Ryanair
Yes it does! Would recommended for cadets...Get loads of hours and experience on modern jets, flying sometimes difficult approaches to small provincal airports. Good pay (eventually) and a stable roster. I know of much worse.
For me I want to move on now. Loads of reasons.
For me I want to move on now. Loads of reasons.
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Hey, Marvo!
Thanx for Your information concerning type rating! The only reason why I asked that question is that I canīt afford to pay for the rating in advance, but would like to work for Ryanair, because I am sure it is a good job with decent payment. So according Your posting they may pay the rating for pilots with more than 1500 hours by bonding You, right??
Greetings to all!!
MacFly16
Thanx for Your information concerning type rating! The only reason why I asked that question is that I canīt afford to pay for the rating in advance, but would like to work for Ryanair, because I am sure it is a good job with decent payment. So according Your posting they may pay the rating for pilots with more than 1500 hours by bonding You, right??
Greetings to all!!
MacFly16
Don't quote me, but I am under the impression that if you have some JAR25 jet time, with 1500 hrs (ATPL unfrozen) they will consider paying your type rating and bonding you for three years. It seems to change from time to time depending on the requirements. Hope this helps, best of luck.
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Scroggs
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@Scroggs
Thanx for Your post!!! It was very informative!!!
@Marvo
Well, I think my problem is to have just turboprop hours and no jet time at all. Do You think that will disqualify me for a sponsored rating. I will try and hope, that this wonīt matter.
Greetings to You
MacFly16
Thanx for Your post!!! It was very informative!!!
@Marvo
Well, I think my problem is to have just turboprop hours and no jet time at all. Do You think that will disqualify me for a sponsored rating. I will try and hope, that this wonīt matter.
Greetings to You
MacFly16
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You may want to punch me for saying this, but after watching that clip, I would still work for Ryan Air. Once I have a few thousand hours then yes, I would be choosy about whom I work for, but for now I will do anything to initiate my dream career and if that means having to go through a bit of a night mare in the beginning, then hey . . . so be it! I JUST WANT TO FLY!!!!!!
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Yes it does.
They don't have enough training captains to take on more low houred guys. That, and the fact that they now, with these new terms, can make guys/girls with 300-400 hours on type go through line-training without having to pay them. Why? Well, if you're below 500hrs, you're a "cadet".
Sux, doesn't it?!
They don't have enough training captains to take on more low houred guys. That, and the fact that they now, with these new terms, can make guys/girls with 300-400 hours on type go through line-training without having to pay them. Why? Well, if you're below 500hrs, you're a "cadet".
Sux, doesn't it?!
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You may want to punch me for saying this, but after watching that clip, I would still work for Ryan Air. Once I have a few thousand hours then yes, I would be choosy about whom I work for, but for now I will do anything to initiate my dream career and if that means having to go through a bit of a night mare in the beginning, then hey . . . so be it! I JUST WANT TO FLY!!!!!!
Another lamb to the slaughter...
Scroggs
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Dont get me wrong . . . Ryan Air would never ever be my first choice . . . I think the way they opperate is discusting, however I would still fly for them in order to gain 1500+ hours on my license and then I would get the hell out. Sometimes you have to dig in s**t to reach the gold . . . and with low hours I and many others I am sure are willing to do a bit of digging. I am against it and only hope and wish that things will change in the future.
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An2,
I'm not sure of that, actually, it's seems that there is some FO's without 500 hrs who still have an interview mid-november. I think that's they have enough FO's until next year (april 2007) and that's all.
Oli,
I'm not sure of that, actually, it's seems that there is some FO's without 500 hrs who still have an interview mid-november. I think that's they have enough FO's until next year (april 2007) and that's all.
Oli,
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Another lamb to the slaughter...
Hi Scroggs,
I can't help but slightly disagree with the above. Firstly I know you have a great deal of experience in aviation and I respect that, and part of the above is you trying to warn people.
However it is also very easy for someone in your position who has probably never had to pay for training being Ex RAF / and now Virgin. That is great and very fortunate for you, but things have changed now and not just in Aviation. Can you honestly say that had things been different that you would not have paid for qualifications to further your career if it was the only option open to you?
I'm trying to make the point that everyone is different and in different circumstances. Me I am 32, I left an established career like so many do to gain my ATPL. Now I have an assessment with FR next week for FO/Cadet and i feel bl**dy fortunate to even have that, and only do because I know a TRTO with them.
Now if I am successful, yes it P*sess me off that I will have to pay out so much money, but I can look far enough ahead to know that I will be way more marketable in just 18/24 months, with 1,800hrs on a heavy jet than if I sit at home and say I am not paying for a rating.
Or I could as you have recently suggested on another post go and spend £6k on an instructors rating and earn less than £12k a year (great investment! Plus I can not live on that) yes I would gain single engine instructional time which is mostly useless as far as the airlines are concerned, to then 18/24 months down the line and MORE in debt realise the industry has not and will not change and go out and pay for a Jet/TP rating. I just think sometimes people should have a greater understanding that for some it is the best / only option if you have a job offer at the end of it.
