Ryanair Interview and Sim Assessment (merged)
lol
s in relation to sleeping better. Fair enough. If thats what your into smith Join Date: Mar 2009
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Smyth --->the guy came on and tells you things from a perspective of life inside the job you bash daily, he hardly has a stick up his a'se for doing that??? 
The saying "a stick up your a%se" relates to someone with a problem, your the one doing the complaining and moaning on this thread are you not?
Try and post with some maturity and stop trying so hard to sound condescending and spiteful.
The saying "a stick up your a%se" relates to someone with a problem, your the one doing the complaining and moaning on this thread are you not?
Try and post with some maturity and stop trying so hard to sound condescending and spiteful.
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Irish Pilot
Too right I am spiteful mate, along with many, many other colleagues who hate seeing this once proud industry being screwed into the ground. Yes it's industry wide now but we see the instigator as a certain MOL and FR and thus vent our anger on those associated with him.
Don't get me wrong I can see your side of the story, FR is the only real option there is these days and the only way to get a foothold but the other side of the coin is that industry wide the T&C's get diminished. We now just have to agree to disagree on whatever side of the fence we sit on and as such will have to argue our point on these forums as best we can.
Good luck
Too right I am spiteful mate, along with many, many other colleagues who hate seeing this once proud industry being screwed into the ground. Yes it's industry wide now but we see the instigator as a certain MOL and FR and thus vent our anger on those associated with him.
Don't get me wrong I can see your side of the story, FR is the only real option there is these days and the only way to get a foothold but the other side of the coin is that industry wide the T&C's get diminished. We now just have to agree to disagree on whatever side of the fence we sit on and as such will have to argue our point on these forums as best we can.
Good luck
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What GA flap is referring to is after i posted my rant on RYR and listed all the negatives of the contract on offer someone PM'd me asking me if i could, tell them more about the dodgy accounting, give the contact details for the dramatically overpriced MCC and then proceeded to tell me they are desperate to join ryr and is will to pay a huge amount of money to get there. I think for some odd reason they thought i was working for ryr. Initially i thought it was a mickey take but when i read it the second time it was clear it wasn't
On a serious note it just proves how blind these people are if they think i'm involved in ryr recruitment. What part of my post could possibly have given that impression. Incredible.
To the individual that PM'd me i think you may need to become a bit more perceptive if you think i'm involved in RYR recruitment!!
On a serious note it just proves how blind these people are if they think i'm involved in ryr recruitment. What part of my post could possibly have given that impression. Incredible.
To the individual that PM'd me i think you may need to become a bit more perceptive if you think i'm involved in RYR recruitment!!
To the individual that PM'd me i think you may need to become a bit more perceptive if you think i'm involved in RYR recruitment
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mikehotel whatever we disagree on in terms of the ryr contracts. the fact this wannabee could be so blind desperate, and easily taken advantage of has been a real eye opener for me. how could anyone have come to that conclusion. what did he see that was attractive in my rant?
there exists the problem i guess?they must have been some seriously rose tinted glasses for him/her to see an attraction in my post....even you have to admit that!!
there exists the problem i guess?they must have been some seriously rose tinted glasses for him/her to see an attraction in my post....even you have to admit that!!
Funny you should say that! 
How anyone could believe that you might be a beacon of hope to Ryanair wannabes, I'll never know...
But in all seriousness, I've met boring, deluded and strangely impressionable people in the holding pools for 'proper' airlines who I wouldn't trust to drive my old banger down the M1 let alone pilot an Airbus to Alicante. I've also met people at Ryanair who are not really cut out for the life they've sacrificed so much to live.
I've also met a lot of really great, talented people at RYR. People who I would trust and who I would like to spend more time with. I guess that's the same with all companies in all professions.
In the spirit of Christmas I take this opportunity to wish everyone a bit of happiness in their quest for a paying job in flying, whether the funding comes from Mummy and Daddy, a huge a win on the National Lottery, a bit of an Inheritance, a job in the City ripping off the taxpayer or merely a good credit rating leading to an intimate relationship with Mr VISA.
