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Collective Colour Vision Thread 3

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Collective Colour Vision Thread 3

Old 8th Jun 2006, 19:40
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windforce
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Collective Colour Vision Thread 3

Hello everyone,

For those who want to test themself before going to Gatwick for the visit, you can have a test at the City Uni in London where you can try the Nagel Anomaloscope (which is a test accepted by JAA) and other tests... I'm not sure but i think that u can also sit a lantern test (i don't know which one).

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Old 2nd Aug 2006, 10:30
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Collective Colour Vision Thread 3

Can anybody tell if it is possible to downloas a practical colour vision test.
I do not mean Ishihara but a Lanter software program like beyne or HW, anomaloscope etc.
I know that it exists! I saw screenshots on internet pages.
greetz
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 08:15
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maybe practical is not the right word but I think you know what I mean.
And yes a final solution would be great but if I found the solution I would not be here. But if you got the final solution for us, say it and make a lot of people happy.

I think you must use all the resources that are available. That can be your advantage. I checked the whole internet for a program but the only thing I can find is Ishihara and Farnsworth D15.

grtz
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Old 11th Aug 2006, 10:40
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City Uni tests

City Uni Colour Vision tests write up

I went for the City uni tests at the end of July, here's what you get for your £125 if anyone is interested.

The whole appointment lasts about 90 minutes, I took 6 different tests in total.

1. Ishihara colour vision test (1-25 plates of 38 plate test)
As discussed plenty on this thread previously, first you look at the Ishihara plates. Test is in a darkened room, you sit at the desk and the plates are put on a stand with a light overhead to control the light conditions. The Ishihara plates are the ones where (hopefully!) you can see numbers on them.

2. American Optical Company (HRR) Plates
Similar to Ishihara except you have to identify shapes (circle, cross, triangle etc) and point to the outline of the shape.

3. Colour Assesment and Diagnostic test (CAD)
This is a computer based test, you sit on a chair and look through a chin/forehead rest to keep your head aligned. You look at a computer monitor, which has a square (I'd guess about 10cm sq) of grey and colours. You have a remote with four buttons that correspond to the corners of the square (top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right). Each test is about 1 second, the square you are looking at moves for about 1 second, flashing lots of different shades of grey small squares. Within this you should be able to see a coloured area, moving across one of the diagonal axis. Once the movement stops you have to press the button on the remote for the corner the coloured area stopped in. If you don't know you are told to guess. Its a difficult test (and I was warned this before I started), because it adjusts to your answers as it runs. You go through loads of the 1 second iterations, hundreds. It probably took me 15 mins in total. Further up this thread somewhere there is a link to a simple online version of this test.

4. Farnsworth D15 test
This is a series of 15 coloured counters (like a boardgame) of slightly differing shades, they put one counter in place to start you off and you have to put them in order of colour change, like a "spectrum". Its the only test I passed, with one mistake.

5. Nagel anomaloscope
Apparently this is still the Rolls Royce of tests. You look into a instrument similar to a telescope, and see a circle of colour split into to semi-circular halves. The operator sets the top half to one colour, you have to look into the eyepiece and twist a dial to match the bottom half to the top. Frankly I found it very difficult.

6. Holmes-Wright Lantern (Type A)
This is what I'd really gone for, becuase I understand this is what you get at Gatwick if you fail Ishihara. This test was done in a different room, twice, once with near darkness, and again in as close to pitch black as possible. I found it more difficult in the total darkness.
You sit 6m away from the lantern, which has 2 lights. They are about 2mm in diameter (same size as a standby LED on a TV set), positioned in a vertical line about 3cm apart.
The lights can be three colours, Red, Green, White. Before the test starts the operator shows you all three colours and tells you which is which.
The lights are shown in pairs, and you have to call out in turn what the colour is, top then bottom. Eg Red-Red, Red-White, Red-Green, Green-Green, etc etc. There are about 30-40 pairs I think. You are not allowed to make any mistakes.

Disappointingly but unsurprisingly I failed most of the tests. For the Holmes Wright lantern I can't differentiate between White and Green. I answered White-White when it was White-Green, White-white when it was Green-Green, etc etc. My condition is diagnosed as Protanomaly.

Written report
You receive a written report of the results about 1 week after the appointment. You are also verbally told the results on the day, and of course you can ask questions. I was advised it is highly unlikely I can pass a Class 1 medical, certainly not in the UK.

