ATPL Holders Vs Available Jobs
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SteveAv
First of all I would like to say that my post was not intended to be nasty in any way.
I apologise to anyone who took it that way.
The point I was trying to get across is that the competition for employment at the end of many months or years of training is like no other profession.
Last winter, City Express advertised on their web site for pilots. They had 1200 replies for 5 positions.
Your chances of getting a job with them may be very slim, but this does not mean it's impossible.
I think the key to getting your first break is by getting a job airside, say as a dispatcher or in op's, and then networking as much as possible.
You should then treat every encounter as if it's with your future boss. You just never know who you may see sitting on the other side of the interview desk.
Ask yourself do you really want to be a commercial pilot and, if the answer is yes, get on with it, believe in yourself and ignore everybody who tries to tell you any different.
I am 38 years old this year and hoping to take my CPL skill's test in the next couple of weeks followed by my IR in May. It's taken me since August 1999 to get to this stage, due to the fact of working full time doing a 50 - 60 hours a week shiftwork job. Spent my savings and have remorgaged the house to pay for it. £30,000+. (very supportive wife)
It took me just over 3 years to get the ATPL exams done with Bristol due to working full time and I used all my holidays in the process. Not had a holiday with my family since time began.
But you know something, like I said in my original post, I am going to be a pilot unless my health lets me down. No ifs or buts, it's as simple as that.
I am absolutely adamant that one day I will be flying commercially unless I lose my licence due to ill health.
Think positive, follow your heart and never give up.
Aim high on your list and work down and not bottom of your list and up.
First of all I would like to say that my post was not intended to be nasty in any way.
I apologise to anyone who took it that way.
The point I was trying to get across is that the competition for employment at the end of many months or years of training is like no other profession.
Last winter, City Express advertised on their web site for pilots. They had 1200 replies for 5 positions.
Your chances of getting a job with them may be very slim, but this does not mean it's impossible.
I think the key to getting your first break is by getting a job airside, say as a dispatcher or in op's, and then networking as much as possible.
You should then treat every encounter as if it's with your future boss. You just never know who you may see sitting on the other side of the interview desk.
Ask yourself do you really want to be a commercial pilot and, if the answer is yes, get on with it, believe in yourself and ignore everybody who tries to tell you any different.
I am 38 years old this year and hoping to take my CPL skill's test in the next couple of weeks followed by my IR in May. It's taken me since August 1999 to get to this stage, due to the fact of working full time doing a 50 - 60 hours a week shiftwork job. Spent my savings and have remorgaged the house to pay for it. £30,000+. (very supportive wife)
It took me just over 3 years to get the ATPL exams done with Bristol due to working full time and I used all my holidays in the process. Not had a holiday with my family since time began.
But you know something, like I said in my original post, I am going to be a pilot unless my health lets me down. No ifs or buts, it's as simple as that.
I am absolutely adamant that one day I will be flying commercially unless I lose my licence due to ill health.
Think positive, follow your heart and never give up.
Aim high on your list and work down and not bottom of your list and up.
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All the way!!!
I am an Airline Captain, flying B757. I took the change you are talking about in 1990. That was very difficult time in aviation, no jobs available.
I stayed on my decision and went all the way. This process took time and effort. Many of my friends who did the training at the same time never qualified. The gave up because the life was too damn hard to find a job as a pilot!
Today, with JAR the things are better for the pilots in Europe. More expensive though, but less pilots available and the retirements opens jobs more and more. Also, there is less pilots seeking into this job due to increasing training costs! But, you have to make the decision and go all the way. CPL??...ok...finish your ATPL courses, do MCC and all what the airlines need and you will find a job. REMEMBER it's all about you.
I used to be in marketing business, there is a similarity. You, as a pilot will sell your self to the company like any other product you could think about. It's not what you can achieve by joining a certain airline, but what the airline can have out of you!!!! You have to be ambitious and prepared. While studing, try to get contacts with an airline and tell the Chief Pilot or who ever is in charge in that particular company of your status. Remind them, and when you have done with your education you let them know. They will appreciate your efforts. This is just one example, but you have to stay "tuned".