How anyone could believe that you might be a beacon of hope to Ryanair wannabes, I'll never know...But in all seriousness, I've met boring, deluded and strangely impressionable people in the holding pools for 'proper' airlines who I wouldn't trust to drive my old banger down the M1 let alone pilot an Airbus to Alicante. I've also met people at Ryanair who are not really cut out for the life they've sacrificed so much to live.
I've also met a lot of really great, talented people at RYR. People who I would trust and who I would like to spend more time with. I guess that's the same with all companies in all professions.
In the spirit of Christmas I take this opportunity to wish everyone a bit of happiness in their quest for a paying job in flying, whether the funding comes from Mummy and Daddy, a huge a win on the National Lottery, a bit of an Inheritance, a job in the City ripping off the taxpayer or merely a good credit rating leading to an intimate relationship with Mr VISA.
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smith, yes, well done. You are showing perspective. I hope it is a change of character and indeed not for the benefit of your reputation on pprune?
By the way, who is it that you work for?
Mr Beak
Sorry, been away from this for a while. I have been discussed this point before. I have said what has happened to the industry resembles a great pile of steaming excrement. At the same time I state that it is here to say. And everyone else that takes a similar viewpoint to your own are completely correct. I have contributed to the rot. There will always be reasons for and against. Let me once again explain my reason.
I will always acknowledge that there is balance to a constructive arguement. Whilst I understand the underlying reasons for earlier rants, I can't however see beyond what is occuring here. To say I am comfortably arrogant about it isn't true either. Arrogance is one of the worst traits that can be adopted by any human. I could never be comfortable with arrogance and anyone who feels the necessity to demonstrate it can go **** themselves royaly! I neither feel comfortable. Not in the 'true' sense of the word. Anybody who feels 'comfortable' in this industry are either naive, apathetic or just not that bright. I am however comfortable with my decision. Largely because it has worked well for me so far. You also have to accept that it isn't without its consequences. When in Ryanair you must maintain an open mind and be prepared for any eventualities. People who strut around this company who believe that they are immune to everything need to wake up. Those who show reality don't generally end up disappointed.
As for other viable routes. There aren't many left. If there were, I and thousands upon thousands of others would have been all over them. And that's not to say that I personaly didn't try. I swam in a holding pool, I ferried aircraft, I embarked on a FIC, I sought out a non-paying safety pilot role; I even turned down a job with t&cs that made absolutely no economic sense for both me and my family. Future options were non existant. Unfortunately the likes of Ryanair know this. Many others have caught on to this fact as well.
By the way, who is it that you work for?
Mr Beak
The very fact that the both of you give credence to this player/ game model to me shows you know that what you are doing is not right. It's an expression used by people who are comfortably arrogant that they are doing something they know is wrong, but they are benefitting from it so they don't 'care' for peoples opinions. It is an expression used by people trying to shift the blame or responsibility.
I will always acknowledge that there is balance to a constructive arguement. Whilst I understand the underlying reasons for earlier rants, I can't however see beyond what is occuring here. To say I am comfortably arrogant about it isn't true either. Arrogance is one of the worst traits that can be adopted by any human. I could never be comfortable with arrogance and anyone who feels the necessity to demonstrate it can go **** themselves royaly! I neither feel comfortable. Not in the 'true' sense of the word. Anybody who feels 'comfortable' in this industry are either naive, apathetic or just not that bright. I am however comfortable with my decision. Largely because it has worked well for me so far. You also have to accept that it isn't without its consequences. When in Ryanair you must maintain an open mind and be prepared for any eventualities. People who strut around this company who believe that they are immune to everything need to wake up. Those who show reality don't generally end up disappointed.
As for other viable routes. There aren't many left. If there were, I and thousands upon thousands of others would have been all over them. And that's not to say that I personaly didn't try. I swam in a holding pool, I ferried aircraft, I embarked on a FIC, I sought out a non-paying safety pilot role; I even turned down a job with t&cs that made absolutely no economic sense for both me and my family. Future options were non existant. Unfortunately the likes of Ryanair know this. Many others have caught on to this fact as well.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 15th Dec 2009 at 21:24.
