So where are all the jobs then?
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Why? I am confident that you will find that it is impossible to 'buy' a 500 hour Military Line Training package! Although ATP might be able to correct me.
( and yes, I did 10 years service. )
( and yes, I did 10 years service. )
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Godfather Pt3
Whatever happened to Vito? Did he heed some of the harsh but truthful advice offered? Reading the posts of pilots seeking the holy grail of airline flying, I'd like to offer a different prospective. A friend went through the ranks, GA, ag pilot, floatplane pilot and finally landed his dream job flying a shiny new 737-800.
He quit after 9 months. "This isn't flying" he said. And went happily back to single engine turboprop. Not everyone is suited to or embraces the style of flying demanded by the operators of many of the so called 'low cost' airlines. Listen to the pilots out there (eg the poster of 'why this job sucks') much more informative than ground school hype. Take onboard the views from many different sources, and you may find that the perfect aviation job for you might not necessarily be in a passenger jet.
He quit after 9 months. "This isn't flying" he said. And went happily back to single engine turboprop. Not everyone is suited to or embraces the style of flying demanded by the operators of many of the so called 'low cost' airlines. Listen to the pilots out there (eg the poster of 'why this job sucks') much more informative than ground school hype. Take onboard the views from many different sources, and you may find that the perfect aviation job for you might not necessarily be in a passenger jet.
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I am slowly giving up hope of finding a flying job, I now instruct part-time around my full-time job.
When the industry turns a corner who do you think will be hired first, newbies, instructors or pilots with time on type with multi crew experience. I think instructors and experienced pilots. So where does that leave the guys with a new frozen ATPL? The schools are still knocking out pilots with no job at the end of training, when do these guys think they will get a job?
No doubt this has already been covered, but some fresh comments would be nice.
When the industry turns a corner who do you think will be hired first, newbies, instructors or pilots with time on type with multi crew experience. I think instructors and experienced pilots. So where does that leave the guys with a new frozen ATPL? The schools are still knocking out pilots with no job at the end of training, when do these guys think they will get a job?
No doubt this has already been covered, but some fresh comments would be nice.
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Taxing the industry to death
If the government continues to tax the industry to death it, which it will do eventually, is this a cunning plan so not many people travel abroad but spend their money in the UK ! The amount spent on holidays abroad would be spent in the UK by the low earners and the big earners just pay a shed load more indirect tax.
A family of five travelling to Florida pay £1000 in tax before fuel charges (why is this still being charged?) then they have the price of the ticket. The industry is going to go backwards quickly in this country. If you want to fly you will need to relocate.
A family of five travelling to Florida pay £1000 in tax before fuel charges (why is this still being charged?) then they have the price of the ticket. The industry is going to go backwards quickly in this country. If you want to fly you will need to relocate.
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dartagnan
Dartagnan,
I've read some of your posts and instead of heaping criticism upon you, what I'd like to know is, if many of the cv's you receive are put into the trash as you say, what can a applicant do to ensure his cv not only gets read but also receives a positive outcome? What are recruiters looking for? What makes one cv stand out from the others? This information may assist pilots in obtaining useful training, presenting themselves in the correct light and prevent wasting the time of all concerned.
Thanks.
I've read some of your posts and instead of heaping criticism upon you, what I'd like to know is, if many of the cv's you receive are put into the trash as you say, what can a applicant do to ensure his cv not only gets read but also receives a positive outcome? What are recruiters looking for? What makes one cv stand out from the others? This information may assist pilots in obtaining useful training, presenting themselves in the correct light and prevent wasting the time of all concerned.
Thanks.
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Got my wings about a year ago. just before hell broke loose. Haven't flown since then at all. Joined my old job back sometime ago. Was hesitant to go through the FI programme because of cash crunch and non availability of FI jobs Where do i stand when in a few months time recruitment starts again. I am sure people with more current experience will have an edge. that just means all the effort and the moeny is down the drain.
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Definitely, however when 1000 hours on type is in 'plump supply' there still is nothing doing for most wannabes.
I honestly cannot recall the last advert in 'Flight' that I have seen for a Genuine low hour, non typed, job opening. Anyone seen something I didn't?