It's big money you talk about. But, if you have the quality needed, this job will pay it off. Terms and Conditions are getting less attractive on these days, but that is the trend of the entire aviation world.
Sometimes you have to take a step back to make 2 forward! Only tip I can give you is: Ask your self if you really want to give up a lot, then, maybe you will get reward at the end. It's HARD to make it through, but....it's up tp you.
I stayed on my decision and went all the way. This process took time and effort. Many of my friends who did the training at the same time never qualified. The gave up because the life was too damn hard to find a job as a pilot!
Today, with JAR the things are better for the pilots in Europe. More expensive though, but less pilots available and the retirements opens jobs more and more. Also, there is less pilots seeking into this job due to increasing training costs! But, you have to make the decision and go all the way. CPL??...ok...finish your ATPL courses, do MCC and all what the airlines need and you will find a job. REMEMBER it's all about you.
I used to be in marketing business, there is a similarity. You, as a pilot will sell your self to the company like any other product you could think about. It's not what you can achieve by joining a certain airline, but what the airline can have out of you!!!! You have to be ambitious and prepared. While studing, try to get contacts with an airline and tell the Chief Pilot or who ever is in charge in that particular company of your status. Remind them, and when you have done with your education you let them know. They will appreciate your efforts. This is just one example, but you have to stay "tuned".
It's big money you talk about. But, if you have the quality needed, this job will pay it off. Terms and Conditions are getting less attractive on these days, but that is the trend of the entire aviation world.
Sometimes you have to take a step back to make 2 forward! Only tip I can give you is: Ask your self if you really want to give up a lot, then, maybe you will get reward at the end. It's HARD to make it through, but....it's up tp you.
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SteveAv,
Given your initial question was about jobs and unemployed CPL's in the UK I don't think that anyone has alluded to the fact that you don't have to be British to take a job with a UK company so that makes even more people vying for the same job. Just listening to the airwaves where commercial traffic roams will illustrate that. You just have to have the right to work in the UK, a JAR licence and have the opinion that T&C's here are better than your own country. Not that there is a problem with that - if you want to apply for a job with Lufthansa, SAS, Iberia etc feel free....
(From what I gather Ryanair is a particularly good example of that - and I know that Eire is not part of the UK but it illustrates the point)
If a foreign airline goes under, expect the queue of new joiners for an airline who fly the same type to get a bit longer (with the low of hour remaining at the back)
Good luck to you whatever you decide.
RP
Given your initial question was about jobs and unemployed CPL's in the UK I don't think that anyone has alluded to the fact that you don't have to be British to take a job with a UK company so that makes even more people vying for the same job. Just listening to the airwaves where commercial traffic roams will illustrate that. You just have to have the right to work in the UK, a JAR licence and have the opinion that T&C's here are better than your own country. Not that there is a problem with that - if you want to apply for a job with Lufthansa, SAS, Iberia etc feel free....
(From what I gather Ryanair is a particularly good example of that - and I know that Eire is not part of the UK but it illustrates the point)
If a foreign airline goes under, expect the queue of new joiners for an airline who fly the same type to get a bit longer (with the low of hour remaining at the back)
Good luck to you whatever you decide.
RP
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There is probably enough new positions for 75-100 people (to account for expansion or new start ups, in a good year), and movement further up the food chain accounts for probably about 300 places for more experienced bods moving out of night freight/instructing/regional turbo props (again in a good year).
So all in all there is probably not much more requirement than 400 jobs per year available for new pilots This equates roughly to the output of 1 mid sized flying school.
So all in all there is probably not much more requirement than 400 jobs per year available for new pilots This equates roughly to the output of 1 mid sized flying school.
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As a rough and somewhat ignorant estimate I guess that each new aircraft will need 8 new flight crew to keep the aircraft flying most of the year and to account for sickness. Therefore, in these times I think that 100 fresh faces is possibly a little pessimistic.
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HWD,
The figures I quote are a rough average, and based on nothing more than observation of the UK airline industry over the last 7-8 years.