How many people do you fly with every week who spent 3-5 yrs at FR and are now in the right hand seat of an A340, I am guessing shed loads, but in the big picture it got them to where they want to be, and not slaughtered!
Scroggs I hope you dont take offense to the above comments.
I would also like to make the point it is us (newly qualified pilots) who are being forced into entering the industry by paying for ratings, something I feel in no way is our fault. How can it be when we have had no influence in an industry we have never been employed in before!
Please please others reading this DO NOT think that I am knocking FI or people who fly TP before jets I AM NOT! Infact I would bite a TP operators arm off if any of them would respond to sent CV's.
I just wanted to give another opinion of someone trying to get into this very strange industry, I hope I have done so without causing offense.
All the best which ever way you choose to do it,
Dan
Hi Scroggs,
I can't help but slightly disagree with the above. Firstly I know you have a great deal of experience in aviation and I respect that, and part of the above is you trying to warn people.
However it is also very easy for someone in your position who has probably never had to pay for training being Ex RAF / and now Virgin. That is great and very fortunate for you, but things have changed now and not just in Aviation. Can you honestly say that had things been different that you would not have paid for qualifications to further your career if it was the only option open to you?
I'm trying to make the point that everyone is different and in different circumstances. Me I am 32, I left an established career like so many do to gain my ATPL. Now I have an assessment with FR next week for FO/Cadet and i feel bl**dy fortunate to even have that, and only do because I know a TRTO with them.
Now if I am successful, yes it P*sess me off that I will have to pay out so much money, but I can look far enough ahead to know that I will be way more marketable in just 18/24 months, with 1,800hrs on a heavy jet than if I sit at home and say I am not paying for a rating.
Or I could as you have recently suggested on another post go and spend £6k on an instructors rating and earn less than £12k a year (great investment! Plus I can not live on that) yes I would gain single engine instructional time which is mostly useless as far as the airlines are concerned, to then 18/24 months down the line and MORE in debt realise the industry has not and will not change and go out and pay for a Jet/TP rating. I just think sometimes people should have a greater understanding that for some it is the best / only option if you have a job offer at the end of it.
How many people do you fly with every week who spent 3-5 yrs at FR and are now in the right hand seat of an A340, I am guessing shed loads, but in the big picture it got them to where they want to be, and not slaughtered!
Scroggs I hope you dont take offense to the above comments.
I would also like to make the point it is us (newly qualified pilots) who are being forced into entering the industry by paying for ratings, something I feel in no way is our fault. How can it be when we have had no influence in an industry we have never been employed in before!
Please please others reading this DO NOT think that I am knocking FI or people who fly TP before jets I AM NOT! Infact I would bite a TP operators arm off if any of them would respond to sent CV's.
I just wanted to give another opinion of someone trying to get into this very strange industry, I hope I have done so without causing offense.
All the best which ever way you choose to do it,
Dan
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I would also like to make the point it is us (newly qualified pilots) who are being forced into entering the industry by paying for ratings, something I feel in no way is our fault. How can it be when we have had no influence in an industry we have never been employed in before!
Another lamb to the slaughter...
Wish U all the best
PZ
Dan 98, I have to say that is an excellent post. People join Ryanair with no illusions. There is enough information out there about the process involved and the companies attitude to its staff. I hope people go in with their eyes open
For a MODERATOR to use the phrase "Lambs to the slaughter" I find slightly disheartening.
For a MODERATOR to use the phrase "Lambs to the slaughter" I find slightly disheartening.
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Believe it or not most seats are full at FR at the moment. Hardly any direct entry Captains positions available and F/O slots are scarce. Thus, hour requirements go up to increase experience level in the flight deck.
However, next summer recruitment will start again in earnest and Cadets will be required in significant numbers.
However, next summer recruitment will start again in earnest and Cadets will be required in significant numbers.
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In my humble opinion, Scroggs; you don't have the full picture. I joined FR with an open mind and paid for my rating. Now my economy is under control, and I can finally relax. If I hadn't, I would still have had to work night shifts + instructing on daytime with a crap salary. Five years of instructing didn't give me anything. Who cares about SEP hours anyway...?
What is exceptional with FR is that you will not be treated in a normal, decent way. You are just filling a vacant spot in a huge puzzle. Because of that almost every employee has personal issues with FR. However, I have tripled my income, I work less and my future looks very bright.
Finally, Scroggs..don't forget that you have reached your goals and it's very easy to tell others what to do or not, and you were fortunate enough to be able to choose. That's what it all comes down to...We don't have a choice.
What is exceptional with FR is that you will not be treated in a normal, decent way. You are just filling a vacant spot in a huge puzzle. Because of that almost every employee has personal issues with FR. However, I have tripled my income, I work less and my future looks very bright.
Finally, Scroggs..don't forget that you have reached your goals and it's very easy to tell others what to do or not, and you were fortunate enough to be able to choose. That's what it all comes down to...We don't have a choice.
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Where do I start? Let's try this for openers, written by Wonder Boy just over a year ago:
And then there's this, Ryanair - A Guide For Prospective Pilots, Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.
