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-   -   Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged) (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airways-qr-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged.html)

Stone_cold 26th Aug 2015 17:43

Not relevant ! It happened in Qatar and newbies should know what [email protected] goes on there . Put your head in the sand ..The salient point was that there still has been no justice !! And major improvements , you forget the most recent mall fire ..??Fire ravages Doha's Mall of Asia shopping centre - ArabianBusiness.com .You are a joke ...maybe a recruiter or the management that BP refers to who is monitoring the site ...or just a kiss a$$ informant .

What about the f/o and his family in the desert ,,,no relevance??? Keep drinking the qoolaid .

And in relation to laws , I am not referring to accident jurisdiction . I am referring to medieval ME shariah BS .

Again , do the flight ops management get fired with alarming regularity . OF, AQ, AAF, JE...to name a few ..??

So you admit it is not a western system , so give the newbies the full story .

As for 13-14 year pilots on the 320 ...yeah , right ...Pilot's with three digit seniority on the 320 ..unless demoted ( entirely possible ) , or as instructors...even then ...HF is the only one that comes to mind .

Anna452 26th Aug 2015 19:25

WrldWide well said :ok: i have also heard positive stories from others in Qatar :)

Flytdeck 26th Aug 2015 20:19


Not relevant ! It happened in Qatar and newbies should know what [email protected] goes on there . Put your head in the sand ..The salient point was that there still has been no justice !! And major improvements , you forget the most recent mall fire ..??Fire ravages Doha's Mall of Asia shopping centre - ArabianBusiness.com .You are a joke ...maybe a recruiter or the management that BP refers to who is monitoring the site ...or just a kiss a$$ informant .
Mr. Stoned:

It is depressing getting sucked into these raves and I really should know better. Is it really the best you can do to suppose because the reason and logic behind a reasonable response cannot be refuted that it must come from some evil doppelganger? Sad. (did I just call management an evil doppelganger? I am so going to burn...)

You are pointing toward isolated domestic accidents and attempting to apply them to expatriate working conditions. Separate your rhetoric to legal, political and humanitarian issues and refrain from using such sad occurrences as the Villagio catastrophe to support your vindictive points. This tragedy should and never will be forgotten and remember, this is not a western country and justice here takes a very different form. There are worse things than jail. Using this event to attempt to support your argument is just wrong.

Expanding on that reference, this country is NOT a jail. You may not have noticed, but when entering or leaving most countries these days, you must pass through immigration/emigration. What could go wrong? If you have committed a crime and try to leave the country you may have a problem even in the USA and Canada where airlines must check your passports and TRANSFER THE INFORMATION TO THE FEDERAL AUTHORITIES! Drive across the border? Same thing. Not so different from living here EXCEPT that the employers have some say over whether you may leave or not. If you have completed your contract then there is no contest. Some pilots, of course, elect to remain abroad and not return from a flight.

We do enjoy several beverages here but "qoolaid"? Is this a unique blend of refined paranoia?

Possibly you believe this is an archaic system of justice compared to Western Law? Honestly, do you believe anyone can possibly be in a position to judge who is right or wrong. It mostly depends on your social and moral upbringing combined with a bit of religious relevance. All are subjective and possibly you are right, possibly you are wrong. Those coming to work here will be aware that this is a Muslim country. Why carry on about it? Newbies are not stupid.

Not complaining about the management shuffle. It things keep improving then I support it. I only am concerned when the safety management teams are impacted and to this point they have remained intact. There are some good people in there (mostly). The one aspect of management shuffles that irritates me is that most people have to place their own stamp on operations which tends to generate many pointless revisions. I HATE pointless revisions.

Not sure about your A320 references of HF? Enlighten please.

As mentioned before, scroll up to Black Pudding's message. There is enough there to assist with the decision process. Your posts, to me, just weave a fragile thread to the dark side without full consideration.

Stone_cold 26th Aug 2015 21:07

Point 1. You agree that the employer has "some" control over emigration issues ..laughable! It is quite different , my employer cannot detain me in the country without a court issued order . Are you trying to deny that QR can simply choose to deny you permission to leave , nothing to do with any law of the land ? Are you saying that for example , a crew was under investigation for an inflight turnback due to inability to get a reasonable flight level ,(there was no danger to the flight , it just resulted in delays) , could a north american company prevent you from leaving or crossing the border ?? Could this request even make it to border control?With this beautiful ( some control ) system , QR can initiate this themselves without any input from the Country's legal or immigration departments ! I think that is a significant difference .

Point 2 . You stated.. many measures and improvements ..,I just provided a later example. Your fellow pilots family could be affected and should know . Where are the improvements ? Same improvements which dictate that it is illegal to withhold employee passports ( law since ~ 2008/2009) , but it is reported that some ( 90% ?)employers still do this with impunity . ( not a QR issue ..moreso at the level of the unfortunate labourers) .

