So where are all the jobs then?
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Vito
Keep your head up and press on.
Back in 91' I flight instructed full time for 2 years while working for a commuter airline in southern Minnesota. During that time, I had the same feelings as you do now.
After two years of instructing, got a job with a commuter as a FO on a Beech 1900 with 1300TT.
Now, Im flying as a Capt. on a Citation XL for a local corporation for the last ten years.
Keep the Faith. It can be done.
Keep your head up and press on.
Back in 91' I flight instructed full time for 2 years while working for a commuter airline in southern Minnesota. During that time, I had the same feelings as you do now.
After two years of instructing, got a job with a commuter as a FO on a Beech 1900 with 1300TT.
Now, Im flying as a Capt. on a Citation XL for a local corporation for the last ten years.
Keep the Faith. It can be done.
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My theory
First post on this forum, so hello to everybody 
So - here is my theory:
It's very loud now about the fuel prices, and airline difficulties, and maybe all of you are right. But one day this will finish, and and business will go back on its path - good path for us - pilots. At the end of the day - can you imagine, that world will go back to the ships swimming between Europe and America? I don't think so - the planes will stay, and there always will be a need to recruit a pilots.
Now i can see how excellent decision was made by Flaby buying Dash8's with it's excellend fuel economy. The same is with ATR's.
Right now I'm owner of brand new PPL, and planning to strart my ATPL course in October, and ... I HAVE TO belive in my theory, otherwise I'll give up - and i don't want to!
So - here is my theory:
It's very loud now about the fuel prices, and airline difficulties, and maybe all of you are right. But one day this will finish, and and business will go back on its path - good path for us - pilots. At the end of the day - can you imagine, that world will go back to the ships swimming between Europe and America? I don't think so - the planes will stay, and there always will be a need to recruit a pilots.
Now i can see how excellent decision was made by Flaby buying Dash8's with it's excellend fuel economy. The same is with ATR's.
Right now I'm owner of brand new PPL, and planning to strart my ATPL course in October, and ... I HAVE TO belive in my theory, otherwise I'll give up - and i don't want to!
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History
Someone said to Learn form HISTORY.
I have been in aviation for a bit more than a decade and I already have seen one full cycle. It will get back to good times like 2 years ago.
The question is.... Are the ridges and valleys getting smaller?
This is an international Forum and due to the requirement of countries (governments) of having the legal right to be employ, sometimes people think they are talking about the same thing and they are not.
You can not compare an EU member (where now is Fu
ed) with a USA member (where now you get paid peanuts, but there is plenty of jobs) to a Third world country (where if you have the license,you have a job), to people with time in Types, etc.This is a great thread but to the new guys probably does not make any sense due to the above mention causes.
And when I said a job, I mean, you move a plane between (normally) airports and at the end of the month they PAY YOU.
I DO NOT MEAN AIRLINE JOBS ONLY (like some)
Good luck and always look at least you know the market!
I have been in aviation for a bit more than a decade and I already have seen one full cycle. It will get back to good times like 2 years ago.
The question is.... Are the ridges and valleys getting smaller?
This is an international Forum and due to the requirement of countries (governments) of having the legal right to be employ, sometimes people think they are talking about the same thing and they are not.
You can not compare an EU member (where now is Fu
ed) with a USA member (where now you get paid peanuts, but there is plenty of jobs) to a Third world country (where if you have the license,you have a job), to people with time in Types, etc.This is a great thread but to the new guys probably does not make any sense due to the above mention causes.And when I said a job, I mean, you move a plane between (normally) airports and at the end of the month they PAY YOU.
I DO NOT MEAN AIRLINE JOBS ONLY (like some)
Good luck and always look at least you know the market!
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great post always moving!!!
I really can't wait to shoot out CVs to corporate outfits and airlines. If they take me on, lovely. Of course!!!
If not, off to Africa I am. You only live once me thinks, surely a good (interesting?) experience
What you forget (but should realize at the first glimpse!!!) is that these outfits DO NOT TAKE low timers.
