Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
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Good News
Good news for the thread, unofficial, as ever, but Terri Judd of the Independent has been told that the Herc foam program will be complete in a matter of weeks. Credit to Terri, I am sure she won't mind the article being reproduced here in full. Now all we need to do is persuade the luddites in the MoD to fit fuel tank protection as standard to all military aircraft both fixed wing and helo, starting with the Nimrod.
Thanks to all those who did their bit.
Safety journey nears end at last for RAF Hercules
By Terri Judd
Published: 08 September 2007
More than two-and-a-half years after 10 servicemen were killed north of Baghdad when their RAF Hercules C-130 plane was hit by ground-to-air fire, the aircraft which transport troops across the two war zones will now finally be fitted with vital anti-explosive foam.
The move comes after a lengthy campaign by relatives of those who died on 30 January 2005. Flight XV 179 – carrying nine RAF crew from the special forces support 47 Squadron and a Royal Signals soldier – was en route to an American base in Balad that day when a fuel tank was hit by ground fire, exploded and the right wing sheared off. The board of inquiry said a contributory factor was the fact the Hercules' fuel tanks were not fitted with "any fire retarding technology, either foam or inert gas" to prevent an explosive fuel-air mix developing – standard on American planes since Vietnam. It recommended that all C-130s should be fitted urgently.
The Ministry of Defence said that before the crash "it was judged that there was a low risk of a fuel tank explosion" and that priority was given to the threat of missile attacks rather than lighter weapons but promised to fit the device on the aircraft which can carry up to 70 people.
Yet in October last year the families called for "urgent action" after learning the RAF had only upgraded two of its fleet of more than 40 Hercules. Leaked documents showed that RAF pilots had requested the fuel safety device be fitted three years earlier. Sarah Chapman, whose brother Sergeant Bob O’Connor, 38, was killed that day, said the troops were being treated like "expendable assets".
The process which involves fitting 500 different pieces of foam, is a long laborious one and hampered by the need to bring the ageing planes back from operations for the process.
However, The Independent has learned that all Hercules in Iraq or Afghanistan are due to be fitted with the safety device by the beginning of October. It will mean that troops being transported across war zones as well as the RAF crews flying them daily will now have the added protection.
Nigel Gilbert, a former Hercules pilot who flew with 47 Squadron and knew several of the crew killed in 2005, said yesterday: "It is great news but what a nightmare it has been to get there. All the families wanted was that no-one else should got through that again. At least now they know a single bullet won’t bring a plane down."
Meet the aircraft crew training for service in Afghanistan and Iraq
By Terri Judd
Flight engineer Mark "Skid" Brown's most memorable experience in Afghanistan revolves around a group of men who will never know his name or remember his face, soldiers too terribly injured even to be aware they ever met.
"The moments that really stick in my mind are pulling the wounded out of (Camp) Bastion, actually getting them to medical aid in time to save their lives," said Master Aircrewman Brown a crew member on one of the RAF's Hercules aircraft - the workhorses of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We could be thinking that our day was over, everybody was going to the showers and we would get a call there was a badly wounded person who needed to get to Kabul. Our work can run into 24 hours but it is a rewarding aspect of the job." The Warrant Officer and the crew of the RAF C-130 Hercules never meet their fragile passengers again but they always check reports on their outcome.
On a spectacularly picturesque and remote beach in south Wales this week, the hulk of the C-130K - nicknamed Fat Albert, "the old lady" to Master Aircrewman Brown - descended from the skies almost silently until the sudden roar when pilots threw the propellors into reverse thrust and deftly touched down in a marked box just 90ft by 500ft. Their runway was soft sand only 3,000ft long.
One landing successfully accomplished, they took off in an equally short distance, banking hard as they became airborne, the 40-year-old plane a surprisingly graceful sight despite her rotund frame. They were the RAF Hercules pilots practising for the harsh and hostile landings strips in Iraq and Afghanistan.
These ancient aircraft cross the countries countless times each day, transporting troops, equipment and the injured. Four have been lost in the past three years. One was shot down north of Baghdad in January 2005. In May 2006 hit a mine on landing in Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan, another hit an improvised explosive device on a tactical landing zone in Maysan, southern Iraq, in February this year, while a fourth was destroyed crash landing near Kabul last week.