New PAPI test trials
City Uni are developing a new test based on PAPI lights as mentioned in this thread. I asked about this, was told (and shown the kit - looks similar to lantern) that it is about to be trialled, but it is not CAA approved yet. City Uni are looking for volunteers for the trail, if anyone is interested PM me for the Uni contact name and number.

If anyone wants to know more feel free to PM me.

cheers
Ian
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Old 22nd Aug 2006, 09:50
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REd Green Colour deficiency

Hi everyone ...I am a new member of this site ... This site is great and i learned alot from other's experiences. I have a few questions, and i am hoping that someone can give me a hand.
I just realized that i have REd Green Colour deficiency . I failed the Ishihara test and my optomerist is booking the Lantern test for me. I was reading some of the posts from this site and others are stating that Airlines (such as CX, KA ..etc) have their own medical standards. Even if i am qualify for Class 1, airlines might not accept me since their medical standards are usually tougher than Class1 standards. I emailed the aviation doctor for CX and he said as long as i pass the lantern test, i will be qualify for Class 1 in Hk . But he did not say whether CX accepts anyone with Colour deficiency.
I am currently in my 2nd year of university study and i want to make Flying my career. I got to start saving money for flying school if i am to pursue my career as a pilot. I am just wondering if there is a way to Know the airlines medical standards? Will my colour vision problem prohibit me from getting into airline such as CX? enough for CX.

Thanks you
best regard
steve
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Old 24th Aug 2006, 08:08
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That's a good point, Jimmy.

Ishihara tests are designed to be conducted in Northern Daylight. Most Optometrists have a lamp which simulates this condition but as with all things mechanical they will all be subject to degradation over time.

According to an Optometrist friend of mine, the Ishihara tests are only ever truly reliable if they are conducted in good daylight conditions.

As for the Ishihara tests being different, I was informed that the only differences were between the 24 and 36 plate editions . JAA requirements are based only on the first 16 plates of the 24 plate edition.

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Old 1st Sep 2006, 05:20
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ATCO colour vision test

I am applying to become an ATCO and have a question about the ATCO version of the JAR CLass 1 medical for eyesight....

For the JAR Class 1 medical the CAA says that you must pass the Ishihara test, and if you can't do that then you must pass an approved lantern test.

For my own peace of mind I have taken the Ishihara test locally and will take a lantern test next week. I can get most of the questions right in the Ishihara but do have difficulty with some. As I suspect that I failed an RAF medical on colour vision 12 years ago, I am a little anxious.

My question is,

Are the rules for colour vision for ATCO and pilots EXACTLY the same, or are they slightly less strict for ATCO? (The CAA says that the eyesight medical for ATCO "generally" follows the JAR Class 1")

I don't see any posts on the forum colour blind thread specifically about ATC so I hope that someone can help here.

Thanks

KIX
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Old 1st Sep 2006, 19:05
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CAA looking to introduce new way to test for colour vision deficiencies

Flight article
[...]

The authority says it is "concerned" that the present colour vision requirements may be inappropriate for pilot tasks that have emerged since current tests were introduced. It is working with City University in London to develop a computer-based colour assessment and diagnosis (CAD) test that aims to be "fair and task-related", says CAA optometrist Adrian Chorley.

[...]
I have protanomalous vision, which means I have difficulty distiguishing red. I won't pass an Ishihara colour-card test, so to say the least I am very interested to know if this might mean I actually have a shot at getting a class I medical after all.
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Old 11th Sep 2006, 11:48
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Hi Kaijakk,

I've used a colour vision contact lens in the past and it certainly wasn't very useful for many things.

I'm unsure if they're exactly the same as the ones you mention but the one I tried was a clear contact lens with a distinct deep red spot on the centre of vision.

I don't know how it works but I went from not being able to read a couple of Ishihara plates to seeing every one of them. It didn't help all that much.

The negetive side is that there is only one lens and this is placed on your weaker eye. So through your weaker eye everything within your immediate centre of vision is a red colour. The peripheral (spell?) vision is normal but you get a strong clash with normal vision in your strong eye (with no lens in) with a red/clear vision in your weaker eye. It is sort of like looking through those great 3D glasses you get out of cereal packets. The ones with a Red and Green lens.

You then find yourself fighting to control what eye you really want to look out. Your strong eye is dominant but your weaker eye helps the colour vision in certain tasks. I must stress that I personally got confused an awful lot on some things. Because the lens makes you see red, everything has a red tinge to it. Even Green things! I found myself seeing red things in my strong eye that were in fact red, but the lens then turned them into a bright green! It was a very very perculiar experience. I know the contradicts the previous sentence but that did happen.