I keep hearing that airlines are looking for pilots anyway. That's true, but they don't want low-time f/o's, they WANT CAPTAINS.
Surely anybody with 2-3k TT can wander off to the sand pit and get a job there, but you can't seriously think they'll take you on their new 330's or 777's with 500TT
If not, off to Africa I am. You only live once me thinks, surely a good (interesting?) experience
agree this winter will be tough in most parts of the world, but was looking at Airline Pilot Jobs - Jobs for Pilots Flight Deck Jobs Flight Crew Vacancies Worldwide and there still seem to be a fair few of the middle eastern airlinesthat are actively recruiting and not showing any signs of cancelling orders for new aircraft.
Emirates, Gulf, Qatar, etihad etc all on there....No UK carriers though!
Emirates, Gulf, Qatar, etihad etc all on there....No UK carriers though!
I keep hearing that airlines are looking for pilots anyway. That's true, but they don't want low-time f/o's, they WANT CAPTAINS.
Surely anybody with 2-3k TT can wander off to the sand pit and get a job there, but you can't seriously think they'll take you on their new 330's or 777's with 500TT
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Job opportunity in Congo is for pilots !
Very sadly, the opportunity offered in Congo was withdrawn without asking for any precision. I would like to point out that every company in Africa is not using you like toilet paper ! Some companies are serious, working for european and american clients who are not willing to let their employees/clients fly with flying coffins. Those companies are more than often evaluted by american and europeans auditors who are very fast to withdraw a contract to a company not fullfilling their requirements. The company searching for captains B100/B200 is one of the more serious and more concerned with security I know in Africa. Denying the right to any pilot to juge by himself due to stories dating 20 years or more is not fair (at least).
I personnaly started my carreer 30 years ago in Kinshasa and yes, those flying coffins were very common and nearly the rule. Nowadays, there are real airlines and air taxi companies working hard to meet europeans and americans criterias. Be sure you are missing a real opportunity to get experience on a nice aircraft and working with a nice team. But maybe now, young pilots want to start their carreer on at least an A330, accepting maybe a F/O seat temporarily ? Where is the pilot spirit gone ?
We wish all the starters success with their carreers.
I personnaly started my carreer 30 years ago in Kinshasa and yes, those flying coffins were very common and nearly the rule. Nowadays, there are real airlines and air taxi companies working hard to meet europeans and americans criterias. Be sure you are missing a real opportunity to get experience on a nice aircraft and working with a nice team. But maybe now, young pilots want to start their carreer on at least an A330, accepting maybe a F/O seat temporarily ? Where is the pilot spirit gone ?
We wish all the starters success with their carreers.
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Hear hear !!! I spent my life savings while working as an instructor being paid pittance, but things are now starting to look up.... Being recognized for my efforts now with a healthy pay and the prospect of jet time.. So far its taken me 3 years to get here and I have about 20hrs multi. I know about hard work !!!!
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Taken a friend of mine five years Instructing and 1700 hours to get a job. Now the offers are coming in thick and fast for him.
There is a lot to be said for the FI/Air Taxi apprenticeship route.
There is a lot to be said for the FI/Air Taxi apprenticeship route.
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Well..
It's a matter of who you now...no offense..
I have 2200 hrs, 2100 PIC,1000 multi, 1800 as flight instructor!
Hold FAA and JAA CPL ATPL frozen, CFI-CFII-MEI
1st class medicals FAA-JAA...still...no jobs..
all I did was working at the edge of visa extensions in the us..
A buddy of mine, had 300TT and paid for his TR..he is working for Ryanair now..his brother in law works in training (for ryan)...
1: who you know
2: money to spend in TR's
...
112230904: skill
That's Europe...
No meritocracy at all...just friends and hand shakes!
I have 2200 hrs, 2100 PIC,1000 multi, 1800 as flight instructor!