Point 3 . There was also a fire/explosion at one of the Company compounds with a worker seriously injured ..quality workmanship and qualified workers .

Mother complained about air conditioning unit that 'caused Qatar villa fire' before blaze | Daily Mail Online

Fire at Qatar Foundation continues to smolder 12 hours later - Doha News

Doha mall roof collapses injuring shoppers - ArabianBusiness.com

Seems like fires are very isolated.

It's refreshing that you have a positive spin on everything ..for the sake of balance ..I don't . Flight operation management changes averaging every 6 months to a year for the last decade ???Obviously it has been for the better , it certainly provides continuity , right ?

Qoolaid ..qatari koolaid .

Newbies may not be stupid , but they certainly don't know all the gotchas . Like the f/o who spent a year without a place to live , fired from QR , unable to leave because he had an outstanding property loan . They may not be aware that the banks throw money at you , but if the **** hits the fan , they want their money , there is no such concept as collateral , Cars ,property ...it's all yours once you sign . You cannot say oops Mr. Bank ,I lost my job and can't make the payments , so here is your property . Go to jail , do not pass go ...do not collect $200 ..Apologies if you never played monopoly as a kid .

As many state , many like it ...many get by quite well ....It doesn't mean that the dark side does not exist . So both sides be told !

dieana 27th Aug 2015 01:16

DEC Type Rated Boeing
 
Hi guys,

I applied last may to DEC position but still no news, my status says "new". Does anybody know something about this, any date to restart the calling?


Good flights and blue skies.

Flytdeck 27th Aug 2015 01:29

Well, at least you stopped calling me management.

Before we go through your points, I think it would be best to separate the issues between Qatar Living (including political and religious), Qatar Legal, and Qatar Airways. They all have up and downsides, just as anywhere.

Point 1/ Qatar Legal Issue. QR can indeed deny exit. To do so they only need to make a request to immigration. At that point it goes to the labour ministry if the reason for denial is not associated with contract, legal or monetary infringement At that point a hearing is held (time sensitive though can't remember how long) and if the denial does not fall within the immigration parameters, it is removed. Different system. QR cannot operate here without impunity as unreasonable actions reflect badly on the Monarchy.

If you are relating an actual story then I would like to hear the details.

Point 2/ Qatar Living: It is illegal to withhold passports. This is a long standing problem here but a few companies and their owners have been dragged through the courts. It still happens but not as much. The foreign general workers here are treated marginally better than migrants from Mexico in the USA. With the World Cup coming in 2022 and the inherent scrutiny from foreign nations, there is likely to be an improvement. This is Qatar Living and it is a nasty part of living in this part of the world. One must remember that the workers CHOOSE to be here and now have recourse if mistreated (including returning home prior to contract completion).
Expanding on this. Qatar is a terrible place for blue collar workers, especially construction during the summer. Would not recommend taking one of these jobs.

Point 3/ Qatar Living: There have been mines collapse in China, factories explode in Russia, fires in nightclubs in USA, rooftop garages collapsing in Canada. If your point is that Qatar has industrial accidents, sure. And fires. There are 2,300,000+ people living here and on any given day the number of industrial accidents likely compares to most other countries in the world.

You are quite right. For the management positions are not very stable. For the rest of us, we are just fine and "continuous". As mentioned previously (and has been stated in point form in previous messages), as long as working conditions improve then they can shift the management as much as they want (as long as they leave the safety team alone).

So I was right about Qoolaid....

Newbies know this is not a perfect place. From the very start of this thread there is enough information to do the research and make an informed decision. One more time, read the Black Pudding message then make the decision. Most of us are quite content here and I propose that most who come here will be too. As in ANY country, there will be "gotchas" as asking the questions and doing the research will help you avoid them. Sure be cautions about moving here but being paranoid is just an indication one has consumed too much .. Qoolaid.

Black Pudding 27th Aug 2015 15:21

Anyway, back on topic, the water is not as cold and dirty as some may think. Some are enjoying it, some are not. Those that are tend not to bother posting here. Those that are not and have an axe to grind tend to post negative here. It's sometimes good to get a view from both sides.

Am I looking to leave, nope. Just wish there was more trees, grass and hills. The only thing I hate here is the driving standards.

As for the company, I am as happy as can be. It's a job. I am here to work, it's my workplace. Simple as that. Life here is ok. Safe and very little chance of being robbed or assaulted.

Would I choose to live here, no. Would I choose to work elsewhere for another company ? Until I see anything better, I have no plans to leave. Take each day as it comes.

