Ryanair interviews and sim assessments - 2
Join Date: Sep 2005
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The contract I saw, had only a mention of 18k basic, no reference to any base agreement or sector pay in it, so I am unable to correct it, merely stating what was on the contract.
I stated above the pay for new cadets in Dublin. If they were so transparent why do they not tell cadets when they join? No one is told, its fraudulent mis-selling. They certainly were not told they would end up in morroco, which an entire TR ended up in a month ago.
One lad a month ago was offered a base in PMO. Sign it by tomorrow or transfer is nulled, but they could not tell him what the pay is. I kid you not. This is not normal behaviour.
The most telling fact about what a terrible place it is to work is this.
Why are there no staff in any significant numbers here from tui/ba/az/lufty/klm/vs/j2?
The odd one or 2 (normally after a disagreement with management or sacked), its all cadets, or tin pot airlines from brazil or eastern europe.
That is so telling, even for the mystical 5/4….hire cadets, they don’t know any different. Most have not even worked in tesco, and think this is how all companies operate.
Some cadets were at primary school when the old FO contractor pay was here. Of course they do not know anything about how it was, they only believe what they get told when duffys group appear at their flight schools.
I wish my days were easy and non eventful…my base is fairly renouned for being hectic. I would share how the last month has gone but it would be too revealing! It is not a striaght forward job, especially coupled with 3am wake ups to blunt your edge.
I stated above the pay for new cadets in Dublin. If they were so transparent why do they not tell cadets when they join? No one is told, its fraudulent mis-selling. They certainly were not told they would end up in morroco, which an entire TR ended up in a month ago.
One lad a month ago was offered a base in PMO. Sign it by tomorrow or transfer is nulled, but they could not tell him what the pay is. I kid you not. This is not normal behaviour.
The most telling fact about what a terrible place it is to work is this.
Why are there no staff in any significant numbers here from tui/ba/az/lufty/klm/vs/j2?
The odd one or 2 (normally after a disagreement with management or sacked), its all cadets, or tin pot airlines from brazil or eastern europe.
That is so telling, even for the mystical 5/4….hire cadets, they don’t know any different. Most have not even worked in tesco, and think this is how all companies operate.
Some cadets were at primary school when the old FO contractor pay was here. Of course they do not know anything about how it was, they only believe what they get told when duffys group appear at their flight schools.
I wish my days were easy and non eventful…my base is fairly renouned for being hectic. I would share how the last month has gone but it would be too revealing! It is not a striaght forward job, especially coupled with 3am wake ups to blunt your edge.
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Whichever way you look at it, it sounds like you’re paid proportionally to what you do. If I’m being paid over 100k a year or close to I’d expect to be working my socks off for it.
I was told pay scales when I joined, I just asked the question and they told me what the wages would be, and they are correct for DAC contracts.
For whatever reason the cadet contract only mentions basic pay, this was how it was done pre covid too, not sure why.
The cadets in Morocco on the new contracts as I said are seeing sector pay and the additional allowances, even though there was no mention of it in the contract, which proves my point.
I was told pay scales when I joined, I just asked the question and they told me what the wages would be, and they are correct for DAC contracts.
For whatever reason the cadet contract only mentions basic pay, this was how it was done pre covid too, not sure why.
The cadets in Morocco on the new contracts as I said are seeing sector pay and the additional allowances, even though there was no mention of it in the contract, which proves my point.
Last edited by Dashcam; 2nd Dec 2021 at 17:43.
Join Date: Feb 2017
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I hope you are joking !! Really Which job requires you to study all the time , keep you skills fresh .... The pilot job is a serious one !!! its not all about pushing buttons and having an easy life !!!
Join Date: Feb 2019
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I understand all of that, believe me I find the job very stressful and challenging at times, but the majority of our working day we are sat in the cruise not doing a fat lot.
If you look at the original point I was making, I was saying the guy earns a six figure salary for doing this job then comes on here to complain that it’s not enough money!
If you look at the original point I was making, I was saying the guy earns a six figure salary for doing this job then comes on here to complain that it’s not enough money!
can hit the fan also in severe CAVOK. I would dare to say that we aren't even paid enough (I'm not in RYR).
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Any person who feels that a First Officer or a Captain should be on less than £100K basic is in my opinion the problem. The amount of constant professional development and standards that need to be developed or maintained are the highest in any industry. The responsibility of hundreds of lives whilst flying a machine at speeds beyond human capability requires nothing less than talent and skill. I used to love the aviation profession, unfortunately I now feel it’s been taken over by social media children. Take a look at the net worth of aviation leaders including Michael O’Leary and you will appreciate where the lack of salaries are ending up. As long as there is one prostitute in aviation willing to invest £50-100K and then to be paid peanuts, we will all be treated with the utmost disgust. It’s now up to the Instagram children how they wish to be treated for the next 30 years.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Spot on.
