Emirates (EK) Interview - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Agree with many points on the post but not with duty FTL's. I guess it will depend on which fleet you fly but in over 2 years here, not one flight into discretion. That is a World apart from the charter operation left behind where discretion was the norm on many long night flights. I also disagree with lack of choice( have always got what I requested in top 2 months and most of bids in 3rd month. Rarely seems to be a problem either with day off requests, providing you give them priority and low points for other bid requests. There are still some guys out there not bidding correctly so it's no wonder they're disappointed most months.
As I said, agree with most of the points, especially provident fund, but just trying to offer a balanced view from my own personal experience.
As a slight aside, was I the only one who was misled before applying that the EOB ( End Of service Benefits) would be in Addition to money created in the provident fund. I'm sure that the advert placed in flight contained the EOB as a seperate benefit to the provident fund leading me to believe that this would be an added bonus, NOT an either or! The truth, however, was pointed out after joining!
BYMONEK
As I said, agree with most of the points, especially provident fund, but just trying to offer a balanced view from my own personal experience.
As a slight aside, was I the only one who was misled before applying that the EOB ( End Of service Benefits) would be in Addition to money created in the provident fund. I'm sure that the advert placed in flight contained the EOB as a seperate benefit to the provident fund leading me to believe that this would be an added bonus, NOT an either or! The truth, however, was pointed out after joining!
BYMONEK
I agree with most of your post, but you have to read between the lines when hearing the EK blurb and reading WW's post.
1.Only believe new routes when they appear on the bid system.
2.A340-600's, where has the announcement of cancellation of options/orders been made please WW. Just for verification please??
3.Staff Travel- Coming from a UK charter operator, this system is wayyy better than anything i have previously known. Yes ID 90's are a rip off to UK, but on the whole better for me.
4 FTL's should never be broke by the company or us. The system is like CAP 371, with some adjustments
Anyhow, augmenting died a death. I am surprised at how many colleagues aren't aware how close some trips are to the limits!
Anyhow, great post WW.
EGGW.
1.Only believe new routes when they appear on the bid system.
2.A340-600's, where has the announcement of cancellation of options/orders been made please WW. Just for verification please??
3.Staff Travel- Coming from a UK charter operator, this system is wayyy better than anything i have previously known. Yes ID 90's are a rip off to UK, but on the whole better for me.
4 FTL's should never be broke by the company or us. The system is like CAP 371, with some adjustments
Anyhow, augmenting died a death. I am surprised at how many colleagues aren't aware how close some trips are to the limits!Anyhow, great post WW.
EGGW.
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Waroftheworlds
You are right about one thing, I will disagree with a lot of what is written. I do agree with your last paragraph but would add that the only view a person should trust is their own.
I can't help myself though....
"No choice as to what you fly".
Refer to the recent thread where a successful applicant was asked A330 or B777.
The majority of pilots are promoted in seniority as per the FOM.
"Border of FTDL's - Always".
Give me a break. Emotional stuff but fortunately you are incorrect.
"Little or no rest?
No say about days off or trips?"
Do we work in the same airline?
As for staff travel, it's exactly as it was when you joined so you shouldn't be surprised about the conditions and it's a lot better than most airlines.
I could go on but just can't be bothered, noteworthy for those reviewing this thread is that not all agree with what has been written.
You are right about one thing, I will disagree with a lot of what is written. I do agree with your last paragraph but would add that the only view a person should trust is their own.
I can't help myself though....
"No choice as to what you fly".
Refer to the recent thread where a successful applicant was asked A330 or B777.
The majority of pilots are promoted in seniority as per the FOM.
"Border of FTDL's - Always".
Give me a break. Emotional stuff but fortunately you are incorrect.
"Little or no rest?
No say about days off or trips?"
Do we work in the same airline?
As for staff travel, it's exactly as it was when you joined so you shouldn't be surprised about the conditions and it's a lot better than most airlines.
I could go on but just can't be bothered, noteworthy for those reviewing this thread is that not all agree with what has been written.
Bymonek,
Here is some insight from the Laura Ashley fleet (oops meant Airbus).
1. At the moment Adopt delivers a roster, which is based upon the requests entered. Adopt crunches away to come up with a solution. Unfortunatley, we have the cheap option...it looks at a legal month only, unaware that a lot of trips will be illegal because of 900hrs in the past 12months, not enough rest days before hand etc. Now to make sure it all kind of works, a group of young ladies sit down with all the rosters, and check them manually. Hence the adjustments that are made between the adopt solution, and the solution which is printed and delivered to the mail box three to five days later. This is the reason that the Bus rosters are run after everybody elses, and delivered up to 1 week after the Boeing roster.
