DEC's at EK

[filejw]

While I haven't finished the process so far the answer to your questions is none, ALPA is a paper tiger and no.

[IXNAT]

No special deals have been offered, other than what is posted. Starting pay is the same for all, including if one was current and qualed on the 777. No difference. Retired pilots from Delta have lost all if not most of their retirements and will soon lose it all as Delta terminates their pension plan. Left over lump sums will be left intact if a job can be found. Very few active Delta guys, maybe a handful are leaving Delta to go to EK. Cannot speak of other legacy carriers. Probably job security for a few years is the enticement. Conditions, except for living in DUbai, seem very similar to what many have done in the past. I know I have flown a thousand hours for the past four or five years, 900 seems like a break. Most don't have kids in the house, most were probably former military and have lived in different places around the world in base housing.

Hope this helps.

[Riker]

Originally Posted by IXNAT

No special deals have been offered, other than what is posted. Starting pay is the same for all, including if one was current and qualed on the 777. No difference. Retired pilots from Delta have lost all if not most of their retirements and will soon lose it all as Delta terminates their pension plan. Left over lump sums will be left intact if a job can be found. Very few active Delta guys, maybe a handful are leaving Delta to go to EK. Cannot speak of other legacy carriers. Probably job security for a few years is the enticement. Conditions, except for living in DUbai, seem very similar to what many have done in the past. I know I have flown a thousand hours for the past four or five years, 900 seems like a break. Most don't have kids in the house, most were probably former military and have lived in different places around the world in base housing.

Hope this helps.

I am glad to hear it works for you. However, I have heard about younger pilots who probably have 15 years left until retirement who are quitting US legacy carriers for EK slots. Sure, we all know that the US legacy carriers have been on the brink of extinction for awhile, but they will rebuild. Nobody expects Delta or UAL to just disappear. My concern is that, based on UK friends who are at EK now, the Yank pilots are given an impression that EK is the long-term career solution they have been looking for.

What sort of spin job have the EK managers done to attract younger US legacy pilots away from their current positions? If you read these posts on PPrune(obviously with a grain of salt - there is a bit of drama in most posts), you will note the points related to excessive flight hours, lack of days off, racial bias, seemingly changing terms and endless promises that are not kept. No airline in perfect - but, EK is an airline where pilots have few rights. Things can change on a dime. Again, I can't understand why a pilot at United or Northwest would give up a career (with 15 years to go) and move to EK. Sure, you could argue that United and Northwest could eventually liquidate - but that really is highly unlikely. Any tax-free benefits you gain in Dubai and cancelled out by the stratospheric inflation rates - it ain't as great as it sounds.... It's a gamble and I hope that it pays out for them in the long run.

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by Riker

However, I have heard about younger pilots who probably have 15 years left until retirement who are quitting US legacy carriers for EK slots.
.

I suppose anything is possible these days, but I'd like to see actual documentation of just how many are actually doing that.

[filejw]

To give you an idea of age,in my group of four it was 3 mid forty's and one mid fifty's. The older guy is the only one with a retirement from at US carrier...

[Yossarian]

Well, with the likes of Captain America, or BM, publishing such glowing articles about how he left his airline to join one where he is treated like a VP and gets to stay on the "concierge floor", who could possibly stay away?

Maybe, as they say, bullspit does baffle brains.

[EK Pilot]

EK is an airline where pilots have few rights

Sorry, but you are wrong. EK is an airline where pilots have NO rights.

There is no recourse, there is no avenue to challenge policy changes, there is no ear to hear when you have something to say, there is no one there for you. At the end of the day you are on your own.

The happiest amongst our group have embraced that and know it to be true, they then get on with their lives and take from EK what they can. Others, me included, think that the employer has a duty of care. Naive maybe, but the employer/employee relationship should be symbiotic. EK and Dubai inc. are just running the corporations on greed and the values that once existed no longer hold true. Maybe that is the same the world over now and I empaphise with those that have sufferred losses of pensions etc. But you cannot compare a US legacy carrier with the the fastest growing and one one of the most profitable airlines in the world.

