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AUKUS

Old 4th Nov 2021, 09:10
  #661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 4,549
"I haven’t heard much about is how the US and UK were convinced to hand over the Crown Jewels of submarine technology"

A great deal is secret of course but I'm pretty sure the Russians have access to most of it anyway - the real challenge is BUILDING the boats according to the spec.......
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2021, 09:41
  #662 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 647
Originally Posted by Buster Hyman View Post
If they make a base in Pt. Hedland, then please, carry on...
Looking further hard to see if its was actually signed or still under negoiation. If it was under negoiation its a dead duck


French warships and troops would be given guaranteed access to Australian naval bases and military sites under a proposal being discussed by both countries, as the federal government moves to lock in the next stage of its troubled $90 billion future submarine program next week.
That was a news report from the 10th a few days before aukus
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Old 5th Nov 2021, 18:52
  #663 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
Looking at the French helicopters in Oz service, I can understand why we didn't want their submarines either.

Scomo is doing the right think for our country, tough luck for France that they are not getting our billion$.
French helicopters are fighting wars all over the world, looks like the ozzie armed forces are not up to the job ! I wonder how would you deal with nuke subs ?
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Old 5th Nov 2021, 18:56
  #664 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by rattman View Post
Honestly still surprised we haven't cancelled the open bases agreement with the french.
Why should France need any bases in Australia ? France has territories in all oceans on earth, why do we need anything from you ?
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Old 5th Nov 2021, 21:14
  #665 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
I suspect balboa is recceguy with another posting name.
Ignore him and he will just go away. Replying to his drivel just keeps giving him oxygen.
rjtjrt is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2021, 21:42
  #666 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
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The French will eventually need close alignment in the Pacific to counter China. Their EEZ's around their territories will at a convenient stage, be targeted by China. It's a pity Australia and France couldn't work through their differences: one wanted a submarine capability and the other a "relationship" with bottomless finance to provide shipyard jobs in Brittany.


BTW. Germany is looking to ditch their Tiger helicopters too. That's if they can get past the Franco-German politics and buy American. Or perhaps they'd prefer not to upset France and have 8 of 50 Tigers available at any time?
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Old 6th Nov 2021, 00:40
  #667 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 647
Originally Posted by golder View Post
America may even follow Australia’s lead by fielding a similar Gulfstream-based replacement for their EC-130 Compass Call electronic warfare aircraft.
Slightly OT but with australia whipping out its cheque book recently, assuming the brazilian government would let if go we should buy embraer. For about 4.5 billion AUD seems an interesting buy, the E-jets are quite popular in australia, the 390 seems an interesting possible replacement for the hercs. The govt recently funded telstra to buy the pacific telecom network, maybe someone could buy embraer with financial assistance from the government
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Old 6th Nov 2021, 02:27
  #668 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Why should France need any bases in Australia ? France has territories in all oceans on earth, why do we need anything from you
You need Australia so you have a refueling point to get to your Pacific territories, we see your military pass through whenever they are in transit.

PS: you going to turn up at Pitch Black 2022?
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Old 6th Nov 2021, 02:49
  #669 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Oz
Posts: 71
And France needs to maintain a presence in the Pacific exactly why ?
Fond memories of a long distant past ?
Take away the Force de Frappe and France is only a middle power with no power projection capability.
Why do they pretend they are are a tier 1 power ? What is the strategic justification?
We should have gone with the Soryu class.
The French contract was always a dumb idea.
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Old 6th Nov 2021, 03:00
  #670 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
You need Australia so you have a refueling point to get to your Pacific territories, we see your military pass through whenever they are in transit.

PS: you going to turn up at Pitch Black 2022?
Betting the invitation is going to be lost in the mail
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Old 6th Nov 2021, 03:08
  #671 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 252
Originally Posted by rattman View Post
Honestly still surprised we haven't cancelled the open bases agreement with the french.
I'm happy to tease the croaking frogs. They don't realise that they live in a little pond and think they are a world power.
Even though France needs Australian bases, more than Australia needs France. Military to military alliances don't work like that and will be fine at the end of the day. These 2 clowns, playing for re-election early next year. Will sooner or later be out of office. I'll be surprised if Rafales weren't at Pitch Black next year.
golder is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2021, 04:54
  #672 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post
France had the largest Army in Europe at the start of WW2 and had months of the phoney War to prepare for the German invasion and still lost....
TBM the post was not about win or loose. It was about people stating they just rolled up and went back to cheese and wine. Same with Italy and the cracks about 8 reverse gears and one forward. As in any defence force there are some very brave people and some brave people. When we have had centuries of war that flow into millennium, perhaps our cultural attitude towards war may be far more pragmatic.

