CASA Raids Meatbombers.
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C.A
I was wrong it was the Surfcoast Living Magazine and the article was put in by the operator so I guess he treats the truth in the same way as the regulations with contempt.
Funny about the new pilot must have been a ghost in the R/H seat 3.00pm today. (That is the side they fly the Cresco from)
Backdoor Bandit
Obviously you haven’t read all this thread or you wouldn’t have spoken out of your backdoor because this is all about pilot safety.
I was wrong it was the Surfcoast Living Magazine and the article was put in by the operator so I guess he treats the truth in the same way as the regulations with contempt.
Funny about the new pilot must have been a ghost in the R/H seat 3.00pm today. (That is the side they fly the Cresco from)
Backdoor Bandit
Obviously you haven’t read all this thread or you wouldn’t have spoken out of your backdoor because this is all about pilot safety.
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Gday Propswinga
You seem to know these people very well; you state that a prosthetic leg fell from 10,000 ft, is that all? Falling around this drop zone, boots, goggles, ripcords, altimeters, helmets, watches, camera lenses, rubber bands, drink bottles, drag chutes, and malfunction chutes. We seem to have missed the empty stubbies that are always left in the lift, All these items except he stubbies are held by the local land holders.
The adjacent locals have learnt before leaving the protection of a roof, look up it may save their life
You think I jest.
Cheers Q
You seem to know these people very well; you state that a prosthetic leg fell from 10,000 ft, is that all? Falling around this drop zone, boots, goggles, ripcords, altimeters, helmets, watches, camera lenses, rubber bands, drink bottles, drag chutes, and malfunction chutes. We seem to have missed the empty stubbies that are always left in the lift, All these items except he stubbies are held by the local land holders.
The adjacent locals have learnt before leaving the protection of a roof, look up it may save their life
You think I jest.
Cheers Q
Last edited by QNIM; 15th Dec 2003 at 19:42.
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And there I was just last Sunday, flying along minding my own business with the TSPDR chirping 1200 as I came up to BH, when suddenly, through the windscreen, I spy some four canopys on descent.
Took avasive action to avoid flying through or too close to them. Wonder what ever happened to checking with RAS and that old 'no drop' if RAS warn of traffic in close prox.
Hmmm.... that advice must have been so old that the new meat bomber had not heard of it..
Yes, another normal day at BH !
Took avasive action to avoid flying through or too close to them. Wonder what ever happened to checking with RAS and that old 'no drop' if RAS warn of traffic in close prox.
Hmmm.... that advice must have been so old that the new meat bomber had not heard of it..
Yes, another normal day at BH !
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Pilot Safety?
rs480
I have indeed read this hole thread, and there is nothing in it to covince me it is about "Pilot Safety". It is all about pettiness and the inability of narrow minded whingers being able to get on with other airport users.
QNIM
Well I hope that the local land owners do the correct thing and attempt to return all those items to their rightful owners.
CurtisJenny
It sure is a good thing you were watching out for parachutists as you flew through that known parachute area on the weekend. Hope you didn't miss any drop warnings from the pilot, but of course you wouldn't have, they just didn't make any broadcasts!
I have indeed read this hole thread, and there is nothing in it to covince me it is about "Pilot Safety". It is all about pettiness and the inability of narrow minded whingers being able to get on with other airport users.
QNIM
Well I hope that the local land owners do the correct thing and attempt to return all those items to their rightful owners.
CurtisJenny
It sure is a good thing you were watching out for parachutists as you flew through that known parachute area on the weekend. Hope you didn't miss any drop warnings from the pilot, but of course you wouldn't have, they just didn't make any broadcasts!
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Backdoorbandit,
You can't be for real!? This whole thread is about pilot safety you f
witt! CASA MUST get involved with the parachuting fraternity in this country BEFORE the entire show belongs squarely in the domain of the ATSB.....AFTER someone is killed!
