AUKUS
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From: aus
“This program will deliver to the Royal Australian Navy 12 regionally-superior Attack-class submarines which are specially designed for Australia’s unique conditions.”
This from Naval Group early this year yet the bombshell from Australia's PM is that these submarines would be obsolete before they hit the water. If this spat gets ever more diplomatically ugly, detailing the extraordinary claims of block obsolescence of French submarines before they enter service will deliver only one winner. The CCP.
This from Naval Group early this year yet the bombshell from Australia's PM is that these submarines would be obsolete before they hit the water. If this spat gets ever more diplomatically ugly, detailing the extraordinary claims of block obsolescence of French submarines before they enter service will deliver only one winner. The CCP.
NG are submitting the barracuda with AIP into contention for the indian program. final 4 are the barracuda, russian, South korean and spanish. So we might still see how good or bad it could have been
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From: Australia
Macron was playing with toys in his backyard when that happened, but carry on.
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From: surfing, watching for sharks
But still growing up in a culture that thinks that form of behavior is acceptable. Immersed in a culture and a nationalistic mind set that thinks France is the dominant nation on the planet if only the rest of the world would accept that. Macron's great great grandparents would not have been born when Napoleon set out to demonstrate that thinking but it is still the attitude the French take to the world stage. Churchill was correct in destroying the French fleet at Mers El Kébir and Australia was correct in dumping the French subs. Both were done for the strategic interests of their respective countries.
I don’t believe any nation is that singularly minded that it’s culture as you put it condones sinking ships, now or then.
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From: Aus
Macron was playing with toys in his backyard when that happened, but carry on
Churchill was correct in destroying the French fleet at Mers El Kébir
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From: Australia
I don’t believe any nation is that singularly minded that it’s culture as you put it condones sinking ships, now or then.
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From: australia
How can you criticise France? An honest and upfront nation. They would never lie and deceive. It is an insult to France to cast such dispersions.
I believe them when the French government denied all knowledge of the ACT OF WAR. In the operation to bomb and sink the Greenpeace flagship Rainbow Warrior.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/worl...arrior-attack/
I believe them when the French government denied all knowledge of the ACT OF WAR. In the operation to bomb and sink the Greenpeace flagship Rainbow Warrior.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/worl...arrior-attack/
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From: surfing, watching for sharks
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From: Aus
Comprehension old boy. I never suggested you did. Merely pointed out Macron wasn’t politically of that era
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From: Australia
Don’t get me wrong… I hate Morrison as much as the next guy.
But France need to get over it. Australia exited, at an agreed exit point, which was written into the contract and agreed to by the French.
Their conduct since (immediately recalling ambassador for a few days, public comments claiming Australia lied, and general throwing of toys out of the pram) has been like watching a two year old throw a tantrum.
Its a pity they didn’t fight this hard during WW2.
Rest assured, if the ADF needs a new contract to supply white surrender flags, they’ll give the French a call.
But France need to get over it. Australia exited, at an agreed exit point, which was written into the contract and agreed to by the French.
Their conduct since (immediately recalling ambassador for a few days, public comments claiming Australia lied, and general throwing of toys out of the pram) has been like watching a two year old throw a tantrum.
Its a pity they didn’t fight this hard during WW2.
Rest assured, if the ADF needs a new contract to supply white surrender flags, they’ll give the French a call.
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From: USA
Don’t get me wrong… I hate Morrison as much as the next guy.
But France need to get over it. Australia exited, at an agreed exit point, which was written into the contract and agreed to by the French.
Their conduct since (immediately recalling ambassador for a few days, public comments claiming Australia lied, and general throwing of toys out of the pram) has been like watching a two year old throw a tantrum.
Its a pity they didn’t fight this hard during WW2.
Rest assured, if the ADF needs a new contract to supply white surrender flags, they’ll give the French a call.
But France need to get over it. Australia exited, at an agreed exit point, which was written into the contract and agreed to by the French.
Their conduct since (immediately recalling ambassador for a few days, public comments claiming Australia lied, and general throwing of toys out of the pram) has been like watching a two year old throw a tantrum.
Its a pity they didn’t fight this hard during WW2.
Rest assured, if the ADF needs a new contract to supply white surrender flags, they’ll give the French a call.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita...tory_of_France
And , if we had a true president , and not a sodomite, Australia would be a little more respectfull.
Nb I do not care about the subs, if they will be french , US, UK, or Chineses .
