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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

uxb99 30th Nov 2022 12:53

Does the EU naming Russia as a terrorist state preclude us from negotiations of any kind? An interesting move by the EU. Now even if Russia wanted to negotiate they can't. Russia seems to have backed themselves into a corner only withdrawal or surrender can extricate them from.

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 13:03

Turkey looking at sending a "power ship" to Odesa, I must admit I did earlier wonder if there was such a thing, but didn't mention it for fear of looking more stupid than normal..


NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 13:07

Meanwhile in Siberia, have a huge Z on wall, will have a smoking accident..


NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 13:12

Forget your Lada's, Towels and greeting cards, support the families of locals mobilised with Ice... :}


Andrewgr2 30th Nov 2022 13:57


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11339853)
Turkey looking at sending a "power ship" to Odesa, I must admit I did earlier wonder if there was such a thing, but didn't mention it for fear of looking more stupid than normal..



https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...DUyfePga0sAAAA

Sounds good but 300MW is less than a typical conventional power station. For comparison, Drax, admittedly the UKs largest conventional power station, has a maximum output of 3.9GW or the equivalent of about 39 of these power ships which seem to be 100MW each. Still, I’m sure UKR will be grateful for every bit of power it can get.

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 14:58

:sad:


Wokkafans 30th Nov 2022 16:59


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11339897)

(C)ameraman: Are you done?

(M)ortarman: Wait a bit.

(R)adio1: I'm 300! I'm 300! ****!!! Arrrgh!!!

C: ****...

M: What?

C : Somebody's screaming that they are wounded.

M: Who?

C: Don't know. Come on, faster.

M: Almost done.

R2: All groups, pull back to the nearest 5-story buildings, I repeat, pull back...

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 17:41

It says here that the driver went to the hospital, probably wounded after he had left with another casualty? Or is it translated wrong?

https://targum.video/v/2022/11/30/2c...0b4b25e67a93a1

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 18:30

Hmmmm, it sounds like someone’s just put her foot in it.


Ukraine's losses since the beginning of the war amounted to more than 100. 000 soldiers" - Ursula von der Leyen P.S. Where the head of the European Commission took such figures is unknown. Most likely, by losses we mean not only the dead, but also the wounded.

100 thousand people is not only the number of dead, but also injured, - the director of political communications of the European Commission Dana Spinant explained the mistake of Ursula von der Leyen

The information about the losses is "sensitive", so it can only be announced by the Commander-in-Chief, the Minister of Defense or the President himself, said Nikiforov, the President's spokesman. The public asked the EC where Ursula von der Leyen got the information from the.

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 19:16

Well done Zelensky, hopefully that will shut the loudmouth up or open his eyes.


Lonewolf_50 30th Nov 2022 20:00


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11339992)
Hmmmm, it sounds like someone’s just put her foot in it.
https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/...DQucy656wsAAAA

Nice OPSEC, bitch. :mad:

langleybaston 30th Nov 2022 20:19


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11340042)
Nice OPSEC, bitch. :mad:

OPSEC?

It may be more subtle than a breech, it may be a come-on, it may be disinformation.

More likely there is the problem of reaching a certain level which involves "need to know" morphing into "need to show off that I know".

The 100,000 figure is probably what used to be called "casualties" ...... assets no longer functioning as assets.
As in approximately 3 wounded to one dead, plus missing [often dead[ plus PoW [often better dead], desertions, sick. Great War and WW II figures suggest a surprisingly high number of ineffectives return to the fray, wiser and more able. The side with the higher morale and moral purpose recycles a higher percentage.

uxb99 30th Nov 2022 20:26


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11339992)
Hmmmm, it sounds like someone’s just put her foot in it.









https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/...DQucy656wsAAAA

Wasn't this already inferred though? Ministry of defence a while ago stated some 200'000 casualties (maybe more, can't remember) from all sides including 40k civilian.
Taking known Russian casualties, it doesn't take a genius to work out that it hasn't been a walk in the park for the Ukrainians.

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 20:38


Originally Posted by langleybaston (Post 11340051)
OPSEC?

It may be more subtle than a breech, it may be a come-on, it may be disinformation.

More likely there is the problem of reaching a certain level which involves "need to know" morphing into "need to show off that I know".

The 100,000 figure is probably what used to be called "casualties" ...... assets no longer functioning as assets.
As in approximately 3 wounded to one dead, plus missing [often dead[ plus PoW [often better dead], desertions, sick. Great War and WW II figures suggest a surprisingly high number of ineffectives return to the fray, wiser and more able. The side with the higher morale and moral purpose recycles a higher percentage.

Yes OPSEC, it works against you putting the details out as it gives Russia information as to possibly the current Ukrainian strength, both those in the field and also a rough idea of those held in reserve.
It also can effect your populations perceptions and moral of how well your forces are doing and worrying those with family members serving, it can also reduce volunteers coming forward for service.
It prevents Russian media and propagandist’s having a media field day over the figures, thus bolstering their publics perception’s.
So Yes, OPESEC, there are strong reasons for not disclosing those figures and hence why Ukraine has always kept the figures to themselves and rightly so.
Why do you think both sides tend to “exaggerate” opposition losses, it is both for their own publics consumption to show the World how well you are doing.

​​​​​​…

FUMR 30th Nov 2022 21:16

Horrendous as it is, if the Ukrainian casualties are indeed around the 100,000 mark, then, based on what we've witnessed in terms of their combat capabilities, the Russian figures may well be double if not triple that.

langleybaston 30th Nov 2022 21:20


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11340058)
Yes OPSEC, it works against you putting the details out as it gives Russia information as to possibly the current Ukrainian strength, both those in the field and also a rough idea of those held in reserve.
It also can effect your populations perceptions and moral of how well your forces are doing and worrying those with family members serving, it can also reduce volunteers coming forward for service.
It prevents Russian media and propagandist’s having a media field day over the figures, thus bolstering their publics perception’s.
So Yes, OPESEC, there are strong reasons for not disclosing those figures and hence why Ukraine has always kept the figures to themselves and rightly so.
Why do you think both sides tend to “exaggerate” opposition losses, it is both for their own publics consumption to show the World how well you are doing.

​​​​​​…

Please re-read my offering on OPSEC, to which you appear to take exception. The matter is far more nuanced than "bitch!" as I tried to explain.

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 21:29


Originally Posted by langleybaston (Post 11340079)
Please re-read my offering on OPSEC, to which you appear to take exception. The matter is far more nuanced than "bitch!" as I tried to explain.

No, I was agreeing with Lonewolfs assessment as to it being piss poor of her. not taking exception to your post which I agree with. :)
Sorry if it sounded otherwise.
how’s this for sharpshooting lol.


NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 21:40

prisoners


ORAC 30th Nov 2022 22:12

​​​​​​​CNN- "The Biden administration is considering a dramatic expansion in the training the US military provides to Ukrainian forces, including instructing as many as 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers a month at a US base in Germany, according to multiple US officials."

NutLoose 30th Nov 2022 23:02

They would be better off giving them long range weapons as well to thwart the resupply of the Russian troops in theatre, training more troops is only one facet, destroying the Russian meat grinders ability to replenish, destroys their ability to wage war..


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