The very least that anyone should be calling for is that parachuting be recognised as a commercial enterprise (which it bl**dy well is) and that it be subject to the same requirements as EVERY OTHER COMMERCIAL operator in the country....including the requirements to have a CP etc...and maybe then, maybe, a bit of professionalism and control might creep into this shoddy enterprise
Might just surpise some readers, but there are a few parachute organisations around that would welcome the introduction with open arms! They are the ones you DON'T read about on Pprune
You can't be for real!? This whole thread is about pilot safety you f
witt! CASA MUST get involved with the parachuting fraternity in this country BEFORE the entire show belongs squarely in the domain of the ATSB.....AFTER someone is killed!The very least that anyone should be calling for is that parachuting be recognised as a commercial enterprise (which it bl**dy well is) and that it be subject to the same requirements as EVERY OTHER COMMERCIAL operator in the country....including the requirements to have a CP etc...and maybe then, maybe, a bit of professionalism and control might creep into this shoddy enterprise
Might just surpise some readers, but there are a few parachute organisations around that would welcome the introduction with open arms! They are the ones you DON'T read about on Pprune
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Well, I visit here rarely and read this thread with casual interest till my daughter rang from Barwon Heads and said she was going skydiving for the first time, if it was ok with me!
That was the end of that but she will want to go one day. Are there any "safe" meatbomb outfits in Australia? Jumping out of planes and "safe" dont seem to go together to me.
Cheers
That was the end of that but she will want to go one day. Are there any "safe" meatbomb outfits in Australia? Jumping out of planes and "safe" dont seem to go together to me.
Cheers
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Gday Bonvol
Very wise move.
Probably the best way to find a safe operator, ring the local ambulance and inquire, how many times have they attended the dropzone in the last year.
I leave you to come to your own conclusions.
Gday BackdoorBandit
Do you attend the Sydney Mardigras? As your name would suggest.
Sorry couldn’t help myself.
Gday PROPSWINGA
Great to see a little support in regards to safety of all airspace users even if some with vested interests try to howl you down.
Gday SANTA
You know what I want for Chrissy, please just get rid of em. Then we all can have a safe Christmas.
TO ALL PPRUNERS DO HAVE A SAFE AND HAPPY FESTIVE SEASON
Cheers Q
Very wise move.
Probably the best way to find a safe operator, ring the local ambulance and inquire, how many times have they attended the dropzone in the last year.
I leave you to come to your own conclusions.
Gday BackdoorBandit
Do you attend the Sydney Mardigras? As your name would suggest.
Sorry couldn’t help myself.
Gday PROPSWINGA
Great to see a little support in regards to safety of all airspace users even if some with vested interests try to howl you down.
Gday SANTA
You know what I want for Chrissy, please just get rid of em. Then we all can have a safe Christmas.
TO ALL PPRUNERS DO HAVE A SAFE AND HAPPY FESTIVE SEASON
Cheers Q
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QNIM
Yes there are some shonky operators out there, but there are plenty of good ones too.
Have a good Christmas and may I suggest you take a few weeks off work to relax man, even better, shout yourself a Tandem Skydive for Christmas.
"If driving a boat aint swimming, then driving an aeroplane aint flying"
Have a go at it - you might actually enjoy it!?
Yes there are some shonky operators out there, but there are plenty of good ones too.
Have a good Christmas and may I suggest you take a few weeks off work to relax man, even better, shout yourself a Tandem Skydive for Christmas.
"If driving a boat aint swimming, then driving an aeroplane aint flying"
Have a go at it - you might actually enjoy it!?
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PROPSWINGA
A rather aggressive response wouldn't you say? I hope you can keep your cool when it all turns to sh1t whilst airborne.
Sports parachutists are killing themselves at the rate of about 4 a year currently, what exactly do you mean AFTER somebody is killed?
Whilst I sympathise with the view that Tandem Operators should hold an AOC. The fact remains that parachutists are simply not being killed whilst inside aircraft and so there is no driving force to change the satus quo.