If reading those doesn't help you understand why I said 'Another lamb to the slaughter', then perhaps you are beyond help!
Part of the problem is the increasingly-prevalent expectation of getting into a jet flight deck with no experience other than the fATPL training. While it can be done, it is just one way of beginning of what I hope will be a very long career for you. Unfortunately, as was pointed out at the Pprune Seminar yesterday, more than a few of those who have gone straight into companies like Ryanair have become disillusioned with the entire aviation industry, and been 'burned out' by the workload - so much so that people are leaving to take up alternative careers after only 5 or 6 years flying. They just can't take any more.
As for the logic of accepting extremely low (or no) pay for your initial period of 'employment', see my take on the subject.
Whether you can appreciate it or not, you do have a choice. What choice you make will affect you for the rest of your working life. Incidentally, I have never flown with an ex-Ryanair pilot in Virgin. I am not aware of there being any in the company; there are several ex-easyJet however. I don't know why this is, though I have some suspicions.
Scroggs
I am a First Officer in Ryanair and here is exactly how I am being payed in the first 12 months:
Type rating (4-6 WEEKS):
No pay
You then wait 2-4 weeks for base training without pay. After base training you are on the training contract basic rate for 6 months. This is an annual rate of 8700 pounds. However, you do not start getting payed this until after line training. Line training takes 2-3 months so you are therefore only payed on this rate for 3-4 months. Sounds complicated? It is purposely so.Not only that, but the company reduces this initial rate by 1000 pounds every year or so without notice. Next year you might therefore expect the rate to be 7700 pounds.
So, from the start of type rating until conclusion of line training you will only have earned about 750 pounds (half sector pay after safety pilot release and no basic salary yet).
About 3.5 months now remain until you finish your training contract. On the annual rate of 8700 (remember this will reduce eventually) you will earn 2530 basic in this time. Also, you will earn 2800 sector pay.
To sum up so far:
Day 1 to completion of line check ( 4 months) = 750 pounds
Line check to end of training contract (3.5 months) = 5330 pounds
Total after 7.5 months with the company = 6080 pounds.
It will now have been 6 months since base check. You will now go on the basic second officer terms. This amounts to a basic annual rate of 14000 pounds and half sector pay for a further 6 months.
In these 6 months you will therefore earn 7000 pounds basic and about 4800 pounds sector pay. This basic rate is also being reduced annually without notice.
Ok, here are the final figures (before tax) for the first 12 months after the base check:
Basic pay: 9530 pounds
Sector pay: 8350 pounds
Total: 17880 Pounds.
Type rating (4-6 WEEKS):
No pay
You then wait 2-4 weeks for base training without pay. After base training you are on the training contract basic rate for 6 months. This is an annual rate of 8700 pounds. However, you do not start getting payed this until after line training. Line training takes 2-3 months so you are therefore only payed on this rate for 3-4 months. Sounds complicated? It is purposely so.Not only that, but the company reduces this initial rate by 1000 pounds every year or so without notice. Next year you might therefore expect the rate to be 7700 pounds.
So, from the start of type rating until conclusion of line training you will only have earned about 750 pounds (half sector pay after safety pilot release and no basic salary yet).
About 3.5 months now remain until you finish your training contract. On the annual rate of 8700 (remember this will reduce eventually) you will earn 2530 basic in this time. Also, you will earn 2800 sector pay.
To sum up so far:
Day 1 to completion of line check ( 4 months) = 750 pounds
Line check to end of training contract (3.5 months) = 5330 pounds
Total after 7.5 months with the company = 6080 pounds.
It will now have been 6 months since base check. You will now go on the basic second officer terms. This amounts to a basic annual rate of 14000 pounds and half sector pay for a further 6 months.
In these 6 months you will therefore earn 7000 pounds basic and about 4800 pounds sector pay. This basic rate is also being reduced annually without notice.
Ok, here are the final figures (before tax) for the first 12 months after the base check:
Basic pay: 9530 pounds
Sector pay: 8350 pounds
Total: 17880 Pounds.
If reading those doesn't help you understand why I said 'Another lamb to the slaughter', then perhaps you are beyond help!
Part of the problem is the increasingly-prevalent expectation of getting into a jet flight deck with no experience other than the fATPL training. While it can be done, it is just one way of beginning of what I hope will be a very long career for you. Unfortunately, as was pointed out at the Pprune Seminar yesterday, more than a few of those who have gone straight into companies like Ryanair have become disillusioned with the entire aviation industry, and been 'burned out' by the workload - so much so that people are leaving to take up alternative careers after only 5 or 6 years flying. They just can't take any more.
As for the logic of accepting extremely low (or no) pay for your initial period of 'employment', see my take on the subject.
Whether you can appreciate it or not, you do have a choice. What choice you make will affect you for the rest of your working life. Incidentally, I have never flown with an ex-Ryanair pilot in Virgin. I am not aware of there being any in the company; there are several ex-easyJet however. I don't know why this is, though I have some suspicions.
Scroggs
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Would you care to share your suspicions Scroggs??