BA Future Pilot Programme (FPP)(Merged)
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Desert Strip,
FTE assessment is Aptitude, Numerical Reasoning, Verbal Reasoning, Maths, Maths&Physics, then an interview. You will do all of the assessments regardless of performance in each part.
FTE assessment is Aptitude, Numerical Reasoning, Verbal Reasoning, Maths, Maths&Physics, then an interview. You will do all of the assessments regardless of performance in each part.
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Thanks - much appreciated. I'm going along but I must say this is a sure sign of major deterioration in T's & C's:
"The year 1 basic salary for a Future Pilot Programme first officer is £22,000, with a further £8-£10,000 of flying allowances typically being earned in a full year of flying (please note that these allowances are not guaranteed and are subject to levels and type of flying completed). Remember that as well as pay and allowances, British Airways will pay you back your security bond, tax–free, at the rate of £12,000 per year for the first seven years of your employment as a pilot."
If successful this will result in 18 months lost salary, interest payments on the loan and/or lost interest on the £84k bond which BA do not seem to inflate over the 7 year repayment. £32k max starting salary to take on all this risk with an economy on a knife edge and I'm sure a tube driver gets more!! How times have changed......?!?!?! I must be mad.
"The year 1 basic salary for a Future Pilot Programme first officer is £22,000, with a further £8-£10,000 of flying allowances typically being earned in a full year of flying (please note that these allowances are not guaranteed and are subject to levels and type of flying completed). Remember that as well as pay and allowances, British Airways will pay you back your security bond, tax–free, at the rate of £12,000 per year for the first seven years of your employment as a pilot."
If successful this will result in 18 months lost salary, interest payments on the loan and/or lost interest on the £84k bond which BA do not seem to inflate over the 7 year repayment. £32k max starting salary to take on all this risk with an economy on a knife edge and I'm sure a tube driver gets more!! How times have changed......?!?!?! I must be mad.
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ExMilRedundancy
Tthere is a great deal of competition for these places and people should not be giving advice or information on anything that will give the next guy an advantage over you, but the information you are giving here is bog standard available to anyone who looks, in detail, at the website for their chosen fto. Surely if they are serious about taking up such an amazing opportunity, they should at least have the intelligence to look up this information for themselves! Anyone who has applied here has access to the same information. Look it up for yourselves, don't expect everything to be handed on a plate to you!
Tthere is a great deal of competition for these places and people should not be giving advice or information on anything that will give the next guy an advantage over you, but the information you are giving here is bog standard available to anyone who looks, in detail, at the website for their chosen fto. Surely if they are serious about taking up such an amazing opportunity, they should at least have the intelligence to look up this information for themselves! Anyone who has applied here has access to the same information. Look it up for yourselves, don't expect everything to be handed on a plate to you!
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likeflight,
The information I put in there is exactly the same as is given in the invitation email. I was just trying to say that one has to complete all of the exercises with FTE unlike the CTC process whereby if you aren't good enough in the aptitude and Group Ex then you will not be asked to interview and the similar situation with OAA. Even though I completely disagree with the way that OAA are doing the assessments. ie you have to be awesome at the aptitude and if you have an average aptitude you literally have no opportunity to show how you work in a group and interact with a human. But that is another discussion.
The information I put in there is exactly the same as is given in the invitation email. I was just trying to say that one has to complete all of the exercises with FTE unlike the CTC process whereby if you aren't good enough in the aptitude and Group Ex then you will not be asked to interview and the similar situation with OAA. Even though I completely disagree with the way that OAA are doing the assessments. ie you have to be awesome at the aptitude and if you have an average aptitude you literally have no opportunity to show how you work in a group and interact with a human. But that is another discussion.
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My apologies - just looked again and the Pilot Aptitude Testing and interview are clearly stated, though as they're separated and due to some posts earlier in this thread I wasn't sure if the Pilot Aptitude testing and interview was on a 2nd day (ie the complete FTE process was listed). I presume the second day is just group exercises then (though I'd assumed this would have been during the session at BA if put forward for final selection).