Now, because of this factoring thing which happened for a while then was taken away, but will still count if needed...no-one has any idea how many hours they are on at any given time. So, they sit down, and bid just as you do, hoping not too many adjustments will be made. So no matter how well they bid, they may not end up with the adopt solution. So to suggest that they are dim and unable to bid correctly is very short sighted...so I can see a long career for you within the EK management team.
2. Have a quick look at the ICN, PVG patterns. Have a look at the HKG-BKK-DXB pattern. Also consider that during winter, the actual flight time for these flights excedes the planned block time by 30 to 40min. Then consider why those who fly these trips are a bit peeved with FTLs. I have checked the EK web site once again and it makes nooo mention of EK being a charter company. (To help you out, these flights are in descretion before you even leave the hotel!!!! All of them are all nighters, with two pilots.)
So I am very glad that your two years here have been free from these evils. Long may it continue to be so.
Don
Here is some insight from the Laura Ashley fleet (oops meant Airbus).
1. At the moment Adopt delivers a roster, which is based upon the requests entered. Adopt crunches away to come up with a solution. Unfortunatley, we have the cheap option...it looks at a legal month only, unaware that a lot of trips will be illegal because of 900hrs in the past 12months, not enough rest days before hand etc. Now to make sure it all kind of works, a group of young ladies sit down with all the rosters, and check them manually. Hence the adjustments that are made between the adopt solution, and the solution which is printed and delivered to the mail box three to five days later. This is the reason that the Bus rosters are run after everybody elses, and delivered up to 1 week after the Boeing roster.
Now, because of this factoring thing which happened for a while then was taken away, but will still count if needed...no-one has any idea how many hours they are on at any given time. So, they sit down, and bid just as you do, hoping not too many adjustments will be made. So no matter how well they bid, they may not end up with the adopt solution. So to suggest that they are dim and unable to bid correctly is very short sighted...so I can see a long career for you within the EK management team.
2. Have a quick look at the ICN, PVG patterns. Have a look at the HKG-BKK-DXB pattern. Also consider that during winter, the actual flight time for these flights excedes the planned block time by 30 to 40min. Then consider why those who fly these trips are a bit peeved with FTLs. I have checked the EK web site once again and it makes nooo mention of EK being a charter company. (To help you out, these flights are in descretion before you even leave the hotel!!!! All of them are all nighters, with two pilots.)
So I am very glad that your two years here have been free from these evils. Long may it continue to be so.
Don
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Sorry GN you are incorrect our FTL are some what tainted ......sure its all written in the FOM but in practice its very different.
WOTW was correct.
Why was the DXB-SEY-DXB sector operated for so long with just 3 guys and not the 4 we now have.
Remember the DXB-Moscow-DXB with just 2 guys...another Cunning Stunt
Hey what about the DXB-Seoul-DXB with 2 guys and a Bus ride that never ends from the Airport to the Hotel (usually 90 minutes)where the FOM says you are required to have 30 hours rest to operate under the "variation"
Lots of other examples. Not much point in highlighting them because the powers that be dont seem to worry.
Maybe what they are saying on the board is correct and you are from management because all of us drivers know that at the end of the day EK will do what they have allways been doing.
I dont think its worth getting wound up about it, just try and fly safe and hope for more than 9 days off next month.
WOTW was correct.
Why was the DXB-SEY-DXB sector operated for so long with just 3 guys and not the 4 we now have.
Remember the DXB-Moscow-DXB with just 2 guys...another Cunning Stunt
Hey what about the DXB-Seoul-DXB with 2 guys and a Bus ride that never ends from the Airport to the Hotel (usually 90 minutes)where the FOM says you are required to have 30 hours rest to operate under the "variation"
Lots of other examples. Not much point in highlighting them because the powers that be dont seem to worry.
Maybe what they are saying on the board is correct and you are from management because all of us drivers know that at the end of the day EK will do what they have allways been doing.
I dont think its worth getting wound up about it, just try and fly safe and hope for more than 9 days off next month.
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GN,
Regarding FTLs, ww is not far off. Wake up. On the Airbus fleet there are over a hundred guys flying illegally. Look up the thread on EK FTLs (from about a week ago) if you want clarification. Your absence from that discussion was noteworthy.
Regarding FTLs, ww is not far off. Wake up. On the Airbus fleet there are over a hundred guys flying illegally. Look up the thread on EK FTLs (from about a week ago) if you want clarification. Your absence from that discussion was noteworthy.
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Wotow has claimed that FTDL's are "always" on the border of FTDL's.
Has anyone gone into discretion on a DOH, MCT,KWI, or even a VIE, MUC, FRA, HKG, NBO, LHR, LGW, or SIN, lately?
