VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)
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Yeah, thatīs really quite strange with stereovision. You get groundet for nothing. untill the doc told me, i didnīt even knew it. played tennis, football abd had no issues with it.
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Waiting period after retinal surgery
I would like to know the waiting period after a successful retinal surgey for JAA, UK CAA, FAA, AUS CASA, NZ CAA and Hong Kong CAD (laser surgery) to seal the retinal tear. The retina is not yet detached.Thanks!
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I failed the Beyne at Gatwick today. And the HW but I expected to fail that as I've taken it at City previously. Oh well, at least I'm between GBP30-60k richer! Kind of 
A couple of observations that might help anyone going for a test in the future:
The Beyne was not conducted exactly as 2close said above, instead of using a mirror I sat 5m from it directly in a line. The room was nearly dark but not pitch black. I was allowed a few minutes to aclimatise to the dark, but certainly not 15 mins. They didn't show me the lights before the test, but I was told the five colours (Red, Green, White, Orange, Blue.) She emphasised that the white is a dirty colour, like a light bulb, not pure/bright white.
For the HW I sat 6m from it, the room was lit. The colours (Red, Green, White) were demostrated before starting. Otherwise proceedure was as done at City.
The only feedback I got was "you've made quite a few mistakes on both tests", they don't give exact results out. But I have to say overall they were very professional and kind, the woman who did the test seemed almost more annoyed/upset for me failing than I was myself.
She did say that although don't usually let people take the same tests again, I would be welcome to have another go if/when the new test (in development with City) comes into effect. Benwizz re your question on an earlier post I hope this helps a bit.
Given the "severity" of my test fails, both today and at City previously, I don't think I'm going to see out further Beyne tests in Europe. So its the end of the line for me and Class 1, ATPL.
The very best of luck to anyone still going for it themselves.
Happy landings
ES
A couple of observations that might help anyone going for a test in the future:
The Beyne was not conducted exactly as 2close said above, instead of using a mirror I sat 5m from it directly in a line. The room was nearly dark but not pitch black. I was allowed a few minutes to aclimatise to the dark, but certainly not 15 mins. They didn't show me the lights before the test, but I was told the five colours (Red, Green, White, Orange, Blue.) She emphasised that the white is a dirty colour, like a light bulb, not pure/bright white.
For the HW I sat 6m from it, the room was lit. The colours (Red, Green, White) were demostrated before starting. Otherwise proceedure was as done at City.
The only feedback I got was "you've made quite a few mistakes on both tests", they don't give exact results out. But I have to say overall they were very professional and kind, the woman who did the test seemed almost more annoyed/upset for me failing than I was myself.
She did say that although don't usually let people take the same tests again, I would be welcome to have another go if/when the new test (in development with City) comes into effect. Benwizz re your question on an earlier post I hope this helps a bit.
Given the "severity" of my test fails, both today and at City previously, I don't think I'm going to see out further Beyne tests in Europe. So its the end of the line for me and Class 1, ATPL.
The very best of luck to anyone still going for it themselves.
Happy landings
ES
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east_sider,
I'm sorry to hear that. Part of what p*ssed me off when I was tested was that I got no explanation of what each test supposedly relates to. I'd expect at least that from an organisation such as themselves. I sent a letter last week asking why I got no such thing, as well as a few other things. I'm ready for the 'Please contact AME Dr. X' reply. He/she will most likely say, 'Sorry mate, no idea'.
Before I forget, I'm going to try some Chroma Gen lenses soon, and possibly buy a pair to improve my day-to-day recognition etc. Does anyone know the CAA's stance on these? Or needn't I ask?
Ww/W.
I'm sorry to hear that. Part of what p*ssed me off when I was tested was that I got no explanation of what each test supposedly relates to. I'd expect at least that from an organisation such as themselves. I sent a letter last week asking why I got no such thing, as well as a few other things. I'm ready for the 'Please contact AME Dr. X' reply. He/she will most likely say, 'Sorry mate, no idea'.
Before I forget, I'm going to try some Chroma Gen lenses soon, and possibly buy a pair to improve my day-to-day recognition etc. Does anyone know the CAA's stance on these? Or needn't I ask?
