CASA Raids Meatbombers.
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Right on Propswinger, GW seems to have gone to the personal path that the chappie named Qnim is a Nazi just because he has found an Operator that seems to me (by reading all the posts) is doing all the unsafe practices of delivering the dirt darts to the selected area in an unsafe and non standard manner. I wonder if the darts have the seat belts attached for the ride to the oxygen starved heights?
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Lukeatme. I dont think that GW has gone the personal path , he is simply stating that in his experience he has come accross such characters (airport Nazi's), I am sure many people over the years have come accross the old Airport Nazi, who likes to make life difficult for everyone else. If you have been reading, PROPSWINGA is an example of someone with a personal grudge. Claiming that their local dropzone has had 5 engine failures due to fuel exhaustion, which by the way is a load of cr@p. Such acusations as the above are VERY serious. And because of the general bagging of the industry, everybody jumps to believe anything anybody says of a negative nature. Because when they hear PJ ops, if its bad, it must be true! I have flown jumpers in the past, and learned a lot and had heaps of fun. On a number of occasions, was sneered at and looked down on by other pilots when they found out I was a jump pilot until they saw what I was flying. Then they became very chummy.
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Otter 1 Well I must admit that I have flown jumpers in the very early days when you told them to put the seat restraint on or no takee off and when clouds cover the zone we do not get involved with them no matter how good you think your flying skills are, but hey it was for fun and the dollars did not corrupt the operation. So you flew them I am impressed if it was in the victoria area did you know Claude of Doncaster (alias God) I also have a local that was a first of the new idea of private skydiving with the el cheapo military canopies but yeah this GW seems to me to be one of the wayward type that will defend any association with the skydiving fraternity be it good ops or even defend the bad situation by condeming bad practices and or sloppy buck chasing operators.
Otter 1 I failed to mention an incident about jumping through cloud that occured at Labertouche (old jump zone east of melbourne) a visiting team was to arrive early morning and stated they would jump in, by radio they where informed that it was eight eights but they said we do it all the time? and let the guys out over what they thought was a good mark (by others telling them it sounded overhead) the guys jumped but good for them they decided not to go through the cloud layer and opened and floated for about 20 seconds before landing on the mountain in cloud. The pilot was a bit shaken when he learned of it but the old jumpers had to get down unaided because four wheel drives could not even get to them. The moral is why risk your life and anybody elses when it is not needed, The cloud will break but if it does not wait or try another day. But this posting forum has seen the problems first hand and are trying to remedy it ? I do know of fuel starvation at least twice at this particular field but the machine they now use would probably negate that but hey cloud ops are not legal and the APF should do a surprise visit and bring CASA along. I am not anti skydiving but feel that it should not be performed at this location as well as not at another location about 4km away either on safety of area grounds. If it was just a club it would survive by not doing cloud jumps as most members would understand but being commercial in operation the public is spending the operator is wanting the dollars any way possible, through traffic must be on there toes as you may not make it to your destination if you get hit by a sky diver that you will not see or indeed you see him/her.
Otter 1 I failed to mention an incident about jumping through cloud that occured at Labertouche (old jump zone east of melbourne) a visiting team was to arrive early morning and stated they would jump in, by radio they where informed that it was eight eights but they said we do it all the time? and let the guys out over what they thought was a good mark (by others telling them it sounded overhead) the guys jumped but good for them they decided not to go through the cloud layer and opened and floated for about 20 seconds before landing on the mountain in cloud. The pilot was a bit shaken when he learned of it but the old jumpers had to get down unaided because four wheel drives could not even get to them. The moral is why risk your life and anybody elses when it is not needed, The cloud will break but if it does not wait or try another day. But this posting forum has seen the problems first hand and are trying to remedy it ? I do know of fuel starvation at least twice at this particular field but the machine they now use would probably negate that but hey cloud ops are not legal and the APF should do a surprise visit and bring CASA along. I am not anti skydiving but feel that it should not be performed at this location as well as not at another location about 4km away either on safety of area grounds. If it was just a club it would survive by not doing cloud jumps as most members would understand but being commercial in operation the public is spending the operator is wanting the dollars any way possible, through traffic must be on there toes as you may not make it to your destination if you get hit by a sky diver that you will not see or indeed you see him/her.