The C-130s - ageing aircraft due to be replaced over the next few years - and their crews are pushed to their limits but, they insist, not beyond. " I would definitely go on record as saying we"re stretched. We"re busy and it's demanding work but I would not say we are overstretched," said Wing Commander Fraser Spence, officer commanding operations wing at RAF Lyneham.
Their work is rarely recognised until moments like January 2005 when the Hercules was shot down, killing all 10 on board. Flight XV 179 - carrying nine RAF crew from 47 Squadron and a Royal Signals soldier - was en route to an American base in Balad when a fuel tank was hit by ground fire, exploded and the right wing sheared off. The board of inquiry concluded that a lack of explosive suppressant foam was a contributory factor and The Independent learnt this week that all those on operations are now expected to have it fitted by the beginning of next month. "We"ve got to be lucky every single flight. They only have to be lucky once," said Wing Commander Greg Cook, who believes the crews rarely get recognition for the perilous task they perform.
"We don"t get shot at as often as the army but we are getting shot at most days," added the officer commanding 47 Squadron. After 23 years of service, Master Aircrewman Brown, of 70 Squadron, has had to cope with the loss of too many friends.
"Naturally it affects us. We"re all aware of our mortality. It doesn"t impact straight away. It just leaves you dead inside. A few months down the line, that is when it really bites. It impacts when you see the families and the effect on them. You have a hard time getting your head around it but it doesn"t stop you doing the job."
Thanks to all those who did their bit.
Safety journey nears end at last for RAF Hercules
By Terri Judd
Published: 08 September 2007
More than two-and-a-half years after 10 servicemen were killed north of Baghdad when their RAF Hercules C-130 plane was hit by ground-to-air fire, the aircraft which transport troops across the two war zones will now finally be fitted with vital anti-explosive foam.
The move comes after a lengthy campaign by relatives of those who died on 30 January 2005. Flight XV 179 – carrying nine RAF crew from the special forces support 47 Squadron and a Royal Signals soldier – was en route to an American base in Balad that day when a fuel tank was hit by ground fire, exploded and the right wing sheared off. The board of inquiry said a contributory factor was the fact the Hercules' fuel tanks were not fitted with "any fire retarding technology, either foam or inert gas" to prevent an explosive fuel-air mix developing – standard on American planes since Vietnam. It recommended that all C-130s should be fitted urgently.
The Ministry of Defence said that before the crash "it was judged that there was a low risk of a fuel tank explosion" and that priority was given to the threat of missile attacks rather than lighter weapons but promised to fit the device on the aircraft which can carry up to 70 people.
Yet in October last year the families called for "urgent action" after learning the RAF had only upgraded two of its fleet of more than 40 Hercules. Leaked documents showed that RAF pilots had requested the fuel safety device be fitted three years earlier. Sarah Chapman, whose brother Sergeant Bob O’Connor, 38, was killed that day, said the troops were being treated like "expendable assets".
The process which involves fitting 500 different pieces of foam, is a long laborious one and hampered by the need to bring the ageing planes back from operations for the process.
However, The Independent has learned that all Hercules in Iraq or Afghanistan are due to be fitted with the safety device by the beginning of October. It will mean that troops being transported across war zones as well as the RAF crews flying them daily will now have the added protection.
Nigel Gilbert, a former Hercules pilot who flew with 47 Squadron and knew several of the crew killed in 2005, said yesterday: "It is great news but what a nightmare it has been to get there. All the families wanted was that no-one else should got through that again. At least now they know a single bullet won’t bring a plane down."
Meet the aircraft crew training for service in Afghanistan and Iraq
By Terri Judd
Flight engineer Mark "Skid" Brown's most memorable experience in Afghanistan revolves around a group of men who will never know his name or remember his face, soldiers too terribly injured even to be aware they ever met.
"The moments that really stick in my mind are pulling the wounded out of (Camp) Bastion, actually getting them to medical aid in time to save their lives," said Master Aircrewman Brown a crew member on one of the RAF's Hercules aircraft - the workhorses of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We could be thinking that our day was over, everybody was going to the showers and we would get a call there was a badly wounded person who needed to get to Kabul. Our work can run into 24 hours but it is a rewarding aspect of the job." The Warrant Officer and the crew of the RAF C-130 Hercules never meet their fragile passengers again but they always check reports on their outcome.
