Ryanair interviews and sim assessments - 2

[BraceBrace]

Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123

It’s true we shouldn’t be paying for a TR but it’s the industry now. I have learnt that I’m down turns such as these you still get more opportunities.

It is the industry of the "paid career" which isn't the industry reference. I'm not here to "judge", it's simply a conclusion after so many years knowing and meeting people who have chosen different paths in the last two decades.

Ryanair uses you and you use Ryanair as well. You basically pay for a quick career. Quick command, quick LTC, quick TRI, quick TRE. So you will meet 30 year old Ryanair TRI/TRE's who've stuck up with Ryanair's "treatment" but also got a quick career out of it. Once a TRI, always a TRI. On the other hand, the experience is the experience you get: low cost flying in Europe on a 737. But the resume says TRI.

The ones who don't pay, there are other possibilities with a lot longer waiting times. You will be at least 40 before you get a shot at being a 737-style TRI. But in general you probably have an opportunity to experience "other" things, unfortunately these things aren't really "valid" in the world of aviation. SFI isn't as valuable as TRI. Cruise relief captain on intercontinental widebody network isn't as valuable as full left seat.

So when the shit hits the fan, you are either a senior 30 year old widebody first officer looking for a job, or a fresh 30 year old TRI.

I'm not a Ryanair guy by-the-way. I'm just a dude who notices that once inside a company, the 7 year Ryanair-in-Europe career equals or surpasses my 15 year narrow/widebody non-funded-type-ratings career. Not good or bad, just a conclusion. The Ryanair guys/girls I know are a good bunch of people who did what we all tried to do: making a living by doing what we love the most.

So despite all the negativity around the paid type-rating, I would say the return-on-investment is pretty good... (if you have the money.... and the abilities of course)

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Brace Brace, exactly!!!

I have been flying for 5 years, have friends gone all sorts of routes. The current situation has shown me that those that paid for TR are all doing better be it at EZY,RYR Blue Air etc.
At RYR you can get SFI in FO role. Get command and that translates to TRI on upgrade. Literally gold dust. TRI/TRE are always required. As said it speeds up your career. Depending on what you want from your career. I enjoyed my TP flying. Great fun, great bunch of guys/gals but at the end of the day being on the market without Boeing or Airbus time is crap.

[Toro103r]

Is 39 too long in the tooth to hope for an airline position ? Was told all throughout training even by Ryanair at events, absolutely not, only to be refused even the opportunity to do an online assessment, even though I met all the Min requirements.

[Another_French_Pilot]

Hi everybody,
I've been following your exchanges for a long time now and decided it was time to registrer on PP !

> The title of this topic being the selection process at Ryanair, wouldn't it be better if your Ryanair pro or con debate take place on a dedicated topic?
You could then debate in a corner provided for this purpose ? It becomes difficult to find the information we really want to exchange here : our experience of the select process.

> I have a question for those who have experienced the selection process.
A friend got the link for the online test while applying a week later than me ... I'm starting to worry if there is not a problem with my application. ATPL result ? We have the same MCC/JOC.
Is this a situation that some have already experienced ? Maybe it's totally ok and I'm worried about nothing

Thanks !

[Scorpape]

Originally Posted by Another_French_Pilot

Hi everybody,
I've been following your exchanges for a long time now and decided it was time to registrer on PP !

> The title of this topic being the selection process at Ryanair, wouldn't it be better if your Ryanair pro or con debate take place on a dedicated topic?
You could then debate in a corner provided for this purpose ? It becomes difficult to find the information we really want to exchange here : our experience of the select process.

> I have a question for those who have experienced the selection process.
A friend got the link for the online test while applying a week later than me ... I'm starting to worry if there is not a problem with my application. ATPL result ? We have the same MCC/JOC.
Is this a situation that some have already experienced ? Maybe it's totally ok and I'm worried about nothing

Thanks !

Don't worry too much, the answer time of Ryanair seems to depend a lot. I waited one month before receiving the online assessment convocation whereas some friends had it in 48h. Just make sure all your documents are uploaded in a proper manner.

Also for the age question, I was at Ryanair HQ this week for the assessment and most of the cadets were between 20 and 25 but one was something like 37 so don't draw conclusions too early !

[ced0802]

you guys scare me a bit with the age factor...I am going towards my 34 (finishing my training in April). Didn't know the age could be discriminating.
(still don't know how some can pay 60 to 100k in their 20s)

[rotorwills]

Toro103.

I can assure you that age is no barrier at this moment to entry at any level into RyanAir. The fundamental reason is their recruitment intake has stalled somewhat. Source is a real old mate who is in management/recruitment training and has been advised they need to speed up their throughput. RyanAir are taking an aggressive approach on expansion and have ambitious plans in the next two years. Given that, that aren't getting the balance right. They have lost a ground in attracting experienced FO's. Although they are flying a really good number of flights and crew are getting decent numbers of hours they amended their hour levels from 800 to 1500 Ryan hours before considering a command course. This has skewed the time frames for new experienced seekers to get command with a year or so to go out to at least 2/3 years. Result, the loss of SFO guys who just didn't want to spend that time in rhs.

Big push on cadet recruitment from now, expected to increase by 60% from present level, not revealed numbers that is. More than likely they will reduce any entry barriers which reduce their thirst for crew potential.

Age is certainly not an issue and who knows maybe they will reduce the cash upfront? We will see.