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Otter 1,
Nice try turkey! Five engine failures due fuel starvation in 2 years IS BL**DY WELL CORRECT...end of story! Regularly flying through 8/8th in a machine that is not qualified - FACT. Regularly unauthorised and totally unnecessary low level - FACT. Regularly unauthorised and unnecessary low level formation flying - FACT. Regularly take-offs after dark at an unlit aerodrome - FACT. Passengers carried without seats, harnesses or restraints - FACT. and the list goes ON and ON
Who is to blame?
The parachute operator? NO
The Parachutists? NO
The Aerodrome Owner? NO
The Pilot in Command? YES!!!
Nice try turkey! Five engine failures due fuel starvation in 2 years IS BL**DY WELL CORRECT...end of story!
Regularly flying through 8/8th in a machine that is not qualified - FACT. Regularly unauthorised and totally unnecessary low level - FACT. Regularly unauthorised and unnecessary low level formation flying - FACT. Regularly take-offs after dark at an unlit aerodrome - FACT. Passengers carried without seats, harnesses or restraints - FACT. and the list goes ON and ON Who is to blame?
The parachute operator? NO
The Parachutists? NO
The Aerodrome Owner? NO
The Pilot in Command? YES!!!
......now back to the dirt-darts.
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welcome to 04 and it still drags on
Hi guys! Hope we all had a safe new year in the sunshine. Surprised you are all still here. Such is life.
Just to clarify and to seek clarification please.
PROPSWINGA. Pilot friend wanted some dates and which aircraft just in case you were making stuff up about the fuel starvation. That should ease Otter 1 's mind too i suppose. Hope you have them and its not unsubstantiated as you will look a bit silly in front of all these lovely people.
But just so you know, Barwon Heads has lights for night flying and has done for as long as i remember. (mind you i only remember having 2 beers so far) And all aircraft have been IFR down there for over 12 months and thats from CASA direct. As for seats in a parachuting aircraft, didnt think it was overly necessary or a rule. Maybe go and speak to the boys down there that do the flying (please dont speak to the operator as by the tone of your text it seems it would end in a bloody mess!) and ask them what rules they have for their aircraft and dropping. It seems you may have been previously misinformed about some things. Take an opportunity to expand your knowledge and walk away a more rounded and complete aviator rather than shutting things out like it seems a few people down there do. Im not trying to take you down mate but a person who can have an open mind will get further and be more successful in all facets of life as opposed to one which is not. More so in flying!
And i dont claim to be confucious(spelling?) either! Just an observation. As said, Im not having a go at you!
Also heard that the airfield owner has just given a new long lease to the parachuting mob. What happened, I thought they were against it for being unsafe. Have they cleaned up their act already. Just a rumour though!
Take care guys and hear you soon.
CA
Just to clarify and to seek clarification please.
PROPSWINGA. Pilot friend wanted some dates and which aircraft just in case you were making stuff up about the fuel starvation. That should ease Otter 1 's mind too i suppose. Hope you have them and its not unsubstantiated as you will look a bit silly in front of all these lovely people.
But just so you know, Barwon Heads has lights for night flying and has done for as long as i remember. (mind you i only remember having 2 beers so far) And all aircraft have been IFR down there for over 12 months and thats from CASA direct. As for seats in a parachuting aircraft, didnt think it was overly necessary or a rule. Maybe go and speak to the boys down there that do the flying (please dont speak to the operator as by the tone of your text it seems it would end in a bloody mess!) and ask them what rules they have for their aircraft and dropping. It seems you may have been previously misinformed about some things. Take an opportunity to expand your knowledge and walk away a more rounded and complete aviator rather than shutting things out like it seems a few people down there do. Im not trying to take you down mate but a person who can have an open mind will get further and be more successful in all facets of life as opposed to one which is not. More so in flying!
And i dont claim to be confucious(spelling?) either! Just an observation. As said, Im not having a go at you!
Also heard that the airfield owner has just given a new long lease to the parachuting mob. What happened, I thought they were against it for being unsafe. Have they cleaned up their act already. Just a rumour though!
Take care guys and hear you soon.
CA
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 10th Jan 2004 at 00:09.
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C.A.
You’re right Barwon Heads has lighting and the rumor is the owner has extended the lease but I am led to believe it was because of a previously singed agreement and a dispute over use of a section of a runway.
Regardless of the runway lights and any agreement between the airport owner and the skydive operator (which is none of our business) any operation must be conducted SAFELY and within the CASA and APF Operational Procedures and Regs.
