So where are all the jobs then?
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Never Give Up
Hey....Never Give Up Guys.....
The Electric Bulb was found after more than 1000 + attempts...
I personally come from a network background where ive known people getting their certification on the 16th-18th attempt....
The Electric Bulb was found after more than 1000 + attempts...
I personally come from a network background where ive known people getting their certification on the 16th-18th attempt....
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Pay as you go
I've always wanted to be a pilot, like most people who decide to spend the absurd amount of money on training in the first place. If I might make a suggestion: pay for the flight training as you go instead of getting a loan at 10 or 12 or 14% (what they offered me). I have been flying for about 18 months and have obtained a PPL and IR without taking on any debt.
It's an option is all I'm saying. I was working job making alright money before I took an administrative position at a flight school along with a pay cut. But, it has enabled me to work toward my goal. And all of the free ground instruction does not hurt.
If you can stick it out for a couple of years without a loan, go for it. Flight instructing won't be as brutal if you don't have to fork over every paycheck to some greedy lender.
It's an option is all I'm saying. I was working job making alright money before I took an administrative position at a flight school along with a pay cut. But, it has enabled me to work toward my goal. And all of the free ground instruction does not hurt.
If you can stick it out for a couple of years without a loan, go for it. Flight instructing won't be as brutal if you don't have to fork over every paycheck to some greedy lender.
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agencies
most of the pilots checking:
flightglobal.com
ppn
aviation4you
ppn
or others. ckeck google for "pilot jobs"
flightglobal.com
ppn
aviation4you
ppn
or others. ckeck google for "pilot jobs"
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hey, where did all the jobs go ?
I've been flying since 10 years now and professionally for about 6. 4000 hours TT out of which 3000 on twin turboprops, more than half as PIC. I had the FAA licence and all my friends kept telling me to get my JAR licence as I am European. So I did and after a long time studying finally yanked a JAR license out of their hands in February this year.
Now where did all those jobs go ? I look up in the sky and there are still airplanes flying !
I am willing to pay for a typerating on a B737, A320 or ATR if I can be guaranteed to get a job in Europe. But where ? Anybody knows ? You may PM me with info on this.
Now where did all those jobs go ? I look up in the sky and there are still airplanes flying !
I am willing to pay for a typerating on a B737, A320 or ATR if I can be guaranteed to get a job in Europe. But where ? Anybody knows ? You may PM me with info on this.
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if I can be guaranteed a job in Europe
xxx
My recommendation, if you want time in 737, book yourself on Ryanair. As a passenger of course. Passengers pay much less for "flight time" than RHS F/O trainees. Suggestion, empty your bladder before flight. Quite expensive to indulge in nature necessities on Ryanair...
The Airlines are not every thing many professional jobs exist,... but not on jets.
if you have another career and you're appropriately rated then you can be a professional pilot,...CFI, banners, Airtaxi, part 91 OPS, glider towing, Tour rides, Parachute jumps, all have merit; all offer great flying!!!!
You have to learn to look at that rusty ol'---- E-18, Apache, KingAir, C-182, etc..... and say that's a 'nice plane'
or Fly the T7 on MSFS
[don't do that
]
if you have another career and you're appropriately rated then you can be a professional pilot,...CFI, banners, Airtaxi, part 91 OPS, glider towing, Tour rides, Parachute jumps, all have merit; all offer great flying!!!!
You have to learn to look at that rusty ol'---- E-18, Apache, KingAir, C-182, etc..... and say that's a 'nice plane'
or Fly the T7 on MSFS
[don't do that]
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Yes, you guys are right on that one, not too many jobs out there. What I didn't convey clearly in my previous post was that I was willing to PAY for one of those ratings if I had to (and I think I'd have to these days however much I'd hate to do that), but I am also actively looking for ANY (or almost any) flying job in Western Europe that will keep some money flow, and I am surprised that with 4000 TT and 3000 twin turbine and lots of PIC time I am not able to find anything. I'm not giving up, but it makes me wonder what hope does a 200 hour pilot have these days !
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If you are thinking of becoming a pilot, you should also consider costing an additional 20-30k for a type rating. Although there are many who will hate this idea, you will very quickly come to the realisation that there are only a handful of jobs and hundreds, if not thousands, of people are out there with around 250 hours and a CPL/IR qualification. Paying for a rating is here to stay, so just deal with it.
When you do your ATPL exams, there are usually a couple of hundred people sitting them each month. So imagine how much competiton that creates. So, if you were an airline recruiter, you will go for people with more hours, or people more recently qualified. If you cannot find a job, do an instructor rating. That way you get to build hours, gain experience and slowly emerge from the massive pool of people with 250 hours complaining that they cannot find a job. If you're smart, you would do an instructor rating before an IR in the current job climate. That way you can build hours and you won't have to pay for an IR revelidation a year later. Just make sure you get an IR before the ATPL period of validation expires.
Also be reallistic! Harsh, I know, but the shortage of pilots refers to a shortage of suitably qualified people, with experience. 250 hours is not a lot of experience, so consider becoming an instructor to get that experience. This often leads onto other things, like air taxi, or meeting people through the flight schools. The transition from twin prop to Jet is huge, so don't get upset if those operators simply ignore you. They get dozens of CVs every day, so simply don't respond. It takes some people years to get to where they want to be!..so in the mean time just keep flying and get yourself away from the huge group of people in the 250'ish hour bracket.
When you do your ATPL exams, there are usually a couple of hundred people sitting them each month. So imagine how much competiton that creates. So, if you were an airline recruiter, you will go for people with more hours, or people more recently qualified. If you cannot find a job, do an instructor rating. That way you get to build hours, gain experience and slowly emerge from the massive pool of people with 250 hours complaining that they cannot find a job. If you're smart, you would do an instructor rating before an IR in the current job climate. That way you can build hours and you won't have to pay for an IR revelidation a year later. Just make sure you get an IR before the ATPL period of validation expires.
