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AUKUS

Old 15th Sep 2021, 21:04
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AUKUS

Australia, UK and Us sign new treaty to share nuclear submarine secrets and build a fleet and operate of nuclear hunter-killer submarines (SSN not SSBN) based in Adelaide.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bid...co-2021-09-15/

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-a...15-p58rzz.html
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 21:13
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Based in Western Australia. Perhaps built in Adelaide?

Extraordinarily decisive new direction which is in part rather alarming. Long range bombers, in some form, will be next. The new Treaty driving a number of possibilities in this area.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 21:17
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Significance absence is, perhaps, NZ out….
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 21:19
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Significance is, perhaps, NZ outÖ.
No Nukes Policy!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ze...lear-free_zone
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 21:23
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Perhaps also their seeming policy of appeasement towards Chinese sanctions and trade policy rather than support Australia and other allies.

NZ would seem to be rapidly approaching a point where they will have to take sides in an increasing Cold War in the pacific.

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pa...ift-over-china
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 21:39
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Perhaps also their seeming policy of appeasement towards Chinese sanctions and trade policy rather than support Australia and other allies.

NZ would seem to be rapidly approaching a point where they will have to take sides in an increasing Cold War in the pacific.

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pa...ift-over-china
Thatís an interesting thought ORAC. Could the Chinese add NZ as a client state? Talk about making the Ozzies paranoid. I donít think so, but itís not beyond the Chinese to make a run at it.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 22:02
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NZ is an agrarian economy, very dependant upon China and cleaning up in any Sino-Australian trade disputes. Its defence force has been relegated toward a paramilitary like status in many areas however, it plays an important role in the South Pacific: fisheries patrol, disaster relief and humanitarian roles.

Great to have the Brit's back. Deployments welcomed.

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 15th Sep 2021 at 22:24.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 23:13
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Several years ago I asked here why Australia was not acquiring nuclear boats from the US - and was roundly mocked by many on the forum who thought they knew better.
Well, time seems to be proving me right.
I think this is an excellent decision... more detail awaited with great interest.
And I hope that somewhere in Canberra - someone is lobbying to get some B-21s as well.

Yep - the Greens have started to whine already:"I also do think that it is attempting to gain a beachhead for a nuclear industry in Australia, which we know has been something that the Coalition, many people in the Coalition have been pushing for, for some period of time.

But at the end of the day, the prime minister needs to explain Ė what will happen if thereís an accident with a nuclear reactor now in the heart of one of our major cities?

How many people in Brisbane, Adelaide or Perth will die as a result of it?

What is going to happen if there is a problem with one of the nuclear reactors? And today weíve heard nothing about the safety.
Well, these will be floating Chernobyls in the heart of our major cities. And it will increase tensions in our region at a time when Australia, as a middle power, should be taking an independent course and doing everything that we can to de-escalate conflict in the region."
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 23:27
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After this sinks in, I’ll be curious to see the man on the street reaction in Australia. Was under the impression anything nuclear was taboo.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 23:33
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The history of submarine warfare mainly covers the North Atlantic in both World Wars and the Cold War. However for those who are interested do a bit of searching on submarine warfare in the Pacific during WW2 and you will discover the significant role the submarine base at Fremantle played in strangling Japanese maritime traffic. Essentially the Allies did to the Japanese what the Germans tried to do to England. I have no doubt that somewhere behind these plans for a nuclear powered sub, which is a very significant shift from Australia's policy on how their subs are to be powered, is the history of the last maritime conflict in the Indo Pacific. I also wonder if they have received information about Chinese detection capability of conventionally powered subs.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 23:38
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
After this sinks in, Iíll be curious to see the man on the street reaction in Australia. Was under the impression anything nuclear was taboo.
You're right - it is.
The Australian anti-nuclear lobby is loud and utterly scientifically ignorant.
Despite having some of the worlds greatest reserves of yellow cake, a need for carbon neutral power, revitalisation of domestic manufacturing and building of STEM capability.
Not to mention China.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 23:39
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Soundly in favour of it, about time we ditched the (polluting) diesel subs and went nuclear. We are a huge source of uranium, though it will need overseas processing to become fuel rods.

The French contract was a horse's arse, massive modifications to make it sort of suitable, and driven by politicians wanting some of the action in their electorates. Also not delivered till 2035, about 10 years after China takes over Hong Kong and Taiwan and a bunch of other islands in the Philippines and Indonesia.

Typical Greens, screeching about explosions in the capital cities. Can we turn them into Soylent Greens?
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 23:47
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At an ADFA open day a few years ago, I had a long discussion with a senior RAN submariner.
He hinted they already spend a lot of time cruising around in the South China sea itself - shallow water.
The supposed rationale for diesel electric boats was primarily that they are quieter and smaller than nuclear boats.
The current quietest sub in the world is Swedish and diesel/electric.
I suspect that in the classified world - the capability of long range UUVs is getting to the point that nuclear mother boat will be able to sit in deeper water for months and dispatch loyal seamen (tee hee) to sneak in and do the ultra quiet shallow water stuff.
I wonder whether the RAN will get off the shelf Virginia class boats, or the Astute class and what the weapon load out will be.
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Old 15th Sep 2021, 23:57
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I suspect we will get Astute class as UK shipbuilding of Astute class will be running down in not too distant future. Aust will build them in Australia but with a lot of stuff made in UK. Apparently US needed to give approve for UK to sell some of their nuclear reactor tech to Aust..
I also can’t see us getting 12 subs now. Fewer needed given nuclear range and speed. This will mean easier for us to crew them (even though they have larger crews) as submariners are not in plentiful supply. However we will need to get a lot of new crew and maintenance skills that will take a long time to mature. A lot of help will be needed from US and UK for basically ever.
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 00:00
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I'm not so sure about partnering with Australia given how they've been treating their population over the past 18 months. The actions get more and more extreme.
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 00:07
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Originally Posted by unmanned_droid View Post
I'm not so sure about partnering with Australia given how they've been treating their population over the past 18 months. The actions get more and more extreme.
Righto champion
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 00:13
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An interesting article here on the thinking - with an map showing time on station in South East Asia for nuclear boats - 77 days.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ubmarine-force
The articles talking about Australia being part of the Indo-Pacific that have been appearing in Australian media over the last few weeks now start to make a lot of sense.
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 00:28
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Just remember The Greens don’t run Australia, so their opinion is worth SFA!


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Old 16th Sep 2021, 00:41
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Originally Posted by Stationair8 View Post
Just remember The Greens donít run Australia, so their opinion is worth SFA!
Thank Christ...
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Old 16th Sep 2021, 01:28
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The capitalists in Washington, London and Canberra have nothing but a hammer therefore Chinese economic growth can only be viewed as being a nail.

The Chinese, like the Russians before them will respond to the growth of western militarism by manufacturing swords and we will be constantly reminded of the need to build more weapons to counter the Chinese threat.
Good to see that the CCP is taking an active interest in the discussion. You are not on the staff of a Federal Labor politician are you OF?
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