Ww/W.
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JAA Class 2 with substandard vision
Hi guys,
My goal is to get a JAA PPL. Today, I found out that my eyes our substandard:
LEFT:
RIGHT:
I have perfect eyesight with my glasses, but I fall beyond the limits. I think I could manage to get me an FAA Medical and go for the FAA PPL but that would make flying in Europe a lot more difficult (only N-reg's). Now here's my question: is it absolutely impossible to get a JAA Class 2 Medical in my case or is there 'another way'?
Like:
- keep writing/insisting
- 'prove' the CAA that I CAN fly an airplane perfectly safe?
Anyone has any experience with this or know any other examples?
Thanks!
My goal is to get a JAA PPL. Today, I found out that my eyes our substandard:
LEFT:
RIGHT:
I have perfect eyesight with my glasses, but I fall beyond the limits. I think I could manage to get me an FAA Medical and go for the FAA PPL but that would make flying in Europe a lot more difficult (only N-reg's). Now here's my question: is it absolutely impossible to get a JAA Class 2 Medical in my case or is there 'another way'?
Like:
- keep writing/insisting
- 'prove' the CAA that I CAN fly an airplane perfectly safe?
Anyone has any experience with this or know any other examples?
Thanks!
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east sider
I'm sorry to hear about your test, but don't give up on flying. Look at the FAA route.
For class 3 and 2 medicals you have to recognise the light signals from a control tower at 1000 and 1500 yards - this wil allow you a CPL. For class 1 you need to do a medical flight test at night and give the rotating beacon lights as well as taxiway and runway/treashold lights. You might not have flown at night yet with CVD but they are easy to tell. The FAA guy is a flight examiner/official and not a doctor. They are very fanatical about flying and WANT you to pass.
Australia did not have any requirements for colour vision for CPL, but I'm not sure about now.
Any how I know how you feel, don't get down I'm sure you will be a pilot soon.
I'm sorry to hear about your test, but don't give up on flying. Look at the FAA route.
For class 3 and 2 medicals you have to recognise the light signals from a control tower at 1000 and 1500 yards - this wil allow you a CPL. For class 1 you need to do a medical flight test at night and give the rotating beacon lights as well as taxiway and runway/treashold lights. You might not have flown at night yet with CVD but they are easy to tell. The FAA guy is a flight examiner/official and not a doctor. They are very fanatical about flying and WANT you to pass.
Australia did not have any requirements for colour vision for CPL, but I'm not sure about now.
Any how I know how you feel, don't get down I'm sure you will be a pilot soon.
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JAA Class 1 Uncorrected Vision Requirements
Hi there,
I realise some people have asked this before but I just wanted to double check what is the latest situation at the moment in Ireland and the UK, in relation to uncorrected vision?
I was always under the impression that if your eyesight is perfect with your glasses on and your size of correction is within limits,etc, then there should be no problem.
Many thanks,
Atrflyer
I realise some people have asked this before but I just wanted to double check what is the latest situation at the moment in Ireland and the UK, in relation to uncorrected vision?
I was always under the impression that if your eyesight is perfect with your glasses on and your size of correction is within limits,etc, then there should be no problem.
Many thanks,
Atrflyer
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Hi
I think this just about covers it
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...90&pageid=2189
== snip ==
Distance Vision
Your visual acuity (measured by your ability to see, in this case, lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight. This is in the most ametropic meridian (taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres. The difference in correction between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 2.00 dioptres. Your optometrist will be able to explain these terms.
Near Vision
On the standard near vision eye chart you must be able to read the N5 print between 30 and 50 cm and the N14 print at 100 cm, with or without correction.
I think this just about covers it
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...90&pageid=2189
== snip ==
Distance Vision
Your visual acuity (measured by your ability to see, in this case, lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight. This is in the most ametropic meridian (taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres. The difference in correction between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 2.00 dioptres. Your optometrist will be able to explain these terms.
Near Vision
On the standard near vision eye chart you must be able to read the N5 print between 30 and 50 cm and the N14 print at 100 cm, with or without correction.