Hold FAA and JAA CPL ATPL frozen, CFI-CFII-MEI
1st class medicals FAA-JAA...still...no jobs..
all I did was working at the edge of visa extensions in the us..
A buddy of mine, had 300TT and paid for his TR..he is working for Ryanair now..his brother in law works in training (for ryan)...
1: who you know
2: money to spend in TR's
...
112230904: skill
That's Europe...
No meritocracy at all...just friends and hand shakes!
That's Europe...
No meritocracy at all...just friends and hand shakes!
No meritocracy at all...just friends and hand shakes!
Having worked and lived in Italy for some time I became aware that nepotism is a problem there in all walks of life....as for the whole of Europe I'm not sure.................
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airline
That's Europe...
No meritocracy at all...just friends and hand shakes!
No meritocracy at all...just friends and hand shakes!
i know guys who were hired by majors as FO on large jets with low hours (but they killed later themselves in light single airplanes because of basic errors, which says a lot about the airline hiring) because of that golden handshake
I know as well excellent pilots (and recognised as so by several instructors), with 1000hrs (and CFI) who never found a job because they did not have the essential contacts (the contacts are more often than not through family, which is technically nepotism indeed)
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easyjet pilots
Easyjet is looking for pilots. More info Pilot Careers - Careers in the Air - easyJet Careers
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the jobs la!!
good one and constructive comment from "scratching". In the end, its just down to the hard yakka of perseverence. Do NOT give up handling the aeroplane while you're waiting for that illustrious job in the RHS. Go and tug..yep, fly the pawnee, get your hands on a Thruster FGS or a cessna 180. Being at the sticky end of the pipeline does, in the end, create dividend, even if it is a B200 job out of Angola or Mozi.
As a 20k C and T with a China Sea based Co, I see the best quality from the guys who have hung in there, chased the Africa offer and some. The boys from PNg or Vanuatu are the same. Its about showing your new employer that you have the tenacity and the dedication to both survive in the job, take the **** and the politics of the firm, the crappy flight time limitations and the early, min rest calls, split duties and 2 sector, long haul days. Its about working for guys that you or most of your peers would never fix bayonettes for when the whistle blows but seem to hideously manage their show. Tug the forelock, bite the bottom lip and get on with the job of handling the aeroplane without breaking it, complaining about it or crying to the union. The easy bit is flying the aerolplane and hey, no one gives a toss where you were in the pickings of first time instrument rating passes. If you can fly the Twotter out of a Scottish winter with no autopilot and into an Airbus summer of chinese typhoons, then all is square with the world. I seem to detect an underlying groundswell from the Uk potentials, that its Ok to rest on the laurels of a good CV and wait for the Fly B or EJ boys to welcome with open arms. Forget it. get your arse out into the paddock and get flying...anything...but show them that the dedication is founded on the passion to fly and not the parameters of conditions of service, a gold crusted ATPL and the ticks in the box. It is afterall, an apprenticeship. One that is built from handling aeroplanes in hard environments, putting brevity to the "war stories" and being true to the industry you have chosen as a career. Good luck. See you in as I'm on the out!!
As a 20k C and T with a China Sea based Co, I see the best quality from the guys who have hung in there, chased the Africa offer and some. The boys from PNg or Vanuatu are the same. Its about showing your new employer that you have the tenacity and the dedication to both survive in the job, take the **** and the politics of the firm, the crappy flight time limitations and the early, min rest calls, split duties and 2 sector, long haul days. Its about working for guys that you or most of your peers would never fix bayonettes for when the whistle blows but seem to hideously manage their show. Tug the forelock, bite the bottom lip and get on with the job of handling the aeroplane without breaking it, complaining about it or crying to the union. The easy bit is flying the aerolplane and hey, no one gives a toss where you were in the pickings of first time instrument rating passes. If you can fly the Twotter out of a Scottish winter with no autopilot and into an Airbus summer of chinese typhoons, then all is square with the world. I seem to detect an underlying groundswell from the Uk potentials, that its Ok to rest on the laurels of a good CV and wait for the Fly B or EJ boys to welcome with open arms. Forget it. get your arse out into the paddock and get flying...anything...but show them that the dedication is founded on the passion to fly and not the parameters of conditions of service, a gold crusted ATPL and the ticks in the box. It is afterall, an apprenticeship. One that is built from handling aeroplanes in hard environments, putting brevity to the "war stories" and being true to the industry you have chosen as a career. Good luck. See you in as I'm on the out!!
