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Alpha Aviation Academy

Old 25th Jun 2012, 09:23
  #401 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: APU exhaust ;)
Posts: 39
Captain Dieter Harms


Professionalism. Please.

The only way to differentiate a learned man from others is by manner of his professionalism. Please note that ‘learned’ used in this context is referring to wisdom rather than the quantity of knowledge he possesses.

For all who do not know Captain Dieter Harms:

Captain Dieter Harms, born in 1940, started his career over 48 years ago with Lufthansa German Airlines.

He flew a wide variety of aircraft and retired by late 2005 as a Captain on B 747- 400.

He was the Head of the Lufthansa Pilot School in Bremen and Phoenix, AZ from 1980 until 1990, thereafter the Head of Training of Lufthansa German Airlines and from 1997 until his retirement the CEO of the newly founded Lufthansa Flight Training Company.

Captain Harms was involved with the application of Competency Based Training and the development of the MPL right from the beginning and served as an advisor to the ICAO FCLT-Panel from 2000 to 2005 and to the CJAA during the transposition of the MPL from Annex 1 into JAR-FCL in 2006.

Besides running his consulting firm he works for IATA since 2007 as a Senior Advisor in the IATA Training and Qualification Initiative (ITQI) and supported CAAC on the implementation of MPL in China between 2008 and 2011.

Since 2009 Capt. Harms serves as a member on the EASA MPL Advisory Board.

Now that is a learned man...

BTW, it is Dieter, not Deiter.

Reference: Safety in Aviation Asia :: Safety in Aviation ASIA

This was in response to RP-C000's advice to search from scratch.

Last edited by risk; 25th Jun 2012 at 09:25.
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Old 25th Jun 2012, 10:46
  #402 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 177
thanks for the typo correction...

Last edited by RP-C000; 25th Jun 2012 at 10:46.
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Old 25th Jun 2012, 17:18
  #403 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Age: 31
Posts: 250

Hi there guys...

Thanks Traveller93 for the info, sounds great that IATA/ICAO are looking after MPL...

BTW, The IATA Global MPL Tracker Report is dated on the 9th of May 2012...by that time, the 2nd batch were done/doing their Base Training & it seems that only 3 of them were done that time let's wait for the updated version

Hi Risk...long time
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Old 26th Jun 2012, 04:30
  #404 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: APU exhaust ;)
Posts: 39
Yes, professionalism

Not an issue RP-C000.

Hi Marlim, indeed it has been a long time... still watching this unfold & hopefully I will react to it positively.

Taras B,

I can, so can others see that you obviously feel bitter about what has happened to you and/or your friends.

…but professionalism is something else. So let me break it down for you:

My post about professionalism was directed to RP-C000, which I have mentioned in my post, and RP-C000 has PROFESSIONALLY responded by not fighting back, but rather picking something positive. He thanked me for correcting him, rather than bickering with me nonsensically.

Secondly, if you want someone to hear you out, then you need to CALM THE **** DOWN! Yes, you read it right. Please, for your own sake, calm down. Instead of jumping like an excited bunny at every chance you get, present your FACTS in a professional manner at the right forums. Do amass support here by putting forward your views, which BTW have been understood & even agreed to, but do NOT destroy your own image if you want respect at the said forums. Since you asked me to imagine, then I must assume that you too have an imagination….so now you imagine how everyone will look at you when they find out that you are Taras B? They (the people whom you will be complaining to), will instantly look at you in a different light…

So once again, be calm, collected, calculated & PROFESSIONAL, because you are representing a group of people who have been wronged, but they too are PROFESSIONALS… being a pilot is one very respectable responsibility. Therefore, respect it!

With you acting like this, what is the difference between you & the people who wronged you? They were not professionals & this way neither are you.

Thirdly, I have NOT asked for peace, I have asked for professionalism. I have repeated this work so many times, that even I am getting tired of reading it.

…and finally to you last two lines. EXACTLY!!!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN!!! When you do something, do it professionally, so you get respect!

Difference between a normal thief & a professional thief: one is someone you would smack in the head, the other is someone you would stay away from even though their professions are the same. Simply because one is a professional, you respect him…. For God’s sake, you go watch Ocean 11 & say WOW!

Jesus, well there is another good example. DID HE EVER LOSE TEMPER & START BICKERING???? NO!! He managed to solve every problem via PEACE!

