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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 15th Apr 2021, 03:53
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by skydivernigel
Not sure who Beamr is thinking of, but to be clear I'm not 'pro-Russian' (or anti-Russian or -American) nor work for the 'Internet Research Agency'...
I wasn't thinking about you sir!
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 06:49
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Lets just say there are a number of new posters all of whom seem to be happy with Russia's motives and actions....... there are a few of the older pro Russian hands around (as there are the fire & brimstone warriors to the right) who we all love and cherish but it is odd to see so many newbies who don't seem to post on any other threads............
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 07:04
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Surely you're not suggesting that Vlad might have some cyber-geeks posting pro-russian views on social media? Whatever next, interfering in elections.????...........
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 07:40
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Cyberwar like right before when the little green men went to work back then.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 08:15
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Little Green River Cruises ?

...
From Astrakhan up the Volga to Volgograd, along the Volga-Don Canal, down the Lower Don to Rostov and the Sea of Azov.

Max draft for the canal is 12 ft - length 460ft - beam 55 ft.

Should be plenty deep enough for the shallow draft corvettes, landing craft, river monitors, artillery gun boats, Dinassauts or whathaveyou, of the Caspian Flotilla to join the party. The Buyan class 'corvettes' (draft 8 ft) could shoot their Kalibr missiles without leaving home pond if they wanted. They did it before.

Plus - In less than ten days, you could move the whole of the St Petersburg National Guard Division on a free river cruise, to view the wonderful cathedrals of Ukraine.

I hope the two Arleigh Burkes got their underwater ears on. The Kilos will be waiting to show them the way.

LFH
...
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 16:17
  #126 (permalink)  
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While we (collectively) have certainly beaten the political angles pretty hard in this thread - politics and military ops being related, that's not a surprise - focusing on the Military Aviation aspect of what's going on at the moment would certainly be of interest to our reader base in this particular sub forum.
Between drones, helicopters, reconaissance aircraft and 'posturing' using air assets there's bound to be some discussion we can undertake to avoid turning this into a hamsterwheel.
Asking for a friend ...
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 20:25
  #127 (permalink)  
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Give an inch....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Ukraine.html

Putin blocks ALL foreign warships from reaching Ukraine after Biden's Black Sea U-Turn: Russia closes Kerch Strait after Joe sent two Navy battleships but then called them off

President Joe Biden cancelled the deployment of two US warships from the Black Sea despite warning Vladimir Putin there would be 'repercussions' for the troop build-up in Ukraine.

Last week, Turkey said Washington was sending two warships to the Black Sea, in a decision Russia called an unfriendly provocation.

But the Biden administration reversed the decision after the Kremlin warned them to 'stay away for their own good', and gave Putin the chance to ramp up his military presence in Crimea and near the Ukrainian border.

White House officials decided not to send the ships to avoid needlessly escalating the situation with Russia over the Ukraine, a US defense official told Politico.

Hours later, Putin took advantage of Biden's U-turn back by closing off the Kerch Strait between Crimea and Russia, blocking all foreign warships from getting to Ukraine until October 2021.

Ukraine said the move was an 'act of war' and were disappointed foreign destroyers had turned around before one of Moscow's biggest escalations in the last 30 days.....
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 20:42
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Some of the comments in that link are almost good enough for Jet Blast
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 20:43
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Give an inch....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Ukraine.html

Putin blocks ALL foreign warships from reaching Ukraine after Biden's Black Sea U-Turn: Russia closes Kerch Strait after Joe sent two Navy battleships but then called them off

President Joe Biden cancelled the deployment of two US warships from the Black Sea despite warning Vladimir Putin there would be 'repercussions' for the troop build-up in Ukraine.

Last week, Turkey said Washington was sending two warships to the Black Sea, in a decision Russia called an unfriendly provocation.

But the Biden administration reversed the decision after the Kremlin warned them to 'stay away for their own good', and gave Putin the chance to ramp up his military presence in Crimea and near the Ukrainian border.

White House officials decided not to send the ships to avoid needlessly escalating the situation with Russia over the Ukraine, a US defense official told Politico.

Hours later, Putin took advantage of Biden's U-turn back by closing off the Kerch Strait between Crimea and Russia, blocking all foreign warships from getting to Ukraine until October 2021.

Ukraine said the move was an 'act of war' and were disappointed foreign destroyers had turned around before one of Moscow's biggest escalations in the last 30 days.....
How does blocking the Kerch Strait block foreign warships from entering Ukraine? They can still go into the Black Sea at will and go to Ukrainian ports?

Arent there port facilities at Odessa?