Do I worry about working here, nope not at all. Just do my job and smile.

Do I enjoy my job, yes I do but it can be tiring as often changing from day flights to night flights and vice versa.

All I can ask is if your not happy here, do me and others a favour and leave. I do want to listen to crap like the above whilst I am on a 12 hour shift. Be mature enough to sort yourself out and get yourself another job elsewhere.

I am grateful Stone Cold takes the time to post what he does. I don't agree with most of what he writes, but at least it opens up the opportunity to allow those more intelligent than me to be able to reply to his thoughts and views.

Those that are waiting to come here, it's not as bad as it sounds. I often speak to colleagues here who are very also very happy and have no intentions of leaving. I seldom here from anyone who is looking to leave.

The job is simple, the equipment is top and well maintained.
In the few years I have been here, I have never felt pressurised into doing anything I should not have been doing. This company is very strict on you doing the job as you're suppose to and as safe as possible. They are very strict on being stable by 1000 feet. They are also very strict on company image and appearance etc. I get breathalised before a flight at least once a week. I have no problems with this at all. They don't take any crap from anyone, it's as simple as that.

If you can't take working for a company as such, they apply elsewhere and good luck to you.

If anyone would like to suggest another company for me or others to look at for employment, please feel free to list them here.

foswillruletheworld 27th Aug 2015 21:45

I have been selected for the type rating class of January 2016. I received the job offer and i have signed and sent it.
However when i see people around directly put into the pool i get chills.
Should i be worried that i might not be called for the type rating class?
I am a 737 experienced FO applied for 777 non rated.
I don't know where i should stand. Should i look for another job(for just in casse situation) or can i trust QR for my recruitment?

Black Pudding 28th Aug 2015 02:28

I would say once you have been given a start date, it's pretty well set in stone. It may get put back a couple of weeks, but this is something that does not happen often.

Vmax400 28th Aug 2015 12:10

Guys I joined one year ago, and trust me everything I heard before I join was not true. Read Black Pudding threads, he mentioned everything you need to know.

I was accepted in the three big gulf carriers and I decided to join QR, and I don't feel regret at all. We have a quite good number of pilots who have been here for many years and not thinking to leave.

The company expects you to do your job as described in your operational manual, so read your books carefuly and you'll get what you want.

The operation is very relaxed, everybody does his job, respect each other and leave happily.

Qatar is still under development and the culture is quite deferent for some, its changing slowly, but remember that we are here to work not to change the country.

For the guys thinking to joing, don't hesitate just come and build up your careers.

Iznogood 28th Aug 2015 14:38

Happiness score
EK: 0
QR: 3

I think I would go for a ride in Doha

Black Pudding 28th Aug 2015 15:42

Your happiness scoring system will not be fair or realistic as no one from EY will be reading our thread. They are far too busy with their own problems.

Iznogood 28th Aug 2015 16:13

Actually I have sought in vain along the rocky roads of pprune about the "unnamed" one. Maybe guys are too busy enjoying their happiness?
Would you give us some light on that in order to ensure an unbiased trustworthy happiness scoring system?
Your help is deeply appreciated! :)

Black Pudding 28th Aug 2015 16:38

Can't comment on the un named as never worked there. Just know some left us to join them. Some are happy, some re applied to come back. Me, I am happy here so would not waste my time moving from one desert to another. I think living where they are maybe nicer, but not so sure the job is any better than here.

Ldggrup 28th Aug 2015 18:44

-foswillruletheworld
 
Hi Mate.. Congratulations for your type rating class date. Can you tell when did you apply, interview, good news and joining..

Iznogood 28th Aug 2015 19:29

Thank you for your input! Since upgrade time is fastest in QR let's attribute the silver medal to the 'famous unkown'. Regarding EK, complains and bitterness seem to be too much to be ignored...

RockyMntAV8R 28th Aug 2015 20:50

Where can I look at the T& C for A-320 DEC at Qatar? I can not find the specifics anywhere within the Qatar current openings section of their website. I am looking for as much information as possible, travel benefits for pilot and family, annual leave days, medical insurance, company provided housing, salary etc.
Thanks for any information.
Rocky

CAT1 29th Aug 2015 03:30

Crikey, I hope I never have to fly with Stone-cold, what a miserable trip that would be......why you still here? Did they imprison you?

In answer to a post I read about having to be type-rated on the 777, I've not seen a type-rated new F/O for a long time.

Stone_cold 29th Aug 2015 06:40

CAT1 . Apr 22,2013 , quote :

I came here as DEC wide-body three years ago. A lot of what is written here is true, some seems exaggerated. My wife and myself maintained a positive attitude here until eventually it was worn down by a process of slow abrasion, and it was not the job that led to this. But I will start with a bit about the job.

