have had something 'concrete' to put to the members for their consideration....
There is much 'discussion' to be had ref. Murray Field - said to be 'The Jewel In the Crown' of RACWA.
One can only hope that the 'correct decisions' are made here - it would certainly be a shame to see it 'wasted'.
However, what has occurred / been said, HAS occurred / been said, and now only time will tell what fruitful decisions will be made.
The Club is sick....and needs help.....Long Live The Club!
Cheers
Yeah.... I was not impressed by that 'offer' either.
General discussion;
It was an 'insult' to those 'Life Members' who have been awarded the HONOUR of the privelege for 'Deeds Done'.......IMHO!!
I would suggest that what should have been offerred was a '10 year term membership' for those who would like to partake of it.
The attraction of this would be that you are then fully paid up for the next 10 years - regardless of any fee increases in that time.
That should have been sufficient 'incentive' for those faithfull members who can afford same.
The figure quoted was that if 110 members took up this 'cash injection' offer then this would help somewhat in the short term......
However, I fail to see how - really - 110 members at $2,500 ea = $275,000.
In the 'scheme' of things - that ain't much at all. And, as Sunny has pointed out, that's NIL further income from those members from fees - for life!
(Theirs - or that of the Club - is the 'debateable' point I would imagine...)
Perhaps the $275K figure was for a specific purpose.
There are and have been numerous 'suggestions' put forward to the executive - but some of those are too big a 'paradigm shift' and I would suggest that they are just not being fully comprehended by those who are really in a 'state of shock' at the present.
They are certainly 'under the pump'.....
There are some 'options' and 'further discussions' occurring, and I would further venture that it might have beeen a lot better for the Club to have postponed last night's members meeting - pending a couple of 'more involved' discussions with interested parties who have done this sort of thing before for other clubs / organisations, and then they MAY have had something 'concrete' to put to the members for their consideration....
There is much 'discussion' to be had ref. Murray Field - said to be 'The Jewel In the Crown' of RACWA.
One can only hope that the 'correct decisions' are made here - it would certainly be a shame to see it 'wasted'.
However, what has occurred / been said, HAS occurred / been said, and now only time will tell what fruitful decisions will be made.
The Club is sick....and needs help.....Long Live The Club!
Cheers
I sure as **** don't want to see them sell off Murrayfield.
The aerodrome was acquired and registered to prevent those twats at JAH seeking to move the Jandakot aerodrome to Mandurah.
The story goes that you can't build another aerodrome within coeee of a registered aerodrome and the site that was proposed by JAH would have conflicted with Murrayfield.
I suppose JAH will buy Murrayfield, flog off Jandakot and the rest is history. You lot better get behind RACWA in the west (or register Serpentine), else that is exactly what will happen!
The aerodrome was acquired and registered to prevent those twats at JAH seeking to move the Jandakot aerodrome to Mandurah.
The story goes that you can't build another aerodrome within coeee of a registered aerodrome and the site that was proposed by JAH would have conflicted with Murrayfield.
I suppose JAH will buy Murrayfield, flog off Jandakot and the rest is history. You lot better get behind RACWA in the west (or register Serpentine), else that is exactly what will happen!
One way out is debentures.
Debentures requiring regular quarterly payments, etc. To a fixed value.
You then flog the debenture agreements to the bank in return for your loan.
...Financed a ski club that way, you needed to own a debenture to have booking rights.
Debentures requiring regular quarterly payments, etc. To a fixed value.
You then flog the debenture agreements to the bank in return for your loan.
...Financed a ski club that way, you needed to own a debenture to have booking rights.
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WC apart from being a jaded student pilot about his training at RACWA and someone willing to throw insults at those work in the industry, is any of what you said to me constructive to the topic?
In response to you remarks, I do indeed look further than the end of my own nose at companies around the country and overseas. In fact one of the companies on the JT strip is in receivership and they used new aircraft so that can't be the answer.
If you weren't happy at RACWA then sure change schools as I alluded to previously 'horses for courses'. Not taking into account your experience at RACWA but you appear to think you can't learn from a young instructor from you remarks. But a 45 year old grade 3 doesn't mean they'll be any different from a 18 year old one mate. Turning up late for work is a work ethics issue not an instructional one.
Getting back to the RACWA topic, competition in flight instruction is good for the industry and the student pocket. Bagging a company and hoping they go under isn't any help to anyone unless they are unsafe. I'm sure I could find just as many bad stories about the company you fly with now. In fact having worked at a number of companies I've heard every single one bagging out the others. When instructing it was company x's circuits are way too big or their standards are rubbish, then you work for company x and they say company y's are and so on.
The saddest thing about RACWA was that a previous CFI had identified the need for RACWA to split into a commercial training company and a club that owned 100% of the commerical company and used profits to offset club members flying. Should that have happened way back when then they may not have been in this pickle.
In response to you remarks, I do indeed look further than the end of my own nose at companies around the country and overseas. In fact one of the companies on the JT strip is in receivership and they used new aircraft so that can't be the answer.
If you weren't happy at RACWA then sure change schools as I alluded to previously 'horses for courses'. Not taking into account your experience at RACWA but you appear to think you can't learn from a young instructor from you remarks. But a 45 year old grade 3 doesn't mean they'll be any different from a 18 year old one mate. Turning up late for work is a work ethics issue not an instructional one.
