Emirates (EK) Interview - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
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what is told at interview ek/what is reality?
bumped into some guys on day two of interview, nice guys, all hopeing for fo positions.intrested to here that the 777 head recruitment chap informed them that there is transitional upgrades.................is the fom out of date or does he know about a change in policy.
If the middle east carriers had any balls, they would get rid of the pilot ban for swapping airlines and let the crews decide whos gonna win.....................
If they treated people properly nobody would want to swap, but they cant yet ban us from Europe or Asia....Can they?
If they treated people properly nobody would want to swap, but they cant yet ban us from Europe or Asia....Can they?
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let me give a bit more info on the conversation with the future guys.they were obviously keen to get lots of info on job, dubai and command prospects. one of the chaps asks about upgrade rules and timeings, i was very factual and tried to give an unbiased opinion, the fact that the FOM states that "there are no transitional upgrades" is clear cut. so when all the guys informed me that, without a doubt the head of recruitment told them the complete opposite really worries me.
if offered the job the guys will make life changeing decisions on the facts and information given on the three days. rules and condition do change, but to blatently tell someone an "untruth" is more like a used car sales man pitch.
i was thinking of asking the head of recruitment if this is all a mistake, a miss understanding, the guys i spoke to did not have english as a first language, but been advised to just keep out of the spotlight.................
anyone been on interview recently who could confirm or deny what actualy is sold....
if offered the job the guys will make life changeing decisions on the facts and information given on the three days. rules and condition do change, but to blatently tell someone an "untruth" is more like a used car sales man pitch.
i was thinking of asking the head of recruitment if this is all a mistake, a miss understanding, the guys i spoke to did not have english as a first language, but been advised to just keep out of the spotlight.................
anyone been on interview recently who could confirm or deny what actualy is sold....
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It is quite possible that the head of recruitment doesn’t know that the FOM states “No transition upgrades” Nice chap but pretty clueless about the real issues facing the pilot body. It is also possible that he may have misunderstood the question as English is not his first language either.
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I should bin the FOM being as a source of accurate info for T & Cs for those being interviewed...it is out of date most of the time on the line....still no fuel policy in it for example and how long has that been?
Changes happen despite what it says in the FOM and our contracts to suit EK. Haven't seen one yet that is in our favour or just some cheap trick to hide the fact that we will work harder for less...FTLs a prime example.
Remember the assurances that there would be no DECs until every effort would be made to upgrade those who eligible? So where did 2 DECs come from recently on the 777?
If you get a contract, make sure it is valid in your country of residence (consider taking it to a solicitors to be witnessed). EK can be taken to court in any of the countries they fly to or has assets in...food for thought maybe.
Changes happen despite what it says in the FOM and our contracts to suit EK. Haven't seen one yet that is in our favour or just some cheap trick to hide the fact that we will work harder for less...FTLs a prime example.
Remember the assurances that there would be no DECs until every effort would be made to upgrade those who eligible? So where did 2 DECs come from recently on the 777?
If you get a contract, make sure it is valid in your country of residence (consider taking it to a solicitors to be witnessed). EK can be taken to court in any of the countries they fly to or has assets in...food for thought maybe.
Last edited by Shake; 25th Aug 2005 at 13:41.
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SecurID
Yeah I did ... Now before I get slagged by anyone, I listened to many different views. I went to the interview, Went back to Dubai again without the EK spinmasters, listened to many people I trust who are working for EK ( Who all said ' dont listen to the naysayers from pprune ), I read alot from this forum and I looked at the state of the industry back home in Canada and the answer I got was - EK.
See you soon
Yeah I did ... Now before I get slagged by anyone, I listened to many different views. I went to the interview, Went back to Dubai again without the EK spinmasters, listened to many people I trust who are working for EK ( Who all said ' dont listen to the naysayers from pprune ), I read alot from this forum and I looked at the state of the industry back home in Canada and the answer I got was - EK.
See you soon
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Welcome on board flyboy519
You probably have made the right decision, however, the norm is:
Happy for 1-2 years
Grumble from 2-4 years
Get command sometime, so a little bit happy again
Grumble loudly from 6 years on
8 Years no longer surprised by anything the company does
10 years on you will do anything to get out
15 years, totally lost the plot
You probably have made the right decision, however, the norm is:
Happy for 1-2 years
Grumble from 2-4 years
Get command sometime, so a little bit happy again
Grumble loudly from 6 years on
8 Years no longer surprised by anything the company does
10 years on you will do anything to get out
15 years, totally lost the plot
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Flyboy519
Regardless of the outcome, it sounds like you made a well informed decision that suits you and that is what it is all about.