Ironically it is youngsters that often drive change for the good in all parts of society, apart from aviation.
Every person that is on linkedin “thanking” Ryr for the job (which they paid for in training and rating) is part of the problem. Everyone of these protrays ryr in a good friendly light, helping their cause, making others want to join. Its incredible to witness.
As long as the boss keeps getting richer, thats the main thing though. Lets all take an even bigger paycut to help him…perhaps just pay the insta warriors in likes? That instant gratification they all crave.
Ironically it is youngsters that often drive change for the good in all parts of society, apart from aviation.
Every person that is on linkedin “thanking” Ryr for the job (which they paid for in training and rating) is part of the problem. Everyone of these protrays ryr in a good friendly light, helping their cause, making others want to join. Its incredible to witness.
As long as the boss keeps getting richer, thats the main thing though. Lets all take an even bigger paycut to help him…perhaps just pay the insta warriors in likes? That instant gratification they all crave.
Join Date: Apr 2020
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bloated
although I think the term prostitute is a bit harsh, I cannot understand why a pilot needs to pay for their own training and if as UAV says you are even paying for HOTAC, then you are being taken for a ride.
although I think the term prostitute is a bit harsh, I cannot understand why a pilot needs to pay for their own training and if as UAV says you are even paying for HOTAC, then you are being taken for a ride.
As much as I hate to say it UAV is telling the truth, although I do not work for Ryanair, I have been involved in training and selection for them in the past.
I also keep in touch with some of the young men and women I have had the pleasure of training.
But hey its all supply and demand, as long as there is demand....
I also keep in touch with some of the young men and women I have had the pleasure of training.
But hey its all supply and demand, as long as there is demand....
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Brian Pern correctly identified the root cause, supply and demand, when the supply (of pilots) exceeds the demand, pay rates go down and when the demand (for pilots) exceeds the supply, then pay increases.
The mantra has for some time been, "if you don't like it, move on" and therefore the turnover of staff has been huge and the queue of people to replace those who have moved on has meant that there is no case to increase the rates of pay, so we have a situation where a cadet on qualifying nets around £1800 and pays £1200 of that to the bank leaving £600 per month for rent, beer and fags.
There are those who look back at the 1980s as the golden years, but here we are in 2021 with 1980s pay.
The mantra has for some time been, "if you don't like it, move on" and therefore the turnover of staff has been huge and the queue of people to replace those who have moved on has meant that there is no case to increase the rates of pay, so we have a situation where a cadet on qualifying nets around £1800 and pays £1200 of that to the bank leaving £600 per month for rent, beer and fags.
There are those who look back at the 1980s as the golden years, but here we are in 2021 with 1980s pay.
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I really don't understand the motivation of all those on here attacking UAV, he is spreading nothing but facts, and is desperately trying to warn people from falling into the death trap that is the RYR cadet scheme. There is nothing waiting for you lot here after line training apart from a toxic work atmosphere, financial struggles, a base far, far away from home and all the associated mental health issues.
BALPA recently surveyed its RYR member on said mental health. in which:
92% felt that the company contributed to a reduction in their wellbeing
98,2% has concerns about the overall well being of staff
64% reported to duty while feeling unfit to do so, because they couldn't afford not too.
22,9% said in the past months their operational safety- decision making was compromised by commercial pressure.
How about that for facts.
This is not normal, this company and its "management" are not normal. They are playing a very high risk game with a lot of peoples lives, it really is a matter of time before we see some serious accidents/incidents on line because people are just so worn out, or god forbid, we see some GW9525 type of accident.
I ask you, look again at those percentages, and ask yourself again, does this seem like a company you want to work for, let alone for that atrocious 'salary'?
I can promise you, though it won't reflect on your instagram timeline, its a lot less fun being at work when every other week you have some cabin crew crying in the back because they haven't been paid, again. In one of the UK bases CC went to their manager to complain that their current salary (while working 90hrs a month) could not cover their fixed living expensed, rent, insurance, food etc. You know what their manager replied?, "have you considered staying at a host family".
A prime example how these deranged "people" at HQ view their employees who work their arse of day in day out.
I said it before and I'll say it again, do NOT fall into the trap of joining RYR, but if you must, please share us your experience after a year or so in the company, prove us wrong.
BALPA recently surveyed its RYR member on said mental health. in which:
92% felt that the company contributed to a reduction in their wellbeing
98,2% has concerns about the overall well being of staff
64% reported to duty while feeling unfit to do so, because they couldn't afford not too.
