RAAF pilots leaving
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Above the Gay Bar
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
superfrozo.......you know me - I've never gone for the 'Hornet pilot versus Fighter pilot' thing.
As long as your number one goal in an aircraft is to shoot an F-111, you're alright by me!
Anyway, enough living in the past......20 days off a month beats it all!
As long as your number one goal in an aircraft is to shoot an F-111, you're alright by me!
Anyway, enough living in the past......20 days off a month beats it all!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To answer PAFs question - 6 at my place, mainly laterals. 2 of the guys already have jobs sorted for the mid/late year and will go whilst burning leave and the like to cover the shortfall in the 12 months they signed up for.
If the bonus was indeed a plan to prove the pay-case then perhaps a 24 month period would have been better - 12 months is too easy to loose with leave etc.
If the bonus was indeed a plan to prove the pay-case then perhaps a 24 month period would have been better - 12 months is too easy to loose with leave etc.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAF,
So what you are saying is you should be remunerated, not based on merit or job value but on whether you are going to leave the ADF or not. In fact, not even if you are going to leave, but if your CO believes you are going to leave. I can’t say I agree with your proposal.
Here’s a novel idea. Why don’t we recognise the skills of our personnel, measure there relative job worth and remunerate accordingly. Easy.
By the way, I think there would be more merit if the RAAF issue (number of) wings based on operational service. I wonder how the FJ community would go then?
So what you are saying is you should be remunerated, not based on merit or job value but on whether you are going to leave the ADF or not. In fact, not even if you are going to leave, but if your CO believes you are going to leave. I can’t say I agree with your proposal.
Here’s a novel idea. Why don’t we recognise the skills of our personnel, measure there relative job worth and remunerate accordingly. Easy.
By the way, I think there would be more merit if the RAAF issue (number of) wings based on operational service. I wonder how the FJ community would go then?
Good sentiments, GriffinBlack, but it's the measurement part that's the problem. We certainly could have remuneration based on useful courses done, years of experience and so on - easily quantised - but when it comes to converting value to the squadron from gut feelings to numbers, it gets more difficult.
Not only that, but the idea of 'merit-based' systems, whilst in an ideal world great, just fills me with visions of thrusters sucking up mightily to their superiors in hope of getting rated up the pay scale whilst not really giving a **** about their work in a real sense.
It sounds cynical, but look at the reporting you may have been either on the giving or receiving end over the years - how objective is it really? And if the answer's 'not very', then that's not a great basis for pay.
PS: re the number of wings - I think a restructuring of wings issue would be a great idea, if anyone with a rotary background can have wings that spin!
Not only that, but the idea of 'merit-based' systems, whilst in an ideal world great, just fills me with visions of thrusters sucking up mightily to their superiors in hope of getting rated up the pay scale whilst not really giving a **** about their work in a real sense.
It sounds cynical, but look at the reporting you may have been either on the giving or receiving end over the years - how objective is it really? And if the answer's 'not very', then that's not a great basis for pay.
PS: re the number of wings - I think a restructuring of wings issue would be a great idea, if anyone with a rotary background can have wings that spin!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai
Age: 44
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking as someone who came that close to walking off Wings parade (last few weeks - DOH!) then went across to ATC and left the RAAF soon after, I would not be surprised if this $30,000 goes the way of the RAAF ATC retention bonus - didn't make a difference to me staying or not but if you get rid of it, I am GONE!
At least the RAAF is being proactive here. Reading the Aus Aviation interview, they seem to recognise they have a huge problem and are happy to put their money where their (collective) mouth is. Here at Airservices, our CEO and his minions keep mouthing platitudes about staff shortages and fixing them and looking after their people and how they will fix things, just trust them and, and, and.... but there is a distinct lack of action in the way of extra money or better conditions coming down range.
BTW what has happened to getting courses through PEA? When we went through (190 course back in 01/02) we had two days off between TW and PEA - they were Saturday and Sunday! Now I hear of people finishing TW then having over 12 months before starting PEA - HUH?????!!!! Gee, great way to get people motivated and more likely to pass the course - give them 12 months off of flying! God knows I wouldn't have gotten anywhere near where I did with that time off, so how many trainees are failing who would have otherwise gotten through? Are these guys getting some refamil time before they chuck them up in a PC9? This is a serious problem that is going to rear its ugly head in about 3-4 years time at worst - hope they have a plan for it!