To suggest that any organisation would welcome the additional cost, and complications of an AOC to their organisation is absurd.
Bonvol
Go on, let your daughter have a skydive, the last time a tandem passenger died in Australia was back in the 80's when the tandem system was first being developed. They do however occasionally sustain leg injuries if they don't get their legs up for landing.
Dear Santa
I just want to see all those dangerous student pilots, weekend warriors, gays, and low time instructors out of our skies, so the rest of us can fly around in safety for Christmas.
P.S.
Try flying that dangerous contraption of yours anywhere near my sacred airspace, and I'll submit video and photographic evidence of all violations to the local council.
A rather aggressive response wouldn't you say? I hope you can keep your cool when it all turns to sh1t whilst airborne.
Sports parachutists are killing themselves at the rate of about 4 a year currently, what exactly do you mean AFTER somebody is killed?
Whilst I sympathise with the view that Tandem Operators should hold an AOC. The fact remains that parachutists are simply not being killed whilst inside aircraft and so there is no driving force to change the satus quo.
To suggest that any organisation would welcome the additional cost, and complications of an AOC to their organisation is absurd.
Bonvol
Go on, let your daughter have a skydive, the last time a tandem passenger died in Australia was back in the 80's when the tandem system was first being developed. They do however occasionally sustain leg injuries if they don't get their legs up for landing.
Dear Santa
I just want to see all those dangerous student pilots, weekend warriors, gays, and low time instructors out of our skies, so the rest of us can fly around in safety for Christmas.
P.S.
Try flying that dangerous contraption of yours anywhere near my sacred airspace, and I'll submit video and photographic evidence of all violations to the local council.
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PROPSWINGA
I agree with you Backdoorbandit is a sandwich short of a picnic.
BackdoorBandit
So you read the “HOLE” thread.
Could that “HOLE” be related to another two, the empty “HOLE” between your ears and the “HOLE” you speak from and sit on?????
Bonvol
Take QNIM’S advise and I hear Torquay is ok.
I agree with you Backdoorbandit is a sandwich short of a picnic.
BackdoorBandit
So you read the “HOLE” thread.
Could that “HOLE” be related to another two, the empty “HOLE” between your ears and the “HOLE” you speak from and sit on?????
Bonvol
Take QNIM’S advise and I hear Torquay is ok.
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Gday Backdoor
Well you would like to see and I quote
” I just want to see all those dangerous student pilots, weekend warriors, gays, and low time instructors out of our skies, so the rest of us can fly around in safety for Christmas.”
Lets start with dangerous student pilots.
You never held a student pilots licence, so you just appeared on the scene fully qualified?
If you have held or hold an instructor rating I bet it’s only a grade 3.
GAYS I asked that question earlier.
So lets ask SANTA that question again, and maybe it would apply to you.
Gday Boney
I have consulted my Dictionary as to the definition of FLYING and DIVING
FLYING, To move through the air on wings, to move through the air by force of wind or other propulsion, to journey through the air in an AIRCRAFT. Nothing about the glide ratio of a brick.
DIVING, To plunge headfirst. So falling with the aid of gravity at terminal velocity, sounds more like the glide ratio of a brick.
This is not flying
Cheers Q
Well you would like to see and I quote
” I just want to see all those dangerous student pilots, weekend warriors, gays, and low time instructors out of our skies, so the rest of us can fly around in safety for Christmas.”
Lets start with dangerous student pilots.
You never held a student pilots licence, so you just appeared on the scene fully qualified?
If you have held or hold an instructor rating I bet it’s only a grade 3.
GAYS I asked that question earlier.
So lets ask SANTA that question again, and maybe it would apply to you.
Gday Boney
I have consulted my Dictionary as to the definition of FLYING and DIVING
FLYING, To move through the air on wings, to move through the air by force of wind or other propulsion, to journey through the air in an AIRCRAFT. Nothing about the glide ratio of a brick.