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[quote=ATRflyer;3060691]Hi there,
I was always under the impression that if your eyesight is perfect with your glasses on and your size of correction is within limits,etc, then there should be no problem.
ok...but what is the question...?and we,ll see if we can help.
the dean.
I was always under the impression that if your eyesight is perfect with your glasses on and your size of correction is within limits,etc, then there should be no problem.
ok...but what is the question...?and we,ll see if we can help.
the dean.
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Thanks
Hi jmorby,
Thanks for that. I had a good look through the CAA web-site and also JAR FCL, etc and it certainly does seem that there is no requirements for uncorrected vision, as they always use the phrase 'with or without correction'.
Hi thedean,
I think when you were quoting my post it missed my question which was just a general one, wondering what the latest situation is with uncorrected vision requirements in Ireland and the UK. Looks like there is none though.
Thanks,
All the best,
Atrflyer
Thanks for that. I had a good look through the CAA web-site and also JAR FCL, etc and it certainly does seem that there is no requirements for uncorrected vision, as they always use the phrase 'with or without correction'.
Hi thedean,
I think when you were quoting my post it missed my question which was just a general one, wondering what the latest situation is with uncorrected vision requirements in Ireland and the UK. Looks like there is none though.
Thanks,
All the best,
Atrflyer
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David
Obtaining a FAA ATPL under more relaxed colour vision rules would enable you to fly in UK airspace, land at Heathrow (the busiest airport in the UK).
Only one snag it has to be in one of those special US aircraft, and what is so special? The wee N number of the side, yes you've got it, as long as the aircraft is registered in the US.
That is why the present situation is so wrong and discriminatory.
What gives the UK CAA and the JAA the right to impose tougher restrictions than in other parts of the world, their charge is surely to enforce the Air Navigation Order which calls for "colour perception sufficient for the safe performance of airman duties"
Is a US airman any different to a UK one??
Food for thought.
Obtaining a FAA ATPL under more relaxed colour vision rules would enable you to fly in UK airspace, land at Heathrow (the busiest airport in the UK).
Only one snag it has to be in one of those special US aircraft, and what is so special? The wee N number of the side, yes you've got it, as long as the aircraft is registered in the US.
That is why the present situation is so wrong and discriminatory.
What gives the UK CAA and the JAA the right to impose tougher restrictions than in other parts of the world, their charge is surely to enforce the Air Navigation Order which calls for "colour perception sufficient for the safe performance of airman duties"
Is a US airman any different to a UK one??
Food for thought.
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Thanks everyone for your ongoing support and interest.
I've decided not to follow the FAA route. I'm 31 with my life and family established in the UK, flying is not quote important enough to me to risk all that. I could have self funded modular training in the UK whilst holding down a fairly well paid job with the flexibility to take several months off at a time. It just doesn't work out for me anywhere else. If I was 21 things would be different!
Theres two major problems with the CVD issue for me.
1. As we all know the rules, and tests, are massively inconsistent. The FAA will allow you to fly 400 tonnes of N registered 747 into LHR, but the CAA won't. Crazy, especially as aviation is by its very nature the most global of industries.
2. Are the current tests, any of them, remotely relevant for the tasks I have to perform as either a VFR or IFR pilot flying in 2007 and the future?
For example, I know the most difficult thing for me is a small amount of red on a lot of green - eg a cricket ball on grass pitch. So I think I'd find it more difficult (VFR) to see a red aircraft against a predominantly green ground colour, than I would to spot any aircraft navigation lights at night
Similiarly from what I've seen of Glass Cockpits, I wouldn't have a problem with the colours in there. I can distinguish between a magenta line and a yellow line on the FD as well as the next man. Or green, white and red lines! But the test and protocols are 40, 50, 60 years out of date......
Anyway its a total mess. I've built up my hopes and had them dashed enough. Its VFR PPL daytime only for me, 14 hours into training so far, I'm hoping to get my PPL finished this year. And perhaps IMC next year.
Good luck to all in the future and if anyone has just found this thread and wants any advice from my experiences of City Uni and Gatwick then drop me a PM - I'm more than happy to help as much as I can.
