BA Future Pilot Programme (FPP)(Merged)
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Re sponsorship scheme
Well Glover clearly said "regardless of their financial circumstances"...so if they are not willing to take that into consideration, then why call it a sponsorship scheme and why would BA advertise the wrong information.
What I was told by some BA pilots is that they are willing to give a chance to anyone, even those who don't have parents to support them.
I guess we should wait and pass the interview/assessments first, then I'm sure they will give us more advice on the loan situation.
What I was told by some BA pilots is that they are willing to give a chance to anyone, even those who don't have parents to support them.
I guess we should wait and pass the interview/assessments first, then I'm sure they will give us more advice on the loan situation.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Mad jock - it’s not perfect but it’s the best thing out there by a long way, and whilst BA would prefer you to seek security from elsewhere they will ultimately stand behind your loan. Yes, the rate may be higher but they’ll do it (even if reluctantly), which is a damn sight more than any other airline, some of which want paying for an overpriced TR upfront.
To put it in context, there are guys that trained a decade ago did FI, TP work and only now applying for BA DEP, and you will join BA from the word go –saving you ten years and a huge amount of stress.
To put it in context, there are guys that trained a decade ago did FI, TP work and only now applying for BA DEP, and you will join BA from the word go –saving you ten years and a huge amount of stress.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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how will you pay back if BA is out of business tomorrow?
we are very close of a double recession, maybe tomorrow or in 2-3days.
once the crisis start, everything will go down, and BA will just have to close their door. I don't think they have enough assets saved since the last crisis.
Air berlin is the next one, and many airlines will follow! I predict 50% of airlines will go bust if it happen.
if I was you, I would not even apply. BA is dead!
bye bye BA, we wont miss you!
there is no insurance in case of a crisis, as insurance wont have the money to pay back...you schmuck!
12.2012 is coming!!!
we are very close of a double recession, maybe tomorrow or in 2-3days.
once the crisis start, everything will go down, and BA will just have to close their door. I don't think they have enough assets saved since the last crisis.
Air berlin is the next one, and many airlines will follow! I predict 50% of airlines will go bust if it happen.if I was you, I would not even apply. BA is dead!
bye bye BA, we wont miss you!
and if you have BA backing as a guarantor, it would be covered in instances of failure.:
12.2012 is coming!!!
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Apologies if this has been asked before, but what happens if you fail the course or fail to complete it?
Will the loan be quashed, including interest charges incurred, or will it still have to be repaid at least in part or in full?
Will the loan be quashed, including interest charges incurred, or will it still have to be repaid at least in part or in full?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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A view of the posts so far.
These are obviously exciting times for those who aspire to a career with BA - with whom I flew for 35+ years. However, like it or not, wherever BA have set the bar with regard to academic qualifications, they could have set it higher. This is simply a first stage filter in order to exclude the time wasters, but that is their perogative.
Firstly though, read the requirements carefully. If you do not have the minimum as stated your application will not proceed beyond this stage. If you have problems understanding the clearly defined minimum requirements you will certainly have problems passing your ATPL exams first time (RTFQ) - which will be a requirement.
Secondly, I'm afraid that those who are prepared to post comments with mistakes in spelling, grammar and syntax will find that their written submissions on the application form will inevitably mark them down in the eyes of the assessors.
In these days of 'text speak' etc. it is almost too easy to use a similar presentation in all written communications. Your comments and contributions to the forums will carry more weight without a perceived ignorance in the use of upper case or poor grammar and punctuation.
I'm sorry but this is important. So, all you aspiring applicants and posters to the forums, make a start now and I can assure you that your chances of success in the forthcoming 'competition' will be greatly improved.
A wellwisher.
These are obviously exciting times for those who aspire to a career with BA - with whom I flew for 35+ years. However, like it or not, wherever BA have set the bar with regard to academic qualifications, they could have set it higher. This is simply a first stage filter in order to exclude the time wasters, but that is their perogative.
Firstly though, read the requirements carefully. If you do not have the minimum as stated your application will not proceed beyond this stage. If you have problems understanding the clearly defined minimum requirements you will certainly have problems passing your ATPL exams first time (RTFQ) - which will be a requirement.
Secondly, I'm afraid that those who are prepared to post comments with mistakes in spelling, grammar and syntax will find that their written submissions on the application form will inevitably mark them down in the eyes of the assessors.
