RAAF pilots leaving

[oldm8]

There are a number of them where I am!

And from a post of yours on another thread it sounds like you are in Canberra, so I guess that's why you haven't seen one for a while.

[control snatch]

And news just in.....

I am hearing from a heap of disenchanted whingers that the world is about to officially stop turning. I mean I knew things were bad but actual cessation of earth rotation surely would have disastrous consequences!

Can anyone confirm this?

[rapiddescent]

World is turning alright

And news just in.....

I am hearing from a heap of disenchanted whingers that the world is about to officially stop turning. I mean I knew things were bad but actual cessation of earth rotation surely would have disastrous consequences!

Can anyone confirm this?

Sounds good control snatch....however, I think the world revolves around CFS right? or that's what they'll tell you anyway, so I've heard...

[Chronic Snoozer]

Yes I think that is inevitable that we will have more human factors related incidents. But these need not necessarily become accidents.

We currently have a situation where experience in supervision is reducing through separation rates, and we are ripping the guts out of our training system as well. Those familiar with recent changes at BFTS and 2FTS will know what I mean here. The two factors combined mean that those at B Cat experience need to be on their guard for the next couple of years. (IMHO)

I'm curious as to how 'bad' it is. These same words must have been spoken in the past on more than several occasions. At what point is the system broken and how is it measured? Large aircraft accident? 100 human factors incidents in a year?

If so-called standards have been lowered, by how much and how is it measured? Gut feeling is all very well and good but this rubber band (flying training) seems to have inordinate elasticity.

I am hearing from a heap of disenchanted whingers that the world is about to officially stop turning. I mean I knew things were bad but actual cessation of earth rotation surely would have disastrous consequences!

Yep, a couple of Navs just wanted to get off, it'll starting turning as soon as doors are closed, captions out.

[Silent T]

Sounds good control snatch....however, I think the world revolves around CFS right? or that's what they'll tell you anyway, so I've heard...

Where'd that come from?

Are the C...haps From Sale somehow feulling all this?

[Naked_recommiting]

Did I hear correctly the 'here's $30K to wait for the pay review end 2008' became, 'here's $30K till sometime in 2009'?

Who taught a carrot to fly a lateral extension?

[rapiddescent]

Yep, the carrot has shifted to the right again......and then what?

Oh sorry guys, we realise that you are all working hard and 'external market forces' aside, we cannot pay you anymore cash...

The key is not having any ROSO....

[Chronic Snoozer]

That BILLION $$$ dollar write-off on the Sea-sprites would have gone a long way to sorting the retention problem, wouldn't it?

Accountability and Defence Spending, never found together in the same sentence. (Hey I think I just invented an oxymoron.)

[rapiddescent]

must be Glenbrook then...

[Captain Sand Dune]

So now we have the Pilot Sustainability Team (or whatever!) doing the rounds asking the age old question of what would keep pilots in the service.
Boy, I'd hate to be those guys! Talk about being used a human punchng bag!
Is this just another "initiative" by the over paid help up top to justify their existences by being seen to do something? Again!!
All they need to do is look back through the files at all the other questionaires etc, the answers will be exactly the same!!!!
Heard the boys at Willy nearly tore their heads off!

[layman]

And retention bonuses for sailors too ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

Cash sweeteners offered to retain sailors

Long-serving sailors and submariners are set to receive cash incentives if they extend their terms of service with the Australian Navy.

Minister for Defence Personnel Warren Snowdon today announced the establishment of a new Navy Capability Allowance.

The allowance will provide a financial incentive of $24,000 to general service sailors and $60,000 to submariners who agree to complete a further 18 months of service on top of their existing term.

Mr Snowdon says the incentive is part of a raft of changes the Government will consider in its push to retain staff.

"We need to invest in them, we need to ensure that those areas where we've got skill shortages we retain people trained by us," he said.

"The Australian taxpayers invest a great deal of money - we can't afford to have those people leaving."



How does this compare to proposed RAAF retention bonuses?

I have very limited knowledge of this but, about 3 months ago, was at a (public) presentation by senior service personnel. Shortages in the services were discussed, and Navy was said to have larger shortages in more areas than RAAF and Army.