DIVING, To plunge headfirst. So falling with the aid of gravity at terminal velocity, sounds more like the glide ratio of a brick.
This is not flying
Cheers Q
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Backdoorbandit
You appear to have selective hearing (reading)? I said the ATSB would eventually get involved meaning after there is a mid-air or a loss-off-control in cloud etc etc...... The loss of 4 dirt-darts per annum must be of concern (especially to those who fall into this category) but our concern is for the pilots who for whatever reason either put themselves in, or are PUT in, unneccessarily dangerous situations all in the name of the almighty $ (that I might add they NEVER see for themselves).
Let's cut the cr*p and get to the core of the problem....a FEW unscrupulous para operators demand pilots fly IFR in aircraft not equipped to do so, they force pilots to operate IFR when THEY are not rated, they drop DD's through 8/8ths absolutely oblivious to all the other users of the airspace (and much more) AND THEN cry foul when someone has the gall to say enough is enough.
The way I see it there are two solutions.....change nothing and let the pennies fall where they might OR get these operations under some form of control through the controlling authority...CASA (not the APF). The APF controls parachuting in this country...not their means of getting there!
Clowns such as yourself add absolutely nothing to a fair and reasonable debate over a serious problem that will eventually lead to unacceptable grief and heartache for 1 or many. This sometimes shoddy enterprise cannot be allowed to continue unchecked and unaccountable because THEIR actions directly affect many other airspace users AND WE HAVE A RIGHT to reduce those risks whenever and whereever possible or at the very least, to vigorously voice such concerns.
Let's cut the cr*p and get to the core of the problem....a FEW unscrupulous para operators demand pilots fly IFR in aircraft not equipped to do so, they force pilots to operate IFR when THEY are not rated, they drop DD's through 8/8ths absolutely oblivious to all the other users of the airspace (and much more) AND THEN cry foul when someone has the gall to say enough is enough.
The way I see it there are two solutions.....change nothing and let the pennies fall where they might OR get these operations under some form of control through the controlling authority...CASA (not the APF). The APF controls parachuting in this country...not their means of getting there!
Clowns such as yourself add absolutely nothing to a fair and reasonable debate over a serious problem that will eventually lead to unacceptable grief and heartache for 1 or many. This sometimes shoddy enterprise cannot be allowed to continue unchecked and unaccountable because THEIR actions directly affect many other airspace users AND WE HAVE A RIGHT to reduce those risks whenever and whereever possible or at the very least, to vigorously voice such concerns.
Backdoor...
Ignoring the location/operator issues for a moment, are you saying you support non-IFR aircraft &/or pilots flying through cloud? Or skydivers falling through it without approval from the regulatory authority?
What about loading, fuel reserves, maintenance & all the other items that pertain to safe & legal operation & are often described as....erm....lacking in some operations?
Ignoring the location/operator issues for a moment, are you saying you support non-IFR aircraft &/or pilots flying through cloud? Or skydivers falling through it without approval from the regulatory authority?
What about loading, fuel reserves, maintenance & all the other items that pertain to safe & legal operation & are often described as....erm....lacking in some operations?
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QNIM please consult your dictionary further and look up the word life then precede to get one,, soon after which please go to nearest dropzone (probably Barwon Heads from tthe sounds) and watch some of the videos of the australian rep team like dixon,dougs,wildy,locky etc and tell me if they fly or not. I have personly witnessed these guys moving almost 2 miles accross the sky in under a minute furthermore it is a great sport which helps pilots build hours and keeps many australians employed.
In case you were wondering about these "idiots" that jump out of planes many have over 7000 jumps much of the time sitting next to the pilot and are basically operating crew equating to an unofficial 3500 hours how many do you have??? oh by the way they get paid about 90 bucks a jump with handicam now a days on average 4 jumps a day so 2160 dollaros a week for having a blast and pulling a handle please get a life and exercise caution whilst in the vicinity of a zropzone.