In these days of 'text speak' etc. it is almost too easy to use a similar presentation in all written communications. Your comments and contributions to the forums will carry more weight without a perceived ignorance in the use of upper case or poor grammar and punctuation.
I'm sorry but this is important. So, all you aspiring applicants and posters to the forums, make a start now and I can assure you that your chances of success in the forthcoming 'competition' will be greatly improved.
A wellwisher.
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Apologies if this has been asked before, but what happens if you fail the course or fail to complete it?
Will the loan be quashed, including interest charges incurred, or will it still have to be repaid at least in part or in full?
Will the loan be quashed, including interest charges incurred, or will it still have to be repaid at least in part or in full?
What if I fail during the ground school phase of training or the foundation flying skills course?
During the Ground School phase of training, or the Foundation Course, you will have benefitted from many of the items provided as part of the Wings programme (for example ground school tuition, accommodation, training materials, uniform, course equipment and air travel).
If we terminate your training during either of these phases or training, depending on the circumstances of this termination you may be entitled to a security bond repayment being the lesser of the security bond deposited to date, reduced by an amount not less than £9,000 (this amount retained being compensation for costs incurred) and £40,000. You will also receive from CTC Aviation Training (NZ) Limited a refund of any unused Foundation Course training that you have paid for.
If we terminate your training during either of these phases or training, depending on the circumstances of this termination you may be entitled to a security bond repayment being the lesser of the security bond deposited to date, reduced by an amount not less than £9,000 (this amount retained being compensation for costs incurred) and £40,000. You will also receive from CTC Aviation Training (NZ) Limited a refund of any unused Foundation Course training that you have paid for.
What happens to me if I change my mind and decide to leave at any point during the training course?
This would result in a termination of contract with you and you could potentially forfeit your bond repayments made up to that time. Additionally you may be exposed to additional costs.
What is my liability for any loan I take to fund my bond?
Whether you provide the bond through bank finance or another source, you will remain liable for the bond. However, on employment with an airline you will benefit from a contracted commitment to repay the bond through monthly repayments over a set period of time as agreed with your sponsor airline as long as you fulfil your employment commitments.
As with all terms, these arrangements can vary depending on the recruiting airline and current requirements.
As with all terms, these arrangements can vary depending on the recruiting airline and current requirements.
Join Date: May 2008
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FINANCE
Hello City chump,
Regarding finance, I do not see the below paragraph at Oxford and FTEJerez finance section... only CTC and BA finance one has it...
Seems to me that OAA and FTEJerez do not work with someone who is NOT able to secure an asset-based loan. Please advice.
Thanks,
Spymell
If you’re not in a position to secure an asset-based loan then you could be eligible for our British Airways guaranteed loan scheme. If this is the case, our partner bank will run a thorough check of your credit history. Should this come back clear and you pass the Future Pilot Programme selection process, British Airways could act as your loan guarantor. You will then be able to borrow the money from our partner bank in order to deposit the required security bond with APL. On any loan there is obviously a percentage of interest charged by the lender, but the British Airways guaranteed loan scheme specifically offers a 24-month holiday period before any loan repayments commence. It should be noted however, that it might be cheaper to secure an asset-based loan either through our partner bank or another lender.
Regarding finance, I do not see the below paragraph at Oxford and FTEJerez finance section... only CTC and BA finance one has it...
Seems to me that OAA and FTEJerez do not work with someone who is NOT able to secure an asset-based loan. Please advice.
Thanks,
Spymell
If you’re not in a position to secure an asset-based loan then you could be eligible for our British Airways guaranteed loan scheme. If this is the case, our partner bank will run a thorough check of your credit history. Should this come back clear and you pass the Future Pilot Programme selection process, British Airways could act as your loan guarantor. You will then be able to borrow the money from our partner bank in order to deposit the required security bond with APL. On any loan there is obviously a percentage of interest charged by the lender, but the British Airways guaranteed loan scheme specifically offers a 24-month holiday period before any loan repayments commence. It should be noted however, that it might be cheaper to secure an asset-based loan either through our partner bank or another lender.
Join Date: May 2004
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-BA work with BBVA and APL for those who cannon put up the £84k
Correct, and APL is a wholly owned subsidiary of....CTC. Which is why FTE and OAA won't include much mention on their websites. And anyone familiar with the CTC scheme (older format pre-2008) will recognise the fianace arrangement. APL has been around a long time and handled all the finance for the various CTC schemes.