All the best
I've decided not to follow the FAA route. I'm 31 with my life and family established in the UK, flying is not quote important enough to me to risk all that. I could have self funded modular training in the UK whilst holding down a fairly well paid job with the flexibility to take several months off at a time. It just doesn't work out for me anywhere else. If I was 21 things would be different!
Theres two major problems with the CVD issue for me.
1. As we all know the rules, and tests, are massively inconsistent. The FAA will allow you to fly 400 tonnes of N registered 747 into LHR, but the CAA won't. Crazy, especially as aviation is by its very nature the most global of industries.
2. Are the current tests, any of them, remotely relevant for the tasks I have to perform as either a VFR or IFR pilot flying in 2007 and the future?
For example, I know the most difficult thing for me is a small amount of red on a lot of green - eg a cricket ball on grass pitch. So I think I'd find it more difficult (VFR) to see a red aircraft against a predominantly green ground colour, than I would to spot any aircraft navigation lights at night
Similiarly from what I've seen of Glass Cockpits, I wouldn't have a problem with the colours in there. I can distinguish between a magenta line and a yellow line on the FD as well as the next man. Or green, white and red lines! But the test and protocols are 40, 50, 60 years out of date......
Anyway its a total mess. I've built up my hopes and had them dashed enough. Its VFR PPL daytime only for me, 14 hours into training so far, I'm hoping to get my PPL finished this year. And perhaps IMC next year.
Good luck to all in the future and if anyone has just found this thread and wants any advice from my experiences of City Uni and Gatwick then drop me a PM - I'm more than happy to help as much as I can.
All the best
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I would suspect many of the readers of this forum are in a similar situation to me, waiting patiently for the new CAD / PAPI tests to be released by City Uni for the CAA to use. It can't come quick enough.
I thought it would be useful to just recap on the situation as I see it, these are the facts:
International aviation is governed by the ICAO and the Air Navigation Order which calls for Colour Vision sufficient for the safe performance of duties. Colour Vision requirements from country to country vary widely despite the fact that everyone has access to the same research and the same old researchers keep cropping up again and again.
The CAA have publically announced that they suspect (which really means know) they are excluding people on the basis of out of date tests and have commissioned City University to develop a new test which we eagerly await. It is the intention to get this test approved by the ICAO and have this new test introduced worldwide.
The DRC used to have the following question on their website, but now it has been removed:
Q:
I have been refused a professional pilot's licence because I have defective colour vision. I have passed certain tests that the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) set but was unable to distinguish between red and green. Is the CAA discriminating against me by refusing to give me a licence?
A:
The CAA is a professional qualification body and has a duty not to treat people less favourably for reasons relating to their disability. However, it is likely that it will be justified in not awarding a licence to you if the ability to distinguish between red and green is a competence standard which is required to be a professional pilot.
Let me now offer my take on the situation, some will maybe see this as a conspiracy theory.
The CAA know they are discriminating as this has been alluded to by some of the medics, this is a bigger political issue than many people can appreciate because I suspect there may have been pressure from the DRC or some other government agency to do something about it in the face of changing discriminatory legislation both in this country and in Europe as a whole. This is not confirmed to colour vision, there seems lately to have been a flurry of watering down of the medical requirements relating to eyesight, medical conditions etc. Have the CAA sympathetically done this off their own back or has their been under pressure from a more 'senior' authority not to exclude people unless they can demonstrate evidence to back up their position 100%
You will notice the question that WAS posted on the DRC website, the question has been answered and the answer is 100% correct given the question asked. Let me ask the question another way:
Q:
I have been refused a professional pilot's licence by the UK CAA because I have defective colour vision. I am able to go to the United States of America and I am able to gain a Professional Pilots licence that enables me to fly in airspace, and land at airports in FAA N registered commercial aircraft at destinations all over the world including the UK. Exactly the same tests are used in both countries however each country has a significantly different 'pass' criteria. Both the FAA and the CAA have the same duty to set competence standards for pilots so that the requirements of the Air Navigation Order are met (ie colour perception for the safe performance of airman duties). Is the CAA, by setting medical requirements higher than in other parts of the world discriminating against me by refusing to give me a licence?
A:
?????????