In case you were wondering about these "idiots" that jump out of planes many have over 7000 jumps much of the time sitting next to the pilot and are basically operating crew equating to an unofficial 3500 hours how many do you have??? oh by the way they get paid about 90 bucks a jump with handicam now a days on average 4 jumps a day so 2160 dollaros a week for having a blast and pulling a handle please get a life and exercise caution whilst in the vicinity of a zropzone.
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Gday utedrivingpilot.
Just checked my dictionary as you suggest.
life, The quality that distinguishes animals and plants from dead bodies or inorganic matter.
Now isn't this thread all about preservation of the lives of all airspace users?
It just seems to get the hackles up from a few angry little people with vested interests.
My advice to you is just relax and enjoy the festive season.
Cheers Q
Just checked my dictionary as you suggest.
life, The quality that distinguishes animals and plants from dead bodies or inorganic matter.
Now isn't this thread all about preservation of the lives of all airspace users?
It just seems to get the hackles up from a few angry little people with vested interests.
My advice to you is just relax and enjoy the festive season.
Cheers Q
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Utedrivingpilot
No problem with pilots building up hours or Australians being employed as long as it is conducted safely and within the regulations.
By the way where did you obtain your dictionary? I looked up “tthe and zropzone” in mine dammed if I can find either and as for dollaros it seems to be the only thing you people are interested in.
PROPSWINGA
Dirt-darts I haven’t laughed so much for yonks “LOVE IT”
No problem with pilots building up hours or Australians being employed as long as it is conducted safely and within the regulations.
By the way where did you obtain your dictionary? I looked up “tthe and zropzone” in mine dammed if I can find either and as for dollaros it seems to be the only thing you people are interested in.
PROPSWINGA
Dirt-darts I haven’t laughed so much for yonks “LOVE IT”
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I might have missed something here, but did someone leave the front gate of Morrisset open....again....?
Utedrivingpilot......you are not serious in suggesting that because someone sits beside a pilot, facing backwards, without dual controls, and without ever having actually sat through a landing, that he could somehow be considered as operating crew and get to log the time 50/50?
(Sorry, but I think you might have swallowed a bit of the dirty water at the bottom of the orchy bottle)
Then to suggest that this industry helps pilots get hours (agreed, in principle) and keeps many people employed? The term 'employed' usually means there is some form of renumeration for the work for which one is employed......that certainly isn't the case for most of the pilots as this very forum has discussed time and time again ad nauseum!
Utedrivingpilot......you are not serious in suggesting that because someone sits beside a pilot, facing backwards, without dual controls, and without ever having actually sat through a landing, that he could somehow be considered as operating crew and get to log the time 50/50?
(Sorry, but I think you might have swallowed a bit of the dirty water at the bottom of the orchy bottle)Then to suggest that this industry helps pilots get hours (agreed, in principle) and keeps many people employed? The term 'employed' usually means there is some form of renumeration for the work for which one is employed......that certainly isn't the case for most of the pilots as this very forum has discussed time and time again ad nauseum!
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Seems to me that if these were reclassified as Commercial Ops, then you would need a CPL. That would drive two things:
1. Less cheap (free) pilots, thus more chance of wages.
2. An operators certificate (CASA are looking at that concept for joyflights to replace AOCs).
3. More to lose by breaking the rules, i.e your CPL and OpCert.
4. Safer PFE ops and thus less whinging about them on PPRuNe (but then , it is great entertainment )
Chuck.
1. Less cheap (free) pilots, thus more chance of wages.
2. An operators certificate (CASA are looking at that concept for joyflights to replace AOCs).
3. More to lose by breaking the rules, i.e your CPL and OpCert.
4. Safer PFE ops and thus less whinging about them on PPRuNe (but then , it is great entertainment
)Chuck.
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rs480
Top marks for picking up on my little play with words.