At least the RAAF is being proactive here. Reading the Aus Aviation interview, they seem to recognise they have a huge problem and are happy to put their money where their (collective) mouth is. Here at Airservices, our CEO and his minions keep mouthing platitudes about staff shortages and fixing them and looking after their people and how they will fix things, just trust them and, and, and.... but there is a distinct lack of action in the way of extra money or better conditions coming down range.
BTW what has happened to getting courses through PEA? When we went through (190 course back in 01/02) we had two days off between TW and PEA - they were Saturday and Sunday! Now I hear of people finishing TW then having over 12 months before starting PEA - HUH?????!!!! Gee, great way to get people motivated and more likely to pass the course - give them 12 months off of flying! God knows I wouldn't have gotten anywhere near where I did with that time off, so how many trainees are failing who would have otherwise gotten through? Are these guys getting some refamil time before they chuck them up in a PC9? This is a serious problem that is going to rear its ugly head in about 3-4 years time at worst - hope they have a plan for it!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australasia
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GriffinB,
Banter about 'Operational Service' is piss weak. Sorry if you didn't make it to jets, or bummed out at 25SQN, the 'merit' of your performance in the air obviously didn't warrant the continuation of trying to train you in the comlpex
air combat environment.
I should know - as a vRAAF fighter SQN XO - it was hard to get to my position and I can only imagine it being even harder in the real RAAF!
Banter about 'Operational Service' is piss weak. Sorry if you didn't make it to jets, or bummed out at 25SQN, the 'merit' of your performance in the air obviously didn't warrant the continuation of trying to train you in the comlpex
air combat environment.
I should know - as a vRAAF fighter SQN XO - it was hard to get to my position and I can only imagine it being even harder in the real RAAF!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAF, I think its a bit rich for you to ask how many took the retention benefit and you refuse to cough up what you did yourself...
Me, not eligible, got out of this mans Air Force last year after 15 years (well actual discharge date was early this year.)
Me, not eligible, got out of this mans Air Force last year after 15 years (well actual discharge date was early this year.)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard something really interesting from my sources the other day. AF were all set to offer a one-year $80,000!! bonus, but then govt changed and they were told to wind it back (to 30,000) by the new labor minister.
It will be interesting to see what the new pay case will offer, but I would like to have some insights into what they are proposing, rather than being treated like a 'mushroom' as usual.
It will be interesting to see what the new pay case will offer, but I would like to have some insights into what they are proposing, rather than being treated like a 'mushroom' as usual.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Delay number 1
Well don't hold your breath - latest rumour is that the pilots pay case has already been delayed by 6 months, current estimate is Aug 09................. watch this space.
Mushrooms unite!
Mushrooms unite!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It has all gone a bit quite after the initial offer, I filled out my paper work and sent it away, but nothing since??
However the writing that was with the offer did say that payments would be processed within 90 days of acceptance or 28 Feb?
So about 80 odd days to go till I fork out for my new golf clubs
However the writing that was with the offer did say that payments would be processed within 90 days of acceptance or 28 Feb?
So about 80 odd days to go till I fork out for my new golf clubs
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I think that is inevitable that we will have more human factors related incidents. But these need not necessarily become accidents.
We currently have a situation where experience in supervision is reducing through separation rates, and we are ripping the guts out of our training system as well. Those familiar with recent changes at BFTS and 2FTS will know what I mean here. The two factors combined mean that those at B Cat experience need to be on their guard for the next couple of years. (IMHO)
Fortunately our safety system (and culture) including AVRM, is pretty comprehensive and healthy these days so hopefully this will prevent accidents in the short term.
We currently have a situation where experience in supervision is reducing through separation rates, and we are ripping the guts out of our training system as well. Those familiar with recent changes at BFTS and 2FTS will know what I mean here. The two factors combined mean that those at B Cat experience need to be on their guard for the next couple of years. (IMHO)
Fortunately our safety system (and culture) including AVRM, is pretty comprehensive and healthy these days so hopefully this will prevent accidents in the short term.