On a spectacularly picturesque and remote beach in south Wales this week, the hulk of the C-130K - nicknamed Fat Albert, "the old lady" to Master Aircrewman Brown - descended from the skies almost silently until the sudden roar when pilots threw the propellors into reverse thrust and deftly touched down in a marked box just 90ft by 500ft. Their runway was soft sand only 3,000ft long.
One landing successfully accomplished, they took off in an equally short distance, banking hard as they became airborne, the 40-year-old plane a surprisingly graceful sight despite her rotund frame. They were the RAF Hercules pilots practising for the harsh and hostile landings strips in Iraq and Afghanistan.
These ancient aircraft cross the countries countless times each day, transporting troops, equipment and the injured. Four have been lost in the past three years. One was shot down north of Baghdad in January 2005. In May 2006 hit a mine on landing in Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan, another hit an improvised explosive device on a tactical landing zone in Maysan, southern Iraq, in February this year, while a fourth was destroyed crash landing near Kabul last week.
The C-130s - ageing aircraft due to be replaced over the next few years - and their crews are pushed to their limits but, they insist, not beyond. " I would definitely go on record as saying we"re stretched. We"re busy and it's demanding work but I would not say we are overstretched," said Wing Commander Fraser Spence, officer commanding operations wing at RAF Lyneham.
Their work is rarely recognised until moments like January 2005 when the Hercules was shot down, killing all 10 on board. Flight XV 179 - carrying nine RAF crew from 47 Squadron and a Royal Signals soldier - was en route to an American base in Balad when a fuel tank was hit by ground fire, exploded and the right wing sheared off. The board of inquiry concluded that a lack of explosive suppressant foam was a contributory factor and The Independent learnt this week that all those on operations are now expected to have it fitted by the beginning of next month. "We"ve got to be lucky every single flight. They only have to be lucky once," said Wing Commander Greg Cook, who believes the crews rarely get recognition for the perilous task they perform.
"We don"t get shot at as often as the army but we are getting shot at most days," added the officer commanding 47 Squadron. After 23 years of service, Master Aircrewman Brown, of 70 Squadron, has had to cope with the loss of too many friends.
"Naturally it affects us. We"re all aware of our mortality. It doesn"t impact straight away. It just leaves you dead inside. A few months down the line, that is when it really bites. It impacts when you see the families and the effect on them. You have a hard time getting your head around it but it doesn"t stop you doing the job."
Congratulations Nigel, Chappie and everyone else who dragged this stubborn reluctant nag to the trough and succeeded in making it drink. No doubt true to form the MOD apparatchiks will be erecting their improvised road blocks to hamper the next anticipated assault on their fiefdom. So be it. In the words of WC, let them do their worst and we shall do our best. ESF, or equivalent, is a no brainer, just as parachutes for aircrew were in WW! (not issued) and Armour Plate and Bullet Proof Windscreens were for the Battle of Britain (just in time). What chance that the Nimrod BoI will call for it? What chance that the Chief of the Air Staff will call for it? What chance that "anything that the military need this government will provide"? None I would suggest, so time for us to heed Nigel's clarion call and make our feelings known. Time is of the essence. Our Guys and Girls need this now, not after due consideration, not when the financial situation is more conducive, not until more lives are lost in preventable crashes, NOW!
"However, The Independent has learned that all Hercules in Iraq or Afghanistan are due to be fitted with the safety device by the beginning of October."
That's hardly a fleet-wide fit, is it.
" I would definitely go on record as saying we"re stretched. We"re busy and it's demanding work but I would not say we are overstretched,"
Quelle surprise - of course you wouldn't, would you....
That's hardly a fleet-wide fit, is it.
" I would definitely go on record as saying we"re stretched. We"re busy and it's demanding work but I would not say we are overstretched,"
Quelle surprise - of course you wouldn't, would you....
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Nothing new in Commanders denying over-stretch. HCDC commented on this very thing last year.
"The MoD's confidence that the UK Armed Forces are not overstretched contrasts with what we are hearing from Service personnel on the ground. We are concerned that the "can-do" attitude of which our Services are rightly proud may be leading Service commanders to underplay the pressure on Service personnel and their families. The Armed Forces can tolerate short-term pressure but sustained breaches of Harmony Guidelines will damage the Services' operational capability. This is a matter of crucial importance. We intend to take evidence on the MoD's Annual Report and Accounts in the Autumn and will give close attention to the data on Harmony Guidelines."