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FTE don't have a group exercise. I expect the BA assessment day will be similar to their standard DEP/SSP day with group ex, presentation etc. But someone earlier in the thread said they have something special in store. Goodness knows what will face those that get through. No doubt all will be revealed.
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Ok, e-mail recieved stating i did not reach the required score in the aptitude test.
Hard to swollow but for every winner there are many loosers, so i guess it'll just make me appreciate it even more if and when my time comes.
Considering i live in a country where fairness is a mith, i am glad to know that my failure means others who really diserve it more than me are still living this particular dream, and not because they know someone in the high ranks (that's how it tends to be in Italy.)
Having said that and wishing the very best of luck to those who made it through, i have an enquiry.
The e-mail i recieved stated that although i did not reach the minimum BA required score, i may be eligible for the APP or MPL first officer courses..
now before ringing up for enquiring, i understand it would be in there best interest to get me spending more money for further testing and so on, no blame obviously, they're just doing there job!
But i wanted to know.. was this the standard rejection e-mail sent out to those who didn't make it? and most of all, i apologize for my ignorance, but what are the MPL and APP first officer courses?
i understand it proboblay takes just a click on the net to find out, but i'm hoping to find a more sincere reply as i am sure many of you are very well informed.
Hard to swollow but for every winner there are many loosers, so i guess it'll just make me appreciate it even more if and when my time comes.
Considering i live in a country where fairness is a mith, i am glad to know that my failure means others who really diserve it more than me are still living this particular dream, and not because they know someone in the high ranks (that's how it tends to be in Italy.)
Having said that and wishing the very best of luck to those who made it through, i have an enquiry.
The e-mail i recieved stated that although i did not reach the minimum BA required score, i may be eligible for the APP or MPL first officer courses..
now before ringing up for enquiring, i understand it would be in there best interest to get me spending more money for further testing and so on, no blame obviously, they're just doing there job!
But i wanted to know.. was this the standard rejection e-mail sent out to those who didn't make it? and most of all, i apologize for my ignorance, but what are the MPL and APP first officer courses?
i understand it proboblay takes just a click on the net to find out, but i'm hoping to find a more sincere reply as i am sure many of you are very well informed.
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I'm assuming you applied to OAA...
MPL is the easyjet 'sponsored' course. At the end you'll have an MPL licence. Total cost is about 104,000pounds.
APP is the standard ab-initio course.
I suggest you call Oxford. Depending on your results from day one, you'll probably just be invited back to do day two (interview and team assessment) for the APP. Not sure about for MPL.
MPL is the easyjet 'sponsored' course. At the end you'll have an MPL licence. Total cost is about 104,000pounds.
APP is the standard ab-initio course.
I suggest you call Oxford. Depending on your results from day one, you'll probably just be invited back to do day two (interview and team assessment) for the APP. Not sure about for MPL.
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having attended CTC for a BA FPP selection last week, i was confused because CTC gave us a presentation which said BA are gaurantoring all the bonds required for training. Everyone else there on the same day also seemed to think that BA were the ones doing this and didn't seem aware you are meant to secure the loan yourself?
the other candidates i spoke to also thought it was a gauranteed job and you get a contract before training etc....seemed strange that everyone there didn't really know the scheme inside out.
CTC also told us that BA were contractually obliged to take any extra pilots they might need outside of the scheme from ONLY CTC say for example if they underestimate their requirements. is this true?
the other candidates i spoke to also thought it was a gauranteed job and you get a contract before training etc....seemed strange that everyone there didn't really know the scheme inside out.
CTC also told us that BA were contractually obliged to take any extra pilots they might need outside of the scheme from ONLY CTC say for example if they underestimate their requirements. is this true?
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vor-lock - Bad luck, it was a long way to travel for you too. Still, nothing ventured nothing gained. At least you've done part one of the assessment, so that gives you a starting point. Did you receive any feedback as to the value of your score and on which areas your performance was not so strong?
It seems that the FTO's are being very inconsistent in their strategies around handling the interview stages and the responses to the candidates. Certainly something to bear in mind should the unsuccessful candidates decide to self-fund at one or other of the schools. I know which gets my vote for most professional, based on feedback on this thread.