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blackred
A modular course and type rating can be done for nearly the same money as it is to do the ctc course and placement which employ so many of your EZY collegues. And some of the new ones will be asked to work as CC. And is it true a lot of them only go in there for 6 months? Easyjet are no angels either would it be fair to say? Most cadets at FR get between 30-50 hours a month at least in the winter. Their not told to completely do one after 6 months. In the context of EZY/ctc/cadets, is what I said fairly accurate?
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Wait and see what Ryanairs next move is after the recent CTC/ Easyjet contract - Ryanair pride themselves on being at the forefront of exploitation.
Callsign Kilo, you come across as intelligent and your process towards becoming a pilot sounds like a self supported, reasoned and rational way into the airlines - no one can argue with it. The problem is the majority of people at Ryanair didn't pursue your way, they are like Lucair84 from Italy who will spend any amount of money so that he doesn't have to 'waste his time' like the rest of us and so 'he can get into a jet lol' (yeah, very funny) - He seems fairly fresh out of flight training and certainly hasn't given the industry the fairest of tests - recruitment in the most part in the Northern Hemisphere happens October - March. Why do people make this scheme their first port of call? Why not just try and have someone want you for the skills you have worked hard to attain rather than your short term cash injection? Different people feel different things I suppose, horses for courses and all that. Patience is a virtue......
Callsign Kilo, you come across as intelligent and your process towards becoming a pilot sounds like a self supported, reasoned and rational way into the airlines - no one can argue with it. The problem is the majority of people at Ryanair didn't pursue your way, they are like Lucair84 from Italy who will spend any amount of money so that he doesn't have to 'waste his time' like the rest of us and so 'he can get into a jet lol' (yeah, very funny) - He seems fairly fresh out of flight training and certainly hasn't given the industry the fairest of tests - recruitment in the most part in the Northern Hemisphere happens October - March. Why do people make this scheme their first port of call? Why not just try and have someone want you for the skills you have worked hard to attain rather than your short term cash injection? Different people feel different things I suppose, horses for courses and all that. Patience is a virtue......
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because beak no one else will be taking on cadets between now and March obviously....those that do will take maybe 2 or 3.needless to say they can be filled without even making the job vacancy public.
Can things at RYR get any worse?
When I finished my IR in 2008 I bought a nice little book by an American chap. Although Yank-centric and a little dated due to the subsequent LO-CO revolution in Europe, it gave me plenty of helpful suggestions for pursuing a career in Aviation outside of the prevailing SSTR mould. At the time I had no interest in joining LO-COs and made dozens of very good contacts. I have no doubt that those seedlings would bear fruit in time.
The only reason I'm not going further down that route is my age. If I were 10 or even 5 years younger, I wouldn't choose to spend money in order to join a LO-CO and be treated like scum in order to prop up the profits of a selfish business model. I would be more tempted towards the real flying jobs. After all, what would you rather look back on when you retire: 35 years flying 6 sectors a day around Europe staring at the FMS or 35 years of mixed experience, including many different aircraft types, airports large and small, different companies and cultures? If your main aim in life is to make money this point will be lost on you.
I know we're in a recession and these are desperate times but there are options out there for commercial jobs if you really want to earn a living as a pilot, but they are not easy to find and most people these days are very, very lazy. You will have to be patient, but if your motivation is to 'fly' rather than gain some kind of ego boost in a jet, merely pressing CMD B at 1000ft 4 times a day, then you need to concentrate your energy on a long term strategy. When you're in your twenties you have so many more career options than you realise.
As for RYR, if your circumstances are such that it's an economically viable or the only option for you, then go for it. It's not as bad as the anti-Ryanair brigade suggest but make sure you go in with your eyes (and cheque-book) wide open. Grow a thick skin. You will be blamed by all and sundry for the demise of the industry. Accept it, move on. You'll earn a living. You'll get your hours. The World won't end because you joined RYR. The accountants and capitalist culture of money greed that has actually created the LO-CO phenomenon (excusing it as a social service because it brings low-cost travel to the great unwashed) will get away to their tax-haven mansions scot-free of any blame. Not that they would care anyway.