Add to that how often have western warships sailed into the Sea of Azov?
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 01:45
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Biden tells Putin 'now is the time to de-escalate' at the Ukrainian border | Daily Mail Online

Looks like Bide just blinked!

FB

​​​​​​

​​​​​​

Last edited by Finningley Boy; 16th Apr 2021 at 03:51.
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 07:40
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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"blocking all foreign warships from getting to Ukraine until October 2021."

ORAC that's only the bit beyond the Kerch straights - Ukraine still has major Black Sea ports available such as Odessa
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 07:42
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56755484

US imposes sanctions on Russia over cyber-attacks

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Old 16th Apr 2021, 10:36
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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...
Add to that how often have western warships sailed into the Sea of Azov ?
No Arleigh Burkes will be going anywhere near the Sea of Azov because the Kerch Bridge is too low and the water depth at the bridge is too shallow.

Besides, they wouldn't want the little green men on the (Kerch) bridge tossing gash onto their nice clean deck when they get stuck.

LFH
...
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 11:51
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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NATO puts 40 000 troops on Russias border and Russia is called the aggressive one for massing troops in its own country. You gotta love the western propaganda!
All we need to find out is who owns all these newspapers then we'll know who the real problem is. Any ideas?
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 12:08
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by peterlike
NATO puts 40 000 troops on Russias border and Russia is called the aggressive one for massing troops in its own country. You gotta love the western propaganda!
All we need to find out is who owns all these newspapers then we'll know who the real problem is. Any ideas?
And these alleged 40000 troops are exactly where?
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 13:29
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beamr
And these alleged 40000 troops are exactly where?
Ironically , there are in the Catholic countries that invaded Orthodox Russia in 1600 and occupied Moscow for 13 years .
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 13:53
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Cool

Originally Posted by [email protected]
Surely you're not suggesting that Vlad might have some cyber-geeks posting pro-russian views on social media? Whatever next, interfering in elections.????...........
ooooh, sounds like a job for 77 Bde
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 14:26
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Originally Posted by fitliker
Ironically , there are in the Catholic countries that invaded Orthodox Russia in 1600 and occupied Moscow for 13 years .
That would be ironic. The defender europe 21 describes rather well that those 28000 NATO troops are going to be spread all over Europe, and much of those are located several countries away from russian border (eg croatia, hungary, germany, Netherlands etc). Even down to North Africa. So I have no idea where the figure 40k came from nor the idea that those would be next to russian border.

"Integrates approximately 28,000 multinational forces from 26 nations to conduct nearly simultaneous operations across more than 30 training areas in 12 countries."

"Demonstrates our ability to serve as a strategic security partner in the western Balkans and Black Sea regions while sustaining our abilities in northern Europe, the Caucasus, Ukraine and Africa."

source:
https://www.europeafrica.army.mil/DefenderEurope/

also, considering that Turkey has been a NATO country for more than half a century and they have a rather formidable size army, it sounds a bit lame to state that NATO presence would be uplifted heavily in the Black Sea area due to this exercise.
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 21:18
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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https://archive.org/details/EDIS-SWDPC-01-04

The Trumpeter Landfrey’s recorded on a wax cylinder who sounded the charge for the Light Brigade .
Apologies for the thread drift , but the old trumpeter sounded interesting .

Last edited by fitliker; 16th Apr 2021 at 21:21. Reason: Add name of bugler
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Old 17th Apr 2021, 13:59
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Thank you to the few who brought original thoughts to this thread. ATC Watcher great insight and still very valid today. Nato creeping ever closer to Russia's borders, is only amplifying this feeling.

Other posters are simply regurgitating the old cold war era lines: the commies are coming, the commies are coming!!!" Now it is just the Russians are coming... Repeating it over and over again does not make it true, although many will believe it. Goebbels would be so proud! So no point in wasting time with such age old trope.

As for new posters, I assume Asturias56 is speaking of me. Last time I checked, I have been a member of this forum, far longer than he has. Number of posts does not make you new...

Anyway back to the topic: Nato and the West calls for Russia to de-escalate are a bit rich.
As stated before:
1. Ukraine moved forces to the contact line, long before Russia started mobilizing.
2. Ukrainian forces are at the contact line, for their spring offensive on Donbas, the majority of the Russian forces are in known training areas.
3. Ukraine has not implemented the Minsk agreements.
4. Neither Germany nor France has held Ukraine accountable for the breach of the Minsk agreements.

So to de-escalate rests on Ukraine and the west, not on Russia.

Implement the Minsk agreements and peace will reign within and with Ukraine.
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