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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 17th Apr 2021, 15:23
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Nato creeping ever closer to Russia's borders, is only amplifying this feeling
No problem so long as they don't cross the border, not something NATO, nor it's members have any desire to do.

Now Russia crossing borders into other countries? There seems to be a track record of that.
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Old 17th Apr 2021, 16:54
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aegis8
Goebbels would be so proud!
Did you just call other posters nazis?

Why Ukraine is not allowed to move their troops within their borders, but russia is?
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Old 17th Apr 2021, 19:51
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aegis8
Now it is just the Russians are coming... Repeating it over and over again does not make it true, although many will believe it. Goebbels would be so proud! So no point in wasting time with such age old trope.
All true but you missed out the bit where 'the Russians are coming' frequently turns into 'the Russians are here'. The only variation has been 'the little green men are here... just kidding, it's us Russians again but only on holiday... no, kidding again, it is a Russia invasion'.

Same for the Russians and the Nazis coming to a nice agreement and invading Poland. I'm sure Goebbels was very proud of Russia at that point.
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 08:45
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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"Ukrainian forces are at the contact line, "

it is their country - it isn't part of Russia
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 09:41
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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This a very volatile part of the world with many ethnic groups demanding autonomy, many having suffered genocide and ethnic cleansing over the centuries, we havn’t heard much about it because of Covid dominating the news but tens of thousands of troops are facing peach other in Nagorno Karabakh with Russia trying to stop a flare up again. Ukraine is just one of those regions, NATO and the US would well do to keep out of the squabbles, leave them to settle their own disputes. Most of Russia’s neighbours dislike them but that can be said of most of the US neighbours as well, it’s Russia’s backyard let them sort out the disputes and with extremist Islam in the mix the best of luck with that.
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 09:58
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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President Biden decides to cancel the deployment of two US warships to the Black Sea so as not to increase tensions - yet the UK is going ahead with deployment of a Type 45 plus a Type 23.

Article in The Sunday Times:-
British warships head for Black Sea as Russian troops mass on Ukrainian border

Royal Navy warships will sail for the Black Sea next month as tensions continue to rise between Ukrainian and Russian forces.

Putting the ships off the coast of Ukraine is intended to show solidarity with Kiev and Nato allies in the region after the President Biden decided to cancel the deployment of two American warships to the Black Sea last week for fear of escalating the crisis over the massing of Russian troops.

One Type 45 destroyer armed with anti-aircraft missiles and an anti-submarine Type 23 frigate will peel off from the Royal Navy’s carrier task group in the Mediterranean and head through the Bosphorus into the Black Sea, according to senior naval sources.

RAF F-35B Lightning stealth jets and Merlin submarine-hunting helicopters are to stand ready on the task group’s flag ship, the carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth, to support the warships in the Black Sea should they be threatened by Russian warships, submarines or aircraft. HMS Queen Elizabeth has to stay in the Mediterranean because an international treaty prohibits aircraft carriers from entering the Black Sea.

The Royal Navy announced in February, before the current crisis, that the carrier’s supporting warships and aircraft would carry out the missions into the Black Sea as part of HMS Queen Elizabeth’s deployment to the Far East. The Ministry of Defence confirmed on Friday that the naval foray would go ahead despite the US decision to keep its warships out of the crisis zone.

“Operational planning continues and this still includes the Black Sea activity,” said a senior defence source. “The US decision will have no bearing on Carrier Strike Group’s 2021 plans.”

This apparent divergence between London and Washington follows the admission on Friday by General Sir Nick Carter, chief of defence staff, that the British government disagreed with Biden’s decision to withdraw all US and Nato troops from Afghanistan by September.

Tension has been rising since Moscow ordered a troop build-up near Ukraine’s eastern border late last month. Russian and Ukrainian gunboats were involved in a stand-off near the Crimean coast on Thursday.

RAF RC-135 Rivet Joint eavesdropping aircraft have flown eight missions over Ukraine to monitor Russian military communications since the start of the month. Four RAF Typhoon fighter jets will fly to Romania from RAF Lossiemouth this week to take part in Nato air policing patrols over the Black Sea, and hundreds of soldiers will head to Ukraine in the summer for a joint exercise, dubbed Cossack Mace, with the country’s border guard paramilitary force.
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 11:17
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aegis8
As for new posters, I assume Asturias56 is speaking of me. Last time I checked, I have been a member of this forum, far longer than he has. Number of posts does not make you new...
Ah. Sleeper agent then...
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 11:41
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Ah. Sleeper agent then...
Very good Willard
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 13:47
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aegis8 View Post
As for new posters, I assume Asturias56 is speaking of me. Last time I checked, I have been a member of this forum, far longer than he has. Number of posts does not make you new...