Right, anyway, all others who are reading this, please read everything ON BOTH SIDES before you decide. No one will help you, but YOU!
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Old 26th Jun 2012, 04:47
  #405 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,788
He managed to solve every problem via PEACE!

because he knows he doesn't have a valid argument, he/she is just trying to sell a faulty product, MPL by design was not intended/designed for self-sponsored ab-initio pilots, it was designed for those already employed by an airline as a cadet pilot to obtain a flight deck position and thereafter obtain a full license upon meeting the aeronautical requirements...
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Old 26th Jun 2012, 05:33
  #406 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: universe
Posts: 565
How many time do you have to tell people the MPL is a junk licence before they listen? IB is correct it's not designed for self sponsorship.
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Old 26th Jun 2012, 05:33
  #407 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: APU exhaust ;)
Posts: 39

Never disputed that FACT, never will.

My point is very simple, fight for what is right, but in the right manner. Not by mere explosive responses to each other. I am in no manner referring or have referred to the way MPL is run anywhere.
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Old 26th Jun 2012, 09:30
  #408 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 30k
Posts: 71
Thumbs up

@ risk.....excellent post!
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Old 27th Jun 2012, 04:10
  #409 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SEAsia
Posts: 145

Your enthusiasm about the MPL should be contagious, as that licence is a tremendous progress in pilot training if done properly and in accordance with the very stringent rules set at its implementation.

Having said that, what is being discussed in these forums doesn't have anything to do with the MPL merits, and there are plenty, but rather with the way Clark Aviation missed an unique golden opportunity to lead the very lucrative pilot training market. And they did it by their own fault, without any sabotage from outside or competition. They were the second school to offer the MPL and the first on the A320 aircraft. THERE WERE NO OTHERS!!!! The market was there to the take!!

But they failed and the reasons for that failure have been scalped here ad eternum....

The tragedy is that, their failure caused immense suffering to just about all the young aspiring pilots that believed in their propaganda and sweet talk. They believed in the promises of the original Capt. CEO, his plans to ensure jobs in various countries in Asia and South Asia. They believed that, upon completing the ground school training there would be enough AAG aircraft to do the core flying. Nothing of this happened in the time frame set in the MPL ICAO program.

Visitors to the Clark Aviation Academy were given tours of the classrooms, accommodation and recreation facilities. Impressive and with a professional look which inspired confidence.... This was topped with a visit to "their" simulator. Yes, they were saying that the A320 FFS was theirs.

With all this, self sponsored cadets enrolled in numbers having been assured of employment upon completion of their MPL training after +/- 18 months (they were advertising 12 months). Don't forget that all this was happening in 2007 and 2008.

The rest is a known unfinished story. Unfinished because there are still qualified A320 MPL pilots formed at Clark Aviation that don't have an airline to work for. Others, although passing all the different stages of the course, decided to drop out because they could not see an end to it and no future.

How many Directors, Managers, FOTs, Instructors, etc. have gone through Clark Aviation since its inception in 2007? Did any of them resolve any problems or cared about the cadets that had paid hard cash for a dream?

It is true that most have found their way into some airlines, after an inordinate excessive time, but what about the ones that are forever in limbo?

Is anybody really working to bring this tragedy to an end? If Clark Aviation/AAG cannot find them an airline to do the needed 1500 hours line training to free the frozen ATPL, then the just way to resolve the remaining issues is to reimburse what they paid and some compensation for the unexpected expenses incurred over the years while waiting for a job. This compensation will never pay for all the losses! If you're not working there is no income but only expenses.

Enough of that.

Coming back to my post and the excel table, have a look at the data provided for the Sharjah and Clark set-ups.

Just as an example, are the 18 month figures for the duration of the MPL training accurate? Did a single MPLr complete his/her training in that time span?

These numbers were supplied to IATA/ICAO by someone. Lets see if they can justify them..... and there are others. For an appropriate time.

It is said that AAG has a new management and that they are doing a good job. Managers are supposed to find ways to resolve problems and there is no problem without a solution. What are they waiting for to resolve the remaining old issues?

Resolve them justly, turn the page, and then they can dedicate all their energy to make the business a success. It will be harder but its the price to pay for the past wrong doings.