The past year has been a little exceptional, I guess, where airlines are trying to make up the lost ground when they did little or no recruiting post 11/09/01.
My totally unscientific and unverified numbers are probably not going to be too far off the mark. Maybe with some more knowledge and inside info could put me straight?
The figures I quote are a rough average, and based on nothing more than observation of the UK airline industry over the last 7-8 years.
The past year has been a little exceptional, I guess, where airlines are trying to make up the lost ground when they did little or no recruiting post 11/09/01.
My totally unscientific and unverified numbers are probably not going to be too far off the mark. Maybe with some more knowledge and inside info could put me straight?
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Its all a bit of a secret
The CAA are naturally coy about revealing pilot progression stats and are so are selective in the data they present - they dont want revenue affected.
i.e. Those exam halls may become thinner if the truth was outed
i.e. Those exam halls may become thinner if the truth was outed
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I applied to a major airline who recently advertised for F/O's with 500 hrs. Upon emailing the recruitment manager a week or so later, I got the reply 'I have received more than 1500 applications'.......
I guess theres quite a lot of us out there....
I guess theres quite a lot of us out there....
Anyway, not the point I was going to make, my point is that the good man is asking about pilots in the UK..I know it's not exactly the best question the man could ask, since UK airlines do not only recruit UK pilots. For example I also applied to this UK airline, and I'm not from the UK, and I don't think I'm the only non-UK citizen applying for UK jobs so the 1500 jobless pilots in the UK could well be the correct figure, but there are lots more outside of the UK who can work in the UK, which makes the market just a little bit worse for you guys
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Yes thats a good point....
The JAA has inceased cost, time and difficulty levels but paradoxicaly reduced opportunities for UK Pilots due to increased competition
Low intersest rates has fuelled this mini-boom we are having -
when the rates rise as they always do - then we may see some carnage matey... Oil prices wont help either..
The JAA has inceased cost, time and difficulty levels but paradoxicaly reduced opportunities for UK Pilots due to increased competition
Low intersest rates has fuelled this mini-boom we are having -
when the rates rise as they always do - then we may see some carnage matey... Oil prices wont help either..
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I was lucky enough to of jumped on the property ladder about 13 years ago which meant last year I had a lot of capital tied up in our house.
Not only is it very difficult these days for first time buyers to get onto the property ladder, but I would guess that there's not too many wannabes around with spare cash tied up in property that can released to help fund their dream.
How is a modern 21 year old still living at home with their parents going to raise the £30,000 +
How long would it take some 20+ year olds to save this much cash in today's average day job with today's salaries.
Give it 5 -10 years and the numbers of self improvers may start to dry up just like flying instructors seem to be doing right now.
I remember 12 years ago when I started my so called career as a long distance lorry driver, I was doing all the hours God sends and received poor pay. Employers attitude was "if you don't like it, there's the gate" crap.
Trying to get a decant job driving for a supermarket giant like Tesco's, Asda, Morrison's Etc or for some of the car carrying company's or even on the petrol delivering jobs with Shell, Esso, BP etc etc was like dead mans shoes. You had to of had a relative or friend working there to get you in.
Then the good old government made it a bit more difficult to obtain your HGV class 1 driving licence which meant you had to drive a smaller size HGV's (class 3's) for a period of time ( 1 or 2 years I think ) before you could then go onto take your test on the Articulated vehicles (class 1's) driving test.
With there being very very little work around for HGV class 3 drivers, nobody required them and lack of need along with the poor treatment received by all meant very few bothered coming into the industry which has now caused one of the biggest shortfalls in the transport industry for years.
That's why the has been a boom over the last 5 years of HGV driver agencies advertising in newspapers jumping on the bandwagon of the shortage and trying to make a killing by taking a slice of cake out of the mega demand. HGV drivers wages have nearly doubled in the last 10 years.
HGV driver are now in the driving seat and are beginning to choose who they work for.
When I hear story's of the Irish low cost and others treating the pilots like they are idiots, I think of how things can change in a space of 5 to 10 years in the favour of the work force and I hope that's what's going to happen in aviation.