The original answer was quite correct in stating that the 'CAA is a professional qualification body and has a duty not to treat people less favourably for reasons relating to their disability'. The fact is they are setting competency standards that are, in some cases way in excess those required in other parts of the world and therefore they are discriminating against people who want to fly in UK registered aircraft, albeit the people are from different parts of the world.
There is no arguing that the CAA do a good, professional job at enforcing the rules that are in force, but they as a professional organisation also have a duty to ensure that rules set are the safe minimum so as not to discriminate against ANYBODY!!! The FAA as an example have more relaxed rules relating to colour vision and by definition considers the safe minimum to be much lower than our guys at the UK CAA.
SO here is my rather cynical view.
The new test is being introduced because many recognise that the old tests are no longer appropriate and also to passify colour defectives and give them hope, they say the standard will be reviewed and relaxed if appropriate but there is no guarantee of this. I honestly hope it does. Meantime we wait patiently doing nothing and keeping the status quo.
In the background however there are wishes to allow the test to receive ICAO approval and it's use introduced worldwide as THE international colour vision standard. This test is backed up by evidence which no doubt will be authoritive and will be difficult to challenge. No longer will pilots have the opportunity to go down the FAA route if they fail a JAA medical cause all the standards will be the same, and guess what they used the toughest standards in the world to validate the new test!!!
Neither will the CAA be at risk from future claims of discrimination on the basis that it will not be possible to say that the CAA is treating people less favorably than the aviation authorities over the world, we will just be met with the answer this person has been excluded on the basis of the international competency standard for colour vision which is the same all around the world and this is quite legitimate.
SO, Problem solved......which problem? I hear you ask. Get a fair test that does not unnecessarily exclude colour defectives or protect the CAA from claims of discrimination?
Which is correct, only YOU CAN DECIDE!!!
I thought it would be useful to just recap on the situation as I see it, these are the facts:
International aviation is governed by the ICAO and the Air Navigation Order which calls for Colour Vision sufficient for the safe performance of duties. Colour Vision requirements from country to country vary widely despite the fact that everyone has access to the same research and the same old researchers keep cropping up again and again.
The CAA have publically announced that they suspect (which really means know) they are excluding people on the basis of out of date tests and have commissioned City University to develop a new test which we eagerly await. It is the intention to get this test approved by the ICAO and have this new test introduced worldwide.
The DRC used to have the following question on their website, but now it has been removed:
Q:
I have been refused a professional pilot's licence because I have defective colour vision. I have passed certain tests that the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) set but was unable to distinguish between red and green. Is the CAA discriminating against me by refusing to give me a licence?
A:
The CAA is a professional qualification body and has a duty not to treat people less favourably for reasons relating to their disability. However, it is likely that it will be justified in not awarding a licence to you if the ability to distinguish between red and green is a competence standard which is required to be a professional pilot.
Let me now offer my take on the situation, some will maybe see this as a conspiracy theory.
The CAA know they are discriminating as this has been alluded to by some of the medics, this is a bigger political issue than many people can appreciate because I suspect there may have been pressure from the DRC or some other government agency to do something about it in the face of changing discriminatory legislation both in this country and in Europe as a whole. This is not confirmed to colour vision, there seems lately to have been a flurry of watering down of the medical requirements relating to eyesight, medical conditions etc. Have the CAA sympathetically done this off their own back or has their been under pressure from a more 'senior' authority not to exclude people unless they can demonstrate evidence to back up their position 100%
You will notice the question that WAS posted on the DRC website, the question has been answered and the answer is 100% correct given the question asked. Let me ask the question another way:
Q:
I have been refused a professional pilot's licence by the UK CAA because I have defective colour vision. I am able to go to the United States of America and I am able to gain a Professional Pilots licence that enables me to fly in airspace, and land at airports in FAA N registered commercial aircraft at destinations all over the world including the UK. Exactly the same tests are used in both countries however each country has a significantly different 'pass' criteria. Both the FAA and the CAA have the same duty to set competence standards for pilots so that the requirements of the Air Navigation Order are met (ie colour perception for the safe performance of airman duties). Is the CAA, by setting medical requirements higher than in other parts of the world discriminating against me by refusing to give me a licence?