Those of you that believe some in this forum are being to harsh on the jump plane pilots need to stop and think before you rattle off, as he is the person who tips the DIRT DARTS out of the aircraft with total disregard for any aviator in the airspace beneath him, remember it could be any of us in or just under that cloud thru which the DIRT DARTS pass and not necessarily at Barwon Heads.
Now maybe these pilots believe they can walk on water or maybe they believe they are doing the right thing by the operator or both, but be assured when the **** hits the fan the operator will step back and give up the pilots to the authorities (and I believe did in the case at Barwon Heads when CASA raided him).
If they put the lives of fellow aviators at risk they deserve all they get and the sooner the better.
GW_04
Well you sure don’t mind letting everyone know you’re an IDIOT, I suggest you read all the posts before you rabbit off again about communication.
You say in your post you were “a professional jump pilot” to which one must ask how professional?
When we read further on in your post and see you refer to incident reports as “crap about cloud, traffic separation, circuits....etc...bla bla” and we can answer NOT VERY.
PROPSWINGA is right, you’re a turkey perhaps you should get together with Harry_Porter then at least between you there would be half a brain.
(No prize for second place dummies and I guess that’s where you’ve been all your lives no gold bars)
Lukeatme
That was two engine failures in the porter (on one occasion they took out a fence in a paddock on the other side of the road from the end of the runway) and one in the 206 on final this time the landed short of the fence but had to cut it to get the plane out (b*gg*r the farmers what right do they have to put fences in this operators way)
You’re right Barwon Heads has lighting and the rumor is the owner has extended the lease but I am led to believe it was because of a previously singed agreement and a dispute over use of a section of a runway.
Regardless of the runway lights and any agreement between the airport owner and the skydive operator (which is none of our business) any operation must be conducted SAFELY and within the CASA and APF Operational Procedures and Regs.
Those of you that believe some in this forum are being to harsh on the jump plane pilots need to stop and think before you rattle off, as he is the person who tips the DIRT DARTS out of the aircraft with total disregard for any aviator in the airspace beneath him, remember it could be any of us in or just under that cloud thru which the DIRT DARTS pass and not necessarily at Barwon Heads.
Now maybe these pilots believe they can walk on water or maybe they believe they are doing the right thing by the operator or both, but be assured when the **** hits the fan the operator will step back and give up the pilots to the authorities (and I believe did in the case at Barwon Heads when CASA raided him).
If they put the lives of fellow aviators at risk they deserve all they get and the sooner the better.
GW_04
Well you sure don’t mind letting everyone know you’re an IDIOT, I suggest you read all the posts before you rabbit off again about communication.
You say in your post you were “a professional jump pilot” to which one must ask how professional?
When we read further on in your post and see you refer to incident reports as “crap about cloud, traffic separation, circuits....etc...bla bla” and we can answer NOT VERY.
PROPSWINGA is right, you’re a turkey perhaps you should get together with Harry_Porter then at least between you there would be half a brain.
(No prize for second place dummies and I guess that’s where you’ve been all your lives no gold bars)
Lukeatme
That was two engine failures in the porter (on one occasion they took out a fence in a paddock on the other side of the road from the end of the runway) and one in the 206 on final this time the landed short of the fence but had to cut it to get the plane out (b*gg*r the farmers what right do they have to put fences in this operators way)
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rs 480 Yep do remember that but the top end seems to forget most things until it is heard again, I noticed one of the persons mouthing up is in NZ sure his facts would not be wrong how could a south seas pom get it wrong?
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Dear rs480
Calm down there ole chap. You seem to be taking it all a bit personal.
I must add that I did read all the posts and am still sticking to my original story! If these guys all got on a little better and had a good chat about things, I think they might work things out a little better (in other words safer sky's for all).
As for the mention about the cloud reports etc.. I was refering to the airport nazi that was creating the "Crap", was the issue. CASA aggreed and I have in writting to prove this.
I in no way support or condone any unsafe or reg braking practises in our operation from any pilot!!
All I am saying rs480 is that "sometimes", in order to keep it all safe on both sides of the fence is a little extra effort in communication.
I'm sure you and QNIM and PROPSWINGA would get a lot less bored trying this than using the winge forum and watching the hard working pilots out the window.
PS: Cloud jumping for jumpers is legal in NZ and soon to be for a few in OZ. Its safe! If done right!