It seems that the FTO's are being very inconsistent in their strategies around handling the interview stages and the responses to the candidates. Certainly something to bear in mind should the unsuccessful candidates decide to self-fund at one or other of the schools. I know which gets my vote for most professional, based on feedback on this thread.
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Also had a rejection from OAA this afternoon. The e-mail is generic - encouraging you to apply for further opportunities with partner airlines or training at OAA.
Would agree about the strategies being inconsistent - however, I don't think the end result will be different. If you didn't get in through one school, don't think you would have got in elsewhere. Although days may have been 'merged' at some schools, the background selection process (probably) would have been much the same.
On a side note, it does seem like one of the schools is placing itself as the "chief partner" to BA in this process. I would only ever interpret this as complete and utter tripe. All schools are on an equal footing and any school pretending to offer anything different should be reprimanded.
Congratulations to all those who have been offered a place at the next stage - best of luck to you all. To those who didn't - there are other opportunities out there, perhaps on not such good terms, but if you want it that much, you CAN get there.
Would agree about the strategies being inconsistent - however, I don't think the end result will be different. If you didn't get in through one school, don't think you would have got in elsewhere. Although days may have been 'merged' at some schools, the background selection process (probably) would have been much the same.
On a side note, it does seem like one of the schools is placing itself as the "chief partner" to BA in this process. I would only ever interpret this as complete and utter tripe. All schools are on an equal footing and any school pretending to offer anything different should be reprimanded.
Congratulations to all those who have been offered a place at the next stage - best of luck to you all. To those who didn't - there are other opportunities out there, perhaps on not such good terms, but if you want it that much, you CAN get there.
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Roger-Wilco, whilst I understand you are trying to be helpful, I would advise you to be careful what you post, even information such as that helps people feel more comfortable before their assessment, particularly your third line, you are potentially giving people who haven't attended assessment an advantage, every candidate should go in unaware of the structure, it's only fair, that is rather detailed information you have posted. On my day we were warned very specifically not to post any information about the day on forums such as these, and if we decided to do so, we risked being disqualified if BA could determine the identity of the poster.
Even if you are not in this selection process, in my opinion you should not be posting such information for such a competitive process.
Even if you are not in this selection process, in my opinion you should not be posting such information for such a competitive process.
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FWJC
No, no feedback but i shall phone and ask as much as i can, i know someone who attended day 1 with me, also got rejected and asked them for his result sheet, i intend to do the same, just to know where i stand!
er 82
yes it was OAA, i'm sorry i forgot to underline it.
I'll take it all the other courses they have going at the moment i would have to fund my self without getting the money back..
No, no feedback but i shall phone and ask as much as i can, i know someone who attended day 1 with me, also got rejected and asked them for his result sheet, i intend to do the same, just to know where i stand!
er 82
yes it was OAA, i'm sorry i forgot to underline it.
I'll take it all the other courses they have going at the moment i would have to fund my self without getting the money back..
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Loan Repayments
Hello All
I have been looking at this scheme with interest.
The pay and loans seem to be baffling me at present. The FPP pay is quoted as all sorts ranging from £22000 to £44000 depending on the posts but that is not such a problem as of course some people are quoting including loan repayments and allowance estimates etc.
The bit that I am having trouble understanding however is the repayments if you borrow money and ask BA to underwrite the loan. In the early wording of the FPP website the question was addressed "what if I don't borrow the money and self fund the course, do i get the extra £1000 a month (£12K a year) as wages instead of it being used to pay my loan for 7 years?" and the early wording made it seem that if you don't borrow the money then you don't get the extra pay. So that would seem that it is a no brainer to borrow the money if you don't get your hands on the repayments anyway, if you don't use the facility.
This then begs the question then would the BA scheme actually be a pretty low paid job? £22K plus perhaps £8-12K allowances depending on flying but nothing more even if you don't use the loan. Are the loan repayments that you cannot get your hands on, actually a cheeky bond to make it difficult to leave? I understand easyjet are paying mid 40K for low hour contract pilots.