QNIM
Good to see how you picked up on the irony of my wish to Santa (not). However in my day to day flying, which involves flying more than 50 miles from my departure point, these are the groups that give me the most grief. To shut them down is of course quite ridiculous, you just have to learn how to deal with them. Oh and no, I don't hold an instructor rating.
PROPSWINGA
As aggressive as ever, but sorry I cannot read what you don't write. I cannot as yet mind read either. Now this is or at least was a thread about only one operation. An operation which by the sounds of it operates IFR aircraft with IFR pilots on IFR plans. Let's not get all choked up about the rest of the industry.
Tinstaafl
I do not support non-IFR aircraft or non-IFR pilots flying in cloud, however this does not seem to be the case at BH. As for all the other issues you mentioned, they are as in any operation up to the operator. I have worked for charter operations (AOC holders) that were much worse, to my disbelief, than some of the skydive operations I have witnessed and/or flown for.
P.S.
Had a little note put in my letter box. Apparently QNIM used to work for this operator, but got the flick because he wasn't all that crash hot. Hope this isn't just a big gripe, I'm sure he will tell us all it isn't, and how he actually quit, and that he is only interested in pilot safety. Then again I could be wrong.
Top marks for picking up on my little play with words.
QNIM
Good to see how you picked up on the irony of my wish to Santa (not). However in my day to day flying, which involves flying more than 50 miles from my departure point, these are the groups that give me the most grief. To shut them down is of course quite ridiculous, you just have to learn how to deal with them. Oh and no, I don't hold an instructor rating.
PROPSWINGA
As aggressive as ever, but sorry I cannot read what you don't write. I cannot as yet mind read either. Now this is or at least was a thread about only one operation. An operation which by the sounds of it operates IFR aircraft with IFR pilots on IFR plans. Let's not get all choked up about the rest of the industry.
Tinstaafl
I do not support non-IFR aircraft or non-IFR pilots flying in cloud, however this does not seem to be the case at BH. As for all the other issues you mentioned, they are as in any operation up to the operator. I have worked for charter operations (AOC holders) that were much worse, to my disbelief, than some of the skydive operations I have witnessed and/or flown for.
P.S.
Had a little note put in my letter box. Apparently QNIM used to work for this operator, but got the flick because he wasn't all that crash hot. Hope this isn't just a big gripe, I'm sure he will tell us all it isn't, and how he actually quit, and that he is only interested in pilot safety. Then again I could be wrong.
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Duty of Care
As far as CASA will be concerned, the most important thing they are looking for is DUTY OF CARE.
This extends, regardless of operation classification, to all aspects and person involved with the operation of an aircraft. Both commercial, aerial work, or private.
Duty of care is a big phrase. It covers the responsibility of the Pilot, The Parachutist, The refueller, The Operator, The Engineer etc. etc. The duty of care on the Pilot is to themself, there passengers and to members of the public and their property.
This is where the buck stops and this is where our rules and regs and advisories emnate from. It is not so much the reaction of CASA or the APF for that matter, it is the reation of civil litigation after the criminal and coronial findings which would seem quite trivial compared to civil actions.
No matter which aspect of this industry, everybody must ensure that they are excercising due diligence and their responsibilities under the duty of care.
B.D.
This extends, regardless of operation classification, to all aspects and person involved with the operation of an aircraft. Both commercial, aerial work, or private.
Duty of care is a big phrase. It covers the responsibility of the Pilot, The Parachutist, The refueller, The Operator, The Engineer etc. etc. The duty of care on the Pilot is to themself, there passengers and to members of the public and their property.
This is where the buck stops and this is where our rules and regs and advisories emnate from. It is not so much the reaction of CASA or the APF for that matter, it is the reation of civil litigation after the criminal and coronial findings which would seem quite trivial compared to civil actions.
No matter which aspect of this industry, everybody must ensure that they are excercising due diligence and their responsibilities under the duty of care.
B.D.