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
It is true that France has fought in more major European conflicts than any other European nation - mainly because most were fought in France.
The UK, on the other hand, tended to fight further afield.
It was DeGaulle who remarked that the thing he most respected about the British was that they always had the sense to fight their wars in someone else’s country….
The UK, on the other hand, tended to fight further afield.
It was DeGaulle who remarked that the thing he most respected about the British was that they always had the sense to fight their wars in someone else’s country….
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From: Under a tree in the NT
Do not worry mate. France is the most successful military power in history. Today, French military would take Australia in less than a week, even it is at 18000 Km away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita...tory_of_France
And , if we had a true president , and not a sodomite, Australia would be a little more respectfull.
Nb I do not care about the subs, if they will be french , US, UK, or Chineses .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita...tory_of_France
And , if we had a true president , and not a sodomite, Australia would be a little more respectfull.
Nb I do not care about the subs, if they will be french , US, UK, or Chineses .
When does your week start? From leaving France or upon landfall?
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From: Eden Valley
The submarine deal was a mistake. We were lied to about timeframes, capabilities, offsets and industry participation. Australia was gouged as no Plan B. We pursued a Plan B last year and the French knew this- they just didn't think nukes would be an option. Then Macron labelled our PM a liar and when evidence to the contrary, French diplomats crying afoul.
The whole affair has fallen predictably into the hands of the CCP. They are on your side BTW. Mortified at Australia not committing to French submarines. I wonder why?
Australia now has to investigate any French-made military equipment in service. This dispute has gone far enough to suggest supply and support chains vulnerable in the future.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 4th November 2021 at 03:30.
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
Looking at the French helicopters in Oz service, I can understand why we didn't want their submarines either.
Scomo is doing the right think for our country, tough luck for France that they are not getting our billion$.
Scomo is doing the right think for our country, tough luck for France that they are not getting our billion$.
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From: Oz
I think this is a principal issue with your submarines. Nobody really knows whose side you would be on. Your China policy is soft and ambiguous and France's military commitment to the region has been unexceptional.
The submarine deal was a mistake. We were lied to about timeframes, capabilities, offsets and industry participation. Australia was gouged as no Plan B. We pursued a Plan B last year and the French knew this- they just didn't think nukes would be an option. Then Macron labelled our PM a liar and when evidence to the contrary, French diplomats crying afoul.
The whole affair has fallen predictably into the hands of the CCP. They are on your side BTW. Mortified at Australia not committing to French submarines. I wonder why?
Australia now has to investigate any French-made military equipment in service. This dispute has gone far enough to suggest supply and support chains vulnerable in the future.
The submarine deal was a mistake. We were lied to about timeframes, capabilities, offsets and industry participation. Australia was gouged as no Plan B. We pursued a Plan B last year and the French knew this- they just didn't think nukes would be an option. Then Macron labelled our PM a liar and when evidence to the contrary, French diplomats crying afoul.
The whole affair has fallen predictably into the hands of the CCP. They are on your side BTW. Mortified at Australia not committing to French submarines. I wonder why?
Australia now has to investigate any French-made military equipment in service. This dispute has gone far enough to suggest supply and support chains vulnerable in the future.
France is not the aggrieved party. Australia is.
Lesson ? Forget any military procurement deal with France for the foreseeable future.
The mystery is why anybody thought the deal was a good one in the first place.
The really interesting back story that I haven’t heard much about is how the US and UK were convinced to hand over the Crown Jewels of submarine technology. It may still not get past Congress.
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From: aus
Evertonian
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From: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
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From: Ferrara
"I haven’t heard much about is how the US and UK were convinced to hand over the Crown Jewels of submarine technology"
A great deal is secret of course but I'm pretty sure the Russians have access to most of it anyway - the real challenge is BUILDING the boats according to the spec.......
A great deal is secret of course but I'm pretty sure the Russians have access to most of it anyway - the real challenge is BUILDING the boats according to the spec.......
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From: aus
Looking further hard to see if its was actually signed or still under negoiation. If it was under negoiation its a dead duck
That was a news report from the 10th a few days before aukus
French warships and troops would be given guaranteed access to Australian naval bases and military sites under a proposal being discussed by both countries, as the federal government moves to lock in the next stage of its troubled $90 billion future submarine program next week.
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From: USA
French helicopters are fighting wars all over the world, looks like the ozzie armed forces are not up to the job ! I wonder how would you deal with nuke subs ?