So where are all the jobs then?

[Opti]

I need a new dad
All, can anyone get me a new dad who holds a senior position in an airline (and preferably one who owns an airline). My dads crap, he runs a pub, how dare he, I want to get into flying!

You're funny. You should be a comedian. I bet they travel a lot -__-

you'll probably go around the world twice, and we'll still be here, sitting on our arses, trying to figure a way to get to fly a plane. :P

[Booglebox]

Originally Posted by stuckgear

in fact ever since the first flight at kitty hawk, a pilot shortage has been predicted.

Aviation job security arguably got off to a bad start. Orville and Wilbur had to toss a coin to decide who got to fly that day!

[Officer Kite]

If you have £110,000 and a pulse you can get a job with Easyjet or Ryanair - is this still true?

Are you trying to suggest the easyjet mpl and modular route to attempt ryanair is easy ?

This notion that having the 110k will get you onto easy, qatar or whoever else with ease is nonsense. Everything is EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE !

[Officer Kite]

as long as you can find £110,000 and are reasonably intelligent

I would disagree, it is far from easy and people from very high ends of the job spectrum (lawyers etc) haven't managed to get onto a ctc programme. I don't know what your current situation is but I would encourage you to try the CTC selection test for an airline programme and see if you still hold the same views after it. It isn't just aptitude/maths etc, the interview I would say is even harder.

[Whiskey Hotel]

I'd agree 100% with officer kite. Having the money is simply not enough. There are guys out there with all the required licences and some with 250hrs and some with upwards of 1000hrs who are doing instructing or groundschool instruction who still cannot get jobs. It seems that there is some demand for pilots with 2000hrs+ jet hours and these are getting jobs with various airlines, but the market is very tough for low hours pilots. Also, some airlines require you to fork out 15-20k plus for type ratings, so this is an added cost to your training costs. I'm doing I've modular route and I honestly don't know if it will pay off, some say that demand will increase significantly in the next few years with a lot of pilots going to the Middle East therefore opening up new first officer positions in western Europe. But there is a huge over supply of low hours graduates at present, which makes it a quite unattractive prospect for new people considering becoming pilots. Supply is greater than demand, therefore many pilots are sitting on the shelf for the past number of years, and sadly, many will remain in that position.

[Journey Man]

Originally Posted by Hecate

As I understand it, as long as you can find £110,000 and are reasonably intelligent, and can get a CPL/IR, you're in. It might take a bit of waiting, but everyone gets a job via CTC if they wait long enough? That's what my mate who works for easyjet as a pilot says.

Well that sounds rock solid information. I'd definitely financially throw everything at the problem with such guarantees. In fact, I can't believe banks still want guarantors for large loans, considering such a cast-iron guarantee from Hecate's mate in the Orange mob.

[Mickey Kaye]

Is the modular route really worth it anymore? What big companies still hire non-CTC people?

Numerous I know 2 people who have recently got airline jobs and another who just landed a corporate job.

And exactly how do people get those cushy Citation/Lear Jet jobs based out of Biggin Hill?

They get a good name for themselves usually at some local flying school and word of mouth takes it from there. They usually have more than 200 hours mind.

[faacfilookingforajob]

some say that demand will increase significantly in the next few years with a lot of pilots going to the Middle East therefore opening up new first officer positions in western Europe

wrong, pilots go to middle east because they can not find jobs in Europe.
Why do you think US pilots fly in china? it' s because they can not find a decent job in their country.

Europe is doomed,3% recovery is not enough to create jobs so the next 5 years will be tough.

[Whiskey Hotel]

So how do you explain the exodus of Ryanair and easyjet pilots going to etihad and emirates? Pay is far better, better job prospects and a better quality of life. Only snag is the requirement of 3000-4000+ jet hours In order to get into one of those carriers.. Many pilots in low cost carriers in Europe are just biding their time and building hours to make the jump to the Middle East.

[faacfilookingforajob]

and how do you explain the mass of unemployed pilots in this case?

get real! jeez! there is no pilot shortage, there is not enough jobs for all of us.

[Whiskey Hotel]

Correct, there is no pilot shortage. If you read what I said, the movement of pilots to the Middle East will open up new first officer positions at low cost carriers, plain and simple. Demand will be very small, but it is the only glimmer of hope that is there for low hours pilots right now. Emirates are hiring a good number of ex ryanair FO's, so in turn the seats that they vacate will need to be filled. I'm not saying that there will be thousands of vacancies, but a small but hopefully steady stream.

Ryanair have noticed this and are addressing the issue by giving command positions to suitably qualified FO's, but it is only partially stemming the outward movement of their pilots.

[speedrestriction]

I think WH is right. Plenty of guys (mostly <35 yo RHS) building hours in the Locos with a plan to move to the big middle eastern carriers. More experienced people making the same move tend to be doing it in order to find a more stable employer than their current one (think charter outfits with layoffs over the last few years) and those moving due to actual redundancy.

From what I see the main drivers in the employment market in UK / Northern Europe are the large low cost airlines. Their scale, success and employment practices have altered the jobs market for pilots.

1) They totally dominate the growth in the sector. Where there is growth, there are jobs.

2) Their continued success has two sources: business generated by offering more affordable seats and also pax won over from other carriers who cannot compete on cost. This leads to restructuring/failure of other airlines who end up putting experienced pilots out on the street.

3) The problem really arises with their employment practices for a number of reasons. Also recruitment for the Locos tends to be either DEC or cadet with very little on offer in between. This cadet channel can be very narrow, sometimes only one supplier.

There is no shortage of people to fill the cadet side of the equation. There is not a huge amount of DEC on offer and undoubtedly supply is much tighter but this is of little concern on this forum.

Where are the airline jobs then for newbies?

1) Low cost carriers

2) Other carriers immediate post re-structure (frequently they cut too deep)

3) Smaller operators/regionals who recruit at a lower level in drips and drabs without necessarily putting a big ad in FlightGlobal.

Not mind-blowingly original, I know.

[dboy]

Same here. Got a bit more than 3000h on learjet but being fed with the company and aircraft. The only job that was offered was from a company that paid less than a cashier in Wall Mart.(with all respect for them).

And for the rest...well there was always something why i was not meeting the requirements (typerating, not speaking the language etc etc etc).

At the moment i'm thinking of doing job orientation and getting at least a regular life.

[hoox]

Good posibility for all Europeans: Swiss European RJ100

Just filter for Cockpit Jobs. Paid TR, full salary of 75.000chf from day one of TR, excellent company. No hours needed, only tricky requirement is german b2 level.

Good luck!

[P40Warhawk]

That you should get via for example Goethe Institute . Its not really high level B2.