There are a few patterns that "border" on FTDL's and are quite simply unsafe.
Take a leaf from Don, he's identified the patterns that have got peoples attention and need to be addressed by management.
To claim that we are always on the border of FTDL's is utter trash.
Backwater
Sorry I couldn't make the thread, I had better things to do.
Has anyone gone into discretion on a DOH, MCT,KWI, or even a VIE, MUC, FRA, HKG, NBO, LHR, LGW, or SIN, lately?
There are a few patterns that "border" on FTDL's and are quite simply unsafe.
Take a leaf from Don, he's identified the patterns that have got peoples attention and need to be addressed by management.
To claim that we are always on the border of FTDL's is utter trash.
Backwater
Sorry I couldn't make the thread, I had better things to do.
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Global Nomad i have been in discretion on HKG and NBO recently remember the flight goes to NBO and then they stick another 2 sectors on top. No you don't go into discretion on a DOH but they usually stick one of these after a 340 trip when you are totally shagged out.
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Hey, what is with this GN rightious fool??
Why does he seem to have the final say in matters, and does corrective edditing to guys posts?
Is he a manager, wind-up or ignorant tosser?
He obviously does not lead the same life as the rest of us.
I say lets fly fast, keep lower levels for extra TAS to get home early YEAH!!
Talk about all the jobs out there and how crap our salaries are.
Go sick on a whim.
Treat the company the way it treats us YEAH!
Sorry been on the piss, will have to apologise tomorrow.
Why does he seem to have the final say in matters, and does corrective edditing to guys posts?
Is he a manager, wind-up or ignorant tosser?
He obviously does not lead the same life as the rest of us.
I say lets fly fast, keep lower levels for extra TAS to get home early YEAH!!
Talk about all the jobs out there and how crap our salaries are.
Go sick on a whim.
Treat the company the way it treats us YEAH!
Sorry been on the piss, will have to apologise tomorrow.
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Don,
Glad to see that you've not lost your sense of humour. I'd guess that would be a prerequisite for being on the Bus fleet. You're correct on the flights you mention re FTL's but that hardly constitutes EVERY flight as was implied by WW. However, that does not make it right , I agree and would have no hesitation in refusing a duty if it was rostered illegally. Thanks also for the insight into the Airbus bids. If true and I don't doubt you for one minute, then we need more guys on the fleet. But that will mean no overtime of course.......! As I said, I can only speak from my own experience which to date has been good. I never said that any pilot was dim but I do know that there are still some pilots not bidding correctly.
Regards
BYMONEK
Glad to see that you've not lost your sense of humour. I'd guess that would be a prerequisite for being on the Bus fleet. You're correct on the flights you mention re FTL's but that hardly constitutes EVERY flight as was implied by WW. However, that does not make it right , I agree and would have no hesitation in refusing a duty if it was rostered illegally. Thanks also for the insight into the Airbus bids. If true and I don't doubt you for one minute, then we need more guys on the fleet. But that will mean no overtime of course.......! As I said, I can only speak from my own experience which to date has been good. I never said that any pilot was dim but I do know that there are still some pilots not bidding correctly.
Regards
BYMONEK
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Hey, what is with this GN righteous fool??
BYMONEK, I think you will find DON is on the 777 fleet, which is remarkable considering how spot on his posts are
Bymonek,
I am glad you see my point. Now, when WW states that FTLs are always on the boarderline, he is not far from the truth. However, I will concede that things have improved a little in the past month or so. What is/has happened is that the Bus drivers have been rostered to 90-100hrs per month for the past two years...month after month. And to make it all the more exciting some months went to 130-140hrs when the dreaded factoring was employed. So what!!! I hear you say...well these high hour months, have also had min days off...ie 8 to 9, and legal min turn around times between flights. Now this takes some very special rostering to be able to do this....and does wonders for fatigue and health. But it is now coming home to bite the company in the butt, as fellas in large numbers have now flown all they are allowed to..hence the roster problem discussed before.
To put it in terms that you understand, consider flying the DXB-SIN-BNE-AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB pattern. Then having one or two days off then doing it all over again, and so on and so on, for 2 years straight. Now the number of nights per pattern for the Bus guys is far less, the the hours in the tube, and the time zone changes (but they happen a bit more quickly and are a larger change) are the same. When a group of days off was finally given, imagine the joy of seeing them interrupted with a midnight DOH!!
And as you stated there is the overtime. This is true. But wouldn't it be nice if the company could arrange rosters to give the fellas some time off to spend it!!! Luckily the Bus drivers, and soon to be the Boeing crews as well, when the rest area arrives, will not have to worry about provident funds and the like, as I do not think that these rosters, and old age are compatable.
