AUKUS
Joined: Oct 2014
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From: USA
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,238
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From: Eden Valley
The French will eventually need close alignment in the Pacific to counter China. Their EEZ's around their territories will at a convenient stage, be targeted by China. It's a pity Australia and France couldn't work through their differences: one wanted a submarine capability and the other a "relationship" with bottomless finance to provide shipyard jobs in Brittany.
BTW. Germany is looking to ditch their Tiger helicopters too. That's if they can get past the Franco-German politics and buy American. Or perhaps they'd prefer not to upset France and have 8 of 50 Tigers available at any time?
BTW. Germany is looking to ditch their Tiger helicopters too. That's if they can get past the Franco-German politics and buy American. Or perhaps they'd prefer not to upset France and have 8 of 50 Tigers available at any time?
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
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From: aus
America may even follow Australia’s lead by fielding a similar Gulfstream-based replacement for their EC-130 Compass Call electronic warfare aircraft.
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
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From: Aus
Why should France need any bases in Australia ? France has territories in all oceans on earth, why do we need anything from you
PS: you going to turn up at Pitch Black 2022?
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 71
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From: Oz
And France needs to maintain a presence in the Pacific exactly why ?
Fond memories of a long distant past ?
Take away the Force de Frappe and France is only a middle power with no power projection capability.
Why do they pretend they are are a tier 1 power ? What is the strategic justification?
We should have gone with the Soryu class.
The French contract was always a dumb idea.
Fond memories of a long distant past ?
Take away the Force de Frappe and France is only a middle power with no power projection capability.
Why do they pretend they are are a tier 1 power ? What is the strategic justification?
We should have gone with the Soryu class.
The French contract was always a dumb idea.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
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From: aus
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 638
Likes: 101
From: australia
Even though France needs Australian bases, more than Australia needs France. Military to military alliances don't work like that and will be fine at the end of the day. These 2 clowns, playing for re-election early next year. Will sooner or later be out of office. I'll be surprised if Rafales weren't at Pitch Black next year.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 472
Likes: 13
From: SAUDI
In respect to balboa1968, please do not scare him off. I haven't laughed so hard for a long time. I can not think of anything more funny than an arrogant ignoramus . The arrogance of a Frenchman (we are the best lovers, drinkers, smokers, fighters, viva la France) combined with the ignorance of an American (we won WW1, WW11, and have saved the world and continue to do so) is a comic combination that is unbeatable.
Joined: Oct 2018
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From: Ferrara
"Take away the Force de Frappe and France is only a middle power with no power projection capability."
Could say much the same about one of the other AUSUS partners I guess - but the French would point out they actually own their missiles - they don't rent them by the hour
Could say much the same about one of the other AUSUS partners I guess - but the French would point out they actually own their missiles - they don't rent them by the hour
Drain Bamaged
Joined: Mar 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 569
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From: Earth
lol
Say whatever you want about French loosing wars. Doesn't matter who helped or not along the way, fact is France is still called France, still French speaking with its French culture, food, etc...
Grow some balls, stop complaining and just do like them:
Have your own aviation, missile, boat, submarine industries so you can keep your "Independence" and choose whatever weird local options you want to add to your war toys.
Oops... Sorry, you cannot! But you will still going to blame the French because it's fashionable
Say whatever you want about French loosing wars. Doesn't matter who helped or not along the way, fact is France is still called France, still French speaking with its French culture, food, etc...
Grow some balls, stop complaining and just do like them:
Have your own aviation, missile, boat, submarine industries so you can keep your "Independence" and choose whatever weird local options you want to add to your war toys.
Oops... Sorry, you cannot! But you will still going to blame the French because it's fashionable
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 638
Likes: 101
From: australia
We do like to have Tier 1 toys though, unlike France. We can also keep an aircraft in the air. After a French Google, your aircraft availability is in the 50% range. Even Russia does better than that. You guys still can't get an engine to work.
Haute intensité : L'aviation de combat française présente des fragilités qui peinent à se réduire - Zone Militaire
“Taking into account the issues related to the engine and the level of operational support [NSO], the operational technical availability [DTO] of the Rafale [air and navy] reached 55.8% in the first half of 2021. The Mirage D availability, 32.4%
Haute intensité : L'aviation de combat française présente des fragilités qui peinent à se réduire - Zone Militaire
“Taking into account the issues related to the engine and the level of operational support [NSO], the operational technical availability [DTO] of the Rafale [air and navy] reached 55.8% in the first half of 2021. The Mirage D availability, 32.4%
Last edited by golder; 7th November 2021 at 22:32.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
Likes: 205
From: aus
The french ambassador addressed the national press club. Tried to watch it but after 20 minutes of whinning and lieing about the sub deal just turned it off
Kept going on about how france was giving australia "national secrets" about it nuclear subs. Also omitted they are submitting the same design to india P-75i, so giving them to india as well
Kept going on about how france was giving australia "national secrets" about it nuclear subs. Also omitted they are submitting the same design to india P-75i, so giving them to india as well
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
Likes: 205
From: aus
Yep they were providing the hull which they are also trying to provide to india, they were going to provide the propulsion which logic says its just going to be upgraded tech from the scorpenes, which are currently used or on order by 6 countries.