If you do an unstable approach, and go-around, nothing will happen. If you land from an unstable approach, both of you are in line for the sack. In my time here I have had no problems at all at work, and if you do what the company wants and keep your opinions to yourself, it's a pretty easy job. The aircraft are reliable, the roster is manageable, and the day to day operation of the airline runs smoothly.
The training has improved markedly in the time I have been here, but there's still a few trainers who think the best way to train is to prove to you how well they know the manuals and how much cleverer they are than you.
As long as you understand that management are not in the least interested in individuals, you won't be disappointed. The vast majority of pilots here came because their previous employer went bankrupt. The company has no problem getting applications, and until this changes, their attitude will remain one of thinking that they are doing you a favour by employing you. The recent reduction to a maximum consecutive amount of days-off from 8 to 4 has no practical purpose whatsoever. Read into that what you will.

However, I'll not go on about working conditions any more, as that has been well covered in previous posts. For my wife and myself, the main issue is not the airline, but the location. Unless you like malls and getting drunk in very expensive hotel bars or nightclubs, there is very little to do here outside your home. If you have a high-maintenance wife, she'll love it, as there is plenty of bling to spend your money on.....not much else though.

The temperature is over 40 degrees for 6 months of the year, so you spend the vast majority of your time air-conditioned. The summers are so hot that people end up losing their sun-tans from never going outside. Walking anywhere is almost impossible due to no sidewalks, heat and dangerous traffic. The air quality is very poor year round and the dust gets absolutely everywhere - beware if you're an asthma sufferer.
During Ramadan, which is currently mid-summer, you will be arrested if you are seen drinking water, eating or smoking outside your house or even in your car during the day, so most people (including the locals) stay indoors in daylight hours for 4 weeks. The migrant workers on the roads and construction sites however are expected to work all day with no food or water, often with the inevitable consequences. Two years ago during Ramadan a guy knocked on our door with severe dehydration, and if we hadn't brought him in and given him some water I am not sure he would have survived much longer. The traffic is horrendous, and the standard of driving among the worst I have ever encountered (I include India and the whole of Africa in this assessment). Over-taking can and will happen from any lane (or from off-road) at any time, with no indicators used, often while half-way round a roundabout. White Land-cruisers will drive an inch behind you flashing their lights at you to move over, regardless of whether there is anywhere to move over to. The driver will most likely be talking on his mobile phone and have a kid in his lap while doing this. Cars will leave the road, drive along the dirt to pass a line of cars, and force their way in front of you, while pretending not to notice you. If you have an accident involving a local, it is your fault.
You need an exit visa to leave the country, and forget about a second passport, as if that does not show an entry stamp and tourist visa it won't get you out of the country. The badly-paid migrant workers who make up the vast majority of the population have absolutely no rights. If they abscond from their employer (who holds their passport) for any reason whatsoever, they will go to jail. If their employer does not give them written permission to leave the country, they cannot leave. They have no redress to any organisation that protects their human rights.

I could go on, but for anyone thinking of moving here. especially with a family, there's a lot more to consider than just the job or the company. A vast amount of wives do not make it past one year before returning home, leaving hubby to try and commute as best as possible (which has just been made more difficult by reducing the max consecutive days off from 8 to 4). I'd estimate at least 50% of married pilots here longer than one year (and that's probably a conservative estimate) are now here on their own. I'm one of the lucky ones, but it's getting close to me joining that 50%.....time to move on. The education allowance does not cover two kids school fees here, and places are hard to come by, so if you're moving here with kids you need to start looking at schooling sooner rather than later. One captain who joined recently had to pay a years school fees up front before his joining date, and the company has refused to reimburse him as he paid before his date of commencement of employment. Kids tend to like it here until they reach about 14-15 yrs old, at which point they seem to suddenly turn to hating it.

For single folks, life here is much easier, and if you are young and like partying, restaurants, and malls (and are not particularly interested in saving money), it's probably not too bad.

Overall it's an extremely false existence in a materialistic world and any exonerating factors pall very quickly.
10 June 2014 , quote :

The Taliban have claimed responsibility. The 5 Taliban released in exchange for the American soldier recently are now living in Qatar, along with around twenty of their cohorts*BBC News - How Qatar came to host the Taliban*. As the national airline of Qatar is government owned, we now have the owners of a major international airline openly supporting a group who blow up airports. Pretty bizarre.
.

Guess you have had a change of heart ??

Black Pudding 29th Aug 2015 14:49

Stone_Cold

Which wonderful Airline do you work for now. Like I said earlier, I would like to know where the perfect job and country is that an ex pat could think about going to.

Anyone other airline job suggestions is most welcome, not that I am looking to leave here, just interested in your thoughts on this.


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