Hopefully the terms and conditions will take a U turn for the best and the rates for the job may go through the roof especially for new starters going onto their first turbo prop job.
Pilots especially very experienced ones are as far as I'm concerned a very expensive assets like aircraft and should be treated with the respect they deserve from employers before they start moving on to wherever the grass starts to be greener first..
One other thing for sure, I'm NOT paying in advance for a type rating. I do not have any problems with being bonded to a company for a few years but that's were I draw the line. I have already spent a fortune.
Am I talking rubbish???????
Apologies for poor English and spelling, left school with not a lot.
father murry
No offence taken and thanks for acknowledging with a second posting.
I was not going to lower myself to spoiling a good thread by getting into an argument with anybody who has a right to post their views here on pprune.
This is what it's all about, sharing views, knowledge and opinions.
Not only is it very difficult these days for first time buyers to get onto the property ladder, but I would guess that there's not too many wannabes around with spare cash tied up in property that can released to help fund their dream.
How is a modern 21 year old still living at home with their parents going to raise the £30,000 +
How long would it take some 20+ year olds to save this much cash in today's average day job with today's salaries.
Give it 5 -10 years and the numbers of self improvers may start to dry up just like flying instructors seem to be doing right now.
I remember 12 years ago when I started my so called career as a long distance lorry driver, I was doing all the hours God sends and received poor pay. Employers attitude was "if you don't like it, there's the gate" crap.
Trying to get a decant job driving for a supermarket giant like Tesco's, Asda, Morrison's Etc or for some of the car carrying company's or even on the petrol delivering jobs with Shell, Esso, BP etc etc was like dead mans shoes. You had to of had a relative or friend working there to get you in.
Then the good old government made it a bit more difficult to obtain your HGV class 1 driving licence which meant you had to drive a smaller size HGV's (class 3's) for a period of time ( 1 or 2 years I think ) before you could then go onto take your test on the Articulated vehicles (class 1's) driving test.
With there being very very little work around for HGV class 3 drivers, nobody required them and lack of need along with the poor treatment received by all meant very few bothered coming into the industry which has now caused one of the biggest shortfalls in the transport industry for years.
That's why the has been a boom over the last 5 years of HGV driver agencies advertising in newspapers jumping on the bandwagon of the shortage and trying to make a killing by taking a slice of cake out of the mega demand. HGV drivers wages have nearly doubled in the last 10 years.
HGV driver are now in the driving seat and are beginning to choose who they work for.
When I hear story's of the Irish low cost and others treating the pilots like they are idiots, I think of how things can change in a space of 5 to 10 years in the favour of the work force and I hope that's what's going to happen in aviation.
Hopefully the terms and conditions will take a U turn for the best and the rates for the job may go through the roof especially for new starters going onto their first turbo prop job.
Pilots especially very experienced ones are as far as I'm concerned a very expensive assets like aircraft and should be treated with the respect they deserve from employers before they start moving on to wherever the grass starts to be greener first..
One other thing for sure, I'm NOT paying in advance for a type rating. I do not have any problems with being bonded to a company for a few years but that's were I draw the line. I have already spent a fortune.
Am I talking rubbish???????
Apologies for poor English and spelling, left school with not a lot.
father murry
No offence taken and thanks for acknowledging with a second posting.
I was not going to lower myself to spoiling a good thread by getting into an argument with anybody who has a right to post their views here on pprune.
This is what it's all about, sharing views, knowledge and opinions.
Last edited by EGCC4284; 6th Apr 2005 at 14:02.
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Pilots especially very experienced ones are as far as I'm concerned a very expensive assets like aircraft and should be treated with the respect they deserve from employers before they start moving on to wherever the grass starts to be greener first..
On a similar note - I read a thing on a small operators website the other day saying that 'we' - self funding fATPL holders - effectively subsidise the industry by paying for our own training and therefore contribute keeping the cost of air travel affordable for everyone.