With that in mind, come. Come and join us, join in the fun, swell the ranks and let the managers know that they have done their best and attracted more quality candidates. But never let those same managers know that they enticed you with promises and gold. They will deny everything and say that it was ultimately your choice to be here.

But also know that everything that has been written here is true. Somewhat emotionally charged, but nevertheles true. Never before has so much information been made available to you to make a choice to leave home and set up in the UAE. You have everything at your fingertips to make an informed decision. Remember, though, that once you leave home it is very hard to go back.

[IXNAT]

I agree to the wonderment of why someone at the US legacies would leave with 10 plus years left. Enough time to rebuild some retirement and have a known quality of life. But I do have to say, that there have been no promises made other than: here is the position you will fly, you will fly around 900plus hours, we will provide housing etc, etc etc. No great promises, no out of country basing, no promis of future great riches, basically, "here's the contract, take it or leave it". And I am sure a lot of the dealings with the company will be that way. But here in the US there has been incredible tv shows, front page newspaper articles, and magazine articles on Dubai.

[filejw]

I second what INXAT said. No gold offered, in fact it sounds like lots of hard work..But EK PILOT"duty of care"?Any pilot coming from the US will still be laughing 24hrs after he reads that statement.The only thing we have seen is GREED and we are used to it...

[Riker]

Originally Posted by bafanguy

I suppose anything is possible these days, but I'd like to see actual documentation of just how many are actually doing that.

A good friend is a flight instructor in the Orlando area. He spoke directly with two pilots in their 40s from a major US airline who are leaving for Emirates - each with roughly 15 years remaining. Packing up the entire family (kids still in school) and taking them to Dubai... Why not just leave for a stable US airline like Southwest or Air Tran? Why leave the country and union protection? Again, the tax-free salary offer is negated by super-inflation. I wish them well but it surprises me that people would make this decision - but that is just my opinion.

[remlap]

Why a Younger DEC Would Consider EK

I am a 47 year old Captain at DAL who is seriously considering flying overseas. Will it be EK, I don't know. FedEx will not interview active pilots at legacy carriers. Rumor has it, SWA won't interview legacy carrier captains because we do not share the "cowboy" culture they encourage for flight operations.

I don't harbor any illusions that EK will be perfect. Far from it. I think the rostering is onerous and the pay substandard. At this time I plan to stay at my carrier until I am 50. Upon reaching 50 I will be fully eligible for whatever remains of my retirement.

I don't think the downward spiral for the legacy carriers has come to an end. My union is a union in name only. While true the Company can't just take, they get whatever they ask for. I would be surprised if I finish my flying career for DAL. The outlook for my airline is simply not that good. One of the legacy carriers will have to shut their doors due to overcapacity. It is just a matter of time.

I hear all these posts about inflation and going to the web it seems that prices in the UAE are not significanly more than I currently pay for products and services in the US. The fact that the income would be tax free is very attractive. Also, by moving overseas into paid housing, it allows me to sell my home and invest the proceeds in an investment vehicle that will net greater returns.

By my company terminating my pension it has removed any incentive to stay. My services are available to the highest bidder.

[Riker]

Originally Posted by remlap

I am a 47 year old Captain at DAL who is seriously considering flying overseas. Will it be EK, I don't know. I don't harbor any illusions that EK will be perfect. Far from it. I think the rostering is onerous and the pay substandard. At this time I plan to stay at my carrier until I am 50. Upon reaching 50 I will be fully eligible for whatever remains of my retirement.

I don't think the downward spiral for the legacy carriers has come to an end. My union is a union in name only. While true the Company can't just take, they get whatever they ask for. I would be surprised if I finish my flying career for DAL. The outlook for my airline is simply not that good. One of the legacy carriers will have to shut their doors due to overcapacity. It is just a matter of time.

I hear all these posts about inflation and going to the web it seems that prices in the UAE are not significanly more than I currently pay for products and services in the US. The fact that the income would be tax free is very attractive. Also, by moving overseas into paid housing, it allows me to sell my home and invest the proceeds in an investment vehicle that will net greater returns.

By my company terminating my pension it has removed any incentive to stay. My services are available to the highest bidder.