Why....because a few smart, proactive people have done there homework, had a chat with each other, and come up with a way to make it all happen safely. In fact its all good, because it gives some of the ******** operators that previously broke the rules (ref. cloud jumping that is), something to go on to do things RIGHT. Thats what I'm talking about as an example of COMMUNICATION rs480.
Have fun and safe flying
G
Calm down there ole chap. You seem to be taking it all a bit personal.
I must add that I did read all the posts and am still sticking to my original story! If these guys all got on a little better and had a good chat about things, I think they might work things out a little better (in other words safer sky's for all).
As for the mention about the cloud reports etc.. I was refering to the airport nazi that was creating the "Crap", was the issue. CASA aggreed and I have in writting to prove this.
I in no way support or condone any unsafe or reg braking practises in our operation from any pilot!!
All I am saying rs480 is that "sometimes", in order to keep it all safe on both sides of the fence is a little extra effort in communication.
I'm sure you and QNIM and PROPSWINGA would get a lot less bored trying this than using the winge forum and watching the hard working pilots out the window.
PS: Cloud jumping for jumpers is legal in NZ and soon to be for a few in OZ. Its safe! If done right!
Why....because a few smart, proactive people have done there homework, had a chat with each other, and come up with a way to make it all happen safely. In fact its all good, because it gives some of the ******** operators that previously broke the rules (ref. cloud jumping that is), something to go on to do things RIGHT. Thats what I'm talking about as an example of COMMUNICATION rs480.
Have fun and safe flying
G
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GW_04
You’re right I am taking it bit personal, as that’s the way it is when the DIRT DARTS fill the windscreen after dropping thru cloud, close up and personal and if you haven’t experienced it or been to B.H. to see the manner in which these clowns conduct their operation how can you criticize those that have and do.
It appears to me that most pilots that have been lift drivers tend to side with the skydiving operator even if they have no idea of the operation; I guess it is the feeling of guilt taking over.
As for watching hard working pilots, I’ve never seen one, you can’t tell me flying is hard work, it’s all beer & skittles, let the FO take over, have a chat to the folks down the rsend, enjoy the in-flight service and on your days off be a weekend warrior.
Do it all by the book and at the end of the day you have a wallet so fat in won’t fit in your flight bag WHAT A LIFE
Keep your eyes open
rs 480
You’re right I am taking it bit personal, as that’s the way it is when the DIRT DARTS fill the windscreen after dropping thru cloud, close up and personal and if you haven’t experienced it or been to B.H. to see the manner in which these clowns conduct their operation how can you criticize those that have and do.
It appears to me that most pilots that have been lift drivers tend to side with the skydiving operator even if they have no idea of the operation; I guess it is the feeling of guilt taking over.
As for watching hard working pilots, I’ve never seen one, you can’t tell me flying is hard work, it’s all beer & skittles, let the FO take over, have a chat to the folks down the rsend, enjoy the in-flight service and on your days off be a weekend warrior.
Do it all by the book and at the end of the day you have a wallet so fat in won’t fit in your flight bag WHAT A LIFE
Keep your eyes open
rs 480
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Rs
Now we are having a nice clean bit of opionions here. Cheers mate! Genuine I feel this time. I respect your opinion and aggree in part also. Its just the wingers who have such a one eyed view to all, that I cannot stomach.
I must ask you though... why did you have "DARTS" as you call them in your windscreen, over a known (operating) drop zone?
I am assumeing the pilot did not make any radio calls, you had a coms faliure, the PDZ was not on any NOTAMS or maps....etc.
Cloud jumping in a controll zone or TMA etc is actually very safe if done right. Everybody knows whats going on and where everyone is (including canopys in the air etc.)
It is often the itinerent pilots that are in danger because they may not be aware of the Drop Zone.
By the way...canopys against a cloudy background are a lot easier to see than in a clear blue sky. The colours tend to blend in with the terrain.
Im not saying that I support illegal ops in cloud!!
But....if these guys are going to do it anyway, would you not feel safer if it was being done with set legal procedures? Maybe one of you guys should be pushing these less educated operators into a safe legal practise that works for all (with the help of CASA of course).
As for lift drivers sideing......mmmm some do yeah point takin. Not all though I can assure. Some are just to timid to stand up to some of them. As for B.H... know who runs it, but cant comment on the ops down there as have no experiance with them or the airfield.
