Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
chapster this has just been posted on arrse. Haven't checked it out, but rather interesting don't you think?
But funding can be made available on the following grounds:
Legal aid is not available to cover representation at an inquest under the mainstream legal aid scheme, although 'Legal Help' is available to those who who qualify financially, to provide legal advice and assistance before the inquest. However, in very rare circumstances, DCA Ministers may authorise legal aid for full representation at an inquest by way of an individual grant of 'exceptional funding'. This would normally be when Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights ('the right to life') is engaged so that a death is fully investigated. The most common category for this type of death is prison suicide, but could also include State killings, or severe failings by the State to protect life.
_________________
But funding can be made available on the following grounds:
Legal aid is not available to cover representation at an inquest under the mainstream legal aid scheme, although 'Legal Help' is available to those who who qualify financially, to provide legal advice and assistance before the inquest. However, in very rare circumstances, DCA Ministers may authorise legal aid for full representation at an inquest by way of an individual grant of 'exceptional funding'. This would normally be when Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights ('the right to life') is engaged so that a death is fully investigated. The most common category for this type of death is prison suicide, but could also include State killings, or severe failings by the State to protect life.
_________________
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So according to the MOD, this is not a complicated case.
Then pray why has the inquest been so long in coming.
Why was an aircraft, sent into battle, without even the minimum of survival material.
Me thinks that maybe the MOD will not fair well in this inquirey, and members of the MOD are hoping that not too much flack will fall on them.
Bah Humbug, they did a poor job, in an excessive amount of time, and I hope they wrap the duty of care around them all.
We will be thinking of all those relatives on that special day.
Every best wish
Col
Then pray why has the inquest been so long in coming.
Why was an aircraft, sent into battle, without even the minimum of survival material.
Me thinks that maybe the MOD will not fair well in this inquirey, and members of the MOD are hoping that not too much flack will fall on them.
Bah Humbug, they did a poor job, in an excessive amount of time, and I hope they wrap the duty of care around them all.
We will be thinking of all those relatives on that special day.
Every best wish
Col
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: cambridge
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the information regards the legal aid system is correct that nige has supplied.
normally we would not get legal aid for an inquest and if you look through the contents table on legal aid literature the inquest is not covered. our case is of course an exceptional one therefore and we are doing our best for getting the coroner to agree that the inquest come under article two. in this case the legal aid is granted if the case is of public interest, death in custody or breach of duty of care.
mmmm...which one to plump for ????? there is a great public interest nad of course they need to know what fantastic cock ups the MoD have excelled in dare i say again. there was a failing in the duty of care by not supplying the basics, let alone the adequate standard,need i go on.
the good news is the appeal process is under way and hope to hear soon and was informed today that there is a queue of barristers waiting to do pro bono care.
everyone has been so generous.
letters dispatched off to the appropiate ministers to be ignored...if they dare!
normally we would not get legal aid for an inquest and if you look through the contents table on legal aid literature the inquest is not covered. our case is of course an exceptional one therefore and we are doing our best for getting the coroner to agree that the inquest come under article two. in this case the legal aid is granted if the case is of public interest, death in custody or breach of duty of care.
mmmm...which one to plump for ????? there is a great public interest nad of course they need to know what fantastic cock ups the MoD have excelled in dare i say again. there was a failing in the duty of care by not supplying the basics, let alone the adequate standard,need i go on.
the good news is the appeal process is under way and hope to hear soon and was informed today that there is a queue of barristers waiting to do pro bono care.
everyone has been so generous.
letters dispatched off to the appropiate ministers to be ignored...if they dare!