The actual numbers of Hercs receiving foam protection are around 2/3rds of the Fleet. Respectable compared with the original plan to fit 5 Hercules with this essential protection. We really won the argument here. The luddites really believed that SF were the only people to face a small arms threat and that there was no historical case for Hercs sustaining this threat. All rubbish, of course. Found this on the RAF Careers website.
"1992–96 – Balkan Conflict: The RAF joined other nations to transport urgently needed supplies to Sarajevo, a city under siege and with its civilian population under extreme threat from both war and starvation. It was a very dangerous mission; RAF Hercules squadrons were shot at and often flew in atrocious weather. The mission became the longest airlift of humanitarian supplies in history. "
Ingram's view?
"until recently the majority of large aircraft did not routinely operate in hostile environments"
More from Ingram;
Q79 Chairman: Moving on to Hercules, you have assured us that you are taking appropriate action about the Hercules flight safety concerns and it seemed to be an area of concern to the pilots in theatre, and I wondered whether you were aware that they were concerned about the vulnerability of the Hercules aircraft that they were flying.
Mr Ingram: "I am trying to think if I have spoken to any pilots recently about that. I have not had any personal point of contact, but again, given some of the prominence which has been given to the issue, then it would not surprise me that they would be thinking that they are now flying a piece of kit that should have something fitted to it. That is what we are seeking to do. We are all experienced enough to know that there has to be a balance of risk in all of this. It goes back to the point that, if we were not to use those aircraft, we could not deliver on our mission in Iraq and, therefore, while we build up that new protective measure, we have to again use aircraft in the most effective and judicious way. A lot of those aircraft have very substantial fit on them now in terms of DAS and if the requirement is justified, it will then be procured. It takes time in any procurement stream to go through that process and one big success we have in procurement of course is on the urgent operational requirement process. Everyone who looks at this recognises the success of it, but, because you identify a shortfall or a requirement, it does not mean to say you can deliver it overnight. It is not because of lack of money, but it is then because of availability within industry to upgrade. In terms of what we are trying to do with that particular fit on the Hercules, and we are considering whether we now need that to be fitted to aircraft other than those which operate in the highest threat environment, that then has an impact on the rest of the Hercules maintenance programme, and it is trying to get the balance right because, if we start losing airframes because we are doing that particular fit, then we have another operational problem. That is where the balance of discussion is taking place at the moment as well as trying to ensure that industry can deliver on the schedules that we are giving them."
In the end we gave them a pasting, because they had no arguments that stood up. Of the 4 Hercs lost in Iraq and Afg 2 were crewed by SF and 2 from the Main Sqn. That Ingram sought to differentiate risk in a theatre of war just shows how out of touch the MoD and it's Ministers really are. Anyone out there fighting a cause should take strength from the Hercules campaign.
"The MoD's confidence that the UK Armed Forces are not overstretched contrasts with what we are hearing from Service personnel on the ground. We are concerned that the "can-do" attitude of which our Services are rightly proud may be leading Service commanders to underplay the pressure on Service personnel and their families. The Armed Forces can tolerate short-term pressure but sustained breaches of Harmony Guidelines will damage the Services' operational capability. This is a matter of crucial importance. We intend to take evidence on the MoD's Annual Report and Accounts in the Autumn and will give close attention to the data on Harmony Guidelines."
The actual numbers of Hercs receiving foam protection are around 2/3rds of the Fleet. Respectable compared with the original plan to fit 5 Hercules with this essential protection. We really won the argument here. The luddites really believed that SF were the only people to face a small arms threat and that there was no historical case for Hercs sustaining this threat. All rubbish, of course. Found this on the RAF Careers website.
"1992–96 – Balkan Conflict: The RAF joined other nations to transport urgently needed supplies to Sarajevo, a city under siege and with its civilian population under extreme threat from both war and starvation. It was a very dangerous mission; RAF Hercules squadrons were shot at and often flew in atrocious weather. The mission became the longest airlift of humanitarian supplies in history. "
Ingram's view?
"until recently the majority of large aircraft did not routinely operate in hostile environments"
More from Ingram;
Q79 Chairman: Moving on to Hercules, you have assured us that you are taking appropriate action about the Hercules flight safety concerns and it seemed to be an area of concern to the pilots in theatre, and I wondered whether you were aware that they were concerned about the vulnerability of the Hercules aircraft that they were flying.
