RAAF pilots leaving
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Aircrew Sustainability Project
Just so we are all on the same sheet of music it is the Aircrew Sustainability Project - not the Pilot Sustainability Project of early 2000s vintage.
So what does that mean - it means NAVs (I mean ACOs) will again be grabbing at the coat tails of the Pilots and will more than likely receive whatever the Pilots receive.
By the way is the GPCAPT running the project a NAV (I mean ACO?).
Also, PG10 is the top pay rate in the new GOPS (Which took the ADF 10 years to implement). If you are +10 years you can't go up any higher. So when the placement in GOPS occurs mid 09 expect no more pay as only another round of legislation changes will allow for higher pay scales. Something that would probably take another 10 years.
God help me.......Just tell us that there is no money so we can all get on with our lives and join the Airlines and work on our Golf Handicaps.
Cheers
Oh and last year I spent 5 months of the year away from home. But recognise that Navy has the greater retention problem.
So what does that mean - it means NAVs (I mean ACOs) will again be grabbing at the coat tails of the Pilots and will more than likely receive whatever the Pilots receive.
By the way is the GPCAPT running the project a NAV (I mean ACO?).
Also, PG10 is the top pay rate in the new GOPS (Which took the ADF 10 years to implement). If you are +10 years you can't go up any higher. So when the placement in GOPS occurs mid 09 expect no more pay as only another round of legislation changes will allow for higher pay scales. Something that would probably take another 10 years.
God help me.......Just tell us that there is no money so we can all get on with our lives and join the Airlines and work on our Golf Handicaps.
Cheers
Oh and last year I spent 5 months of the year away from home. But recognise that Navy has the greater retention problem.
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RAAF Shortages
Someone in the RAAF's Airlift Group is facing up to his 7th hotseat deployment. Got to hand it to those guys - they must love the heightened levels of adrenalin and the accolades they deserve.
Would like to give some encouragement to a good looking experienced Hercules captain who said she had aspirations to becoming a TP. This was just before she went off with her magnificent flying machine for further insertions into Iraqi airspace.
Trouble is they hardly have time to spend much of the extra money they might get.
Someone in the RAAF's Airlift Group is facing up to his 7th hotseat deployment. Got to hand it to those guys - they must love the heightened levels of adrenalin and the accolades they deserve.
Would like to give some encouragement to a good looking experienced Hercules captain who said she had aspirations to becoming a TP. This was just before she went off with her magnificent flying machine for further insertions into Iraqi airspace.
Trouble is they hardly have time to spend much of the extra money they might get.
Does anyone else get the feeling that with all this talk of parking aircraft and cutting flights the pay review may quietly disappear. It happened to the review in 2002 when 9/11 and SARS took hold.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Q still has 20 A380's and 115+ 787's on order (lots to J* of course).....when they finally arrive. The parked aircraft are a few of the older inefficient jets, but I think recruiting is still going strong.....so I don't read into that too much yet. It can be very unpredictable as pointed out. Unlike United who've just parked 100!
Airlines operating on a tight rope and folding in with high fuel costs tend to feed the stronger ones and makes the apparent pilot shortage go away.....so the next 12-24 mths will be interesting.
Q still has 20 A380's and 115+ 787's on order (lots to J* of course).....when they finally arrive. The parked aircraft are a few of the older inefficient jets, but I think recruiting is still going strong.....so I don't read into that too much yet. It can be very unpredictable as pointed out. Unlike United who've just parked 100!
Airlines operating on a tight rope and folding in with high fuel costs tend to feed the stronger ones and makes the apparent pilot shortage go away.....so the next 12-24 mths will be interesting.
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Does anyone else get the feeling that with all this talk of parking aircraft and cutting flights the pay review may quietly disappear. It happened to the review in 2002 when 9/11 and SARS took hold.
Might be a cynic, but everything I'm hearing suggests they are not too worried about pilot resignations. Otherwise - why would they roll the pay review in with Navs (ACOs) again!
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The RAAF's probably too arrogant to admit any concern about resignations. What we witnessed years back (when Airline recruitment dropped off) will happen to the RAAFies of today. Perhaps they crisis manage all the time, messing people around, due to a lack of foresight, actual leadership and commonsense.