chappie wrote:
When the issue of the MOD's duty of care to the crew of XV179 is raised, I hope that its failure in the stewardship of the airworthiness of not only that aircraft but every other military aircraft will be cited. I also hope that the review into the accident to Nimrod XV230 will lead to a full Public Inquiry charged to investigate the system of Military Airworthiness in general. From what has emerged in both this thread and the Nimrod one, together with aspects of other accidents involving Tornado/Patriot, Chinook/Mull and Sea King mid-air collision, there is a chronic lack of fitness for purpose across the military air fleets. It has cost far too many lives, and threatens to cost far more unless and until this problem is fully resolved. Some, me included, feel that the only solution is to establish a fully independent Military Airworthiness Authority (MAA), to whose regulations the MOD would be fully bound by law. Up to now it appears that it saw that task as discretionary, so that funding could be redirected elsewhere. The cost of such a policy could be seen in the sad and poignant ceremonies at Brize Norton and Lyneham. Those who gave their lives are lost not only to their own grieving families but to the military family as a whole, and it is fitting that the thoughts and contributions of both are found in this thread. I pay tribute to the courage of those next of kin who have posted here, it is not easy I am sure, but we must all feel a burning desire that avoidable accidents should in future be avoided! The battlefield defence of the Hercules fleet has, as a consequence, been greatly enhanced, but that same protection needs to be visited onto other fleets. Airworthiness of all fleets needs to be urgently reviewed and improved. It will cost the government far more than it is now spending, but it must dig deep and pay up. If these accidents had been suffered by a civilian airline it would have no option than to fulfil all the necessary remedial airworthiness requirements. Why should it be any different for the MOD?
there was a failing in the duty of care by not supplying the basics, let alone the adequate standard
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PQs Today
This should help keep the pressure up, with the forthcoming appeal.
868
Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, who informed the press that the Australian government would be paying the legal expenses of Kellie Merritt at the forthcoming inquest into deaths of service personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq.
[Transferred] (175285)
869
Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, if he will make it his policy to provide legal aid and assistance to the British families at the forthcoming inquest into the deaths of personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq.
Should also give Jack Straw a chance to show his leadership credentials??
868
Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, who informed the press that the Australian government would be paying the legal expenses of Kellie Merritt at the forthcoming inquest into deaths of service personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq.
[Transferred] (175285)
869
Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, if he will make it his policy to provide legal aid and assistance to the British families at the forthcoming inquest into the deaths of personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq.
Should also give Jack Straw a chance to show his leadership credentials??
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cultural traits and organizational practices detrimental to safety were allowed to develop, including: reliance on past success (such as tactics) as a substitute for sound engineering (or dynamic threat and risk analysis) practices (such as testing to understand why systems were not performing in accordance with requirements); organizational barriers that prevented effective communication of critical safety ( equipment , intelligence) information and stifled professional differences of opinion; lack of integrated management across program elements; and the evolution of an informal chain of command and decision-making processes that operated outside the organization’s rules (non compliance to XXXXX and proper risk management from higher command)
I have cut and pasted this quote from the Nimrod page, apologies for stealing.
I feel so strongly about the lack of Risk Management and its relevance to the loss of XV179 that I can no longer remain compliant or conform to the processes of justice that exclude this as an issue. As it stands, the public consensus that Aviation Risk Management and/or Mission Risk Profile are not relevant or specific to this crash is simply unacceptable to me.
The BoI in so many ways did a laudable job, under the most challenging and emotional circumstances. It is excruciatingly difficult for me to be critical but this is about the process and not the people. The three identified contributory factors identified (perhaps there should have been more) are broad ranging and yet they were largely discussed in isolation, perceived as unforeseeable and summarised the crash as a one off. I argue it was an incident waiting to happen and I find it difficult that these factors were not considered from a systemic perspective. I strongly believe that the crew were let down by the absence of firm direction from higher command, HQ 2 Group, HQ Strike Command, Air Component Command Al – Udeid (to name a few) and that inappropriate /inadequate risk analysis was undertaken to justify operations. Unfortunately valuable debate was stifled when there was opportunity. It is now incredibly complicated and near impossible for me to get this on the table, let alone in the venue where the ‘issues’ will be discussed and hopefully lessons learnt identified. I am disappointed that the consensus, thus far is simply that, a consensus “things are/were fine” and I just wish someone had the balls to think and speak outside the box! Perhaps somewhere behind closed doors, a critical rethink has taken place and improvements have been made? If so were some of these issues mentioned? is there a blurring of how OP Telic and OP Crition missions are undertaken? What is the definition of operation imperative and is it open to misuse, to get a job done? Is the role, skills and resources of ‘The Flight’ mismanaged by higher command? Just to name a few.
The only subtle opening into debate was lent by the AVM, who in his summary commented, that there seems to be a cultural skewering of tactics towards low-level daylight flying. Is he suggesting that just because you get good at something you don’t need to apply it all the time? This suggests one interpretation and may I add caution and disagree with those who interpret this as a judgment of the crew, it simply is not! May I be so bold to add, to self- authorise or not self-authorise, that is a contentious question. As it stands one of the flaws of self-authorising is that higher command can cop out of responsibility to crews who operate in high demand enviroments, perhaps higher command concentrate\prioritise getting their jobs done rather than have responsibilty and focus on how the job gets done?