22,9% said in the past months their operational safety- decision making was compromised by commercial pressure.
How about that for facts.
This is not normal, this company and its "management" are not normal. They are playing a very high risk game with a lot of peoples lives, it really is a matter of time before we see some serious accidents/incidents on line because people are just so worn out, or god forbid, we see some GW9525 type of accident.
I ask you, look again at those percentages, and ask yourself again, does this seem like a company you want to work for, let alone for that atrocious 'salary'?
I can promise you, though it won't reflect on your instagram timeline, its a lot less fun being at work when every other week you have some cabin crew crying in the back because they haven't been paid, again. In one of the UK bases CC went to their manager to complain that their current salary (while working 90hrs a month) could not cover their fixed living expensed, rent, insurance, food etc. You know what their manager replied?, "have you considered staying at a host family".
A prime example how these deranged "people" at HQ view their employees who work their arse of day in day out.
I said it before and I'll say it again, do NOT fall into the trap of joining RYR, but if you must, please share us your experience after a year or so in the company, prove us wrong.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Latest ECA survey out, ranks Ryr in the second to last bracket of employer social matrix.
It is terrible for a company this size, the rotten DNA and culture.
They are falling 100% down the same trap Boeing themselves did over the last 20 years, the unrelenting focus on share performance, enhancing their own wealth, spending the companies money on buying back shares therefore increasing their own wealth even further.
It is almost a play for play for the exact same failures in corporate mis-management. Even to the point where Boeing infiltrated the FAA, the new boss of the IAA is an ex-fr executive.
Many of us are really scared that we are skating on thin ice until something really bad happens.
Only 2 weeks ago a crew maydayed and diverted for a hydraulic leak, turned out they just turned off the hydraulics instead of anti ice…They are not the first to have misplaced these switches which are an ergonomic nightmare, but they are probably the first I have heard of to progress this far along the tree of the failure.
It is terrible for a company this size, the rotten DNA and culture.
They are falling 100% down the same trap Boeing themselves did over the last 20 years, the unrelenting focus on share performance, enhancing their own wealth, spending the companies money on buying back shares therefore increasing their own wealth even further.
It is almost a play for play for the exact same failures in corporate mis-management. Even to the point where Boeing infiltrated the FAA, the new boss of the IAA is an ex-fr executive.
Many of us are really scared that we are skating on thin ice until something really bad happens.
Only 2 weeks ago a crew maydayed and diverted for a hydraulic leak, turned out they just turned off the hydraulics instead of anti ice…They are not the first to have misplaced these switches which are an ergonomic nightmare, but they are probably the first I have heard of to progress this far along the tree of the failure.
Many of us are really scared that we are skating on thin ice until something really bad happens.
Only 2 weeks ago a crew maydayed and diverted for a hydraulic leak, turned out they just turned off the hydraulics instead of anti ice…They are not the first to have misplaced these switches which are an ergonomic nightmare, but they are probably the first I have heard of to progress this far along the tree of the failure.
Only 2 weeks ago a crew maydayed and diverted for a hydraulic leak, turned out they just turned off the hydraulics instead of anti ice…They are not the first to have misplaced these switches which are an ergonomic nightmare, but they are probably the first I have heard of to progress this far along the tree of the failure.
It is certainty easy to miss switches on the 737 overhead, heck it was the same on the 727 as well!! What us old timers were taught and do was to look, make sure then select and make sure we get the result we wanted.
This seems like the crew were overloaded to me, stressed and rushed.
They should have had he mental capacity to check the result of their action and the overhead, this seems more a failure of the system rather than the crew involved, I have seen some interesting things when conducting LPC's for ex ryanair pilots who have been through their cadet program, it seems to me they are always under pressure to rush, not a very good situation to be in.
If so the whole training department needs looking at, I voiced concerns when I was involved several years ago and all fell on deaf ears.
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Ok I’m not at Ryanair but giving another point of view.
I never paid for a TR. Rated on a TP over 20T. Haven’t flown since the pandemic hit and not a hint of even an interview until very recently. 3000 TP hrs mean nothing!!! My mate paid for his 737 TR the same time as I started. As soon as he hit 500hrs on type his salary jumped up. ATPL again. When I told him my salaries where I worked he couldn’t believe it. The second year flying his salary was x1.5 of mine doing less hours and third year was double. He also had 3 job offers months ago.
Yes I wish I had paid for a 737 or A320 TR now. Everyone I know who left my company and went to jet have jobs. Most who stayed now don’t. The ones that do are TRE/TRI line trainers etc.