I believe the book has been re-written, the accountants have won, pay to fly is very much here to stay.
I honestly cannot recall the last advert in 'Flight' that I have seen for a Genuine low hour, non typed, job opening. Anyone seen something I didn't?
I believe the book has been re-written, the accountants have won, pay to fly is very much here to stay.
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Small flaw to the advice above. I could drop a further 6 or 7 grand on an instructor rating, but there aren't any instructor jobs either. Especially for someone with no instructional experience. Right now you can't even put your foot on the first rung. 
I know loads of people all doing instructor ratings right now, having all just finished an integrated course. Unfortunately for the last year, everyone else has left and thought, what can I do? Oh yeah, an instructor rating. Looks great on the CV, keeps me current etc etc. I would happily spend the money on this, if I thought for a second I might be employed at the end of it. I asked a guy the other day if he wanted a pilot for long distance ferrying. He told me he wanted ... wait for it ... 5000 hours!
The first airline to recruit offering a TR is going to be innundated. I just hope they don't detect the stench of desperation wafting from me.
I know loads of people all doing instructor ratings right now, having all just finished an integrated course. Unfortunately for the last year, everyone else has left and thought, what can I do? Oh yeah, an instructor rating. Looks great on the CV, keeps me current etc etc. I would happily spend the money on this, if I thought for a second I might be employed at the end of it. I asked a guy the other day if he wanted a pilot for long distance ferrying. He told me he wanted ... wait for it ... 5000 hours!
The first airline to recruit offering a TR is going to be innundated. I just hope they don't detect the stench of desperation wafting from me.
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With regards to Dartagnan's claims to be in recruitment and binning all integrated CVs;
18 months ago our "friend" was a frustrated instructor, who went out and bought an A320 rating and had been looking for work for 10 months.
In the 18 months since this post he has not only found work but he has also been so impressive at his job, he has made it into the recruitment team.
Dartagnan, how stupid do you think we are?
18 months ago our "friend" was a frustrated instructor, who went out and bought an A320 rating and had been looking for work for 10 months.
In the 18 months since this post he has not only found work but he has also been so impressive at his job, he has made it into the recruitment team.
Dartagnan, how stupid do you think we are?
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There are still jobs. Most certainly not-so-many or easy to get, but there are.
I claim this, because I was that lucky guy who found it.
Finished via modular route last summer, the company, who's ab-initios we were, was closed down, so we found ourselves literally on the streets- and then the job market collapsed.
After numerous CV's and endless 'social chatting' found two places.. partly sponsored instructor route, or office clerk job in business jets.. Choosed second option and hoped..
Finally, at the end of may, went to the typerating course of LR60 and now attending on line training.
You dont have to got 5000 hours to get a job. You dont need to pay your own typerating and linetraining to get your first flying job. You dont need to go to RYR to get a job. Its all about who knows you and who might get you a tip, when any job, which may end in the cockpit.
As a wannabe, I can only suggest, prove yourself. Clean a/c, work in office, let the bosses know you, who you are and that you are reliable.. and you can get in..
Best of luck..
I claim this, because I was that lucky guy who found it.
Finished via modular route last summer, the company, who's ab-initios we were, was closed down, so we found ourselves literally on the streets- and then the job market collapsed.
After numerous CV's and endless 'social chatting' found two places.. partly sponsored instructor route, or office clerk job in business jets.. Choosed second option and hoped..
Finally, at the end of may, went to the typerating course of LR60 and now attending on line training.
You dont have to got 5000 hours to get a job. You dont need to pay your own typerating and linetraining to get your first flying job. You dont need to go to RYR to get a job. Its all about who knows you and who might get you a tip, when any job, which may end in the cockpit.
As a wannabe, I can only suggest, prove yourself. Clean a/c, work in office, let the bosses know you, who you are and that you are reliable.. and you can get in..
Best of luck..
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Proby: Pilatus job in Asia
Hi Proby,
I just saw your post today, is this job still available? pls pm me contacts if still in need of a PC12 pilot. I have 3300 TT, 1100 jet time, CRJ 200/700/900 type rating, FAA flight instructor... and, yes, I'm ready to fly a Pilatus and relocate!