Well 22 posts in 13 years on PPrune is almost certainly unique - but all of them have been recent and 20 of the 22 are on this one subject in the last 2 weeks. You can see why there is a degree of scepticism about your background. Long term NATO sceptics like etudiant etc post regularly on a wide range of subjects (as do the aggressive folk on the other side of the argument). I just have a suspicious mind............
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 14:47
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deltasierra010
Most of Russia’s neighbours dislike them but that can be said of most of the US neighbours as well, it’s Russia’s backyard let them sort out the disputes and with extremist Islam in the mix the best of luck with that.
Interesting attempt at using 'dislike' as a means of arguing some sort of equivalence.

I think as regards my immediate neighbours I'd much rather be Canada or Mexico with the USA next door than Estonia, Ukraine, or Georgia .... or Sweden with modern day Russia on my border.

There's a difference between having a neighbour that irritates you - which seems to be what you imply dislike means in North America - and one you live in fear of - which seems to be what you imply dislike means east of Western Europe.


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Old 18th Apr 2021, 16:51
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Will Russia invoke the UN charter to defend it citizens living in their ancestral homelands ?
Chairman Mao made a similar threat when he said that according to the Chinese constitution wherever Chinese people’s live is considered Chinese Sovereign soil .
Will the Russians use a similar statement to justify creating an autonomous region in the east for Russians ?

You know it is gonna get big when the Pope is talking Peace .
Ukrainian Catholics against Russian Orthodox . Might create another bigger schism between the two churches . Bigger than the great schism that lost Constantinople .

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 21:10
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Peter Hitchens writing in the Mail on Sunday today sticks to his constant position that that the West are picking a needless fight with Russia? More about how Russia is a poor country with an economy no more robust or bigger than that of Italy?

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 22:40
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Will Russia invoke the UN charter to defend it citizens living in their ancestral homelands ?
1954... so not so ancestral )
For many older Russians the Crimea holds a magnetic hold. That may well be the tipping point despite any rationality, those that speak Russian will surely know the immortal line in Brat 2. Doesn't help that Ukraine has a comedian (literally) as President, even (previously) Willy Wonka had more competence. I lived there three years and nothing surprises me about the place.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 04:14
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deltasierra010
Most of Russia’s neighbours dislike them but that can be said of most of the US neighbours as well,
One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on PPrune and pretty much anywhere on the internet.

Let's take a short look at history regarding the treatment of Ukraine by Russia and one of it's stronger western neighbor's for instance.

I don't pretend that the US hasn't treated a few of it's smaller neighbors like an Amsterdam window saleslady, but we haven't cut their throats and fed them to the dogs like Russia has treated it's neighbors at times.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 07:17
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatsaLizad?
One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on PPrune and pretty much anywhere on the internet.

Let's take a short look at history regarding the treatment of Ukraine by Russia and one of it's stronger western neighbor's for instance.

I don't pretend that the US hasn't treated a few of it's smaller neighbors like an Amsterdam window saleslady, but we haven't cut their throats and fed them to the dogs like Russia has treated it's neighbors at times.
The US has done more than its share of killing overseas in the name of what it sees as freedom while making sure that it’s neighbours never get strong enough to be a military threat. However the present indications are that Biden does not want a direct confrontation over Ukraine and is leaving European nations to hassle Russia, this could easily escalate. Russia sees this a defending ethnic Russians in Ukraine and they show no signs of backing down, in fact they are reinforcing Crimea, we can only hope that nobody is crazy enough to start shooting.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 07:30
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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it’s neighbours never get strong enough to be a military threat.
For interest...

The implications of Europe and the UK positioning 40,000 or more, troops, aircraft and ships, on the borders of Kaliningrad would send what message? Since the country besides it's predominantly Russian population has elements of Ukrainian, Belarusian, Tatar, German, Armenian, Polish, and Lithuanian people, perhaps the justification could be termed prevention of "ethnic cleansing".

While Ukraine is considerably larger than Kaliningrad, the comparison in size when considering a military threat from Russia can only be seen for what it is.

"First they came for Estonia, then Lithuania, later they entered Poland, finally they came for.....but there was no one left to object."

The strong, threatening and intimidating the weak, there are similarities with historic events.

IG
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 08:00
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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The US has done more than its share of killing overseas in the name of what it sees as freedom
Aided by our trusty sidekick the UK.

Actually, I think we learned it from your lot.
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 08:15
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Tsk, tsk, tsk............................ you'll be bringing up the Opium Wars next.................
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Old 19th Apr 2021, 09:52
  #159 (permalink)  
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West Coast, there are only 22 countries the UK has never invaded. I think that’s a record that will be hard to beat....

(It might be less than that - see link below reference Guatemala. I spent 3 happy months at Butcher radar in Belize back in 1979. The same may apply to a couple of the others as well)

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xdmq...army-civil-war

https://www.statista.com/chart/3441/...ed-by-britain/


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Old 19th Apr 2021, 17:26
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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You can see why the British never bothered - all a bit of a drossy collection TBH - maybe excepting Sweden.................. I'm pretty sure during the Great Game they pushed agents up into Turkmenistan and Tajikistan but the Russians got there first. Also I can't remember them invading the Congo (Zaire) or Greenland?
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