In respect to balboa1968, please do not scare him off. I haven't laughed so hard for a long time. I can not think of anything more funny than an arrogant ignoramus . The arrogance of a Frenchman (we are the best lovers, drinkers, smokers, fighters, viva la France) combined with the ignorance of an American (we won WW1, WW11, and have saved the world and continue to do so) is a comic combination that is unbeatable.

finestkind is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2021, 08:45
  #673 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 4,549
"Take away the Force de Frappe and France is only a middle power with no power projection capability."

Could say much the same about one of the other AUSUS partners I guess - but the French would point out they actually own their missiles - they don't rent them by the hour
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2021, 12:49
  #674 (permalink)  
Drain Bamaged
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Earth
Age: 54
Posts: 486
lol
Say whatever you want about French loosing wars. Doesn't matter who helped or not along the way, fact is France is still called France, still French speaking with its French culture, food, etc...

Grow some balls, stop complaining and just do like them:
Have your own aviation, missile, boat, submarine industries so you can keep your "Independence" and choose whatever weird local options you want to add to your war toys.

Oops... Sorry, you cannot! But you will still going to blame the French because it's fashionable
ehwatezedoing is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2021, 21:57
  #675 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 252
We do like to have Tier 1 toys though, unlike France. We can also keep an aircraft in the air. After a French Google, your aircraft availability is in the 50% range. Even Russia does better than that. You guys still can't get an engine to work.

Haute intensité : L'aviation de combat française présente des fragilités qui peinent à se réduire - Zone Militaire
“Taking into account the issues related to the engine and the level of operational support [NSO], the operational technical availability [DTO] of the Rafale [air and navy] reached 55.8% in the first half of 2021. The Mirage D availability, 32.4%

Last edited by golder; 7th Nov 2021 at 22:32.
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Old 7th Nov 2021, 22:41
  #676 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 647
The french ambassador addressed the national press club. Tried to watch it but after 20 minutes of whinning and lieing about the sub deal just turned it off


Kept going on about how france was giving australia "national secrets" about it nuclear subs. Also omitted they are submitting the same design to india P-75i, so giving them to india as well
rattman is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2021, 23:39
  #677 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 252
They were just designing the physical sub, The US were providing the 'secret' electronics and weapons.
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Old 8th Nov 2021, 00:20
  #678 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 647
Originally Posted by golder View Post
They were just designing the physical sub, The US were providing the 'secret' electronics and weapons.
Yep they were providing the hull which they are also trying to provide to india, they were going to provide the propulsion which logic says its just going to be upgraded tech from the scorpenes, which are currently used or on order by 6 countries.
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Old 8th Nov 2021, 02:22
  #679 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Oz
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by golder View Post
They were just designing the physical sub, The US were providing the 'secret' electronics and weapons.
It was always a question mark over the project as whether or not the USA would be happy to install a combat control system on a French sub.
They leak like a sieve after all.
And for those who are dismissive about Australia’s technical ability , you are ignorant.
I worked for DRCS and DSTO back in the 80s and can tell you the research and development capability is substantial.
Australia made a deliberate decision to walk away from nuclear power back in the70’s. Billy McMahon didn’t like it. Big mistake.
But we could do it in a heart-beat if we wanted to.
Alt Flieger is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2021, 03:21
  #680 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by ehwatezedoing View Post
lol
Say whatever you want about French loosing wars. Doesn't matter who helped or not along the way, fact is France is still called France, still French speaking with its French culture, food, etc...

Grow some balls, stop complaining and just do like them:
Have your own aviation, missile, boat, submarine industries so you can keep your "Independence" and choose whatever weird local options you want to add to your war toys.

Oops... Sorry, you cannot! But you will still going to blame the French because it's fashionable
France is still France. So do you mean that France is no different to what it was 40, 80 years ago?

Basic economics. It is cheaper to buy something that someone else has designed, tested, and produced than to do so yourself especially when you have a relatively small population. Basic economics’ and a move away from who has the biggest genitals as a way of proving superiority.

Blaming the French? I think the angst is coming from the French as it appears that contractual obligation, inclusive of exit clauses, was adhered too.
finestkind is offline  

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