Infact, one can argue, the lack of ESF is indeed inclusive and manifested from poor judgment, proper risk analysis and management. I suspect that the MoD in closing will argue that had it been installed they cannot say it would have saved the crew. I would argue differently however what they can’t disagree with is that this crew deserved the fighting chance ESF would have given.
Thank you to all those, RAAF, USAF and RAF who have put up with my terrier like qualities when it comes to making sense of Paul’s crash. To those simplistic, morons who say it’s about monetary gain and apportioning blame, you have no idea. It’s about honoring Paul’s loss from a personal and professional context.
Paul’s death certificate may read killed in action and I can’t bring him back but it’s the lack of action that can be learnt from and changed, to prevent future devastation.
There I've said it and feel totally sick for doing so. After almost three years of writing letters and submissions to not be addressed in an equitable forum, I feel disappointed and disillusioned.
Anyway, I quote, with a tear and smile "Kell, I'm not here for a haircut."
I wish you all a safe and peaceful Christmas!
I have cut and pasted this quote from the Nimrod page, apologies for stealing.
I feel so strongly about the lack of Risk Management and its relevance to the loss of XV179 that I can no longer remain compliant or conform to the processes of justice that exclude this as an issue. As it stands, the public consensus that Aviation Risk Management and/or Mission Risk Profile are not relevant or specific to this crash is simply unacceptable to me.
The BoI in so many ways did a laudable job, under the most challenging and emotional circumstances. It is excruciatingly difficult for me to be critical but this is about the process and not the people. The three identified contributory factors identified (perhaps there should have been more) are broad ranging and yet they were largely discussed in isolation, perceived as unforeseeable and summarised the crash as a one off. I argue it was an incident waiting to happen and I find it difficult that these factors were not considered from a systemic perspective. I strongly believe that the crew were let down by the absence of firm direction from higher command, HQ 2 Group, HQ Strike Command, Air Component Command Al – Udeid (to name a few) and that inappropriate /inadequate risk analysis was undertaken to justify operations. Unfortunately valuable debate was stifled when there was opportunity. It is now incredibly complicated and near impossible for me to get this on the table, let alone in the venue where the ‘issues’ will be discussed and hopefully lessons learnt identified. I am disappointed that the consensus, thus far is simply that, a consensus “things are/were fine” and I just wish someone had the balls to think and speak outside the box! Perhaps somewhere behind closed doors, a critical rethink has taken place and improvements have been made? If so were some of these issues mentioned? is there a blurring of how OP Telic and OP Crition missions are undertaken? What is the definition of operation imperative and is it open to misuse, to get a job done? Is the role, skills and resources of ‘The Flight’ mismanaged by higher command? Just to name a few.
The only subtle opening into debate was lent by the AVM, who in his summary commented, that there seems to be a cultural skewering of tactics towards low-level daylight flying. Is he suggesting that just because you get good at something you don’t need to apply it all the time? This suggests one interpretation and may I add caution and disagree with those who interpret this as a judgment of the crew, it simply is not! May I be so bold to add, to self- authorise or not self-authorise, that is a contentious question. As it stands one of the flaws of self-authorising is that higher command can cop out of responsibility to crews who operate in high demand enviroments, perhaps higher command concentrate\prioritise getting their jobs done rather than have responsibilty and focus on how the job gets done?
Infact, one can argue, the lack of ESF is indeed inclusive and manifested from poor judgment, proper risk analysis and management. I suspect that the MoD in closing will argue that had it been installed they cannot say it would have saved the crew. I would argue differently however what they can’t disagree with is that this crew deserved the fighting chance ESF would have given.
Thank you to all those, RAAF, USAF and RAF who have put up with my terrier like qualities when it comes to making sense of Paul’s crash. To those simplistic, morons who say it’s about monetary gain and apportioning blame, you have no idea. It’s about honoring Paul’s loss from a personal and professional context.
Paul’s death certificate may read killed in action and I can’t bring him back but it’s the lack of action that can be learnt from and changed, to prevent future devastation.
There I've said it and feel totally sick for doing so. After almost three years of writing letters and submissions to not be addressed in an equitable forum, I feel disappointed and disillusioned.