Flyboy got the right answer at his interview because he asked the right people.
Shwarma's friends got the wrong answer because they were misinformed by someone that should have had the right answer. But that is a long way short of deliberate misinformation and who knows, he (recruitment manager) might actually know more than we do given the company that he keeps. One can hope at least.
Sandkfir is correct in his identification of the problem but it would be inappropriate to tar all of recruitment (not directed at sandkfir)and the information provided just because the manager makes one incorrect (assuming that it is) statement.
All the same, anyone considering joining Emirates must be aware that the contract is rather thin. The contract has been worded the way it has in order to give the company the flexibility to do what it does - make money. I'm not saying that it's right, just stating the facts. Beyond contracted terms (like money, housing, education etc) you need to weigh up the likelihood of you getting what you want out of Emirates based on your own risk management. That way you won't be dissapointed.
Regardless of the outcome, it sounds like you made a well informed decision that suits you and that is what it is all about.
Flyboy got the right answer at his interview because he asked the right people.
Shwarma's friends got the wrong answer because they were misinformed by someone that should have had the right answer. But that is a long way short of deliberate misinformation and who knows, he (recruitment manager) might actually know more than we do given the company that he keeps. One can hope at least.
Sandkfir is correct in his identification of the problem but it would be inappropriate to tar all of recruitment (not directed at sandkfir)and the information provided just because the manager makes one incorrect (assuming that it is) statement.
All the same, anyone considering joining Emirates must be aware that the contract is rather thin. The contract has been worded the way it has in order to give the company the flexibility to do what it does - make money. I'm not saying that it's right, just stating the facts. Beyond contracted terms (like money, housing, education etc) you need to weigh up the likelihood of you getting what you want out of Emirates based on your own risk management. That way you won't be dissapointed.
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That Emirates Add for First Officers- What you need to Know and Ask About
Emirates Offers unparalleled opportunities for ambition pilots to advance their careers:--
You have a minimum of four thousand hours and by industry standards are now quite experienced and probably approaching a command somewhere. Advancement of career is a subjective subject. But you should bear the following in mind.
You have no choice as to what you will fly.
There are no changes of fleet despite what is suggested on emiratesgroupcareer.com website. You will stay where you are put and no one who has asked to change fleet recently has been allowed to do so. There are no established freeze periods on a fleet and no post command freeze periods so you can change fleet afterwards. Claims that such a system exists in Emirates are simply untrue.
There is no seniority in the company, and advancement of your career is wholly at the discretion of management. Your career advancement will depend wholly on what aircraft the commercial department buys and when. Transition upgrades will not be offered and any transition upgrades that may be offered in the next few weeks are another attempt and crisis management, it will not be a long term policy. It remains highly likely your career (sic) will be badly affected by DEC’s.
You will operate your aircraft on the border line of Flight Time Limitation Legality – Always, with little or no rest and no say when you get days off or what trips you do. The preferential bidding system which was excellent simply no longer works. The company has done no research to support its suggestion that close to 90% satisfaction in the top two bid groups. That claim has been held despite the complete change in bid system and current manning levels. It is simply untrue and a 10% satisfaction rate may be more accurate.
The company has established a fatigue monitoring group that contains no pilots at all and its sole task remains to block suggestions that certain pairings are debilitating. Several Hundred Thousand Dirhams was spent investigating fatigue doing ULH flights with DERA and the Emirates Clinic. This report and its findings were simply thrown away. No one has seen it. The doctor that ran the study is not on the fatigue committee as are no other members of the medical community. When you come for interview ask the doctor at your medical if pilots are flying fatigued, you will be shocked ! Many are so fatigued they are off sick.
In Addition To first Class flight operations and training facilities:---
I can not argue the flight training facilities are glossy, but if you ask any pilot in Emirates they will tell you there is no training department, only a checking one.
LOFT is assessed
There is NO Pre-command Training Course
There is no First Officer Development Training
All training courses are being cut back constantly.
Ground school is now self teach on a CD ROM
This Includes Quality Accommodation (including power, water and maintenance):---
You will have No choice where you Live – ever and this will not be at the discretion of Flight Operations. The accommodation department in EK is one of the biggest disgraces here and Flight Operations have no control over them, at best it could be described as a mafia.
Quality is subjective some people have had excellent accommodation others very poor, some have taken there keys and headed straight back to the airport. If its poor in this environment that can very easily lead to marital problems and divorce. I and many others have already been down that road. Ask if that shiny big aircraft is really worth your wife and family. There is no greater issue for your family than accommodation!