Look at it from all sides mate. Then do something to help make it all safer! I know a lot of my efforts in the past 18 yrs of aviation have been just that! Which is why I cant stand the wingers.
Enjoy your big wallet.
G
Now we are having a nice clean bit of opionions here. Cheers mate!
Genuine I feel this time. I respect your opinion and aggree in part also. Its just the wingers who have such a one eyed view to all, that I cannot stomach.I must ask you though... why did you have "DARTS" as you call them in your windscreen, over a known (operating) drop zone?
I am assumeing the pilot did not make any radio calls, you had a coms faliure, the PDZ was not on any NOTAMS or maps....etc.
Cloud jumping in a controll zone or TMA etc is actually very safe if done right. Everybody knows whats going on and where everyone is (including canopys in the air etc.)
It is often the itinerent pilots that are in danger because they may not be aware of the Drop Zone.
By the way...canopys against a cloudy background are a lot easier to see than in a clear blue sky. The colours tend to blend in with the terrain.
Im not saying that I support illegal ops in cloud!!
But....if these guys are going to do it anyway, would you not feel safer if it was being done with set legal procedures? Maybe one of you guys should be pushing these less educated operators into a safe legal practise that works for all (with the help of CASA of course).
As for lift drivers sideing......mmmm some do yeah point takin. Not all though I can assure. Some are just to timid to stand up to some of them. As for B.H... know who runs it, but cant comment on the ops down there as have no experiance with them or the airfield.
Look at it from all sides mate. Then do something to help make it all safer! I know a lot of my efforts in the past 18 yrs of aviation have been just that! Which is why I cant stand the wingers.
Enjoy your big wallet.
G
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Now we are starting to see some sense coming into the argument. There are really four forces at play here and each one has a right to their respective opinion. The forces are:
Parachutists
Pilots of parachutists
Pilots who infrequently encounter para ops and,
Pilots who frequently encounter para ops.
Just because someone does not agree with any particular comment posted here, they are labelled as 'whingers' especially if that post goes against your particular school of thought.
I have said it before, I am not against parachute ops AT ALL but I do have a very serious problem with the few pilots that continually push the limits whilst flying for them. Dirt Darting through clouds is just one issue. If it is not legal, it should not be being done; END OF STORY. Likewise, the unrated pilot who flys an unrated aircraft through 8/8th to get them there needs to be grounded and in any other type of operation in the country, that would indeed be the case. The low passes, formation flying etc are all unnecessary and downright dangerous in the circumstances! Can anyone give me JUST ONE sound and valid reason why two aircraft, with 5+ bums on each would need to depart for para ops IN FORMATION (including the take-off)? The most experienced of us cannot do this sort of thing (with even one pax onboard) when flying display aircraft as it is considered too dangerous and unnecessary!
Let's US as pilots bring a little bit of professionalism into this particular aviation pursuit and continue to slam those errant few who bring the whole affair into disrepute; and if that means I have to carry the title of 'WHINGER' then so be it!
Parachutists
Pilots of parachutists
Pilots who infrequently encounter para ops and,
Pilots who frequently encounter para ops.
Just because someone does not agree with any particular comment posted here, they are labelled as 'whingers' especially if that post goes against your particular school of thought.
I have said it before, I am not against parachute ops AT ALL but I do have a very serious problem with the few pilots that continually push the limits whilst flying for them. Dirt Darting through clouds is just one issue. If it is not legal, it should not be being done; END OF STORY. Likewise, the unrated pilot who flys an unrated aircraft through 8/8th to get them there needs to be grounded and in any other type of operation in the country, that would indeed be the case. The low passes, formation flying etc are all unnecessary and downright dangerous in the circumstances! Can anyone give me JUST ONE sound and valid reason why two aircraft, with 5+ bums on each would need to depart for para ops IN FORMATION (including the take-off)? The most experienced of us cannot do this sort of thing (with even one pax onboard) when flying display aircraft as it is considered too dangerous and unnecessary!
Let's US as pilots bring a little bit of professionalism into this particular aviation pursuit and continue to slam those errant few who bring the whole affair into disrepute; and if that means I have to carry the title of 'WHINGER' then so be it!
Last edited by PROPSWINGA; 16th Jan 2004 at 09:56.
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Poor old PROPSWINGA would have had a heart attack down at Corowa a few years ago during the 11 Cessna formation loads.
Its a shame the pilots were formation rated..