Anyway, I quote, with a tear and smile "Kell, I'm not here for a haircut."
I wish you all a safe and peaceful Christmas!
Kam
I’m delighted you “stole” my quote from the Nimrod page - in fact I’m a bit ashamed I didn’t think to post it here as well, because it is equally applicable to both - as you quickly understood.
For people who didn’t see the original, it’s actually from the Executive Summary of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board into the Shuttle Columbia’s calamitous break-up on re-entry in 2003. Two interesting things about this report: as far as I can see, it was sponsored by NASA (it was certainly published by them), and yet the CAIB was sufficiently independent to be able to be strongly critical of NASA itself; and it was published a mere 6 months after the event (Feb-Aug 2003). I believe the whole document is worth looking at, in the hope that we might learn something from the way America handled this disaster.
http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/home/CAIB_Vol1.html
As for the rest of your post, Kam, I believe you have hit, and are continuing to hit, so many nails smack on the head. Your considerations will continue to inspire many of us, I know.
To misquote you, if I may - “Kell, we know you’re not here for a haircut.” I’m sure that the true nature of your purpose will become clear to the uncaring monolith that is the MoD, if it isn’t already abundantly clear.
All the very best, for Christmas, and onwards.
airsound
I’m delighted you “stole” my quote from the Nimrod page - in fact I’m a bit ashamed I didn’t think to post it here as well, because it is equally applicable to both - as you quickly understood.
For people who didn’t see the original, it’s actually from the Executive Summary of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board into the Shuttle Columbia’s calamitous break-up on re-entry in 2003. Two interesting things about this report: as far as I can see, it was sponsored by NASA (it was certainly published by them), and yet the CAIB was sufficiently independent to be able to be strongly critical of NASA itself; and it was published a mere 6 months after the event (Feb-Aug 2003). I believe the whole document is worth looking at, in the hope that we might learn something from the way America handled this disaster.
http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/home/CAIB_Vol1.html
As for the rest of your post, Kam, I believe you have hit, and are continuing to hit, so many nails smack on the head. Your considerations will continue to inspire many of us, I know.
To misquote you, if I may - “Kell, we know you’re not here for a haircut.” I’m sure that the true nature of your purpose will become clear to the uncaring monolith that is the MoD, if it isn’t already abundantly clear.
All the very best, for Christmas, and onwards.
airsound
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kellie, I got one answer back from the MoD. That is regarding external costs spent so far on commercial lawyers involved in the Hercules Inquest.
The true costs should include those incurred by the MoDs lawyers but they do not seem able to supply those figures.
Iraq: Peacekeeping Operations
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much the Government have spent on its own legal (a) advice and (b) representation on the inquest into the service personnel killed in the Hercules crash in Iraq; what future costs have been projected; and if he will make a statement. [175284]
Des Browne: The total costs that have been charged to MOD for external legal advice and representation in respect of the inquest into fatalities arising from the Hercules crash in Iraq on 30 January 2005 is £25,414.94. This covers bills up to the end of October. No estimate can be provided for the future costs, as it is not possible to predict with any certainty what further work will be required.
The MOD’s own in-house legal advisers have also provided assistance in matters relating to preparation for the Hercules inquest.
The costs will ramp up massively for the Inquest itself. Hope this helps with the families claim for legal assistance.
Regards and happy christmas,
Nige
The true costs should include those incurred by the MoDs lawyers but they do not seem able to supply those figures.
Iraq: Peacekeeping Operations
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much the Government have spent on its own legal (a) advice and (b) representation on the inquest into the service personnel killed in the Hercules crash in Iraq; what future costs have been projected; and if he will make a statement. [175284]
Des Browne: The total costs that have been charged to MOD for external legal advice and representation in respect of the inquest into fatalities arising from the Hercules crash in Iraq on 30 January 2005 is £25,414.94. This covers bills up to the end of October. No estimate can be provided for the future costs, as it is not possible to predict with any certainty what further work will be required.
The MOD’s own in-house legal advisers have also provided assistance in matters relating to preparation for the Hercules inquest.
The costs will ramp up massively for the Inquest itself. Hope this helps with the families claim for legal assistance.
Regards and happy christmas,
Nige
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is quite extraordinary when they have their own bank of lawyers but feel the need to seek external legal advice in this case.