daisy 120,I possibly know you if you fly for the (in)famous former expat paradise in HK -as I did also some years ago.I have to say your reply is absolutely spot on and is the best advice I have read on pprune for a long time to aspirant pilots.I agree completely that if you want to fly go out and get your hands on aircraft in remote parts of the world,instruct,crop spray etc.I did some of those things,was pro-active in looking for work and eventually found myself winging my way into Kai-Tak in the LHS of a green and white 747.Great post!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
daisy120,
Love your work, fantastic stuff.
Love your work, fantastic stuff.
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Give me a job, or I'll kill you!!!
Yup, that's what I gonna say in my next interview...next? I mean the first, ha!
Having 2000h and 600h multi, after being an instructor for almost two years...I know there is a biiiig pilot demand! The problem: the delay of aircraft deliverys, because they will be grounded anyway, cause of the operating costs (fuel, etc...). Som the airlines are waiting for better profit years, but pilots, they still need like crazy. BUT: airplane does not fly, pilot goes home, that easy!!!
Had that nice oportunity in South Africa ,B737's, and the same lighting came down...well at least I got the 737 type in that way:-) (yes, lucky me? NO, cause I was chasing that stuff for about 9 weeks!), but I think I'll go and do some ferry flights and/or Bush Flying, until my turn comes for the heavy stuff.
Anybody knows some ferry companies?
Having 2000h and 600h multi, after being an instructor for almost two years...I know there is a biiiig pilot demand! The problem: the delay of aircraft deliverys, because they will be grounded anyway, cause of the operating costs (fuel, etc...). Som the airlines are waiting for better profit years, but pilots, they still need like crazy. BUT: airplane does not fly, pilot goes home, that easy!!!
Had that nice oportunity in South Africa ,B737's, and the same lighting came down...well at least I got the 737 type in that way:-) (yes, lucky me? NO, cause I was chasing that stuff for about 9 weeks!), but I think I'll go and do some ferry flights and/or Bush Flying, until my turn comes for the heavy stuff.
Anybody knows some ferry companies?
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42ir
Hi
Its been over three years for me, I had an air taxi job that went wrong
No money to buy a type rating, IR/MEP just out of date medical ok, the doctor said that I would live but after hearing of the money that I have spent said that he wouldnt recommend it!!!!
As you said dont give up well I never will, but was it a mistake?
While looking for a part time job and in the job centre looking around me for solicitors doctors etc in the same position and not finding any I did wonder
Would I do it again........................................YES
Its late so sorry didnt read this myself hope it makes sense, what have I been doing today my job after 20 years as an electronics engineer working on SLUICE MACHINES reason B.A didnt call me today!!!
Hope that helps KEEP AT IT CAPTAIN
Its been over three years for me, I had an air taxi job that went wrong
No money to buy a type rating, IR/MEP just out of date medical ok, the doctor said that I would live but after hearing of the money that I have spent said that he wouldnt recommend it!!!!
As you said dont give up well I never will, but was it a mistake?
While looking for a part time job and in the job centre looking around me for solicitors doctors etc in the same position and not finding any I did wonder
Would I do it again........................................YES
Its late so sorry didnt read this myself hope it makes sense, what have I been doing today my job after 20 years as an electronics engineer working on SLUICE MACHINES reason B.A didnt call me today!!!
Hope that helps KEEP AT IT CAPTAIN
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Nothing new under the sun
Wow! Its all been said before and the answer is in this thread somewhere. There are many ways to get into this industry, but in the end it comes down to LUCK.