The thing is that the wording on the FPP website changed a few weeks later making it now very unclear if you can get your hands on the £12K a year repayments as wages if you choose not to use the loan.
I must point out that I have no option but to ask for the loan if i should apply but I would want to work hard at paying it back early to get it out of the way rather than it dragging on for 7 years. However if the is no incentive to pay it back early (i.e. you don't get a £12K pay boost when it is paid off) then what's the point. Does anyone have any clear information on what the real deal is and if we can benefit from early repayment?
Kind Regards
I have been looking at this scheme with interest.
The pay and loans seem to be baffling me at present. The FPP pay is quoted as all sorts ranging from £22000 to £44000 depending on the posts but that is not such a problem as of course some people are quoting including loan repayments and allowance estimates etc.
The bit that I am having trouble understanding however is the repayments if you borrow money and ask BA to underwrite the loan. In the early wording of the FPP website the question was addressed "what if I don't borrow the money and self fund the course, do i get the extra £1000 a month (£12K a year) as wages instead of it being used to pay my loan for 7 years?" and the early wording made it seem that if you don't borrow the money then you don't get the extra pay. So that would seem that it is a no brainer to borrow the money if you don't get your hands on the repayments anyway, if you don't use the facility.
This then begs the question then would the BA scheme actually be a pretty low paid job? £22K plus perhaps £8-12K allowances depending on flying but nothing more even if you don't use the loan. Are the loan repayments that you cannot get your hands on, actually a cheeky bond to make it difficult to leave? I understand easyjet are paying mid 40K for low hour contract pilots.
The thing is that the wording on the FPP website changed a few weeks later making it now very unclear if you can get your hands on the £12K a year repayments as wages if you choose not to use the loan.
I must point out that I have no option but to ask for the loan if i should apply but I would want to work hard at paying it back early to get it out of the way rather than it dragging on for 7 years. However if the is no incentive to pay it back early (i.e. you don't get a £12K pay boost when it is paid off) then what's the point. Does anyone have any clear information on what the real deal is and if we can benefit from early repayment?
Kind Regards
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I understand easyjet are paying mid 40K for low hour contract pilots.
Whilst CTC and BA may have an arrangement to source any extra FPP numbers, BA are also running a DEP scheme for those already holding an fATPL or higher and required hours to complete a zero time TR( type rating). If BA need numbers immediately it will no doubt be a balancing act between the DEP hold pool, and CTCs extra 'hangers on' who have yet to be placed with another outfit. Who is available faster. It depends.
Airline requirements change as fast as the tides so don't sign up to an FTO just because you think it's the quickest back door entry to BA if rejected from the first year of this scheme. if you are still set on training make sure you go to the FTO you are most comfortable with!! That really is rule number1.
if you attended the OAA and got a rejection stating you may be eligible for the APP or MPL programs, the MPL has to be run in conjunction with an OPS1 operator, an airline. Thus you would most likely be applying for any future EZY course. The APP is simply a fancy branding term (OAA love there branding, they can't live without it!) for a CPL/ IR MCC course or fATPL.
Hope some of that helps.
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Hello All
I have been looking at this scheme with interest.
The pay and loans seem to be baffling me at present. The FPP pay is quoted as all sorts ranging from £22000 to £44000 depending on the posts but that is not such a problem as of course some people are quoting including loan repayments and allowance estimates etc.
The bit that I am having trouble understanding however is the repayments if you borrow money and ask BA to underwrite the loan. In the early wording of the FPP website the question was addressed "what if I don't borrow the money and self fund the course, do i get the extra £1000 a month (£12K a year) as wages instead of it being used to pay my loan for 7 years?" and the early wording made it seem that if you don't borrow the money then you don't get the extra pay. So that would seem that it is a no brainer to borrow the money if you don't get your hands on the repayments anyway, if you don't use the facility.
This then begs the question then would the BA scheme actually be a pretty low paid job? £22K plus perhaps £8-12K allowances depending on flying but nothing more even if you don't use the loan. Are the loan repayments that you cannot get your hands on, actually a cheeky bond to make it difficult to leave? I understand easyjet are paying mid 40K for low hour contract pilots.