However red objects and red colours, say red spots on a brown background did then stand out like i've never experienced before. The funny thing is I think I have mild deutanopia. Mild green deficiency.

I think one of the problems I found was that it wans't perscribed with enough accuracy. My optician has given me good eyesight figures but when he ordered the lens with those figures in mind, my sight was a little blurred when looking through the lens. Don't forget the lens has to be specially made for your eyesight and I think mine needed a slight perscription altered to it.

I was told very adamently not to go driving with them and I understood why. I only tried them for a couple of weeks but they did help with the Ishihara plates. I think they may help me spot the brown ball on a snooker table when I watch TV too. In real life I don't have much problem with the colours on a snooker table. Its just tv that makes me struggle.

I'd be interested in seeing how it affects vision for pilots and ATCOs but I think i'd rather trust my natural colour blind vision.

You really need to try it to understand my experience and it is likely that your experience will be different anyway because our colour vision is very unique to each and everyone of us.

Hope that helps.

Shg.

Last edited by shgsaint; 29th Sep 2008 at 17:10.
 
Old 12th Sep 2006, 08:22
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Some info for anyone thinking of going to the USA - the FAA has scrapped the Farnsworth Lantern Test (See FAA medical website).

9 out of 22 is a pass in Canada? How the hell can one country (or group of countries) stipulate NIL errors as a pass whereas another country will permit 2 errors, another 6 and another country allows lots?

Isn't it strange that one of the the only countries that doesn't permit any mistakes is the same country that publishes a document stating that the Ishihara tests and the lantern tests are unreliable!

HTH

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Old 12th Sep 2006, 21:25
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City Uni new PAPI test

After my appointment with City Uni for a full colour vision assessment back in July I volunteered to trial the new PAPI test and have just been back to do the tests today, this is a write up of my experience.

I was given a number of different tests. Three of these were a repeat of the Colour Assesment and Diagnostic test (CAD) described in my post above. It is the computer monitor with grey animated square, and an area of colour moving across one of the diagonals. It runs in 1 second cycles and you press a button corresponding to the corner of the square where you think the coloured area stopped moving. The difference each of the three times I took this test is the amount of background noise added in to the animation. The "standard" level is 45% noise, which I did last time. This time I did 12%, 60% and 90% (I think). Presumably the idea is to see how people perform at more extreme levels of ease/difficulty, to help find or confirm the "normal" noise level to use.

Then took the PAPI test - this is basically a series of four lights in a horizontal line, which can be white or red. They light for about 1 second then you have to say how many red lights you see, from 0-4 (ie five possible answers). Having never used PAPIs (I'm a <10hours PPL student) I found this test easy, but I can seperate red and white ok, its the white/green on the Holmes Wright lantern I struggled with.

There is a second stage to this test with five different colours - white, red, green, yellow and blue. These either appear on their own, or in a pair, one of which is always white. You have to say the other colour. I found blue and red easy every time, struggled to differentiate white, green and yellow sometimes.

The CAD test is important as according to the person testing me, it will likely be used in conjunction with the PAPI test in the future. This is basically because the CAD test is relatively easy to recreate in reasonably equal conditions (its basically just a software package I guess, maybe with a certain type of monitor etc). The PAPI test is a large, fairly mechanical piece of kit which is cumbersome and expensive, so I gathered not practical for widespread use.

It is my understanding that something like this could happen in the future:

1. The CAD test "replaces" Ishihara plates as the initial screening, possibly for Class 2 as well as Class 1. It is more accurate than Ishihara as it narrows your CVD down to a fairly close range.

2. Anyone "failing" this test, against whatever standards/prescription is set, would then have to take the PAPI test. This would probably only be possible at a few or even just one (Gatwick?) location.

Please note this last hypothesis on the future is entirely my understanding from talking to the person testing me, I got the impression it was still a moving piece (so to speak) with the CAA and nothing is definite yet. Clearly the results of the testing phase I took part in will help shape the future.

I hope somehow this all leads to a fairer or more realistic set of standards and tests for colour vision in the future. All I want to do is fly and no one I've spoken to so far can point to specific things that I can't do, apart from perhaps identify an aircraft at night from wing lights only. How likely is that in this day and age? If you're IFR in controlled airspace you'd better know a collision is approaching long before those lights save you.... or they could just change it worldwide to blue and yellow for port and starboard!!!