Mr Ingram: "I am trying to think if I have spoken to any pilots recently about that. I have not had any personal point of contact, but again, given some of the prominence which has been given to the issue, then it would not surprise me that they would be thinking that they are now flying a piece of kit that should have something fitted to it. That is what we are seeking to do. We are all experienced enough to know that there has to be a balance of risk in all of this. It goes back to the point that, if we were not to use those aircraft, we could not deliver on our mission in Iraq and, therefore, while we build up that new protective measure, we have to again use aircraft in the most effective and judicious way. A lot of those aircraft have very substantial fit on them now in terms of DAS and if the requirement is justified, it will then be procured. It takes time in any procurement stream to go through that process and one big success we have in procurement of course is on the urgent operational requirement process. Everyone who looks at this recognises the success of it, but, because you identify a shortfall or a requirement, it does not mean to say you can deliver it overnight. It is not because of lack of money, but it is then because of availability within industry to upgrade. In terms of what we are trying to do with that particular fit on the Hercules, and we are considering whether we now need that to be fitted to aircraft other than those which operate in the highest threat environment, that then has an impact on the rest of the Hercules maintenance programme, and it is trying to get the balance right because, if we start losing airframes because we are doing that particular fit, then we have another operational problem. That is where the balance of discussion is taking place at the moment as well as trying to ensure that industry can deliver on the schedules that we are giving them."
In the end we gave them a pasting, because they had no arguments that stood up. Of the 4 Hercs lost in Iraq and Afg 2 were crewed by SF and 2 from the Main Sqn. That Ingram sought to differentiate risk in a theatre of war just shows how out of touch the MoD and it's Ministers really are. Anyone out there fighting a cause should take strength from the Hercules campaign.
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" I would definitely go on record as saying we"re stretched. We"re busy and it's demanding work but I would not say we are overstretched," said Wing Commander Fraser Spence, officer commanding operations wing at RAF Lyneham.
Okay okay, the job got done, so we're stretched but not overstretched.
"Coroner could call MOD minister"
Swiss Des may have to clear his diary for a visit to Trowbridge if Coroner David Masters decides to call him to give evidence at the Inquest into the deaths of those on board XV179. Presumably that would have to be on one of the two and a half days a week that he is Defence Secretary:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7102714.stm
Somehow one suspects that his input would throw very little light on the tragedy that the families are seeking an explanation of.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7102714.stm
Somehow one suspects that his input would throw very little light on the tragedy that the families are seeking an explanation of.
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I attended the 2nd PIR on Monday and it was really special to actually meet some of the people I have been emailing and phoning for so many months. We finally got a date March 31st next year for the commencement of the Inquest proper. I hope an MoD Minister honours the families by explaining the comments made about acceptable levels of risk in Iraq and Afghanistan. Adam Ingram reassured my father that all Hercules aircraft had a DAS back in 2002. Ingram also suggested in the beginning that only those crews facing the most risk would get the protection of foam. I would very much like to meet him in person.
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Apologies if this is old- rehashed news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/7134919.stm
Families of nine UK personnel killed in a plane shot down in Iraq will get no legal aid at an inquest but those of an Australian airman will, it has emerged.
All 10 onboard the Wiltshire-based Hercules died when it was shot down in January 2005, in the biggest single UK loss of life in the Iraq conflict. The Australian government will pay for a lawyer for relatives of Flt Lt Paul Pardoel at the inquest in March.
Families of nine UK personnel killed in a plane shot down in Iraq will get no legal aid at an inquest but those of an Australian airman will, it has emerged.
All 10 onboard the Wiltshire-based Hercules died when it was shot down in January 2005, in the biggest single UK loss of life in the Iraq conflict. The Australian government will pay for a lawyer for relatives of Flt Lt Paul Pardoel at the inquest in March.
Mary, never any need to apologise for drawing our attention to the parsimonious mean spirited actions (as against honeyed words) that the MOD reserves for those already struck down in grief and despair. But the greatest humiliation to be dealt comes now:
Is not this the most despicable stand of the long string of obtuse positions that has characterised this government's response to this tragedy? The British government will not provide for legal representation of NoK, but the Australian Government will, so they are advised to sponge off them! The input of the NoK in this accident has been vital to the campaign to equip the fleet with proper fuel tank protection. The input in the Nimrod case has been pivotal in unmasking the scandalous deterioration in Airworthiness provision that this accident, that accident, the Tornado/Patriot accident, and others suffered from. Avoidable accidents, needless deaths. The least that this inept ministry should do is enable NoK to properly challenge these evidential failures. Angry email in offing to local MP.