Interesting way to look at all the hard work we've put in! (Not to mention all the money we've spent)
Before anyone has a go....I really dont think we deserve to be handed a job on a plate....I realise many of the people we all hope to be recruited by have been in our situation - I bet its a rare thing to hear a Chief Pilot/Flight Ops director say they walked straight into a job after their training.... Its just the way it is right now.
What irks me bigtime is that companies dont bother to reply to you at all. I mean, come on, would it spell financial ruin to employ a student/schoolkid in a Saturday job paying a fiver an hour and ask them to simply send out the thanks but no thanks letters to us as their only duty? (daft idea, but you get my point)
One other thing for sure, I'm NOT paying in advance for a type rating. I do not have any problems with being bonded to a company for a few years but that's were I draw the line. I have already spent a fortune.
Am I talking rubbish???????
The moneys got to run out sometime!!
We'll get there....It would just be nice if we got any sense at all that the airlines/operators realised that we've all given up a lot for this.
I would feel like Id won the lottery if I was offered a flying job right now, but they should feel just as lucky that 'we' are out there and willing to keep trying! (And a letter would be appreciated!)
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Im always amazed by how many new guys are coming into the industry. I would guess that its much easier to finance a cpl with either the bank or remortgage than it was 10 years ago.
I have to say when I gave up a good job to become a flying instructor I decided it was something I had to do. I didnt want to spend my life wondering what could have been and wanted to live my dream.
I now fly a medium short haul jet. Last week alone I did 55hrs duty. Im broke, constantly tired, fed up of having no hobbies, no weekends, cant go to weddings, funerals or even the dentist. Having moved twice allready with this company its likely the company is going to move me once again. Its hard for my wife, kids and myself. Its difficult to put any roots down and I even avoid buying large items of furniture so its easier to move house. Pretty soon the company is will have to start putting prozac in our coffee!
I have been trying to get a new job but even with a good few thousand jet hours no success yet. There are many downsides to being a pilot and if you have a reasonable job allready it may take many years to make all the money back. Been flying commercially for seven years but if I could find the right opportunity would leave tomorrow.
Its not a career to take lightly.
I have to say when I gave up a good job to become a flying instructor I decided it was something I had to do. I didnt want to spend my life wondering what could have been and wanted to live my dream.
I now fly a medium short haul jet. Last week alone I did 55hrs duty. Im broke, constantly tired, fed up of having no hobbies, no weekends, cant go to weddings, funerals or even the dentist. Having moved twice allready with this company its likely the company is going to move me once again. Its hard for my wife, kids and myself. Its difficult to put any roots down and I even avoid buying large items of furniture so its easier to move house. Pretty soon the company is will have to start putting prozac in our coffee!
I have been trying to get a new job but even with a good few thousand jet hours no success yet. There are many downsides to being a pilot and if you have a reasonable job allready it may take many years to make all the money back. Been flying commercially for seven years but if I could find the right opportunity would leave tomorrow.
Its not a career to take lightly.
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Utlility
Nice views of Europe from the office window
Professional job that commands respect (from many not all)
Good pay for some.
Unfortunately the downside for many is the early starts
late finishes & long days. Weekend working and sitting
next to somebody you dont know that well for hours on
end.
The novelty wears off for some...
Its not a very family friendly job. .. Its a shame more part time positions aren't available so that the work-life balance thing is
sorted... although that would make paying off loans more difficult..
Professional job that commands respect (from many not all)
Good pay for some.
Unfortunately the downside for many is the early starts
late finishes & long days. Weekend working and sitting
next to somebody you dont know that well for hours on
end.
The novelty wears off for some...
Its not a very family friendly job. .. Its a shame more part time positions aren't available so that the work-life balance thing is
sorted... although that would make paying off loans more difficult..
Since 1945 we have never ever run out of pilots - there is seemingly, and regretably, and inexhaustable supply!
Whatever number you crunch the fact is there will be at least 10 other equally qualified bright talented pleasant Others applying and in the running for it. So its never going to be easy.
Post Sept 11th it was practically impossible for 18 months to get a job. Then for a year it was very hard. Now it has become hard.