They talk a lot about these qualities but (it seems) not many genuinely display them. If people were held in staff posts longer than 2 years, ie long enough for their poor management to show through while they still had their feet under the table, more accountability could be taken. Until then, promote, promote....good job everyone!
I hear the RAAF is critically short instructors, so they have just sent a Herc guy who just finished instructors course overseas on exchange, never to instruct.
Their wont be a major pay review in my opinion, just smoke and mirrors until the 'tap' is turned off.
They talk a lot about these qualities but (it seems) not many genuinely display them. If people were held in staff posts longer than 2 years, ie long enough for their poor management to show through while they still had their feet under the table, more accountability could be taken. Until then, promote, promote....good job everyone!
I hear the RAAF is critically short instructors, so they have just sent a Herc guy who just finished instructors course overseas on exchange, never to instruct.
Their wont be a major pay review in my opinion, just smoke and mirrors until the 'tap' is turned off.
Seems that perhaps the instructor shortage (in the schools) has been magically fixed by changing the output goalposts, according to sources in the know.
What will happen down the track a bit is another story.
What will happen down the track a bit is another story.
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Williamtown in the news
Today's Sydney Morning Herald has an editorial ("Newcastle could fly") which concludes with a semi-humourous query about the need for RAAF Williamtown:
"In the meantime, one may wonder why the RAAF needs to be based at Williamtown at all, rather than further north. Do the vineyards fear attack from the south by thirsty seals and penguins?"
OK it's a p1ss take, but a hypothetical closure of Willy and subsequent shunting of everyone there to the nation's north would do what to recruitment and retention?
"In the meantime, one may wonder why the RAAF needs to be based at Williamtown at all, rather than further north. Do the vineyards fear attack from the south by thirsty seals and penguins?"
OK it's a p1ss take, but a hypothetical closure of Willy and subsequent shunting of everyone there to the nation's north would do what to recruitment and retention?
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Seems that perhaps the instructor shortage (in the schools) has been magically fixed by changing the output goalposts, according to sources in the know.
What will happen down the track a bit is another story.
What will happen down the track a bit is another story.
Therefore they have settled for what output they can get.
What happens down track? Well I’ve got a box seat matey, and I reckon it’ll be a cack!
The RAAF's probably too arrogant to admit any concern about resignations. What we witnessed years back (when Airline recruitment dropped off) will happen to the RAAFies of today. Perhaps they crisis manage all the time, messing people around, due to a lack of foresight, actual leadership and commonsense.
Almost as good as “we’ll train our way out of it”, as heard about 15 years ago in similar circumstances. It’ll be interesting when there’s bugga all trainers around to do the training!
mmmm ... I made some enquiries about coming back to the job for a while, and after initially very positive responses (eg. we'll slot you in for refresher courses at this time, etc etc) it all went suddenly cold, based on the factors you mention, CSD. Fairly annoying.
I pine for the fjords as well from time to time
CSD, thanks. Will reply to your PM shortly.
Hope you're both doing well.
Hmmmm Verrry interesting. Still she'll be right mate.
No doubt the powers in the towers have it all soughted. You know, do more with less. Has worked for the last 10 plus years.
So whats the big deal. OOhhhh.You mean the out take is no longer only 10-20% of the intake. The departure's may slightly increase and the arrival are actually decreasing
Well welcome to new world. Generation Y combined with a sound economy. Who needs a job in the military ?
Yep the powers could always rely on the ROSO workforce to take the increasing workload. However if we are not replenishing this workforce what now.
Its one thing to keep 'em in, quite another to attract the bugger's.
I think it will be very interesting to see the scramble over the next 5 odd years. Lots of ex's being asked to come back as full time reserves etc. In fact this may keep the machine running for a while, as the guys that leave find they have more time on their hands than expected.
Stay tuned for part 2 of Doctor Who and see if he survives the irrational, nonsensical and illogical, commands from the powers in the towers.