The Legal Services Commission, which runs the legal aid scheme, says the questions which will be asked by the Australian lawyer, combined with the experience of the coroner, should serve the interests of the British relatives
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well, this time words fail me when it comes to this governmnet and my quest for the truth. i am not allowed assistance for a solicitor to help me find out the truth and represent me but the MoD are being represented by a senior barrister. i am supposed to sponge off the aussie government yet not be supported by my own. it is a laughable suggestion yet they made it.
the thing is, i am not laughing anymore. i am running out of fight and feeling like the walls are closing in around me and the reality of trying to hold my own in court and try and understand what the jargon means and what to do with information is all to close. i lost my dignity and cried when i was interviewed and i am so ashamed. i lost my brother, he's dead ,as are the others and they are not coming back. i know that and i'm not trying to get him back. i would ask this , who's interests are the government serving? not the crew of XV179, not my families, it would seem only to be theirs. next question to ask is...why?
so fellow ppruners i ask for your help. write to your mp's, spread the word. i am being stopped from my right to taking active participation in the inquest of bob's death, is because i'll ask the wrong questions? is the governmnet trying to hide something. they failed the crew of that plane , where was their apology from swiss tony? it is only right and proper that this was done for the nimrod crew and families, but all i need say ESF!
the thing is, i am not laughing anymore. i am running out of fight and feeling like the walls are closing in around me and the reality of trying to hold my own in court and try and understand what the jargon means and what to do with information is all to close. i lost my dignity and cried when i was interviewed and i am so ashamed. i lost my brother, he's dead ,as are the others and they are not coming back. i know that and i'm not trying to get him back. i would ask this , who's interests are the government serving? not the crew of XV179, not my families, it would seem only to be theirs. next question to ask is...why?
so fellow ppruners i ask for your help. write to your mp's, spread the word. i am being stopped from my right to taking active participation in the inquest of bob's death, is because i'll ask the wrong questions? is the governmnet trying to hide something. they failed the crew of that plane , where was their apology from swiss tony? it is only right and proper that this was done for the nimrod crew and families, but all i need say ESF!
PPRuNe Alert Warning Red (this is not a Drill)
Well there you have it, this tenacious gutsy lady, who has so selflessly dedicated herself to the cause of making the Hercules Fleet more battlefield worthy than it ever was for her beloved brother, is calling on us now to help her and others who were bereaved by this dreadful accident. Can any of us turn away and ignore her plea? Let us start a PPRune campaign now that will ensure that this shameless government is shamed into providing the legal help that they so desperately need. This one sided battle is an insult to those who gave their lives, and the perception that enormous amounts of public money are available to civilians suffering no more than a sprained thumb, but withheld from those who have lost loved ones serving their country and want to know the real reasons why, is an indictment of us all. As Chappie says start now by calling on your MPs to demand that this decision is revoked, and quickly, for much has to be done before the Inquest in March.
Let Right Be Done!
P.S. Chappie, take heart, you have bottomless depths of resolve that have seen you through many dark days, dig into them again now. You are not alone!
Let Right Be Done!
P.S. Chappie, take heart, you have bottomless depths of resolve that have seen you through many dark days, dig into them again now. You are not alone!
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Chappie
I saw you on Tv this morning and you started me crying, your despair was very evident. I have managed to obtain the services of a Barrister for our inquest on a "Pro Bono" basis in other words free. I will pm you the details.
You are not alone, a lot of people will be fighting you corner and praying for an outcome where you to will get an apology.
I saw you on Tv this morning and you started me crying, your despair was very evident. I have managed to obtain the services of a Barrister for our inquest on a "Pro Bono" basis in other words free. I will pm you the details.
You are not alone, a lot of people will be fighting you corner and praying for an outcome where you to will get an apology.
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The Legal Aid beaurocrats have made erroneous assumptions about the Australian position.
The MoD is spending millions on its own representation at these Inquests at tax payers expense.
Chappie, I am in the States as I type this, I am on to this as soon as I get back tomorrow.
Kind regards,
Nige
The MoD is spending millions on its own representation at these Inquests at tax payers expense.