If you arrive and don’t like where you live you are stuck the company will not move you.
The accommodation allowance will not buy you what you need unless you’re single.
If you do take the accommodation allowance Power, water and maintenance are not free, you will have to pay for them average cost in summer Dhs 2500, 1500 in winter. If you opt out you will have to pay a 5% government tax on your rental every year.
Most rents are going up at 25% per year if you opt out of the company system, you may never come back in unlike the cabin crew.
The Company is threatening to move all staff to some development called Silicone City, it may be a very long way from your schooling especially if you are looking for a school compatible with your nationality and language. The accommodation department will care not about such problems.
Comprehensive Medical Insurance:--
Currently very good, local management have stayed away from medical. I have been told that benefits for family are being reviewed though and it is likely your family will soon have to go outside the company system and claim back.
Quality End Of Service Benefits:---
We have a provident scheme which performs very poorly against even cash. The last two years despite a substantial increase in the stock market has managed little above 5%, or 2.5% PA. NO pilots are allowed to be involved in the scheme and there is no association so that we could consider changing providers. End of Service Benefits is a rudderless ship only providing income for the fund Managers. IT will not currently provide much to your retirement.
Schooling :--
Very good on the whole, but as above if your choice of school is not close by tough the accommodation department will not take this into account. This is very important if your not going to an English speaking school.
Generous Staff Travel Provisions :--
As a first officer you can only travel business with your wife, your kids can not travel with you in that cabin. They have to travel economy so you must travel economy too. As a captain your kids can travel in the business cabin but not in First.
You get one ID 90 equivalent for your parents/parents in law only on EK. The other ticket is a pseudo firm called a CAT C which you can not use as there is rarely any availability for this type of ticket on the staff travel system.
Our staff fares are now so expensive it is cheaper to fly with other carriers or firm on some occasions.
Other little gems they wont be telling you at your interview:-
Its very unlikely there will be any A340-600 arriving in DXB, they are not taking the options and are trying to cancel the 12 firm orders.
The A350 order will be a direct replacement for the A330, so little in the way of expansion.
If you do decide to come take the B777 only.
We are canceling new announced routes all the time, SFO cancelled, Toronto cancelled, Geneva cancelled cancelled. We are opening new routes as well but the pace of expansion is slowing.
The likes of GN are going to say I have only presented one side of the story and I will agree with him. You will hear the other point of view at your interview in the glossy magazines they show you and video. The company will tell you everything to make you feel good about the move. I am presenting the reality they won’t tell you about.
When you have heard both sides you can make an informed choice, but you need to know what the problems are as well to make that choice. Speak to the Captain and FO on the flight on the way over, Fly EK if you can, speak to as many guys already here as you can and ask the HR team about the above, don’t be shy. It’s not worth your family to keep quiet and just get the job.
You have a minimum of four thousand hours and by industry standards are now quite experienced and probably approaching a command somewhere. Advancement of career is a subjective subject. But you should bear the following in mind.
You have no choice as to what you will fly.
There are no changes of fleet despite what is suggested on emiratesgroupcareer.com website. You will stay where you are put and no one who has asked to change fleet recently has been allowed to do so. There are no established freeze periods on a fleet and no post command freeze periods so you can change fleet afterwards. Claims that such a system exists in Emirates are simply untrue.
There is no seniority in the company, and advancement of your career is wholly at the discretion of management. Your career advancement will depend wholly on what aircraft the commercial department buys and when. Transition upgrades will not be offered and any transition upgrades that may be offered in the next few weeks are another attempt and crisis management, it will not be a long term policy. It remains highly likely your career (sic) will be badly affected by DEC’s.
You will operate your aircraft on the border line of Flight Time Limitation Legality – Always, with little or no rest and no say when you get days off or what trips you do. The preferential bidding system which was excellent simply no longer works. The company has done no research to support its suggestion that close to 90% satisfaction in the top two bid groups. That claim has been held despite the complete change in bid system and current manning levels. It is simply untrue and a 10% satisfaction rate may be more accurate.
The company has established a fatigue monitoring group that contains no pilots at all and its sole task remains to block suggestions that certain pairings are debilitating. Several Hundred Thousand Dirhams was spent investigating fatigue doing ULH flights with DERA and the Emirates Clinic. This report and its findings were simply thrown away. No one has seen it. The doctor that ran the study is not on the fatigue committee as are no other members of the medical community. When you come for interview ask the doctor at your medical if pilots are flying fatigued, you will be shocked ! Many are so fatigued they are off sick.