Is it a case of 'better staff management'(?) in the RAAF resulting in lower retention bonuses?

regards
layman

[13 Mile Arc]

I've come up with a way to save the Department of Defence and the Australian taxpayer over $100 000 a year .















I've resigned

[Victor India]

Keep seeking that green grass mate.

[Trojan1981]

I have very limited knowledge of this but, about 3 months ago, was at a (public) presentation by senior service personnel. Shortages in the services were discussed, and Navy was said to have larger shortages in more areas than RAAF and Army.

Is it a case of 'better staff management'(?) in the RAAF resulting in lower retention bonuses?

I would say it's a lifestyle issue. In the RAAF and Army you spend a lot more time at home. In the RAN you can be posted to a ship for 2-3 years and spend 6 months at a time at sea. Cash bonuses wont work IMHO. In the current climate tradies can leave, make more money and enjoy a much happier family life. All without having to spend 6 months at sea putting up with military crap.
Same goes for pilots at the moment. There are so many oportunities in the real world that the ADF (RAN/Army particularly) are desparately short (hence Navy's Retention and motivation initiative A109Es).

Yes, the RAAF probably manage their pers better than the other two (definately better than the Army).

[Loiter1]

13 mile arc,
As well as saving over a 100k a year I think you have also breathed new life into this thread.

Did anyone take the money offered earlier this year? I heard alot of talk, then it went all quiet. Been out of the system for a little while now, so my sources are quite limited.

[fumes]

If the Aust AF is anything like other services, retention bonuses and pay reviews are simply there to convince a few people to hold off on airline apps for a little bit to 'see' what happens....on the promise that 'we are about to fix it as it is at crisis point'. The actual hope is that a few hold off for a bit and then the airline recruiting tap is turned off. If the method reduces the resignation rate by more than 3% on your shift, you get promoted. Well done. I'm no Aust AF expert, but you'd be stupid to be enticed to stay on a promise of 'we're fixing things' or for a rediculous bonus. It won't happen, there's no money.

[ozbiggles]

Fumes, I think you are spot on.
There is no way the new government in Oz is going to want to increase a pay rate to pilots in the military when they want to stop wage break outs. (I'm not arguing the merit, just the headlines the government doesn't want)
'They' have already delayed the pay case to 09.
The pause button is ready to be pressed on airline recruitment now, let alone IF oil keeps going up.
So you are correct, the tactics once again will be
Promise,
Pause,
Delay,
Ignore,
and hope it goes away.
Just like the experienced pilots will

[bigdog1971]

I would say it's a lifestyle issue. In the RAAF and Army you spend a lot more time at home. In the RAN you can be posted to a ship for 2-3 years and spend 6 months at a time at sea.

Mate you are mistaken, as I am away for about 10 months of the year at the moment as an Army Pilot. That does not even include the years that I have been deployed overseas - 3 times in the last 3 years. Yes we do not usually deploy for the length of time that the RAN do (unless it on a OP deployment) we are only away for 2-6 weeks at a time but then we are home for only a week before we go again. But we would definatly be away for the same time if not longer as the RAN nowadays.
Now dont get me wrong I am not complaining - I love it, and I am married with Kids, but supporting my unit and capability means so much to me.

My personal opion and circumstances.

the Dog

[Point0Five]

I think that we've established that working for the RAAF doesn't count as the "real world". Nobody in the RAAF draws a salary, has a home loan, kids to look after or any of the other nonsense. The "real world" is only there for people that couldn't cut it...

[Trojan1981]

I am away for about 10 months of the year at the moment as an Army Pilot.

I have been out of the system for a while now too. I was with trg cmd from late 2002-2003 and attatched to AMTDU until mid '04 before discharge so I did not go to MEAO (not disapointed). The tempo was high before that with Timor and RAMSI but that is crazy talk!

I had family and friends in the Navy at the time and they were away all the time. I have lost contact with most now due to various reasons but I remember most wanting to leave (even inter-service) for that reason. The results of the DA surveys always seemed to back this up. That is a long time away from home, I don't know how you do it. I never did love it and was always looking to move on. I can't imagine even being in with a family. Good luck

pOf: I know you are only defending your choices so I wont bite.