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 71
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From: Oz
They leak like a sieve after all.
And for those who are dismissive about Australia’s technical ability , you are ignorant.
I worked for DRCS and DSTO back in the 80s and can tell you the research and development capability is substantial.
Australia made a deliberate decision to walk away from nuclear power back in the70’s. Billy McMahon didn’t like it. Big mistake.
But we could do it in a heart-beat if we wanted to.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 472
Likes: 13
From: SAUDI
lol
Say whatever you want about French loosing wars. Doesn't matter who helped or not along the way, fact is France is still called France, still French speaking with its French culture, food, etc...
Grow some balls, stop complaining and just do like them:
Have your own aviation, missile, boat, submarine industries so you can keep your "Independence" and choose whatever weird local options you want to add to your war toys.
Oops... Sorry, you cannot! But you will still going to blame the French because it's fashionable
Say whatever you want about French loosing wars. Doesn't matter who helped or not along the way, fact is France is still called France, still French speaking with its French culture, food, etc...
Grow some balls, stop complaining and just do like them:
Have your own aviation, missile, boat, submarine industries so you can keep your "Independence" and choose whatever weird local options you want to add to your war toys.
Oops... Sorry, you cannot! But you will still going to blame the French because it's fashionable
Basic economics. It is cheaper to buy something that someone else has designed, tested, and produced than to do so yourself especially when you have a relatively small population. Basic economics’ and a move away from who has the biggest genitals as a way of proving superiority.
Blaming the French? I think the angst is coming from the French as it appears that contractual obligation, inclusive of exit clauses, was adhered too.
Joined: Oct 2018
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From: Ferrara
"And for those who are dismissive about Australia’s technical ability , you are ignorant. I worked for DRCS and DSTO back in the 80s and can tell you the research and development capability is substantial."
I don't think anyone disagrees - the problem isn't R&D - it's building them to time and cost . The shipyard in S Australia hasn't a great record on delivery - but that's not just an Australian problem - Canada, Russia & India all struggle. Even the USA and UK have problems - modern warships, like modern combat aircraft, are fiendishly difficult to build
I don't think anyone disagrees - the problem isn't R&D - it's building them to time and cost . The shipyard in S Australia hasn't a great record on delivery - but that's not just an Australian problem - Canada, Russia & India all struggle. Even the USA and UK have problems - modern warships, like modern combat aircraft, are fiendishly difficult to build
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
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From: Peripatetic
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...submarine-deal
Australia promises jobs to workers stranded by scrapping of French submarine deal
“Each and every” skilled shipbuilding worker affected by the federal government’s decision to scrap the existing $90bn submarine project and switch to nuclear-powered boats will have a job in the future, defence industry minister Melissa Price says.
As ongoing controversies surround the plan, Price will tell a major submarine conference in Adelaide on Tuesday that the submarines will be built in South Australia……
Defence officials told senate estimates in October that the future of up to 600 construction jobs was uncertain after the government scrapped the existing project. Another 560 people are employed directly on the existing project.
Many companies had invested in resources to become part of the supply chain for the submarines that were being bought from France’s Naval Group.
In a pre-recorded message Price said she understood the uncertainty the decision had created. She said small and medium businesses affected would be supported to compete for future work across defence programs, and that individual workers would find new jobs through a sovereign shipbuilding talent pool.
Workers will be redeployed to other projects, such as maintenance of and upgrades to the Collins-class submarines, or placed with overseas shipbuilders or governments. Others will have the opportunity to get new skills, or train in nuclear power.
“We have a solid commitment to find a role within that pool for each and every skilled shipbuilding worker affected by this announcement,” Price said.
“We will be building nuclear-powered submarines in South Australia.”….
Australia promises jobs to workers stranded by scrapping of French submarine deal
“Each and every” skilled shipbuilding worker affected by the federal government’s decision to scrap the existing $90bn submarine project and switch to nuclear-powered boats will have a job in the future, defence industry minister Melissa Price says.
As ongoing controversies surround the plan, Price will tell a major submarine conference in Adelaide on Tuesday that the submarines will be built in South Australia……
Defence officials told senate estimates in October that the future of up to 600 construction jobs was uncertain after the government scrapped the existing project. Another 560 people are employed directly on the existing project.
Many companies had invested in resources to become part of the supply chain for the submarines that were being bought from France’s Naval Group.
In a pre-recorded message Price said she understood the uncertainty the decision had created. She said small and medium businesses affected would be supported to compete for future work across defence programs, and that individual workers would find new jobs through a sovereign shipbuilding talent pool.
Workers will be redeployed to other projects, such as maintenance of and upgrades to the Collins-class submarines, or placed with overseas shipbuilders or governments. Others will have the opportunity to get new skills, or train in nuclear power.
“We have a solid commitment to find a role within that pool for each and every skilled shipbuilding worker affected by this announcement,” Price said.
“We will be building nuclear-powered submarines in South Australia.”….