Chappie, I am in the States as I type this, I am on to this as soon as I get back tomorrow.
Kind regards,
Nige
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Chappie
You did not loose your dignity this morning. I too cry when I think of the friends I have lost over Afganistan and elsewhere.
You demonstarted more dignity and love this morning than most of those who live and work in the buildings off Whitehall could ever comprehend.
You demonstarted more dignity and love this morning than most of those who live and work in the buildings off Whitehall could ever comprehend.
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than you for kind offers and help. much needed boost given, apart from the fact that i'm flagging as on 12 hour shift and neuro itu is not a job i get much chance to rest on but have regularly checked in and been so very touched by your support. being at work has meant that i've not seen the piece but it has been made clear they showed the bit where i cried...basically the panic welled up in me. daft i know!
thanks again. it has been an honour knowing you and serving you and helping keep you safe. i am a very lucky lady!
thanks again. it has been an honour knowing you and serving you and helping keep you safe. i am a very lucky lady!
Chappie, to see your piece, go to
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/7134919.stm
and click on
- and don't be ashamed! It was affecting and effective.
airsound
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/7134919.stm
and click on
VIDEO AND AUDIO NEWS
Reaction to the decision not to grant legal aid
Reaction to the decision not to grant legal aid
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Chappie, it is all about what is right and wrong.
Duty Honour and Country describes the action of those ten men, who went into harms way, and unfortunately got caught.
However it appears to me as an outsider, that more effort and money is being spent on protecting the backsides of those of the MOD, WHO SHOULD be forced to accept responsibility for both the lack of action, and what they did do.
Be assurred that no amount of window dressing, will stop the truth coming out, and justice will prevail.
Also be assurred that on the days of the hearing, there will be lots who will be there, if only in spirit supporting you.
Your brother and the rest of the crew did not die in vain, and many people in the years to come, will have great need to thank those involved, in stopping it happening again.
With every best wish, from all of us down here.
Remember "C130 Hercules aircrew-simply the best".
Col
Duty Honour and Country describes the action of those ten men, who went into harms way, and unfortunately got caught.
However it appears to me as an outsider, that more effort and money is being spent on protecting the backsides of those of the MOD, WHO SHOULD be forced to accept responsibility for both the lack of action, and what they did do.
Be assurred that no amount of window dressing, will stop the truth coming out, and justice will prevail.
Also be assurred that on the days of the hearing, there will be lots who will be there, if only in spirit supporting you.
Your brother and the rest of the crew did not die in vain, and many people in the years to come, will have great need to thank those involved, in stopping it happening again.
With every best wish, from all of us down here.
Remember "C130 Hercules aircrew-simply the best".
Col
Join Date: Mar 2006
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herkman, i found my remaining stickers the other day!
now on nightshift with baby now and she wants to play, so no sleep for me. i will be using my time effectively and will be writing to swiss tony and broon! it's about time i introduced myself to this "newcomer."
of course my mp will be reminded of me...again.
the telegraph are supposed to be doing a piece tomorrow.
i think i might even put a call into the australian government to see if they are aware that the british government are spending their money for them! what about the poor lawyer, who has enough work to be doing , finding out the government think he can take us others on. at the end of the day, i have every faith in the coroner and his investigator. we are very fortunate and i am pleased to report the issue of foam and all it's surrounding issues will be investigated for the inquest. i also do not want to cause any stress or compromise to the solicitor and his family member. it is right and proper that theyare able to do what they are.
i managed to see the piece..shame i didn't have the skills to complete my sentence! d'oh!
now on nightshift with baby now and she wants to play, so no sleep for me. i will be using my time effectively and will be writing to swiss tony and broon! it's about time i introduced myself to this "newcomer."
of course my mp will be reminded of me...again.
the telegraph are supposed to be doing a piece tomorrow.
i think i might even put a call into the australian government to see if they are aware that the british government are spending their money for them! what about the poor lawyer, who has enough work to be doing , finding out the government think he can take us others on. at the end of the day, i have every faith in the coroner and his investigator. we are very fortunate and i am pleased to report the issue of foam and all it's surrounding issues will be investigated for the inquest. i also do not want to cause any stress or compromise to the solicitor and his family member. it is right and proper that theyare able to do what they are.
i managed to see the piece..shame i didn't have the skills to complete my sentence! d'oh!