It’s true we shouldn’t be paying for a TR but it’s the industry now. I have learnt that I’m down turns such as these you still get more opportunities. I have been contacted many times but they ask if I have 500 jet hrs. No. Oh sorry bye.
If Ryanair offered me a chance I would take it even now with hours. I am banking on it taking at least another year before the industry picks up again.
Another year of keeping current which costs £2k at least on an unpopular TR.
What is the other option, bond a pilot? Yes however people still leave. I remember a guy leaving us after 9 months. Had to pay £18k for a useless rating for that. Even if you are rated airlines bond you or salary deduct. You starting crunching numbers and between jet airlines there isn’t a massive amount in it. Ryanair is a training airline for the first 2-3 years of your career. Once you have the hours you have the options. If you stay go for command or SFI roles you can get as FO the salaries jump up a lot.
This is just some information from someone who didn’t pay for a TR.
Oh and has a side note. I have spoken to some who started with Ryanair 6-9 months ago on average. Each one told me after base training they started getting paid. Salaries during line training have been between around £2.5k a month after tax. That’s £35-£40k. More than I was on at my previous outfit.
Someone also mentioned about not being able to get a mortgage because it’s not a proper salary. Well I suggest you use a better broker. If you find a good broker they will take a 3 month window of average salaries and can use that as a guide to get you a good mortgage. If you do it yourself then yes they want to know your basic salary.
I never paid for a TR. Rated on a TP over 20T. Haven’t flown since the pandemic hit and not a hint of even an interview until very recently. 3000 TP hrs mean nothing!!! My mate paid for his 737 TR the same time as I started. As soon as he hit 500hrs on type his salary jumped up. ATPL again. When I told him my salaries where I worked he couldn’t believe it. The second year flying his salary was x1.5 of mine doing less hours and third year was double. He also had 3 job offers months ago.
Yes I wish I had paid for a 737 or A320 TR now. Everyone I know who left my company and went to jet have jobs. Most who stayed now don’t. The ones that do are TRE/TRI line trainers etc.
It’s true we shouldn’t be paying for a TR but it’s the industry now. I have learnt that I’m down turns such as these you still get more opportunities. I have been contacted many times but they ask if I have 500 jet hrs. No. Oh sorry bye.
If Ryanair offered me a chance I would take it even now with hours. I am banking on it taking at least another year before the industry picks up again.
Another year of keeping current which costs £2k at least on an unpopular TR.
What is the other option, bond a pilot? Yes however people still leave. I remember a guy leaving us after 9 months. Had to pay £18k for a useless rating for that. Even if you are rated airlines bond you or salary deduct. You starting crunching numbers and between jet airlines there isn’t a massive amount in it. Ryanair is a training airline for the first 2-3 years of your career. Once you have the hours you have the options. If you stay go for command or SFI roles you can get as FO the salaries jump up a lot.
This is just some information from someone who didn’t pay for a TR.
Oh and has a side note. I have spoken to some who started with Ryanair 6-9 months ago on average. Each one told me after base training they started getting paid. Salaries during line training have been between around £2.5k a month after tax. That’s £35-£40k. More than I was on at my previous outfit.
Someone also mentioned about not being able to get a mortgage because it’s not a proper salary. Well I suggest you use a better broker. If you find a good broker they will take a 3 month window of average salaries and can use that as a guide to get you a good mortgage. If you do it yourself then yes they want to know your basic salary.
Ryanair uses you and you use Ryanair as well. You basically pay for a quick career. Quick command, quick LTC, quick TRI, quick TRE. So you will meet 30 year old Ryanair TRI/TRE's who've stuck up with Ryanair's "treatment" but also got a quick career out of it. Once a TRI, always a TRI. On the other hand, the experience is the experience you get: low cost flying in Europe on a 737. But the resume says TRI.
The ones who don't pay, there are other possibilities with a lot longer waiting times. You will be at least 40 before you get a shot at being a 737-style TRI. But in general you probably have an opportunity to experience "other" things, unfortunately these things aren't really "valid" in the world of aviation. SFI isn't as valuable as TRI. Cruise relief captain on intercontinental widebody network isn't as valuable as full left seat.
So when the **** hits the fan, you are either a senior 30 year old widebody first officer looking for a job, or a fresh 30 year old TRI.
I'm not a Ryanair guy by-the-way. I'm just a dude who notices that once inside a company, the 7 year Ryanair-in-Europe career equals or surpasses my 15 year narrow/widebody non-funded-type-ratings career. Not good or bad, just a conclusion. The Ryanair guys/girls I know are a good bunch of people who did what we all tried to do: making a living by doing what we love the most.
So despite all the negativity around the paid type-rating, I would say the return-on-investment is pretty good... (if you have the money.... and the abilities of course)