To put it into really simple terms:
If you need to take out the loan it will be in your name, unsecured, and you WILL be responsible for paying it off, interest and all. If you commence employment with BA it will be paid back to the bank via a reduced salary for 7years.
If you fail/quit various permutations apply but you will still be liable for much of the loan depending on the stage of training you were at and the circumstances of your leaving.
Cost of living during the training period IS NOT covered by the bond. This will need to be factored in.
The main thing to understand before you go to interview is that it is your responsibility to pay off the loan.
As has been said by a few other contributors, this is the best show in town for many years. The debt is large but managable if you have a job waiting for you at the end of training.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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If you add up all the charges listed on the websites, I reckon you're looking at £90,000 for FTE and £93,000+ for the other two (depending upon the cost of living). That's a lot of money in anyone's language but as long as you pass the course I think it's a great opportunity. I wouldn't want to fail with that debt burden around my neck though!
I note that CTC include the air fares to and from New Zealand but I couldn't see anything on the OAA website about who pays the fares to Phoenix and back.
Blimey, you ain't half making this difficult - if you have the minimum requirements, then apply in the full expectation of passing the course. If you haven't, don't. The academic minima are a coarse sifting process to weed a big chunk of peeps out. You do not need a degree to get a fATPL - at this stage you need to get through the BA selection.
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Am I missing a trick? This is from OAA website for the FPP:
Accommodation during your training at Oxford and Goodyear is provided as part of your training package. You will have a choice of accommodation, subject to availability, and if you elect to live off-campus at Oxford, you will be supported by OAA transport services.
And this is from CTC website:
The items that are specifically included in CTC’s FPP sponsorship package and for which there shall be no charge made to the FPP Cadet are as follows:
• All basic (CPL/IR), intermediate (BAJOC) and advanced (type rating) training fees for ground school, instructor, aircraft and simulator requirements of CTC’s Approved courses.
• All first time flight examination fees
• Shared self catering accommodation during Basic training in Southampton (max 24 weeks)
• Shared self catering accommodation during Basic training in New Zealand (max 33 weeks)
• Shared self catering accommodation during Basic training in Bournemouth (max 8 weeks)
• Full board accommodation during the Intermediate (BAJOC) training (max 4 weeks)
• Bed and Breakfast accommodation for a maximum of 8 weeks during Advanced, type rating training normally in Heathrow
Now I don't know about you but that to me looks like accommodation is included. I know this is not normally the case but I'm assuming they are doing this to keep the cost as similar as possible between all of the schools. They probably can't include food as there are no facilities at CTC or OAA to do this as it is never included in the price.
The only thing extra you have to pay for is Food @ CTC and OAA. And their reduced price goes some way to covering that.
Accommodation during your training at Oxford and Goodyear is provided as part of your training package. You will have a choice of accommodation, subject to availability, and if you elect to live off-campus at Oxford, you will be supported by OAA transport services.
And this is from CTC website:
The items that are specifically included in CTC’s FPP sponsorship package and for which there shall be no charge made to the FPP Cadet are as follows:
• All basic (CPL/IR), intermediate (BAJOC) and advanced (type rating) training fees for ground school, instructor, aircraft and simulator requirements of CTC’s Approved courses.
• All first time flight examination fees
• Shared self catering accommodation during Basic training in Southampton (max 24 weeks)
• Shared self catering accommodation during Basic training in New Zealand (max 33 weeks)
• Shared self catering accommodation during Basic training in Bournemouth (max 8 weeks)
• Full board accommodation during the Intermediate (BAJOC) training (max 4 weeks)
• Bed and Breakfast accommodation for a maximum of 8 weeks during Advanced, type rating training normally in Heathrow
Now I don't know about you but that to me looks like accommodation is included. I know this is not normally the case but I'm assuming they are doing this to keep the cost as similar as possible between all of the schools. They probably can't include food as there are no facilities at CTC or OAA to do this as it is never included in the price.
The only thing extra you have to pay for is Food @ CTC and OAA. And their reduced price goes some way to covering that.
Join Date: Mar 2011
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In all honesty the prices aren't that different. The differences we are talking about are minor and really only boils down to food. Even then the extra cost over FTE is small. I think the most important things to look at when choosing which school are location, surroundings, staff and equipment. In comparison to these, price should be at the bottom of the list as they are very comparable.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I costed all the options at around £94,000 including food drink transport medical and beer. Not enough in it to make cost be a factor, but FTE was maybe a grand cheaper - depends how often you visit the "gentlemen's club" down road, ahem!
