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AUKUS

Old 29th Oct 2021, 04:37
  #601 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
.
But how you'd get half a sub down here, or up there... maybe I'm reading it too literally.
Heavy lift ships. Same way both canberra and adelaide were shipped to williamstown from spain.

http://www.seapixonline.com/NSImages...17-10-2012.jpg

That maybe impractical because they dont want to float the section so they might make into 3-4 bits, reactor, 1-2 engineering sections and the propulsor and just use a crane to load and unload from a bulk carrier. Now that I think about sections is the way easier than a lift ship
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 07:34
  #602 (permalink)  
 
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Jed Babbin was pretty accurate about our Gallic chums.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 10:27
  #603 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
The way I read the latest story was it was being suggested that Oz would build the entire front half, the US the entire back half, and then they'd be mated.
Could've stuck with the French boats for that!


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Old 29th Oct 2021, 11:07
  #604 (permalink)  
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HMS Astute has just arrived in Perth. What a coincidence. Expect to see an announcement of her being based there in the not too distant future or even transferred to the RAN

Last edited by Navaleye; 29th Oct 2021 at 11:24.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 11:14
  #605 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder View Post
Fair enough, he has an election early next year and has to play to his domestic audience.
It’s much more than that. With Merkel going he assumes he will be the new top dog in the EU.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 14:41
  #606 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder View Post
Fair enough, he has an election early next year and has to play to his domestic audience. However, he must realise that France needs the US,UK and AU far more in the Pacific, than they need France.
Are you sure about that ? I don t think so !
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 15:08
  #607 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Navaleye View Post
HMS Astute has just arrived in Perth. What a coincidence. Expect to see an announcement of her being based there in the not too distant future or even transferred to the RAN
Doesn’t prove anything of course, but it could very well be seen as straws in the wind. Doubt a permanent transfer is on the cards, but a long-term deployment would certainly provide scope for the training and familiarisation of both crew and base support personnel.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 16:12
  #608 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Navaleye View Post
HMS Astute has just arrived in Perth. What a coincidence. Expect to see an announcement of her being based there in the not too distant future or even transferred to the RAN
Forward based - possibly. Transfer - no. We need seven SSNs to provide cover for CASD, contribute to NATO operations in the North Atlantic and High North, contribute to the carrier/amphibious based task group, and operate in the Middle East.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 16:22
  #609 (permalink)  
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Bit difficult to do any of those from Perth…..
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 20:18
  #610 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Bit difficult to do any of those from Perth…..
One of the jobs is the escort of carriers, if/ when POW is based in Oman can see its escort spending its spare time in australia
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 20:37
  #611 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rattman View Post
One of the jobs is the escort of carriers, if/ when POW is based in Oman can see its escort spending its spare time in australia
Not sure how you use a submarine as an escort*, but you do have a point.

*Coordinated ASW is the phrase you want. On which note, I wonder if any ASW related programmes are part of AUKUS? RAN ASW helicopters have taken part in UK/NATO exercises.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 20:49
  #612 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic View Post
Not sure how you use a submarine as an escort*, but you do have a point.

*Coordinated ASW is the phrase you want. On which note, I wonder if any ASW related programmes are part of AUKUS? RAN ASW helicopters have taken part in UK/NATO exercises.
standard doctrine has US and UK carrier battle groups having an SSN as part of the escort, CSG 21 actually has artful, so naval news might be wrong on saying it was part of the carrier group because MOD lists it as artful and not astute

as to the ASW australia has been focusing on it, with the new M-60R's and 14 posiedens

Last edited by rattman; 29th Oct 2021 at 21:02.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 21:58
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Not so much escort as consort. Saying the carrier has escorts suggests that the other warships in a task group just defend the carrier, and that the carrier is passive. Submarines and frigates (in RN terminology) work in conjunction with the ASW helicopters. Continuously operating ASW helicopters around the clock requires a big deck with multiple aircraft.

Likewise a carrier's fighters are frequently controlled by an AAW destroyer.

All of this provides a defence over a large area, and the carrier may be used to protect things like amphibious forces or seaborne logistics - which was the main role of US and UK carriers during the Cold War, and is coming back to the fore in a new era of great power competition.

There must be a better term than 'escort'.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 22:25
  #614 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic View Post

There must be a better term than 'escort'.
Just terminology in the end. Even the MOD cant be consistent, saw artful listed as part of the escorts making up CSG21, then latter they said CSG 21 + artful. In the end what ever term you want to use for it US and UK carrier battlegroups always have an SSN as a member of the CSG/CBG. Which for 21 is artful and not Astute.
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Old 29th Oct 2021, 23:46
  #615 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rattman View Post
as to the ASW australia has been focusing on it, with the new M-60R's and 14 posiedens
There is probably more likelihood too, of the Canberra Class LHD's having more of an ASW role with Allies, than landing mechanised infantry throughout the Pacific. A Canberra class LHD with a squadron of MH-60R's, would go some way in beefing up the single helicopter warships of the RAN and prove somewhat more useful than their envisioned amphibious roles in the event of Indo-Paciic naval conflict .

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 30th Oct 2021 at 02:26.
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Old 30th Oct 2021, 03:46
  #616 (permalink)  
 
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Article in the New York Times today expressing doubt over the whole project. Starting to look like too much submarine. No way are they going to be built in Adelaide. That is fantasy land.Hope this is not a fiasco in the making. Did everybody have their grownup pants on when they signed up for it ??
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Old 30th Oct 2021, 04:43
  #617 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alt Flieger View Post
. Starting to look like too much submarine. No way are they going to be built in Adelaide. That is fantasy land.Hope this is not a fiasco in the making
Always said virginia is to much submarine. If you can figure out the reactor issue astute is a better buy for us. Cheaper, faster, quieter and less crew. Assuming VLS is not a big thing astute has more synergies with the RAN as it looks to be a more antisub focus
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Old 30th Oct 2021, 10:33
  #618 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
Guess it's just interpretation.
The way I read the latest story was it was being suggested that Oz would build the entire front half, the US the entire back half, and then they'd be mated.
Both the Virginia and Astute boats are assembled in modules after all, so I suppose it's technically possible.
Wow.
Do both share the same Crossection?
If not who wins?
Or do you always go for the bigger of the two dimensions?
In an always cramped Sub if you need to squeeze your crap in a narrower or lower Hull, all Off- the- Shelf goes out the window and you start basically from scratch. Also all the piping and wiring will be a nightmare to combine.
This approach clearly sounds 'interesting'.
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Old 30th Oct 2021, 10:58
  #619 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by henra View Post
Wow.
Do both share the same Crossection?
If not who wins?
Or do you always go for the bigger of the two dimensions?
In an always cramped Sub if you need to squeeze your crap in a narrower or lower Hull, all Off- the- Shelf goes out the window and you start basically from scratch. Also all the piping and wiring will be a nightmare to combine.
This approach clearly sounds 'interesting'.
Hes not saying build the front half of an astute and tack it on to the back half of a virginia.



Submarines are built is sections and assembled together. Same way planes are built and even many ships are buiilt as blocks
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Old 30th Oct 2021, 12:06
  #620 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rattman View Post
Submarines are built is sections and assembled together.
Indeed. Many internal modules, like the command deck, are also built separately then slid into the partially assembled hull.



The UK builds SSN & SSBN in a small town in NE England. I fail to see why so many hold the Australians to be incapable of replicating these facilities. True, the reactors and some other internal systems will have to be imported, but the rest is just marine engineering. What's the problem?
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