The thing is that the wording on the FPP website changed a few weeks later making it now very unclear if you can get your hands on the £12K a year repayments as wages if you choose not to use the loan.
I must point out that I have no option but to ask for the loan if i should apply but I would want to work hard at paying it back early to get it out of the way rather than it dragging on for 7 years. However if the is no incentive to pay it back early (i.e. you don't get a £12K pay boost when it is paid off) then what's the point. Does anyone have any clear information on what the real deal is and if we can benefit from early repayment?
Kind Regards
I have been looking at this scheme with interest.
The pay and loans seem to be baffling me at present. The FPP pay is quoted as all sorts ranging from £22000 to £44000 depending on the posts but that is not such a problem as of course some people are quoting including loan repayments and allowance estimates etc.
The bit that I am having trouble understanding however is the repayments if you borrow money and ask BA to underwrite the loan. In the early wording of the FPP website the question was addressed "what if I don't borrow the money and self fund the course, do i get the extra £1000 a month (£12K a year) as wages instead of it being used to pay my loan for 7 years?" and the early wording made it seem that if you don't borrow the money then you don't get the extra pay. So that would seem that it is a no brainer to borrow the money if you don't get your hands on the repayments anyway, if you don't use the facility.
This then begs the question then would the BA scheme actually be a pretty low paid job? £22K plus perhaps £8-12K allowances depending on flying but nothing more even if you don't use the loan. Are the loan repayments that you cannot get your hands on, actually a cheeky bond to make it difficult to leave? I understand easyjet are paying mid 40K for low hour contract pilots.
The thing is that the wording on the FPP website changed a few weeks later making it now very unclear if you can get your hands on the £12K a year repayments as wages if you choose not to use the loan.
I must point out that I have no option but to ask for the loan if i should apply but I would want to work hard at paying it back early to get it out of the way rather than it dragging on for 7 years. However if the is no incentive to pay it back early (i.e. you don't get a £12K pay boost when it is paid off) then what's the point. Does anyone have any clear information on what the real deal is and if we can benefit from early repayment?
Kind Regards
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@Peter Griffin
As far as I understand it, the £84k bond paid by you is simply a means of covering BA's back to make sure you complete training to their set levels. If you fail training, BA is not out of pocket. If you complete training and go on to work for BA then they pay the £84k bond back over 7 years because its a 'sponsored scheme'.
However you choose to finance the bond is up to you. If you finance it yourself then BA will pay you back the £84k bond so the training is effectively sponsored by BA and you come out with £0 expenditure for training (roughly). If you get a loan, BA pays back the £84k bond as above, but this time you will have accrued interest on the loan you took out so you will have a sizeable expenditure at the end of the 7 years! The £12k per year is a repayment of the training costs (bond), not a repayment of the loan so it is irrelevant as to how you finance the bond, you will always still get £22k starting salary + flying allowances + £12k per year for 7 years. Obviously if you have £84k lying around down the back of your sofa then its better to use it than to get into £1000's in interest over the repayment period by using a loan... but many people (myself included!) will have to use the loan.
Thats how I see it anyway.
Hope this helps.
As far as I understand it, the £84k bond paid by you is simply a means of covering BA's back to make sure you complete training to their set levels. If you fail training, BA is not out of pocket. If you complete training and go on to work for BA then they pay the £84k bond back over 7 years because its a 'sponsored scheme'.
However you choose to finance the bond is up to you. If you finance it yourself then BA will pay you back the £84k bond so the training is effectively sponsored by BA and you come out with £0 expenditure for training (roughly). If you get a loan, BA pays back the £84k bond as above, but this time you will have accrued interest on the loan you took out so you will have a sizeable expenditure at the end of the 7 years! The £12k per year is a repayment of the training costs (bond), not a repayment of the loan so it is irrelevant as to how you finance the bond, you will always still get £22k starting salary + flying allowances + £12k per year for 7 years. Obviously if you have £84k lying around down the back of your sofa then its better to use it than to get into £1000's in interest over the repayment period by using a loan... but many people (myself included!) will have to use the loan.
Thats how I see it anyway.
Hope this helps.