Getting back to the RACWA topic, competition in flight instruction is good for the industry and the student pocket. Bagging a company and hoping they go under isn't any help to anyone unless they are unsafe. I'm sure I could find just as many bad stories about the company you fly with now. In fact having worked at a number of companies I've heard every single one bagging out the others. When instructing it was company x's circuits are way too big or their standards are rubbish, then you work for company x and they say company y's are and so on.
The saddest thing about RACWA was that a previous CFI had identified the need for RACWA to split into a commercial training company and a club that owned 100% of the commerical company and used profits to offset club members flying. Should that have happened way back when then they may not have been in this pickle.
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I was at the meeting last night and the things the commitee suggested made quite a lot of sense. The fact that the membership that turned up to vote on the three motions voted unanamousely in the positive.
Comments about the same culture etc should not be beleived. As to questions being banned I didnt see that. If the people that are making negative comments about the meeting why didnt you stand up when motions for the next meeting were called for? If you were at the meeting and objected to the motions being voted on why didnt you stand up and say your piece when invited by the president?
Lets stop knocking the Club and being negative. If you dislike the club that much stay away from it. It is time for all members to pull together and get behind the committee and get those Propellors turning.
Comments about the same culture etc should not be beleived. As to questions being banned I didnt see that. If the people that are making negative comments about the meeting why didnt you stand up when motions for the next meeting were called for? If you were at the meeting and objected to the motions being voted on why didnt you stand up and say your piece when invited by the president?
Lets stop knocking the Club and being negative. If you dislike the club that much stay away from it. It is time for all members to pull together and get behind the committee and get those Propellors turning.
Mr L, It wasn't motions for the NEXT meeting that were required - It was a discussion on the CURRENT financial situation at THAT meeting that was required.
You heard the accountant speak - we need money and we need it now - as published by the Pres. in the last 2 editions of Tarmac Topics.
And, we need to increase the flying hours per aircraft - and to do that we need to sell off some of the 42 aircraft on the books.
An aircraft that doesn't fly is a ROCK!
It should be painted white - in true Service tradition...
42 aircraft the man said!! When do they all fly??
For such an important meeting, where a lot of action is going to be required at 'very short' notice, being pedantic about 'minutes of last meeting' and protocol of this meeting, did not help one iota!
To stifle 'other discussions' from members and attend to the items on this agenda only, e.g. the three motions which were voted on in the affirmative, including that of the 'Life Membership' proposal, is a very good indication as to how the Club is currently operating - and as to why it is in the position that it is.
I stand by my comments re the 'Life Membership' as above.
A 'Life Membership' is an HONOUR and a PRIVELEGE EARNED - not bought!
10 years 'up front' would have been enough to get 'the faithfull' to subscribe...IMO.
Regardless of the decisions of that meeting, there are others who have the Club's best interests in mind who will simply have to meet with the executive for 'free and meaningful' discussions sans any 'restraints', and assist where they can.
I leave these thoughts to you....
p.s. what thoughts do you have to assist...??
You heard the accountant speak - we need money and we need it now - as published by the Pres. in the last 2 editions of Tarmac Topics.
And, we need to increase the flying hours per aircraft - and to do that we need to sell off some of the 42 aircraft on the books.
An aircraft that doesn't fly is a ROCK!
It should be painted white - in true Service tradition...
42 aircraft the man said!! When do they all fly??
For such an important meeting, where a lot of action is going to be required at 'very short' notice, being pedantic about 'minutes of last meeting' and protocol of this meeting, did not help one iota!
To stifle 'other discussions' from members and attend to the items on this agenda only, e.g. the three motions which were voted on in the affirmative, including that of the 'Life Membership' proposal, is a very good indication as to how the Club is currently operating - and as to why it is in the position that it is.
I stand by my comments re the 'Life Membership' as above.
A 'Life Membership' is an HONOUR and a PRIVELEGE EARNED - not bought!
10 years 'up front' would have been enough to get 'the faithfull' to subscribe...IMO.
Regardless of the decisions of that meeting, there are others who have the Club's best interests in mind who will simply have to meet with the executive for 'free and meaningful' discussions sans any 'restraints', and assist where they can.
I leave these thoughts to you....
p.s. what thoughts do you have to assist...??
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Sweetnlo - Numerous times I expressed my concern about being shuffled across numerous instructors.. The instructors had little interest, the admin staff didn't really take any interest or were not really sure why it was a problem and on two occassions the CFI didn't return my calls.
THE PROBLEM IS SYSTEMIC.
And so i choose to use my limited business prowess, offer my time and any asisstance i can to those who are receptive and open minded.
Glad to hear things went well for the committee last night.....but somewhat concerned that some discussion may have ben stifled, that the life members now have a relatively small price tag on their honour.
I suspect a good number of people of this thread should seriously think of putting their hand up for the next committee election, coz there are some very sharp and focused people expressing some very salient and suitable points.
Fingers crossed !
THE PROBLEM IS SYSTEMIC.
And so i choose to use my limited business prowess, offer my time and any asisstance i can to those who are receptive and open minded.
Glad to hear things went well for the committee last night.....but somewhat concerned that some discussion may have ben stifled, that the life members now have a relatively small price tag on their honour.
I suspect a good number of people of this thread should seriously think of putting their hand up for the next committee election, coz there are some very sharp and focused people expressing some very salient and suitable points.
Fingers crossed !