I just saw your post today, is this job still available? pls pm me contacts if still in need of a PC12 pilot. I have 3300 TT, 1100 jet time, CRJ 200/700/900 type rating, FAA flight instructor... and, yes, I'm ready to fly a Pilatus and relocate!
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Job opportunities worldwide are shrinking.
SSTR is here to stay and will only become more prevalant
If you are bright enough, look at other careers that pay more and do a PPL and fly for fun. The days of long stopovers and good pay and conditions are long gone.
My advice - do not undertake commercial flying training until (if) the market improves. Also, if you are not related to someone already a pilot, SERIOUSLY consider if it is likely you will get a job.
You will also grow older and perhaps wiser and realise that it ain't like you thought it would be.
I am lucky. I earn enough in a different industry and instruct for enjoyment.
And finally, do not comment on PPRUNE that you only need an iron will and persistence etc etc to get a job until you have comparative number of ATPL's issued vs employment numbers. Do the sums
SSTR is here to stay and will only become more prevalant
If you are bright enough, look at other careers that pay more and do a PPL and fly for fun. The days of long stopovers and good pay and conditions are long gone.
My advice - do not undertake commercial flying training until (if) the market improves. Also, if you are not related to someone already a pilot, SERIOUSLY consider if it is likely you will get a job.
You will also grow older and perhaps wiser and realise that it ain't like you thought it would be.
I am lucky. I earn enough in a different industry and instruct for enjoyment.
And finally, do not comment on PPRUNE that you only need an iron will and persistence etc etc to get a job until you have comparative number of ATPL's issued vs employment numbers. Do the sums
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In essence
So in essence....would people quite simply agree that this period - which may last for the next 2 years - is the worst period to even think about getting a flying job?
Some of us may not agree?
Is it just that simple at the moment?
Might put training off and do a post grad for a year in some hole somewhere!
Some of us may not agree?
Is it just that simple at the moment?
Might put training off and do a post grad for a year in some hole somewhere!
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Hi Gav,
Now is a really bad time to be looking for a job, but not necessarily a poor time to be 'starting' training.
A measured approach to training, (carefully managing the budget), and 'trying' to time completion with the market up swing might be the way ahead?
Why are you looking at a 'post grad' as opposed to finding a job to put some cash in the training funds bank?
Now is a really bad time to be looking for a job, but not necessarily a poor time to be 'starting' training.
A measured approach to training, (carefully managing the budget), and 'trying' to time completion with the market up swing might be the way ahead?
Why are you looking at a 'post grad' as opposed to finding a job to put some cash in the training funds bank?
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Chin up
I tooke particular note of your frustration in regard to getting a job. Back in 1972 there were no jobs either after going through the same stuff and cost heaps of money, the result of a lot of after hours work.
There a lot of other opportunities in aviation and with your flight training experience it will open a lot of other opportunities. All you have to be is determined to the max. I went into the then Aust DCA as a flight service officer and got a break into air safety investigation in PNG after a hell of a lot of phone calls but having said that you need some flight experience or other comensurate aviation experience to supplement your flight time and training. It is not easy and if you are engineeringly inclined and have a determined personal nature you too can achieve the same result.
Dont give up. An Aviation career can cover many disciplines but you have to be determined enough to ride out the tough stuff. How old are you.???
There a lot of other opportunities in aviation and with your flight training experience it will open a lot of other opportunities. All you have to be is determined to the max. I went into the then Aust DCA as a flight service officer and got a break into air safety investigation in PNG after a hell of a lot of phone calls but having said that you need some flight experience or other comensurate aviation experience to supplement your flight time and training. It is not easy and if you are engineeringly inclined and have a determined personal nature you too can achieve the same result.
Dont give up. An Aviation career can cover many disciplines but you have to be determined enough to ride out the tough stuff. How old are you.???
I'm up to 1 year and counting. (looking for my first flying job that is)
Any training captains, influential pilots or club CFIs reading this, if you give me a job then I'll refit your bathroom for free, ex-tradesman so experienced and very good, you pay for the materials thou! (I've tried everything else to get a job, so I may as well try this!. The last year has taught me that getting a job isn't based on merit, it's who you know and huge slice of luck....i've had no luck and have no airline contacts...doh!)
frozen ATPL (ME CPL IR) and FI rating, IR valid until 22/07/2010.