Remember their advice? This is a straightforward case of an aircraft shot down, it is a non adversarial procedure and there is no need for the families to be represented in court.
I'll remember that for a long time, for all the wrong reasons.
Remember their advice? This is a straightforward case of an aircraft shot down, it is a non adversarial procedure and there is no need for the families to be represented in court.
I'll remember that for a long time, for all the wrong reasons.
It is excruciatingly difficult for me to be critical but this is about the process and not the people.
it was an incident waiting to happen and I find it difficult that these factors were not considered from a systemic perspective
I strongly believe that the crew were let down by the absence of firm direction from higher command, and that inappropriate /inadequate risk analysis was undertaken to justify operations
I strongly believe that the crew were let down by the absence of firm direction from higher command, and that inappropriate /inadequate risk analysis was undertaken to justify operations
It is of course from your last post referring to XV179. Both accidents were indeed systemic failures. The difference of course is that NASA owned up to theirs, the MOD didn’t. That is why so much now hangs on the possibility of an inquiry into the Nimrod accident being broadened out into a full public inquiry into not only that accident but the state of UK military airworthiness enforcement in general. Would that address your wish to press for a review of the tactics and decisions that led to your husband’s death? No, I have to admit it would not, but it would have a lasting and telling effect on the fitness for purpose of UK military aircraft in the future. Whatever else went wrong on that fateful day one thing is certain, Hercules XV179 was not fit for purpose, nor was Nimrod XV230, nor was the Tornado downed by a Patriot missile, nor the Sea King in a mid-air collision. Why were they not? Because a self regulating airworthiness authority, the MOD, had failed in its duty to make them so. If that systemic failure can be addressed, by placing responsibility for UK military airworthiness regulation and enforcement away from the MOD and into an MAA, some good at least will have come from this tragedy and the too many others. Then, perhaps, fewer families will have to endure the anguish that you and so many others have had to bear. That is my hope and that of so many others on this forum, we can only keep trying to ensure that it happens.
Regards and, hopefully, a Happy Christmas,
Chug
Last edited by Chugalug2; 20th Dec 2007 at 13:24.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PQs
Legal Aid: Hercules Aircraft
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) who informed the press that the Australian Government would be paying the legal expenses of Kellie Merritt at the forthcoming inquest into deaths of service personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq; [175285]
(2) if he will make it his policy to provide legal aid and assistance to the British families at the forthcoming inquest into the deaths of personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq. [175286]
7 Jan 2008 : Column 154W
Maria Eagle: Representation at inquests is outside of the usual scope of the legal aid scheme as set out in the Access to Justice Act 1999 and other documents laid before Parliament. However, it can be made available in exceptional circumstances. There are published criteria that help determine whether a case is exceptional. Applications for exceptional funding must first be made to the Legal Services Commission (LSC). The Ministry understands that applications, in relation to the inquests into the deaths of personnel on the Hercules XV179 shot down in Iraq in January 2005, are currently being considered by the LSC. Only where the LSC considers that the exceptional criteria are met will the applications be passed to the Ministry of Justice for final determination. The Government have not advised the press about any representation of other parties at those inquests.
This is how it was reported by the Beeb
"The Legal Services Commission, which runs the legal aid scheme, says the questions which will be asked by the Australian lawyer, combined with the experience of the coroner, should serve the interests of the British relatives."
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) who informed the press that the Australian Government would be paying the legal expenses of Kellie Merritt at the forthcoming inquest into deaths of service personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq; [175285]
(2) if he will make it his policy to provide legal aid and assistance to the British families at the forthcoming inquest into the deaths of personnel on the Hercules aircraft shot down in Iraq. [175286]
7 Jan 2008 : Column 154W
Maria Eagle: Representation at inquests is outside of the usual scope of the legal aid scheme as set out in the Access to Justice Act 1999 and other documents laid before Parliament. However, it can be made available in exceptional circumstances. There are published criteria that help determine whether a case is exceptional. Applications for exceptional funding must first be made to the Legal Services Commission (LSC). The Ministry understands that applications, in relation to the inquests into the deaths of personnel on the Hercules XV179 shot down in Iraq in January 2005, are currently being considered by the LSC. Only where the LSC considers that the exceptional criteria are met will the applications be passed to the Ministry of Justice for final determination. The Government have not advised the press about any representation of other parties at those inquests.