In Addition To first Class flight operations and training facilities:---
I can not argue the flight training facilities are glossy, but if you ask any pilot in Emirates they will tell you there is no training department, only a checking one.
LOFT is assessed
There is NO Pre-command Training Course
There is no First Officer Development Training
All training courses are being cut back constantly.
Ground school is now self teach on a CD ROM
This Includes Quality Accommodation (including power, water and maintenance):---
You will have No choice where you Live – ever and this will not be at the discretion of Flight Operations. The accommodation department in EK is one of the biggest disgraces here and Flight Operations have no control over them, at best it could be described as a mafia.
Quality is subjective some people have had excellent accommodation others very poor, some have taken there keys and headed straight back to the airport. If its poor in this environment that can very easily lead to marital problems and divorce. I and many others have already been down that road. Ask if that shiny big aircraft is really worth your wife and family. There is no greater issue for your family than accommodation!
If you arrive and don’t like where you live you are stuck the company will not move you.
The accommodation allowance will not buy you what you need unless you’re single.
If you do take the accommodation allowance Power, water and maintenance are not free, you will have to pay for them average cost in summer Dhs 2500, 1500 in winter. If you opt out you will have to pay a 5% government tax on your rental every year.
Most rents are going up at 25% per year if you opt out of the company system, you may never come back in unlike the cabin crew.
The Company is threatening to move all staff to some development called Silicone City, it may be a very long way from your schooling especially if you are looking for a school compatible with your nationality and language. The accommodation department will care not about such problems.
Comprehensive Medical Insurance:--
Currently very good, local management have stayed away from medical. I have been told that benefits for family are being reviewed though and it is likely your family will soon have to go outside the company system and claim back.
Quality End Of Service Benefits:---
We have a provident scheme which performs very poorly against even cash. The last two years despite a substantial increase in the stock market has managed little above 5%, or 2.5% PA. NO pilots are allowed to be involved in the scheme and there is no association so that we could consider changing providers. End of Service Benefits is a rudderless ship only providing income for the fund Managers. IT will not currently provide much to your retirement.
Schooling :--
Very good on the whole, but as above if your choice of school is not close by tough the accommodation department will not take this into account. This is very important if your not going to an English speaking school.
Generous Staff Travel Provisions :--
As a first officer you can only travel business with your wife, your kids can not travel with you in that cabin. They have to travel economy so you must travel economy too. As a captain your kids can travel in the business cabin but not in First.
You get one ID 90 equivalent for your parents/parents in law only on EK. The other ticket is a pseudo firm called a CAT C which you can not use as there is rarely any availability for this type of ticket on the staff travel system.
Our staff fares are now so expensive it is cheaper to fly with other carriers or firm on some occasions.
Other little gems they wont be telling you at your interview:-
Its very unlikely there will be any A340-600 arriving in DXB, they are not taking the options and are trying to cancel the 12 firm orders.
The A350 order will be a direct replacement for the A330, so little in the way of expansion.
If you do decide to come take the B777 only.
We are canceling new announced routes all the time, SFO cancelled, Toronto cancelled, Geneva cancelled cancelled. We are opening new routes as well but the pace of expansion is slowing.
The likes of GN are going to say I have only presented one side of the story and I will agree with him. You will hear the other point of view at your interview in the glossy magazines they show you and video. The company will tell you everything to make you feel good about the move. I am presenting the reality they won’t tell you about.
When you have heard both sides you can make an informed choice, but you need to know what the problems are as well to make that choice. Speak to the Captain and FO on the flight on the way over, Fly EK if you can, speak to as many guys already here as you can and ask the HR team about the above, don’t be shy. It’s not worth your family to keep quiet and just get the job.
Last edited by warofthewords; 7th Sep 2005 at 06:37.
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AMEN brother!!!
You are spot on!!
I will not say that everything is bad here at EK, but those topics listed above will not be addressed after you sign the dotted line on the contract.
Beware of the glam and glitz.
It's nice and shiny on the outside, but carefull of scratching too hard beneath the surface.
Much like Dubai.
You are spot on!!
I will not say that everything is bad here at EK, but those topics listed above will not be addressed after you sign the dotted line on the contract.
Beware of the glam and glitz.
It's nice and shiny on the outside, but carefull of scratching too hard beneath the surface.
Much like Dubai.
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Sad to say it, but everything that Warofthewords has written is correct, I just wish it wasn't. As many people have said before, this could have been the best job in the business.