I seem to remember when doing my formation rating, having someone else on board. Instructor?? I have to disagree a little im affraid. Not with what is going on at your airfield, but your statement. The most experienced of us cannot do this sort of thing (with even one pax onboard)
The whole reason behind doing a formation rating is so that when you are actually flying in formation, near the ground or in the air, you can do so safely and legally. If taking off in formation was so deadly dangerous then it would not be allowed full stop!! You should try dropping in formation!
Its a shame the pilots were formation rated..
! Can anyone give me JUST ONE sound and valid reason why two aircraft, with 5+ bums on each would need to depart for para ops IN FORMATION (including the take-off) The most experienced of us cannot do this sort of thing (with even one pax onboard) when flying display aircraft as it is considered too dangerous and unnecessary!
The whole reason behind doing a formation rating is so that when you are actually flying in formation, near the ground or in the air, you can do so safely and legally. If taking off in formation was so deadly dangerous then it would not be allowed full stop!! You should try dropping in formation!
Last edited by 0tter1; 16th Jan 2004 at 12:32.
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Propswinga
A lot of good points there mate. I have to aggree...we might be starting to get somewhere with this one.
Have to dis agree with you about whingers being the ones against another's particular school of thought.
Have a look at the name of this thread.
Is it not just a little bit dirrogitory (spelling not one of my strengths).
Go back to page one and look at how they talk of ooooo...wonder what CASA found at the dirtbag meatbombers. And then it goes on to bag out the whole jump pilot/skydiving scene as if all are just a bunch of (almost criminals as they try to portray). Thats whinging!
Truth. There are good and bad operators at all levels of aviation.
Just as there is some very profesional skydive operators around.
Im open to all points of view on how to fix some of the probs.
Anyone for some good ideas??
G
PS..I think you and I have had some sort of conversation along these lines in the past PROPSWINGA?
A lot of good points there mate. I have to aggree...we might be starting to get somewhere with this one.
Have to dis agree with you about whingers being the ones against another's particular school of thought.
Have a look at the name of this thread.
Is it not just a little bit dirrogitory (spelling not one of my strengths).
Go back to page one and look at how they talk of ooooo...wonder what CASA found at the dirtbag meatbombers. And then it goes on to bag out the whole jump pilot/skydiving scene as if all are just a bunch of (almost criminals as they try to portray). Thats whinging!
Truth. There are good and bad operators at all levels of aviation.
Just as there is some very profesional skydive operators around.
Im open to all points of view on how to fix some of the probs.
Anyone for some good ideas??
G
PS..I think you and I have had some sort of conversation along these lines in the past PROPSWINGA?
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Old Otter 1, if nothign else, you certainly can be trusted to crawl out from under the woodpile just in time to put your proverbial foot str8 into it..........
I said pax onboard....not instructor or essentail crew....pax....PAYING PASSENGERS! There is a B I G difference.
As to my original statement about just one sound reason.....still haven't seen one yet. What's wrong with forming-up for the last 5 minutes of the flight? instead of the bl++dy dangerous pairs-takeoff, one-behind-the-other....didn't see any canopy rel work happening down amoungst the reeds???at dot feet. Could it be you were one of the culprits?
I said pax onboard....not instructor or essentail crew....pax....PAYING PASSENGERS! There is a B I G difference.
As to my original statement about just one sound reason.....still haven't seen one yet. What's wrong with forming-up for the last 5 minutes of the flight? instead of the bl++dy dangerous pairs-takeoff, one-behind-the-other....didn't see any canopy rel work happening down amoungst the reeds???at dot feet.
Could it be you were one of the culprits?
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Oh well, look at it this way propswinga, if they take off together, climb together and jump together, you won't have to worry your poor little head about finding TWO separate jump a/c on the ctaf, will you? Should make it a bit easier for "even the best" to find them.
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.........................and yet another bottom dweller drags itself from the bottom of the pile to add some constructive comments and positive enlightenment to the thread..........AS IF!
Good one Dale.......drop in again anytime
TurbineDreamer....they are all good or better than average para operators around Sydney area, including the south and north coast that I know of.....try your hand with any of them BUT try to keep yourself professional as a pilot! Good luck and safe skies.
Good one Dale.......drop in again anytime
TurbineDreamer....they are all good or better than average para operators around Sydney area, including the south and north coast that I know of.....try your hand with any of them BUT try to keep yourself professional as a pilot! Good luck and safe skies.