Remlap,

I appreciate what you are saying. I guess I have heard so much about these "road shows" and I have heard so many people talk about how EK has not lived up to its agreements, etc. that I am somewhat skeptical about any offer they provide. Everyone knows EK is desparate to hire pilots for two reasons: 1) fleet growth and 2) attrition rates. I have talked to former EK 777 pilots who returned to the UK to fly for Easyjet - and it was not due to a dislike of warm weather.

At the end of the day, it is your decision. But I would just caution US pilots to enter these agreements with their eyes WIDE open. Seek multiple opinions first - including those from existing EK pilots. Perhaps the Delta pilots could seek out some EK pilots at JFK and ask questions directly (just a thought) - EK serves JFK twice daily from Dubai. Always VERIFY EK's own claims and realize that you are no longer protected by US labor laws (or union protection). Trust but verify...

Remlap, I have heard good things about Singapore Cargo. Although Singapore might not be as appealing from a living standpoint, I have heard that they don't change contract terms on you. Plus, you would probably fly back to the States more often than you would with EK. Good luck!

[Yossarian]

filejw has hit the nail on the head. Dxb is built on GREED! Every aspect of life in the sandbox shows this to be true. The powers that be saw that oil in Dxb would not last forever and decided wisely to diversify. Tourism seemed like a good option with mass development and when that proved able to produce massive dividends, everyone hopped on the bandwagon. Now we sit in a city with vastly overpriced housing, hotels, amenities.... Transport links over-stretched, basic resources like power and water at the limit and more growth forecast.

Who is going to come up with the next scheme to "attract" investors? It would be a good start if initial grand plans like the Palm were produced. So far all we have is grand promises, cheap, self-destructive housing and traffic jams.

Dxb must be one of the most selfish cities I have ever experienced. Try running a business or failing that, try driving on the roads. It is all about ME. Noone gives a spit for anyone else; more so than most places I have ever seen.

This place is busy strangling the golden goose. If they are not careful they will soon have the most expensive, abandoned, man made object visible from space.

[ironbutt57]

Well guys, do the American newbies a big huge favor..pls...My personal history was...**** on by ALPA as a "commuter dog" early 80's hired as a CO scab in 1983...chickened out and sent them a "no thanks letter" my colleagues who did show up are "forgiven 777 capts ALPA members" now....got hired by another "legacy carrier in 1987...who promptly struck in support of the very machinists who gave us pencil-whipped pieces of crap to fly...on probation...out the door...my classmates who went to work by instruction of our local ALPA turned up on the ....u guessed it...master scab list....the next APLA carrier furloughed me out of sim...I came to the Gulf and never looked back......so..the moral of the story is..these guys have no idea what expat flying is about..so educate as opposed to ostracize...they do understand solidarity, or else they wouldn't be here..think about it...nobody can afford to play the "nationality game" here give 'em a break...ok???

[helen-damnation]

The info I have is that the US roadshows are getting people who are already on the EK lists.
In other words, there are few new people turning up.
Not as much interest as the company had hoped.
The problem is not the DEC's, it's the management.

[ironbutt57]

Figured that....anyway....whatever attracts the "yanks" has previously attracted others..yes??? Let the chips fall where they may...what goes around comes around...

[theidler]

Heard that there's a bunch of guys at EK, best described as a large minority or maybe a small majority, who reckon that the only way of sorting out their problems is to let the community at large know whats going on.

Searches on this forum show that in the last few years EK has messed with salary structure, seniority lists and work schedules with zero consultation. Take it or leave it. Not to mention rampant inflation in Dubai, carnage on the roads and a legal system that amounts to guilty until proven innocent.

Don't suppose that anyone joining EK as a DEC would be considered to be crossing lines drawn in the sand.

Or would they?

[ironbutt57]

Well put....who"s drawing the line....they will not convince those already living the "gulf experience" and that's who EK is recruiting in earnest....cant rule out the possiblility myself....convince me....

[ironbutt57]

So if they are so keen to recruit pilots, why dont they seek out folks already here and recruit them....or are they afraid of rejection???

[theidler]

ib57

Reckon you could cross the line. But why would you want to?

Like moving from the Bronx to the Lower East Side, much the same problems, almost the same place.