Probably too much detail on here already but if anyone wants more feel free to PM. I know one or two other people posting on this thread might be taking part in this trial, any comments from others experiences would be very interesting.

Last edited by east_sider; 12th Sep 2006 at 21:28. Reason: spelling
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Old 11th Oct 2006, 14:48
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Hello,
I failed the ishihara test on my 2 JAR class, but as alternative test I has few grey triangles - in every cornel was colour light (red, green, orange etc..what is name of this test?). All my answers were correct so I passed. Have I chance to pass tests for 1 class?

Regards!
Piotrek

Sorry but my english isn't very well
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 15:54
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City University Research Project

Hi All

I thought I'd post a note following my visit to City Uni yesterday. When I got my medical (and failed Ishihara) in January, I subsequently went to Gatwick and failed both lanterns. They put my name forward for the City Uni research project, and after a few months wait I went down there.

First of all was good old Ishihara, a few different variations of, all of which I got some wrong. Second was a test based on the sample they have on their website where you follow the coloured square around the screen. Completely different to the website version though; it's designed to give a really accurate evaluation of where your colour deficiency is and to what extent you are affected. The conclusion of this, and I quote "Very mild dueteronomy (sp?) and your green cone wavelength recognition is left of centre, which will mean green/white differenciation is where you'll have trouble". Nice to finally get something other than "sorry sir, you've failed, now **** off".

After a couple more tests including the anomoloscope we moved onto their really useful test, the PAPI simulator. I got 100% of these right. The idea behind the project is that they can build a picture of what level of deficiency can be classed as acceptable, instead of just a black & white approach. The current CAA approach is based purely on the fact that until recently there just wasn't a satisfactory enough method of establishing where you were on the scale of perfect to useless.

I was told that when the new system is adopted I would be one of the lucky ones to benefit from it as my defect is very mild. It's certainly reassuring to know that change and common sense are both in the pipeline.

The project is currently about half way through their sample subjects, so I would encourage anyone in the same boat as me to request the CAA pass your details on to City. By the way, as it's part of a research project, the whole 2 hour exam is free and at least you'll get the satisfaction of knowing exactly where you stand in the grand scheme of colour vision things.

I hope this is useful to some of you. Cheers.
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Old 31st Oct 2006, 19:40
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Hi all,

I have been following the 2 threads regarding colourblindness closely and, while understanding that most of the discussion pertains to the CAA/JAA, I am hoping for some insight into my situation with Transport Canada.

Just today, I took the Farnsworth D-15 colour test where I flawlessly passed the first two tests administered and made one error on the third test administered. I then took the Holmes-Wright lantern test, upon which I was informed that my answers were inconsistent with the green/white colours being displayed. Upon completion of the Holmes-Wright, I then took the Farnsworth D-15 again to prove for a fourth time my competency in flawlessly determining the pattern of colours.

This then brings me to my question:
If I have consistently demonstrated complete competency and accuracy with the Farnsworth D-15 test (which is considered an alternate to the Ishihara, while the lantern is considered an alternate to the D-15), upon which grounds will Transport Canada consider my colour vision competency? Does the fact that I was completely successful with the D-15 indicate that I have meet TC's colour distinction requirements or will my failure on the Holmes-Wright lantern test outweigh my successes with the Farnsworth D-15.

Thank you in advance.

-YVRtoYYZ
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Old 14th Nov 2006, 19:36
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JAA and Misinterpretation of Tests

How come the UK CAA are failing to correctly apply the instructions laid down by the JAA Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine with regard to Ishihara testing?

"Testing with pseudo-isochromatic plates should be performed according to the instructions given by each test"

The instructions for the Ishihara 24 Plate version clearly states that up to 2 errors on Plates 1 - 17 still constitutes a pass.

So why does the UK CAA not permit any errors?

Is this the same with other JAA states?

Surely, this must be open to challenge.
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Old 15th Nov 2006, 09:49
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Originally Posted by 2close
How come the UK CAA are failing to correctly apply the instructions laid down by the JAA Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine with regard to Ishihara testing?
"Testing with pseudo-isochromatic plates should be performed according to the instructions given by each test"
The instructions for the Ishihara 24 Plate version clearly states that up to 2 errors on Plates 1 - 17 still constitutes a pass.
So why does the UK CAA not permit any errors?
Is this the same with other JAA states?
Surely, this must be open to challenge.
Because they make it up as they go along and noone can touch them !!