Also be reallistic! Harsh, I know, but the shortage of pilots refers to a shortage of suitably qualified people, with experience. 250 hours is not a lot of experience, so consider becoming an instructor to get that experience. This often leads onto other things, like air taxi, or meeting people through the flight schools. The transition from twin prop to Jet is huge, so don't get upset if those operators simply ignore you. They get dozens of CVs every day, so simply don't respond. It takes some people years to get to where they want to be!..so in the mean time just keep flying and get yourself away from the huge group of people in the 250'ish hour bracket.
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IT2Pilot Some good advice, however, don't always assume that the only way to get a job is paying for the standard 737/757/A320 type ratings which does cost the earth. I was so against paying for it when I qualified and still am, but unfortunately in todays climate and also in previous years it was very difficult to actually get a job.
I paid for a corporate jet type rating in the end which cost me £10000 - still expensive, but totally worth it in the scheme of things. I am fortunately employed by a great company and get to fly at the same speed as the airlines, fly upto FL450 and have also flown to so many airports over europe and nth africa, including the main airports such as Heathrow, Amsterdam, Munich etc etc.
I got my job with only 250 hours behind me, and yes, it took me nearly 5 years because of the repoccutions from September 11th that left many people unemployed with loads of flying hours. We are now hitting an even harder time in the market so to the people who are still actively looking, please stay patient. The Market will pick up. There are a lot of people who are in the same boat i.e. with 250 hours behind them but the one thing I will say and I am sure you have heard this many-a-times before is NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK. This is so important.
I didn't have the best grades from Flight School, I actually had to retake some of the exams 3/4 times...I hated them but persisted. I didn't get the best of reports from the flight school for my ATPL ground school. I renewed my IR every year but didn't fly during this time as I couldn't afford to spend, well, couldn't see the point in spending £200-£300 per month on a couple of hours here and there in a PA28. Although I left the industry for some time so I could try to make some money elsewhere, I persisted. I never gave up.
Spend some time at your local aiports, keep in touch with people who are employed now (but don't pester them!!) you never know just whats around the corner or who will be able to help you!!
If you really want it to happen it will.
I paid for a corporate jet type rating in the end which cost me £10000 - still expensive, but totally worth it in the scheme of things. I am fortunately employed by a great company and get to fly at the same speed as the airlines, fly upto FL450 and have also flown to so many airports over europe and nth africa, including the main airports such as Heathrow, Amsterdam, Munich etc etc.
I got my job with only 250 hours behind me, and yes, it took me nearly 5 years because of the repoccutions from September 11th that left many people unemployed with loads of flying hours. We are now hitting an even harder time in the market so to the people who are still actively looking, please stay patient. The Market will pick up. There are a lot of people who are in the same boat i.e. with 250 hours behind them but the one thing I will say and I am sure you have heard this many-a-times before is NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK. This is so important.
I didn't have the best grades from Flight School, I actually had to retake some of the exams 3/4 times...I hated them but persisted. I didn't get the best of reports from the flight school for my ATPL ground school. I renewed my IR every year but didn't fly during this time as I couldn't afford to spend, well, couldn't see the point in spending £200-£300 per month on a couple of hours here and there in a PA28. Although I left the industry for some time so I could try to make some money elsewhere, I persisted. I never gave up.
Spend some time at your local aiports, keep in touch with people who are employed now (but don't pester them!!) you never know just whats around the corner or who will be able to help you!!
If you really want it to happen it will.
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am I mad?
gents im about to embark on a integrated course. going to cost me a fourtune. I must be mad. im hoping in a years time the current climate will have improved and airlines are looking for young guns
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Dream on bunnyhop
Sorry to ruin your day but in 1 year's time I suspect things to be even worse than now.
Read everything WWW has been saying in this thread.
Also as I've said before even if there is an upturn in a year's time it's going to take another year at least for all the experienced pilots to be vacuumed up.
Good luck on the course though, and keep your chin up
Sorry to ruin your day but in 1 year's time I suspect things to be even worse than now.
Read everything WWW has been saying in this thread.
Also as I've said before even if there is an upturn in a year's time it's going to take another year at least for all the experienced pilots to be vacuumed up.
Good luck on the course though, and keep your chin up
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deano
Im having sleepless nights about all this. ive been reading this and other threads and i am concerned to say the least. how long is a faptl active for if you dont get a job after training??
Im having sleepless nights about all this. ive been reading this and other threads and i am concerned to say the least. how long is a faptl active for if you dont get a job after training??
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Someone who actually knows will correct me if I am wrong but I think your ATPL exams are valid for 7 years after the last one is complete provided you keep your IR current?
On a brighter note bunnyhop the best thing to do when you finish is to try and stay in aviation and keep current, think about an FI rating provided there is a job etc. It's a scary time for low houred wannabes and will continue to be for some time yet.
It's going to be a long hard road mate, be prepared.
On a brighter note bunnyhop the best thing to do when you finish is to try and stay in aviation and keep current, think about an FI rating provided there is a job etc. It's a scary time for low houred wannabes and will continue to be for some time yet.
It's going to be a long hard road mate, be prepared.
Educated Hillbilly
Just to clarify atpl credits are valid for seven years every time you renew or revalidate an IR, not from the date of the exams. But also remember that if someone exceeds five years without renewing an IR, then the renewal must then be taken with a caa staff examiner , so to be safe renew the I/R within five years.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 17th Mar 2009 at 21:14.