No doubt the powers in the towers have it all soughted. You know, do more with less. Has worked for the last 10 plus years.So whats the big deal. OOhhhh.You mean the out take is no longer only 10-20% of the intake. The departure's may slightly increase and the arrival are actually decreasing
Well welcome to new world. Generation Y combined with a sound economy. Who needs a job in the military ?
Yep the powers could always rely on the ROSO workforce to take the increasing workload. However if we are not replenishing this workforce what now.
Its one thing to keep 'em in, quite another to attract the bugger's.
I think it will be very interesting to see the scramble over the next 5 odd years. Lots of ex's being asked to come back as full time reserves etc. In fact this may keep the machine running for a while, as the guys that leave find they have more time on their hands than expected.
Stay tuned for part 2 of Doctor Who and see if he survives the irrational, nonsensical and illogical, commands from the powers in the towers.
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Its not only a sound economy (for now anyway
) that keeps Gen Y away, but also the restructuring that is occuring in the airline world (Restructuring is managementspeak for reducing conditons). There is always a fair percentage of wannabe RAAF pilots who either plan on doing ROSO and leaving or are unsure of what they want to do after ROSO. Gen Y is not stupid and are now thinking the whole being a pilot as a job thing is a bad idea. Gen Y is much more aware of long term career prospects than Gen X and older were at the same age. I suspect they would now rather become a manager, make lots of money and then fly your arse off on the weekend when you aren't playing with your other toys. I can see their logic.
On the get more out of less vs ROSO. Just before I left the holy grail of the conversion squadrons was to reduce training time so as to get more out of someone before they turned into a pumpkin at the end of ROSO. That was when Binskin was the Air Commander of the month, so now that he is CAF I would expect even more impetus behind that idea. Personally and quite selfishly, I hope they don't fix the problem too soon. That way when I return to Oz it won't be too hard to come by some decent reserve work
) that keeps Gen Y away, but also the restructuring that is occuring in the airline world (Restructuring is managementspeak for reducing conditons). There is always a fair percentage of wannabe RAAF pilots who either plan on doing ROSO and leaving or are unsure of what they want to do after ROSO. Gen Y is not stupid and are now thinking the whole being a pilot as a job thing is a bad idea. Gen Y is much more aware of long term career prospects than Gen X and older were at the same age. I suspect they would now rather become a manager, make lots of money and then fly your arse off on the weekend when you aren't playing with your other toys. I can see their logic.On the get more out of less vs ROSO. Just before I left the holy grail of the conversion squadrons was to reduce training time so as to get more out of someone before they turned into a pumpkin at the end of ROSO. That was when Binskin was the Air Commander of the month, so now that he is CAF I would expect even more impetus behind that idea. Personally and quite selfishly, I hope they don't fix the problem too soon. That way when I return to Oz it won't be too hard to come by some decent reserve work
True enough but the diminishing returns are going to bite. The Defence Force, aka deaf force, has been struggling to fill vacancies FEG wide and is now having difficulties doing so in the so called attractive careers i.e pilots.
Once upon a time the attraction was rather romantic and noble. Aviators in the new sport of airborne control and the knights of the air in conflict. It was a very special area, to fly in the first 40 odd years. Then the economy and travel kicked in making it a very new and attractive profession, jetting around the world with a dozen virgin's (waiting to be devirginated).
However the attractiveness of doing something new, different to the norm etc is no longer there. Flying is old hat, the thought of struggling through the forbidding skies [I]pushing buttons[I] is passe and trying to be a devirginator without the virgins is wot?
All jokes aside. If the deaf force does not advertise itself well what can you expect? Yes Billy says I want to be a jet pilot, but Billy is told that his frontal lobotomy would not be successful so he probably will not be a jet pilot. Will he be happy flying something else in the force. Bugger no why not become a successful broker or IT specialist and buy my own aircraft and do my own thing when I want to as opposed to being told when too.
I hear tell manpower/power force or whatever they are called has lost the recruiting contract. They may count themselves lucky. Would you pay full price for a mine that has only an estimated 10% left of its resources. Given that recruiting work on a bonus/commission basis how do you make a profit if no-one is walking in through the doors.