Any training captains, influential pilots or club CFIs reading this, if you give me a job then I'll refit your bathroom for free, ex-tradesman so experienced and very good, you pay for the materials thou! (I've tried everything else to get a job, so I may as well try this!. The last year has taught me that getting a job isn't based on merit, it's who you know and huge slice of luck....i've had no luck and have no airline contacts...doh!)
frozen ATPL (ME CPL IR) and FI rating, IR valid until 22/07/2010.
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Vito,
Chin up mate. This disease you have in your blood stream is called Aviation. I am guessing you are not married yet, but later on in Aviation just when you think you are making a living, you may contract A.I.D.S., also known as Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.
Did the schools show you pictures of an airline pilot standing next to a big jet with flight bag in hand and a neat hat?
I am guessing by your post with all those years of flying (two) and a kings ransom handed over to flying schools that things are not moving fast enough for you. After another four or five years you will look back and refer to these years as the slave days, paying dues, kissing butt, getting calls at 11:00pm for an all nighter, washing, waxing, learning the fine art of bright work, pumping gas, towing planes, flying airmed (tossing the carcus), flying traffic watch, counting or shooting coyotes while flying. If you mange to live through the slave years you may make a respectable pilot and then have logged enough time to actually apply to and get another job. But even then aviation is very un-expectable, you never know whether you will have a job from one day to the next, just when you think you have the tiger by the tale, POOF! the job is gone and you are asking mom and dad for help again.
I flew privately for 20 years and then decided to change careers and fly professionally, sold the home that my wife, daughter and I lived in, sold 5 acres on a 4300' paved airstrip, finished my ratings, moved back into my first home (2br/1ba) and started pumping gas and kerosene at the airport and still put in another three or four years that I considered the slave days before having a respectable job flying. Every time I felt I had a good job, it went away. Lately, shooting coyotes from a plane is sounding like a great job.
But look on the bright side, after about 15 years you can come back to this board (or what ever online will look like then) and post a post like this one to share your hard earned wisdom with the newly printed pilots that can not figure out why the big airline companies are not throwing job offers at them.
Wanting to fly is a paralyzing sickness... but chicks dig it!
Chin up mate. This disease you have in your blood stream is called Aviation. I am guessing you are not married yet, but later on in Aviation just when you think you are making a living, you may contract A.I.D.S., also known as Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.
Did the schools show you pictures of an airline pilot standing next to a big jet with flight bag in hand and a neat hat?
I am guessing by your post with all those years of flying (two) and a kings ransom handed over to flying schools that things are not moving fast enough for you. After another four or five years you will look back and refer to these years as the slave days, paying dues, kissing butt, getting calls at 11:00pm for an all nighter, washing, waxing, learning the fine art of bright work, pumping gas, towing planes, flying airmed (tossing the carcus), flying traffic watch, counting or shooting coyotes while flying. If you mange to live through the slave years you may make a respectable pilot and then have logged enough time to actually apply to and get another job. But even then aviation is very un-expectable, you never know whether you will have a job from one day to the next, just when you think you have the tiger by the tale, POOF! the job is gone and you are asking mom and dad for help again.
I flew privately for 20 years and then decided to change careers and fly professionally, sold the home that my wife, daughter and I lived in, sold 5 acres on a 4300' paved airstrip, finished my ratings, moved back into my first home (2br/1ba) and started pumping gas and kerosene at the airport and still put in another three or four years that I considered the slave days before having a respectable job flying. Every time I felt I had a good job, it went away. Lately, shooting coyotes from a plane is sounding like a great job.
But look on the bright side, after about 15 years you can come back to this board (or what ever online will look like then) and post a post like this one to share your hard earned wisdom with the newly printed pilots that can not figure out why the big airline companies are not throwing job offers at them.
Wanting to fly is a paralyzing sickness... but chicks dig it!
Last edited by Silly Pilot; 11th Aug 2009 at 04:38.