Malirm. Everybody can see how happy and fulfilled you are doing your line training. Don't you think those who are being denied that pleasure also deserve to experiment that feeling?

Happy flying and, keep the blue side up!!!

malirm says

Hi there guys...

Thanks Traveller93 for the info, sounds great that IATA/ICAO are looking after MPL...

BTW, The IATA Global MPL Tracker Report is dated on the 9th of May 2012...by that time, the 2nd batch were done/doing their Base Training & it seems that only 3 of them were done that time let's wait for the updated version

Last edited by traveller93; 27th Jun 2012 at 04:17.
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Old 1st Jul 2012, 06:26
  #410 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: APU exhaust ;)
Posts: 39
MPL... the Alpha/Clark way

Firstly, thanks google for the appreciation.

Secondly, a VERY BIG THANK YOU Taras B, for the professional response. This is what I meant... if you and others have been wronged, then let us all in the community stand up to it and as grown-ups bring it to light.

I am sure that there still are major players out there who will be more than happy to hear of any failings on behalf of organizations carrying the MPL flag. This is a crucial stage for the MPL as it is gaining momentum & the last thing ICAO would want, is any mishap. traveller93, has put up a good post too, and I do believe that any GOOD organization should revisit their mistakes and correct them. Of course from ‘outside PPRuNe’ perspective, it is a different world & organizations can’t just SAY sorry like humans. There are huge repercussions that they need to consider. Therefore an amiable solution must be sought, which will come through forums like APATS.

I would also request other community members to side with what is RIGHT. A lot of people are fighting with or against the MPL…. But the point is not MPL, it is HOW the MPL is run. ALL of us have financial issues & it is not just easy to give about 150,000 USD (including extras J) and then end up with nothing.

…with regards to MPL and anyone/everyone out there who is against it, well all I can say is that it is something released by ICAO after MAJOR study and research… and it will stay. At the end of the day, airlines run the aviation business and if they start accepting, (which they are) then there is no turning back. Plus up until now, the feedback has been positive about MPL grads.

Anyhow, Taras B, traveller93, I do stand by your side (if you were good students with bad luck)… and to RP-C000, it is surely good to see progress for the future, but a little past-fixing would go a long way towards your goal.

Last edited by risk; 1st Jul 2012 at 11:26. Reason: Involuntary repeat of some lines.
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Old 1st Jul 2012, 08:48
  #411 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UAE
Posts: 95
Thanks Risk for your support and understanding. Imagine how one would feel to be inducted into the MPL with very low compass score and then being issued a letter that you have been successful in your pilot assessment test. The confidential score were only handed down to the cadet after a year when he had finished his ground school and was about to fly to Australia for his core flying. The cadet was entrenched just after 32 hours of flying as pedicted by his compass scores. Does he not deserve a full refund. No amount of money can compensate loss of his precious two years of his life for the mistakes made by Alpha. No cadet with score 12 out of 35 can fly. To suffer for the mistake made by Alpha is unethical.
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Old 1st Jul 2012, 09:03
  #412 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Age: 31
Posts: 250

Hi there...

Just to confirm that I read & understood what you said Traveller93 & ofcourse it isn't about the MPL Merits...it is how the training is Conducted & implemented...etc.

About my last post, I just wanted to raise that point before anybody else raise it & we would look like "outdated" I didn't have OTHER intentions...

I know the feeling of not being there & flying, I experienced it for a while around here & there...I also met some of the cadets at Clark while doing the Core Flying with them...but now...I also know some of their story(s) aswell...this will just make me more into pushing AAG for a clarification & justice...as far as I could...but keeping what Risk has mentioned... "Professionalism"

BTW Traveller93, I have been released from line training 2 months ago...I'm an F/O
malirm is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2012, 18:39
  #413 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chennai
Age: 29
Posts: 9
Arrow Alfa Aviation Academy

Hello Marlim, Congrats on F/O

I have been Planning to Join this Academy (Alfa Aviation academy)Alfaacademy.net,

Can you Say whether its Good Flying School?How about Living?

I had Conversation with Skies Consultancy about Professional Pilot Program which Includes CPL + Type rating and Line Training in A320..The Package was Around $136000 which i will Complete my CPL in Europe(Greece) in this Academy and then i will be Transferred to Dubai For type Ratings n line Training.I have a doubt is it good to join this Program?
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 02:09
  #414 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 177
njbhansali12 (Alfa Aviation academy)Alfaacademy.net, is different from ALPHA AVIATION GROUP (AAG)

AAG in UAE runs the MPL course for Air Arabia, pls see info below.