Roll on progress.
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Old 29th Nov 2006, 20:26
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Originally Posted by 2close
FAA accept the Farnsworth.
CAA accept both Holmes Wright and Anomalscope.
HTH
2close
CAA also administer the Holmes Wright, and from my experience it's a complete farce (I failed the Ishihara Plates but fancied getting a Night Rating for my PPL, so I went for the H-W). I paid my fee, trekked down to Gatwick, and got five minutes into the test before being told that because I'd got one red/green combination wrong, the test must cease immediately.

On one hand, that's fair enough - if that's what the procedure says, that's how it should be.

On the other hand, it's damned annoying. First of all, you're sat quite a long way from the tiny light pin-pricks (I know it's called a "lantern" test, which makes you think of carol singers with socking great candles in metal boxes, but we're talking tiny points of light) and so distance vision is being tested just as much as colour vision. Second, the test begins in ambient light - in this case fluorescent light in a windowless room - and after a while they turn the lights off. Third, I'd paid my fee so I damn well think I was entitled to go through the entire test just to see how I'd done in the dark (this was never tested, as the tester stopped the test during the ambient light phase).

So after a day off work and a fee to the CAA, I know that I have trouble picking out tiny points of red and green under a bright fluorescent bulb (not exactly the conditions I come across in the sky all that often). Sadly, I have no idea whether I would be able to meet the standard that matters - red/green requirement in the dark. If the test had carried on to the "dark" stage and I'd failed, I'd have been OK with that - at least I'd have known that there was a problem. As it is, I have no idea whether my colour perception in the dark is up to scratch.

The other thing that annoys me is that the guy doing the test basically said: "Sorry, you've failed". He actually thought I was aiming for commercial flying (he didn't know I was just a PPL wanting a night rating) yet there was nothing in his manner that was even close to "letting me down gently". And in fact, as I was sat outside waiting for my taxi to the station, he even came out and asked me to go in and let him check my distance vision, as it had suddenly occurred to him that the problem may be the inability to see the lights, not the inability to distinguish the colours. Didn't make a difference though.

When I told my AME about my experiences at my last medical, I think the word "furious" pretty much sums it up. And I agree with him. Since then, I've been told that I have a "slight" colour vision problem by an optician who did a City University test on me. All I really want is a realistic test that I can come out of with a verdict of whether my colour vision is crap or not. So I think I'll track down an Anomalscope test and see how I go.

David C
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Old 30th Nov 2006, 06:51
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Good post David.. you should claim to the CAA that the test was not conducted properly!! This is not fair!! and I totally agree with you, itīs a farse..

********************************

Does anybody knows where can I find information about the Spectrolux lantern test procedure for califications?? e.g no fails allowed or one fail allowed on first turn, etc.. ??
I was checking the CAA Manual of Aviation Medicine from JAA main web page and it doesnīt mention the Spectrolux, but the JAR-FCL 3.225 (b) appendix 14 does..
Any hint?

Thanks..
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Old 1st Dec 2006, 15:28
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Hi all.. I need to try my question again.. sorry
Please.. Does anybody knows where can I find information about the Spectrolux lantern test procedures?? e.g no fails allowed or one fail allowed on first turn, etc.. ??
I was checking the CAA Manual of Aviation Medicine at the JAA main web page but it doesnīt mention the Spectrolux (only Beyne or H-W), but the JAR-FCL 3.225 (b) appendix 14 does.. and it says no errors with the lanterns but I know that for example, Holmes-Wright accepts some mistakes on the first run and then there is a dark adapted test.
But, how it is with the Spectrolux? no errors allowed, one error on first run?
Does anyboby knows where is it published or where can I find information about it?

Thanks..
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Old 8th Dec 2006, 18:21
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lantern eye test in malaysia

hello everyone.i'm really really new to pprune.
i feel that pprune could help me as it has already helped thousands of other members.

i'm from malaysia.i failed the ishihara test last year and i was hoping to try my luck in australia to become a airline pilot.

I understand that CASA only accepts ishihara and lantern test results.But for me,the timing of events couldn't have been worse.

the only lantern eye testing facility(tun hussien onn eye hospital) known is not operational.instead the nurse asked me to do a 100 hue test.Unfortunately,CASA does not accept the 100 hue test results.

could anyone tell me where could i do the lantern eye test in malaysia?
thanks
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