I left a good career to do this. I was 30ish- "you are too old" they said. I did the self-improver route (Daddy not rich, unfortunately) and was not some hot s**t from Oxford; So I did taxi driving to pay bills and many small jobs I detested, then having qualified, 5 grand more went on becoming an instructor (and another wage cut).
Tell you what though- Instructing was the best thing I ever did and as they say- if you could earn a living at it, the airlines would not be able to find any pilots.
All airline pilots like a good moan and from this thread it appears many of you have the required ability in this area.
I got a job on a jet straight out of instructing at age 40- as I said, LUCK. Right place at the right time- there is no science to this. BUT, if you don't have the required qualifications, hours and ratings VALID and CURRENT when the call comes, you won't get the job.
From what I read here, many of you went into this endeavour with a gun to your head. Me, I went into it because I wanted to. If it failed I only had myself to blame.
Stop blaming everyone else for your lack of LUCK. This isn't X-Factor airways.... You won't get plucked from obscurity with the bare minimum of qualifications. If you are failing interviews- seek feedback or you will keep making the same mistakes. Do your homework, especially as many of you don't seem to have done so before parting with large sums on money.
I forget the billionaire who said it but think on this: "the harder I work, the luckier I get". If someone else got the job, they simply worked harder at getting it, one way or another. Make your own luck.
By the way, There is an airline recruiting pilots who are instructors straight onto a jet as we speak-but did you progress beyond your own self pity at 200hrs or did you do your homework and get an application to them?
Not all jobs are advertised.
For those who persist and have the right strength of purpose, a job will be there, but no-one owes you anything. Get that into your head and you won't go far wrong in this industry.
I wish you all luck.
I left a good career to do this. I was 30ish- "you are too old" they said. I did the self-improver route (Daddy not rich, unfortunately) and was not some hot s**t from Oxford; So I did taxi driving to pay bills and many small jobs I detested, then having qualified, 5 grand more went on becoming an instructor (and another wage cut).
Tell you what though- Instructing was the best thing I ever did and as they say- if you could earn a living at it, the airlines would not be able to find any pilots.
All airline pilots like a good moan and from this thread it appears many of you have the required ability in this area.
I got a job on a jet straight out of instructing at age 40- as I said, LUCK. Right place at the right time- there is no science to this. BUT, if you don't have the required qualifications, hours and ratings VALID and CURRENT when the call comes, you won't get the job.
From what I read here, many of you went into this endeavour with a gun to your head. Me, I went into it because I wanted to. If it failed I only had myself to blame.
Stop blaming everyone else for your lack of LUCK. This isn't X-Factor airways.... You won't get plucked from obscurity with the bare minimum of qualifications. If you are failing interviews- seek feedback or you will keep making the same mistakes. Do your homework, especially as many of you don't seem to have done so before parting with large sums on money.
I forget the billionaire who said it but think on this: "the harder I work, the luckier I get". If someone else got the job, they simply worked harder at getting it, one way or another. Make your own luck.
By the way, There is an airline recruiting pilots who are instructors straight onto a jet as we speak-but did you progress beyond your own self pity at 200hrs or did you do your homework and get an application to them?
Not all jobs are advertised.
For those who persist and have the right strength of purpose, a job will be there, but no-one owes you anything. Get that into your head and you won't go far wrong in this industry.
I wish you all luck.
Last edited by Gridnorth; 7th Oct 2008 at 10:12.
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Waiting for a Job
Yes I must agree on this I am 33 years old married with two children Cian (3years) and Madison (8 months) and I am away from home doing contract work for two months on one month off. I am missing my children’s childhood for my dream. I am flying a C208B and getting the experience and hours I need. This is it guys if you are not prepared to chase your dream please let it go. There is no way in hell that you can expect an airline company to employ you with no experience. Take the next step and pursue your career don'’ sit and wait for it to come to you.
Hang in there I am and if you dream hard enough it will happen!!
Hang in there I am and if you dream hard enough it will happen!!