On a different but not incompatible tack, I have little sympathy for the older pilots who come on here crying about the demise of terms and pay. The good old days were the antithesis of today's LO-CO culture, where Governments (i.e. the Taxpayer) propped up unsound and wasteful business models, when only the wealthy travelled, paying over the odds for their tickets, allowing pilots to line their silk pockets working 'occasionally' before retiring on glorious pensions. No wonder those pilots are unhappy.
Obviously we all dream of a fairer industry; a meritocracy where only the most talented and hard-working get to the top, regardless of where the money comes from; a safer system where training is not rushed at TRTOs in order to get cheap cadets on the line and where flying experience is a pre-requisite for the more demanding jobs; a system where pilots are paid in proportion to their skills and time, and where Airlines value their human resources instead of finding every excuse to belittle them.
But this is 2009 and we're living in a society that rewards profit making above all else. It's not going to change. Make you own way through this mess but ignore advice at your peril.
RANT over....
....Um, what was the original post?
When I finished my IR in 2008 I bought a nice little book by an American chap. Although Yank-centric and a little dated due to the subsequent LO-CO revolution in Europe, it gave me plenty of helpful suggestions for pursuing a career in Aviation outside of the prevailing SSTR mould. At the time I had no interest in joining LO-COs and made dozens of very good contacts. I have no doubt that those seedlings would bear fruit in time.
The only reason I'm not going further down that route is my age. If I were 10 or even 5 years younger, I wouldn't choose to spend money in order to join a LO-CO and be treated like scum in order to prop up the profits of a selfish business model. I would be more tempted towards the real flying jobs. After all, what would you rather look back on when you retire: 35 years flying 6 sectors a day around Europe staring at the FMS or 35 years of mixed experience, including many different aircraft types, airports large and small, different companies and cultures? If your main aim in life is to make money this point will be lost on you.
I know we're in a recession and these are desperate times but there are options out there for commercial jobs if you really want to earn a living as a pilot, but they are not easy to find and most people these days are very, very lazy. You will have to be patient, but if your motivation is to 'fly' rather than gain some kind of ego boost in a jet, merely pressing CMD B at 1000ft 4 times a day, then you need to concentrate your energy on a long term strategy. When you're in your twenties you have so many more career options than you realise.
As for RYR, if your circumstances are such that it's an economically viable or the only option for you, then go for it. It's not as bad as the anti-Ryanair brigade suggest but make sure you go in with your eyes (and cheque-book) wide open. Grow a thick skin. You will be blamed by all and sundry for the demise of the industry. Accept it, move on. You'll earn a living. You'll get your hours. The World won't end because you joined RYR. The accountants and capitalist culture of money greed that has actually created the LO-CO phenomenon (excusing it as a social service because it brings low-cost travel to the great unwashed) will get away to their tax-haven mansions scot-free of any blame. Not that they would care anyway.
On a different but not incompatible tack, I have little sympathy for the older pilots who come on here crying about the demise of terms and pay. The good old days were the antithesis of today's LO-CO culture, where Governments (i.e. the Taxpayer) propped up unsound and wasteful business models, when only the wealthy travelled, paying over the odds for their tickets, allowing pilots to line their silk pockets working 'occasionally' before retiring on glorious pensions. No wonder those pilots are unhappy.
Obviously we all dream of a fairer industry; a meritocracy where only the most talented and hard-working get to the top, regardless of where the money comes from; a safer system where training is not rushed at TRTOs in order to get cheap cadets on the line and where flying experience is a pre-requisite for the more demanding jobs; a system where pilots are paid in proportion to their skills and time, and where Airlines value their human resources instead of finding every excuse to belittle them.
But this is 2009 and we're living in a society that rewards profit making above all else. It's not going to change. Make you own way through this mess but ignore advice at your peril.