Once upon a time the attraction was rather romantic and noble. Aviators in the new sport of airborne control and the knights of the air in conflict. It was a very special area, to fly in the first 40 odd years. Then the economy and travel kicked in making it a very new and attractive profession, jetting around the world with a dozen virgin's (waiting to be devirginated).
However the attractiveness of doing something new, different to the norm etc is no longer there. Flying is old hat, the thought of struggling through the forbidding skies [I]pushing buttons[I] is passe and trying to be a devirginator without the virgins is wot?
All jokes aside. If the deaf force does not advertise itself well what can you expect? Yes Billy says I want to be a jet pilot, but Billy is told that his frontal lobotomy would not be successful so he probably will not be a jet pilot. Will he be happy flying something else in the force. Bugger no why not become a successful broker or IT specialist and buy my own aircraft and do my own thing when I want to as opposed to being told when too.
I hear tell manpower/power force or whatever they are called has lost the recruiting contract. They may count themselves lucky. Would you pay full price for a mine that has only an estimated 10% left of its resources. Given that recruiting work on a bonus/commission basis how do you make a profit if no-one is walking in through the doors.
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Those who have been around for a while will have seen this wheel turn a few times before. Slowing economic growth and rising fuel costs will fix the pilot manning issue in the RAAF (IMHO). The aircrew/pilot sustainability project (or whatever it is called) will be shelved for another few years.
And if you think I am wrong, read Fridays news. QANTAS is planning to cut 1500 jobs and cancelled plans for 1200 new ones.
Qantas cuts 1,500 jobs - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
As for RAAF being unable to attract new pilots, go check out the rate at which 2FTS is churning out bograts!! A full course graduates every 12 weeks now.
And if you think I am wrong, read Fridays news. QANTAS is planning to cut 1500 jobs and cancelled plans for 1200 new ones.
Qantas cuts 1,500 jobs - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
As for RAAF being unable to attract new pilots, go check out the rate at which 2FTS is churning out bograts!! A full course graduates every 12 weeks now.
OLDM8
Maybe but a mate or myne that knows a mate of his that knows a mate says that the boys walking in the door now, not 12 months ago, are not walking in the doors. Yes and he also says that the training pipeline is chockers at the present time. He also parted with the info that a recent ADFA board expecting somewhere around 90 achieved around half that number.
Great, the big Q is doing the big cut, but is that in the area where by they make the money?
Even if it is and the economic down turn may well slow the rapid airline expansion, the boys and girls are just not attracted to flying nowadays, be it military or commercial. Has not the big Q started up a cadet ship, are they not looking at footing the bill for training in return for a 4 year ROSO.
Prior 9/11 there was already rumblings in the European theatre that there was an unrecognised pilot shortage. Unrecognised because the major carriers had maintained their intake by lowering the requirements for membership and it was the regionals having had a hard time with maintaining their experience levels and recruiting. The aviation industry was once again heading in this direction but a saving grace for them may well be the economic hiccup.
Mind you anyone that does not jump on the China band wagon will surely miss out on the foreseeable profitable aviation market.
I shall slightly plagiarise " All ramblings guinness induced"
Maybe but a mate or myne that knows a mate of his that knows a mate says that the boys walking in the door now, not 12 months ago, are not walking in the doors. Yes and he also says that the training pipeline is chockers at the present time. He also parted with the info that a recent ADFA board expecting somewhere around 90 achieved around half that number.
Great, the big Q is doing the big cut, but is that in the area where by they make the money?
Even if it is and the economic down turn may well slow the rapid airline expansion, the boys and girls are just not attracted to flying nowadays, be it military or commercial. Has not the big Q started up a cadet ship, are they not looking at footing the bill for training in return for a 4 year ROSO.
Prior 9/11 there was already rumblings in the European theatre that there was an unrecognised pilot shortage. Unrecognised because the major carriers had maintained their intake by lowering the requirements for membership and it was the regionals having had a hard time with maintaining their experience levels and recruiting. The aviation industry was once again heading in this direction but a saving grace for them may well be the economic hiccup.
Mind you anyone that does not jump on the China band wagon will surely miss out on the foreseeable profitable aviation market.
I shall slightly plagiarise " All ramblings guinness induced"