Now if only the company for could some more thick B@rstards like us to join, we would have enough crews to make it all work.
Here endeth the lesson.
Don
I am glad you see my point. Now, when WW states that FTLs are always on the boarderline, he is not far from the truth. However, I will concede that things have improved a little in the past month or so. What is/has happened is that the Bus drivers have been rostered to 90-100hrs per month for the past two years...month after month. And to make it all the more exciting some months went to 130-140hrs when the dreaded factoring was employed. So what!!! I hear you say...well these high hour months, have also had min days off...ie 8 to 9, and legal min turn around times between flights. Now this takes some very special rostering to be able to do this....and does wonders for fatigue and health. But it is now coming home to bite the company in the butt, as fellas in large numbers have now flown all they are allowed to..hence the roster problem discussed before.
To put it in terms that you understand, consider flying the DXB-SIN-BNE-AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB pattern. Then having one or two days off then doing it all over again, and so on and so on, for 2 years straight. Now the number of nights per pattern for the Bus guys is far less, the the hours in the tube, and the time zone changes (but they happen a bit more quickly and are a larger change) are the same. When a group of days off was finally given, imagine the joy of seeing them interrupted with a midnight DOH!!
And as you stated there is the overtime. This is true. But wouldn't it be nice if the company could arrange rosters to give the fellas some time off to spend it!!! Luckily the Bus drivers, and soon to be the Boeing crews as well, when the rest area arrives, will not have to worry about provident funds and the like, as I do not think that these rosters, and old age are compatable.
Now if only the company for could some more thick B@rstards like us to join, we would have enough crews to make it all work.
Here endeth the lesson.
Don
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You lot never stop do you. Fecks sake.Big plane, nice birds, lotsa booze, no alquieda (**** on doorstep theory).
DEC, ROSTA, PAY, FTL.Ad nauseum. Dont mean to be rude but the constant public airing of your dirty washing doesnt do you any favours. The frequency of the same old bitching on this forum does speak volumes about ek but enough is enough though. Wouldnt it be better served on a private forum. Have a look a round this website and compare other company's (on open forum) levels of whinging. My company is hardly ever on these forums even though we do have problems but the bosses do pay for piss ups at least twice a year which helps.
Now have a word with yourselves its getting emabrrasing to the profession as a whole.
DEC, ROSTA, PAY, FTL.Ad nauseum. Dont mean to be rude but the constant public airing of your dirty washing doesnt do you any favours. The frequency of the same old bitching on this forum does speak volumes about ek but enough is enough though. Wouldnt it be better served on a private forum. Have a look a round this website and compare other company's (on open forum) levels of whinging. My company is hardly ever on these forums even though we do have problems but the bosses do pay for piss ups at least twice a year which helps.
Now have a word with yourselves its getting emabrrasing to the profession as a whole.
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Bart, we do have our own forum, unfortunately this requires registration and donation of our staff numbers. When you work in a country where you have few civil rights then you may understand why pilots use this, their only forum to air their grievances, in the lorne hope that some manager might listen. I would figure by your comments that you live back somewhere civilised, in that case you have no idea what you are talking about. If you find it embarrassing, then p**s off and have a drink with your managers, a privilege we are unable to copy, even if we wanted to.
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Well said Bart,
fella's ( at EK ) do you honestly think it is any better here in the UK, or anywhere else in Europe ! i have friends flying for most major uk airlines and they all - including myself- are flying 800 -900 hours a year with min rest at home.
The only quick commands here are at easyjet and ryanair and bmi baby - low cost operaters !
Most other airlines it is at least a 7-10 year wait !
So my heart does not bleed for you guys ! sorry !
We are all in the same boat, sadly that is the way the industry has turned - everywhere and at most airlines, not just EK !
fella's ( at EK ) do you honestly think it is any better here in the UK, or anywhere else in Europe ! i have friends flying for most major uk airlines and they all - including myself- are flying 800 -900 hours a year with min rest at home.
The only quick commands here are at easyjet and ryanair and bmi baby - low cost operaters !
Most other airlines it is at least a 7-10 year wait !
So my heart does not bleed for you guys ! sorry !
We are all in the same boat, sadly that is the way the industry has turned - everywhere and at most airlines, not just EK !
Fellas does it really matter who GN is? He is entitled to his say just as we all are.
It has been said that the use of the private forum is avoided because people are scared of being found out, now here we are trying to oust people in the public forum.
Don
It has been said that the use of the private forum is avoided because people are scared of being found out, now here we are trying to oust people in the public forum.
Don