RANT over....
....Um, what was the original post?
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Beak, I get the impression that we are going round in circles here? Possibly understandable when strong opinions and; dare to say it, some assumptions are being voiced.
First of all, I didn't publish my eventual route to the unholy of unholies in order to give myself any justification. I did it to show what actually happened when things were considered to be quite bouyant in terms of jobs. I waited just over a year before starting with Ryanair. Putting this into perspective, a year is nothing. A training buddy of mine has only recently received a job offer with a well regarded UK TP operator. He waited over two and a half years without a sniff of anything substantial. Others will wait double that, treble that. Many hundreds will never get a job. That's the cold hard fact of it. Patience is completely exhausted. Whatever virtues they posess will be applied elsewhere.
To balance this out a bit, I show agreement to the fact that there are people who happily throw vast sums of cash at something in order to get the desired result. Ryanair are today's perpetrator. However I remember other arguements with similar noises to this one. If we stick to the low houred pilot and that elusive first job, then once upon a time it was integrated courses that were spawn of all evils. Modular students and those embarking upon the traditional self improvement route couldn't get jobs. Yet Ollie, Toby and James (the most common names of cadets from Oxford on FR TR courses I might add) were walking into the likes of BA, bmi, Jet2, easyJet etc with less than 200 hours total time! They were paying way over the odds for a CPL/IR and people were pointing the finger at them. These people were regarded as impatient, spoilt que jumpers who had no respect for the system. They were setting a benchmark to all future trainees. Cash is the answer!
Same thing goes with the SSTR and Line Training package. It left many by the wayside and caused heated debate after debate. Yet MyTravel (now Thomas Cook), bmi, Astraeus and easyJet all entertained it. I have come across many people who have achieved employment through it. It sends out the same rotten message and sets the level of expectation for future generations. And by the way both examples have consequences for the future of airline pilots.
You mention people like Lucair84 splashing the cash like a pilot equivalent of Paris Hilton on Rodeo Drive. Ryanair certainly have their fair few of these characters. But to say that the majoirty of people who go to Ryanair are like this is baseless. There are many who have sacrificed a lot or indeed have waited their time. Others didn't. I met many during my TR course a few summers ago. Every one completely naive and wet behind the ears. Yet they had nothing to compare Ryanair to and felt what they were doing was right. Every one was from an integrated background and I personally believed that they were feeling certain pressures. Course mates were off to BA, Lufthansa and KLM. They sniggered at little Dicky who went off to Air Southwest on the Dash. They were appauled that I came directly from a FIC.
You talk about empolyers wanting you for the skills that you attained during training. In my opinion they only want you because you are cheap and in some cases they can mould you into something that they eventually need. In Ryanair's case add the something that they can make money from aspect. Pilots will never have the upper hand again because the industry has become too small for them. It's a buyers market and the airline is the buyer. This won't change until this long awaited global pilot shortage occurs. I'm sure it's just around the corner. Just follow the yellow brick road, somewhere under a rainbow, far far away, in never-never land!
First of all, I didn't publish my eventual route to the unholy of unholies in order to give myself any justification. I did it to show what actually happened when things were considered to be quite bouyant in terms of jobs. I waited just over a year before starting with Ryanair. Putting this into perspective, a year is nothing. A training buddy of mine has only recently received a job offer with a well regarded UK TP operator. He waited over two and a half years without a sniff of anything substantial. Others will wait double that, treble that. Many hundreds will never get a job. That's the cold hard fact of it. Patience is completely exhausted. Whatever virtues they posess will be applied elsewhere.
To balance this out a bit, I show agreement to the fact that there are people who happily throw vast sums of cash at something in order to get the desired result. Ryanair are today's perpetrator. However I remember other arguements with similar noises to this one. If we stick to the low houred pilot and that elusive first job, then once upon a time it was integrated courses that were spawn of all evils. Modular students and those embarking upon the traditional self improvement route couldn't get jobs. Yet Ollie, Toby and James (the most common names of cadets from Oxford on FR TR courses I might add) were walking into the likes of BA, bmi, Jet2, easyJet etc with less than 200 hours total time! They were paying way over the odds for a CPL/IR and people were pointing the finger at them. These people were regarded as impatient, spoilt que jumpers who had no respect for the system. They were setting a benchmark to all future trainees. Cash is the answer!
