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-   -   RAAF pilots leaving (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/278647-raaf-pilots-leaving.html)

control snatch 4th Jun 2007 01:37

RAAF pilots not leaving / coming back
 
A mate of mine who drives for the RAAF is telling me that an exodus occurring ATM. Pilots leaving in droves to go to airlines and also to lucrative overseas training positions.

Just wondered if anyone could shed any light on the issue. I would have thought there would be nothing to complain about if you were flying some of the best aircraft in the country. I am guessing these guys are paid pretty well....my "mate" just cracked six figs and he is not a high rank, sounds pretty good to me.

Just confused, sounds like a pretty good wicket to me!!!!

peuce 4th Jun 2007 02:31

My guess is that money is not always the defining factor.
Other considerations could include:

* Flying hours available
* Warfare Postings & Life expectancy
* Time away from family
* Transfers
* Promotions (or lack thereof)

Aussie 4th Jun 2007 05:29

Not to mention a ground posting for 2 or so yrs!!!

Capt Kremin 4th Jun 2007 07:38

Flying for the RAAF is a young man's job. Put simply, if they had wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one.

Aussie 4th Jun 2007 08:40

Currently running at 12yrs return of service obligation :)

BurglarsDog 4th Jun 2007 10:25

"My mate "

Sounds like a sandwhich spread.

ADF pay rates are available on line to everyone who wants to look - unlike industry!

Most pilots are FLTLT / CAPTAIN rank or the ADF equivalent.

A$100K plus up to 28% gross pension contrib by employer (after 20 odd years) plus housing and medical dental is standard. No biggy. ATC get up to about $90.

Life is short. As Mel Brookes said sort of - Jump around flap your arms and makes lots of noise as you are a long time dead!

Mil flying is an unequalled oppoprtunity in life. No one does it forever!! As someone who swopped an MG midget for a Jet provost straight from the box, and two concurrent girlfriends, - believe me youth is there to be enjoyed. Dont get sucked into pension plans and Net $$ s straight off the bat - live a little. For that the Mil is a very good vehicle. Join, learn , mature, fly (up to mach two with no fines by the way) and later when youve "grown up" or succumbed to lives essentials - wife, 2 kids mortgage, dog, stability etc etc - if desirable - leave. If you havrent done 250+ knots at 250 and below at 19 dont knock it.!!Beats a Porsche outright anyday!:ok:

BD

Slezy9 4th Jun 2007 10:59

While 10 Year FLTLT pay is 6 figures it still does not really compare to only working 6 months of the year and earning at least another 20% flying for one of the major airlines (QANTAS or Cathay).

Maybe it would be ok if it was not for all the Bull S&%T associated with being in the military these days.

OHS, Equity, Airside awareness training, Pistol, Pistol again with body armour when deploying, annual dental and medical, annual dental and medical again when deploying and that is only to name a few!

It just never ends. All I want to do is turn up and fly. Oh well 6 years to go now.

superfrozo 4th Jun 2007 11:25

Amen brother
 
"No morale problems & no retention problems..." Paraphrased from the current Chief. :ok:

In the immortal words of Darryl Kerrigan: Tell 'im he's dreamin'!".

Soon there will be a retention bonus offered: the deadwood will stay and take the cash, those that were going to leave will leave anyway, and be asked to complete an "ADF exit survey" - in which, without any hint of irony, I listed completing surveys as one of the contributing factors for my leaving. Oh well, the circle of life continues. As Slezy9 alluded to, the bu!!sh!t has truly piled high in today's RAAF. My personal tolerance threshold was crossed the day we were forced to endure "suicide prevention" training. My god, if I ever felt like committing suicide it was in the middle of that presentation.

BurglarsDog nailed it: Mil flying is for the young. Pay is nice, but not moving 5 times in ten years is better. Besides which, after 785kts at 200'/M2.35 at 50,000', what more is there to do:}:D

griffinblack 4th Jun 2007 11:28


If you havrent done 250+ knots at 250 and below at 19 dont knock it.!!
BD - 250 at 250 is Ok, but 120 at 3 ft having to climb over fences and going between trees sideways because the width is less than the rotor span really gets the adrenalin going! :ok:

Geez, either way - it beats working for a living.

kmagyoyo 4th Jun 2007 12:28


785kts at 200'
Bloody hell B what were you doing up there....letting the Nav fly again :E

ruprecht 4th Jun 2007 12:45

"Suicide prevention training"?

Are you serious?:rolleyes:

Most surveys that came my way had a date with the shredder. My all time favourite was spending 2-3 hours on the computer in about 2001 filling out that Pilot Retention survey. Whatever became of that? (apart from someone getting their promotion for devising another survey).

Aussie 4th Jun 2007 12:49

superfrozo
 
"No morale problems & no retention problems..." Paraphrased from the current Chief.

From what the lads tell me, the new chief hasnt made any new friends since being put in the hot seat...

Interesting times ahead for the RAAF

Fantome 4th Jun 2007 13:38

testing testing

FlexibleResponse 4th Jun 2007 13:39


785kts at 200'
Wow that's more impressive than what I was going to say about 630 knots at 25-50' (don't touch the ground) military work!

785kts/2.35M? Any other hints on the equipment!

Yes, there was an exodus from the military way back in the late '80s and things haven't changed much to this day. It's a healthy turnover. It leaves room for the young blokes and keeps the military training machine in fine fettle.

There is a truckload of money to be made outside of the military.

Just don't leave your move too late.

compressor stall 4th Jun 2007 13:42

if you're going to talk money
 
noone seems to mention that the average GA pilot will spend 3-4 years earning <40K, while the mil pilot is on a lot more than that.

That's a big difference early on that noone seems to think about. :confused:

Fantome 4th Jun 2007 14:00

Off the theme, but methinks a necessary reminder in the face of gales of avtur. Though the unkindly called "knuckleheads" definitely fly the hottest gear, there will always be that element in aviation who identify with Neville Shute's 'An Old Captivity' and find the purest pleasure conning the landscape low and slow in their old J3s or their modern recreational aeroplanes.

Magoodotcom 4th Jun 2007 23:17


785kts/2.35M? Any other hints on the equipment!
Could only be one beast!:ok:

Magoo

Runaway Gun 4th Jun 2007 23:55

Before anyone else cries about the pay in GA etc, please remember that the boys and girls in the military (not just the aviators either) have to do alot of other dangerous and boring tasks. Some of them get shot at too, whilst defending Australia, and some of them die in accidents whilst in uniform.

Yes, I agree that all aircrew should be paid more, and that includes GA and the Regional Airlines. But military people don't necessarily get it any easier.

DutchRoll 5th Jun 2007 01:38

"No morale problems". Uh huh. Just what I'd expect a Chief to say when he's angling for the top defence job. I mean, he's hardly going to say "Well, actually during my tenure, morale has consistently dropped and right now it's pretty crap and people want to leave", is he?

I'm also still in touch with colleagues "on the inside" and nothing has changed (in fact if anything it has probably gotten worse which I didn't think was possible) since I left 6 years ago. The only way you can survive in the RAAF is to enjoy the young & naive years while you're having fun and don't know any better, then exit before you wake up and lose your sanity!

Like This - Do That 5th Jun 2007 04:14


Originally Posted by ruprecht
My all time favourite was spending 2-3 hours on the computer in about 2001 filling out that Pilot Retention survey.

Takes 2-3 hours nowadays just to log onto DRN....:ugh:


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