A:
?????????
The original answer was quite correct in stating that the 'CAA is a professional qualification body and has a duty not to treat people less favourably for reasons relating to their disability'. The fact is they are setting competency standards that are, in some cases way in excess those required in other parts of the world and therefore they are discriminating against people who want to fly in UK registered aircraft, albeit the people are from different parts of the world.
There is no arguing that the CAA do a good, professional job at enforcing the rules that are in force, but they as a professional organisation also have a duty to ensure that rules set are the safe minimum so as not to discriminate against ANYBODY!!! The FAA as an example have more relaxed rules relating to colour vision and by definition considers the safe minimum to be much lower than our guys at the UK CAA.
SO here is my rather cynical view.
The new test is being introduced because many recognise that the old tests are no longer appropriate and also to passify colour defectives and give them hope, they say the standard will be reviewed and relaxed if appropriate but there is no guarantee of this. I honestly hope it does. Meantime we wait patiently doing nothing and keeping the status quo.
In the background however there are wishes to allow the test to receive ICAO approval and it's use introduced worldwide as THE international colour vision standard. This test is backed up by evidence which no doubt will be authoritive and will be difficult to challenge. No longer will pilots have the opportunity to go down the FAA route if they fail a JAA medical cause all the standards will be the same, and guess what they used the toughest standards in the world to validate the new test!!!
Neither will the CAA be at risk from future claims of discrimination on the basis that it will not be possible to say that the CAA is treating people less favorably than the aviation authorities over the world, we will just be met with the answer this person has been excluded on the basis of the international competency standard for colour vision which is the same all around the world and this is quite legitimate.
SO, Problem solved......which problem? I hear you ask. Get a fair test that does not unnecessarily exclude colour defectives or protect the CAA from claims of discrimination?
Which is correct, only YOU CAN DECIDE!!!
Last edited by biggles7374; 12th Jan 2007 at 14:36.
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Advice on vision
Hey...
I suffered a blow today, i read my Astigmatism strength wrong when i first looked into been a pilot, and when i went over the datails again today i noticed that in my left eye i have an Astigmatism of 2.5 =(
2 is the limits of the C1 CAA Medical, but i was wondering if there are any pilots out there flying with stronger, or if there are any way around this problem as such?
The CAA website says if i have Lasik surgery that my uncorrected vision still needs to be within limits before Lasik, but it only states vision and not astigmatism, so is the an option to consider?
I would appreciate any help or advice...
I suffered a blow today, i read my Astigmatism strength wrong when i first looked into been a pilot, and when i went over the datails again today i noticed that in my left eye i have an Astigmatism of 2.5 =(
2 is the limits of the C1 CAA Medical, but i was wondering if there are any pilots out there flying with stronger, or if there are any way around this problem as such?
The CAA website says if i have Lasik surgery that my uncorrected vision still needs to be within limits before Lasik, but it only states vision and not astigmatism, so is the an option to consider?
I would appreciate any help or advice...
Have a look at this thread, answers to your question may be contained within.....
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ghlight=vision
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ghlight=vision
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Davidd - the isihara plates were only numbers, no symbols. It was the same set at CAA Gatwick as at City and also found online.
Not sure what you mean by "Can you identify the colour of the individual dots that make up the plates?" I can see the individual dots, and I can see the colours are different. But I can't see they are different enough to make out a number. So as I go through the book the colour of them get closer and closer together, they look like all dots are shades of a browny/green, I can't distinguish the shades enough to see a number. On certain plates I can't see any number at all.
Hope that answers your Q.
Not sure what you mean by "Can you identify the colour of the individual dots that make up the plates?" I can see the individual dots, and I can see the colours are different. But I can't see they are different enough to make out a number. So as I go through the book the colour of them get closer and closer together, they look like all dots are shades of a browny/green, I can't distinguish the shades enough to see a number. On certain plates I can't see any number at all.
Hope that answers your Q.
I.e on this plate http://www.kcl.ac.uk/teares/gktvc/vc...ss/plate11.htm can you identify the individual dots if a non cvd person is sat next to you and points to a dot can you identify its colour ?
Have also pm'd you