Same thing goes with the SSTR and Line Training package. It left many by the wayside and caused heated debate after debate. Yet MyTravel (now Thomas Cook), bmi, Astraeus and easyJet all entertained it. I have come across many people who have achieved employment through it. It sends out the same rotten message and sets the level of expectation for future generations. And by the way both examples have consequences for the future of airline pilots.
You mention people like Lucair84 splashing the cash like a pilot equivalent of Paris Hilton on Rodeo Drive. Ryanair certainly have their fair few of these characters. But to say that the majoirty of people who go to Ryanair are like this is baseless. There are many who have sacrificed a lot or indeed have waited their time. Others didn't. I met many during my TR course a few summers ago. Every one completely naive and wet behind the ears. Yet they had nothing to compare Ryanair to and felt what they were doing was right. Every one was from an integrated background and I personally believed that they were feeling certain pressures. Course mates were off to BA, Lufthansa and KLM. They sniggered at little Dicky who went off to Air Southwest on the Dash. They were appauled that I came directly from a FIC.
You talk about empolyers wanting you for the skills that you attained during training. In my opinion they only want you because you are cheap and in some cases they can mould you into something that they eventually need. In Ryanair's case add the something that they can make money from aspect. Pilots will never have the upper hand again because the industry has become too small for them. It's a buyers market and the airline is the buyer. This won't change until this long awaited global pilot shortage occurs. I'm sure it's just around the corner. Just follow the yellow brick road, somewhere under a rainbow, far far away, in never-never land!
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 16th Dec 2009 at 15:18.
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go around flaps what you said, for once i agree 100% with.the ezy/ctc scheme is absolutely appauling, insulting and shameful.it stinks.im ashamed of having anything to do with a company that would stoop so low.the worrying thing though is this is now a race to the bottom.ezy are trying to cut crew costs per seat.seemingly ezy crew are more expensive than ryr crew.makes u wonder how mol will retaliate, no way he will be out done in cost cutting!?makes you wonder exactly how poor the deals offered to new hires will get?
This is definetly not the time to be a contract f/o i.e ctc/brk. unfortunately i can see alot having to file for bankruptcy.I think this is about to spiral out of control.i have heard their is a queue of cadets lookin to sign the deal offered by this cancer to the industry that is ctc. the people who operate this ctc con job both instructors/managers are the same pilots who have had their pockets lined during the good years and now they shaft the next generation of hopefulls and naive wanabees.they make me sick.how they sleep at night knowing they are driving young men/women to almost certain bankruptcy,despair and constant financial stress is beyond me.hang your head in same you are an insult to the piloting fraternity.heres to karma!!
unfortunately this industry is now driven much like the banks by ruthless greed.talk about profit at all cost!i for one hope the ba cabin crew nail willy walsh to the door.hes going to take 750k this year, the same man was a union hot head in ei.oh how the gamekeeper has turned poacher.
This is definetly not the time to be a contract f/o i.e ctc/brk. unfortunately i can see alot having to file for bankruptcy.I think this is about to spiral out of control.i have heard their is a queue of cadets lookin to sign the deal offered by this cancer to the industry that is ctc. the people who operate this ctc con job both instructors/managers are the same pilots who have had their pockets lined during the good years and now they shaft the next generation of hopefulls and naive wanabees.they make me sick.how they sleep at night knowing they are driving young men/women to almost certain bankruptcy,despair and constant financial stress is beyond me.hang your head in same you are an insult to the piloting fraternity.heres to karma!!
unfortunately this industry is now driven much like the banks by ruthless greed.talk about profit at all cost!i for one hope the ba cabin crew nail willy walsh to the door.hes going to take 750k this year, the same man was a union hot head in ei.oh how the gamekeeper has turned poacher.