This is how it was reported by the Beeb
"The Legal Services Commission, which runs the legal aid scheme, says the questions which will be asked by the Australian lawyer, combined with the experience of the coroner, should serve the interests of the British relatives."
Last edited by nigegilb; 9th Jan 2008 at 11:45.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bravery does not just occur on the battlefield. I often think of the impact that this event had on the ladies involved.
Ladies I salute you, and I am sure there is a lot who stand behind me on this.
Let us all hope that their deaths were not in vain, and that it will never occur again.
Every best wish for the future.
Regards
Col
Ladies I salute you, and I am sure there is a lot who stand behind me on this.
Let us all hope that their deaths were not in vain, and that it will never occur again.
Every best wish for the future.
Regards
Col
You make a very good point, Col, about the courage of relatives and partners who are bereaved.
I have personal experience that attests to that. My father was Missing in Action in a Beaufighter in 1942. For the remaining 56 years of her life, my mother expected him to walk through the door. He never did, and she never remarried. I never heard her complain about her appalling situation.
I was so struck by her fortitude that I felt able to say, in her death notice in the Telegraph, paraphrasing John Magee, "At last they are together again, there to dance the sky on laughter-silvered wings."
Courage indeed. And courage that clearly continues amongst the bereaved today.
airsound
I have personal experience that attests to that. My father was Missing in Action in a Beaufighter in 1942. For the remaining 56 years of her life, my mother expected him to walk through the door. He never did, and she never remarried. I never heard her complain about her appalling situation.
I was so struck by her fortitude that I felt able to say, in her death notice in the Telegraph, paraphrasing John Magee, "At last they are together again, there to dance the sky on laughter-silvered wings."
Courage indeed. And courage that clearly continues amongst the bereaved today.
airsound
After years of official obfuscation, and aeons of personal pain and frustration, we’ve finally arrived at the run up to the Inquest. It’s to be held by HM Coroner for Wiltshire & Swindon, David Masters, in Trowbridge. It starts on the 31st March - three years and two months after XV179 was shot down and all ten on board died.
As we approach the third anniversary of the tragedy on the 30th January, I thought this might be an appropriate moment to remind ourselves of a memorial tribute to those ten people. This is a real-time recording of the memorial flypast at the Royal International Air Tattoo on Sunday 17th July 2005, complete with the words and music. It takes 2mins 41secs.
airsound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SK3YV5E1ZQ
As we approach the third anniversary of the tragedy on the 30th January, I thought this might be an appropriate moment to remind ourselves of a memorial tribute to those ten people. This is a real-time recording of the memorial flypast at the Royal International Air Tattoo on Sunday 17th July 2005, complete with the words and music. It takes 2mins 41secs.
airsound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SK3YV5E1ZQ
My apologies. It was 'private', and I thought I had changed it to 'public', but apparently I didn't save the change properly. It should work now.
airsound
airsound
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that Airsound.
I never had the opportunity to pay my respects in person, even though most of my career was Herc based.
Watching that, it would appear to have become incredibly smokey all of a sudden.
My heart and thoughts go out to all of you, that have lost so much, god bless.
I never had the opportunity to pay my respects in person, even though most of my career was Herc based.
Watching that, it would appear to have become incredibly smokey all of a sudden.
My heart and thoughts go out to all of you, that have lost so much, god bless.
Last edited by kokpit; 19th Jan 2008 at 21:50.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: cambridge
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
some more good news..ish
the LSC has decided to give the families represented by the solicitor that i went on news 24 with the legal aid. thanks to that process there are a number of families who will now have representation in the court room.
thank you for those who have helped, the kind offers of assistance.
now chaps...time to man the stations and get ready for the next step in the quest for the truth.
keep the faith
the LSC has decided to give the families represented by the solicitor that i went on news 24 with the legal aid. thanks to that process there are a number of families who will now have representation in the court room.
thank you for those who have helped, the kind offers of assistance.
now chaps...time to man the stations and get ready for the next step in the quest for the truth.
keep the faith
Good news indeed, chappie. Let us hope that it is part of a general realisation by 'those in power' that they have more to lose by treating people in a cavalier and contemptuous manner than by according them the respect that they deserve. The news that the Porton Down 'Common Cold' veterans are to receive due recognition is hopefully another step in that direction, in any event if that is so then there is still a gulf of neglect to make up for.