I think all the schools are very good at training and have their own USPs. For me FTE wins it as I like the idea of all schooling being in one location and truly integrated, but that is a personal preference. I have visited all the schools and I recommend you do the same to get a feel for the place, I found the atmosphere quite different at each.
For numbers I read from different press releases that each school are aiming to train 30 FPPs per year.
I think all the schools are very good at training and have their own USPs. For me FTE wins it as I like the idea of all schooling being in one location and truly integrated, but that is a personal preference. I have visited all the schools and I recommend you do the same to get a feel for the place, I found the atmosphere quite different at each.
For numbers I read from different press releases that each school are aiming to train 30 FPPs per year.
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At the end of the day the relative difference in cost between the three FTOs is small, maybe a 3 grand difference. My issue is that living costs aren't included, to some 5 grand a year for living costs is affordable but to others it is out of the question given the fact that this is going to have to be personally funded without any aid from BA as far as I'm aware.
Whether or not there is any type of loan available to cover this cost is a different matter and if there is it may sweeten the deal a bit but I think FTE remains by far the most affordable simply for the fact that they give you three meals a day included in the £84,000.
If I have missed something please correct me because I would like it to be that people could choose the school based on training standards and personal preference rather than an inconvenient extra cost.
Whether or not there is any type of loan available to cover this cost is a different matter and if there is it may sweeten the deal a bit but I think FTE remains by far the most affordable simply for the fact that they give you three meals a day included in the £84,000.
If I have missed something please correct me because I would like it to be that people could choose the school based on training standards and personal preference rather than an inconvenient extra cost.
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Thought this might help if the BA scheme through CTC is similar to how things were during my time with CTC.
Loan of £60k was available for the full cost of training. A foundation course cost circa £5k and you could have that on top of the £60k if you wished. In addition for those that had no financial assets you could also get a loan of £10k to cover living costs.
So 1 loan of £65k and 1 loan of £10k if you needed it. This was when the course was covered by HSBC and I've no idea what BBVA do in terms of financing but if BA are willing to provide the security then I see no reason why you can't do something similar.
Yes I know prices (not costs!) are different now but you get the idea. Good luck to everyone
Loan of £60k was available for the full cost of training. A foundation course cost circa £5k and you could have that on top of the £60k if you wished. In addition for those that had no financial assets you could also get a loan of £10k to cover living costs.
So 1 loan of £65k and 1 loan of £10k if you needed it. This was when the course was covered by HSBC and I've no idea what BBVA do in terms of financing but if BA are willing to provide the security then I see no reason why you can't do something similar.
Yes I know prices (not costs!) are different now but you get the idea. Good luck to everyone
Join Date: Mar 2011
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@Lander66
I'm inclined to think that part of the £3000 more than CTC/OAA you have to pay at FTE up front goes some way to covering the cost of food. Secondly, BBVA allow you to take an extra sum as part of the loan to cover living expenses. Obviously this would have to come from your salary once you get the job but it means you do not have to stump up the cost yourself in the initial stages. If you would struggle to find the money over the year and a half period, surely you may well struggle to find the extra £3000 that you have to pay extra before you even start the course?
I'm inclined to think that part of the £3000 more than CTC/OAA you have to pay at FTE up front goes some way to covering the cost of food. Secondly, BBVA allow you to take an extra sum as part of the loan to cover living expenses. Obviously this would have to come from your salary once you get the job but it means you do not have to stump up the cost yourself in the initial stages. If you would struggle to find the money over the year and a half period, surely you may well struggle to find the extra £3000 that you have to pay extra before you even start the course?
To anyone who is considering applying, having already done a skill assessment at Oxford, BA require a Compass Test result of 32 or above as another requirement to help filter down the numbers.
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ExMilRedundancy
I was unaware that FTE was initially that much more expensive. Way back in the thread somebody did a cost calculation factoring everything in and FTE turned out to be £3000 cheaper. That's good if you can get a extra lump on the loan for living expenses, with a fairly secure job offer, the loan doesn't seem risky. Of course there are any number of unforeseen circumstances to consider. Thanks for the reply.
I was unaware that FTE was initially that much more expensive. Way back in the thread somebody did a cost calculation factoring everything in and FTE turned out to be £3000 cheaper. That's good if you can get a extra lump on the loan for living expenses, with a fairly secure job offer, the loan doesn't seem risky. Of course there are any number of unforeseen circumstances to consider. Thanks for the reply.