Multi-crew Pilot Licence (MPL) | Alpha Aviation Group

RP-C000 is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2012, 03:27
  #415 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SEAsia
Posts: 145
I've just been to the AAG website and had a look at their "Cadet Info Pack".
A very interesting "info pack" indeed.... with an appealing sales pitch and it begins with a true statement:

"The job of an airline pilot is probably one of the most prestigious, glamorous and exciting in the world.

It is a highly rated and adventurous career choice allowing you the opportunity to travel around the world to places most people only dream about. It is a challenging, dynamic and demanding job but undoubtedly very rewarding."

Followed by this

"Becoming an airline pilot is a dream many young people have."

and this

"For most it remains just that; but for you it could be a reality."

(Red colour requires maximum attention!!)

Yes, all these statements are true, but all those considering to spend their money at AAG, should think carefully about the strong chance that their dream might turn into a REAL nightmare. As explained in my last post.

If the past experience of many is not taken into consideration and the candidates still enroll into the AAG MPL, make sure that a one sided contract is not signed. Have written guarantees that the published course program is followed in the advertised time span, that there will be a secure line training with an established airline and, most importantly, a guarantee that, failing the previous items, AAG will provide a CPL/IR/TR.

This is what saved some current AAG MPL trained pilots from a life of misery.

Others are still suffering after spending tens of thousands (into the hundreds) of USD for the dream that turned into a nightmare.

Until those wrongs are made right......

Last edited by traveller93; 4th Jul 2012 at 02:02.
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 03:54
  #416 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SEAsia
Posts: 145
A little more reading into the AAG website brings to light some things that many wish were true.

Why Choose AAG | Alpha Aviation Group

"Why Choose AAG

We have a highly successful track record placing cadets into airlines after their training is completed, either with our airline partners in our operating countries or further afield."

Values | Alpha Aviation Group


Focusing on honesty and fairness, we strive to earn the trust of our stakeholders, deliver on our promises to our clients and cadets, and maintain the highest professional and ethical standards"

Something is not right, but can be fixed.

It's just a matter of wanting to do it.

Last edited by traveller93; 3rd Jul 2012 at 04:19.
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 07:12
  #417 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 35
Nowadays, as international education and training scams become more and more commonplace, it is critical that you research exhaustively companies to whom you will trust your money and your future. If you have any doubt, don't sign on the dotted line. If you ask many opinions and become truly informed of all the risks and benefits of your final decision, then you are no longer blindly following a 'dream'... then you have chosen wisely.

Last edited by Taras B; 15th Dec 2012 at 22:37.
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 13:26
  #418 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SEAsia
Posts: 145
A report by the Advertising Standards Authority.

The world is full of crooks.

ASA Adjudication on The Pilot Training College - Advertising Standards Authority

The Irish authorities are looking into this mess.


Another PPRuNe thread


Last edited by traveller93; 4th Jul 2012 at 13:36.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 02:46
  #419 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: earth
Posts: 272
That is interesting reading about PTC. What I did not realise or thought that training providers would go so low as to use their business as a ponzi scheme.
I thought with most it was complete mismanagement and incompetence, maybe there can be more sinister money making ideas, where in a country with very few authoritys that would chase this down. Run a perfect pilot training ponzi scheme, 100 thousand dollars per student and it continues for about 5 to 10 years and then disappears......

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Old 5th Jul 2012, 14:08
  #420 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jeddah
Age: 35
Posts: 3
Need your advice

Hi guys,

I am glad to ask you one question as I found that most of you had an idea or studied with Alpha Aviation Academy. I am thinking to choose either ways: 1- Studying with Alpha Aviation Academy ( MPL programme) or 2- Studying with Emirates Aviation College ( Pilot Training Programme for ATPL, JAA in Dubai & Portugal and it costs 545,000 ADE). I have an assessment for both alpha and Emirates next week. Please help me to determine which one would be best for me. As I know about Alpha that I can get 1500 hours garuanteed, whereas just 230 hours in single and multi engine light aircraft with Emirates college.

I'm looking for your answers and suggestions friends ASAP.

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