I believe it's good news all round except for their direct competition which has suffered over the years. MOL is a monster, glad we aren't direct competitor.

[ced0802]

I feel like opinions differ so much on that question..well, I guess we just need to go for it

[ollie135]

I passed an assessment for the 2019 5k deal which over time morphed into 30k which was/is a no go. If they'd like to return to the original offer then sign me up.

[African_TrouserSnake]

As I remember they were running the 30K scheme during the late 2000's aswell, does anybody know when they decided reduce it to 5k+bond?

[Brian Pern]

Originally Posted by African_TrouserSnake

As I remember they were running the 30K scheme during the late 2000's aswell, does anybody know when they decided reduce it to 5k+bond?

A couple of years ago, they were short, desperately short, even offering experienced FO's and Capt's a nice golden handshake.
Covid put paid to that, but from what I have heard they will be short again, a lot of upset crew members looking for exits.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Originally Posted by Brian Pern

A couple of years ago, they were short, desperately short, even offering experienced FO's and Capt's a nice golden handshake.
Covid put paid to that, but from what I have heard they will be short again, a lot of upset crew members looking for exits.

That might be true but to where?

Thousands of pilots still out of work. Flydubai had something like 4000 pilots apply when they opened up a few months ago which is why they closed it after around a week if that!!!

Doubt they will be short of FO yes Captains will probably be the issue. That’s the case at most airlines.

[ced0802]

Originally Posted by Brian Pern

A couple of years ago, they were short, desperately short, even offering experienced FO's and Capt's a nice golden handshake.
Covid put paid to that, but from what I have heard they will be short again, a lot of upset crew members looking for exits.

I don't see either how can any company with the current situation we are facing be potentially short of pilots

[JackTorrance]

Originally Posted by rotorwills

Age is certainly not an issue

Yes it is... I'm over 40, zero fails at ATPL exams, average score of 95% at ATPL exams, MCC+JOC, Bachelor’s in Engineering Degree, 20+ years of work in IT, never called back for an assessment.
The only reason may be the age I suppose.

[ced0802]

Originally Posted by JackTorrance

Yes it is... I'm over 40, zero fails at ATPL exams, average score of 95% at ATPL exams, MCC+JOC, Bachelor’s in Engineering Degree, 20+ years of work in IT, never called back for an assessment.
The only reason may be the age I suppose.

Don't worry too much. When they will need people they will contact you. You can do the job just as good as a young 20 y old.
Also, I would tend to think someone with previous experiences in life can be an asset.

[Fixedgear]

ATS
April 2018

[chnor]

I applied december 2020 and got invited to sim assessment in april 2021. Unfortunately I could not attend due to covid restrictions and the online test I took is only valid for 6 months.. I reapplied last week and hoping for a invitation to the online test soon. Does anyone know how long time it will take before they send out the online test? When i applied december 2020 it took about three months... Also wondering if they place you on hold after successful online test, or if they have planned any courses in the near future..

[flyingtrain]

Hi DaveDurban,

I probably sit somewhere between your view and Aiminghigh and Bracebrace......
You say there will be nowhere for the FO's/cadets being hired in 4 years time or so, for the quick progression they desire. Do you not believe in RYR expansion cross Europe. They are projecting 225m pax annually in 2026 (increase from 149m in 2019). With the aggressive approach and the position of the market right now, I think it could be realistic and therefore that expansion will provide at least some progression for the FO's and cadets being taken on.
As for the salaries, from what I have heard, you are giving bottom end Winter net figures and 2.5k would be a generous but achievable high summer net figure. The way the pay is set up will mean pay could be drastically different over the course of the year.
Agree with a lot of what you've said but cant help but feel it is overly pessimistic at times. Perhaps I have slightly rose tinted specs on. I guess time will tell.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Wow and I thought I was pessimistic!!!

I think BA will open up in 2023. People were starting right up until lockdown 2020 and others had start dates for April that year. Ryanair have huge expansion plans. EK are having trouble getting everyone to come back and Flydubai are running assessments now. Ryanair have to plan on over capacity because a lot of people do leave once they have 1500 hrs ATPL etc.

The guys who told me there salary are all UK based. Started around 8 months back. Throughout summer they were 80+hrs a month.

To add. A certain TP operator (now defunct) was bonding pilots for 5 years for £18k. Take home salary was around £2500 with no real increase until SFO (3 years)at which point you would be on around £3300 max. Go for command and then you are bonded again. £7k I think for couple of years. With a take home of £4200ish. 80hours plus with 7-10 days off a month. Hard work.
Market collapses and you are only just above cadets in the pecking order!!! Trust me that’s where I am right now.

[BraceBrace]

I had the option to join Ryanair post 2000 crisis. Didn't do it, wouldn't throw down the 30k, only to find myself working as an engineer for 3 years with a net salary that was 1250€ raising to 1400€ at the end. All that after spending 6 years (4 engineering, 2 ATPL) studying books... talk about paying back loans on that salary.

And I wouldn't be pessimistic if you'd like to join a major and nothing would move in the next 5 years... because it is already moving. I know some people who were widebody captain and went to a major. That's the problem these days... nobody is patient anymore. It all has to go quick quick quick. The upgrades will come. These days, a hired F/O talks about nothing else but left seat... there is no need for it. Give it 5 years and you will see... As a trainer I would say: focus on what you need to learn first. You will get there.