Its therefore not a bad time to be in or be starting training. It'll probably be even better in a years time.
--------
Looking into the PPRuNe Crystal Ball I see some interesting swirls of mist:
The numbers of people able and willing to self sponsor an ATPL course may dramatically fall in the coming years.
The vast majority of self sponsors are using money taken out of property (their own or their parents) and borrowed from the banks as career loans. Lets fast forward 18 months and put interest rates back at their historical norm of 6% and lets knock a very modest 10% of house prices. We'll also assume that the UK economy has faltered slightly from its Longest Period Of Growth In History.
1) Mum and Dad will not feel comfortable with remortgaging the house for Junior when its going down in value.
2) Juniors house bought anytime since 2002 will be worth less than he paid for it with a tiny deposit so there is no equity there.
3) Everyone is groaning under the weight of mortgage repayments anyway.
4) Banks will be very very careful with issuing debt to people. A 'business plan' to become and airline pilot is going to be a very hard sell.
5) The cheaper North American flight training route has all but been killed off by the ramification of Sept11th.
6) The combined cost of an Integrated ATPL course followed by a £23k self bonded loan to join an airline cadet scheme is now in the region of £100,000. This is simply too much money to justify when the take-home pay from such a job will be about £2,600 a month average for the first 10 years. With a BoE base rate at 6% you would be paying for a straight loan something like 7.9% £100k over 10 years would therefore cost £1196 a month to repay. Knock off your utilities, car, council tax, rent and food and you are going to be crippled for a decade.
7) Flying training is set to become more expensive. The whole fleet of UK training aircraft now has an average build date of 1985. Instructors with experience are now becoming very rare indeed. To attract experienced instructors to stay is going to take more money and better terms and conditions.
-------
Cheers
WWW
Whatever number you crunch the fact is there will be at least 10 other equally qualified bright talented pleasant Others applying and in the running for it. So its never going to be easy.
Post Sept 11th it was practically impossible for 18 months to get a job. Then for a year it was very hard. Now it has become hard.
Its therefore not a bad time to be in or be starting training. It'll probably be even better in a years time.
--------
Looking into the PPRuNe Crystal Ball I see some interesting swirls of mist:
The numbers of people able and willing to self sponsor an ATPL course may dramatically fall in the coming years.
The vast majority of self sponsors are using money taken out of property (their own or their parents) and borrowed from the banks as career loans. Lets fast forward 18 months and put interest rates back at their historical norm of 6% and lets knock a very modest 10% of house prices. We'll also assume that the UK economy has faltered slightly from its Longest Period Of Growth In History.
1) Mum and Dad will not feel comfortable with remortgaging the house for Junior when its going down in value.
2) Juniors house bought anytime since 2002 will be worth less than he paid for it with a tiny deposit so there is no equity there.
3) Everyone is groaning under the weight of mortgage repayments anyway.
4) Banks will be very very careful with issuing debt to people. A 'business plan' to become and airline pilot is going to be a very hard sell.
5) The cheaper North American flight training route has all but been killed off by the ramification of Sept11th.
6) The combined cost of an Integrated ATPL course followed by a £23k self bonded loan to join an airline cadet scheme is now in the region of £100,000. This is simply too much money to justify when the take-home pay from such a job will be about £2,600 a month average for the first 10 years. With a BoE base rate at 6% you would be paying for a straight loan something like 7.9% £100k over 10 years would therefore cost £1196 a month to repay. Knock off your utilities, car, council tax, rent and food and you are going to be crippled for a decade.
7) Flying training is set to become more expensive. The whole fleet of UK training aircraft now has an average build date of 1985. Instructors with experience are now becoming very rare indeed. To attract experienced instructors to stay is going to take more money and better terms and conditions.
-------
Cheers
WWW
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The question I'm asking myself these days is rather how many of these (frozen) ATPL holders are readily employable at short notice, in other words what the proportion is of applicants whose ratings are actually in check and who are in flying/sim practice with their knowledge topped up?
I suspect every airline/operator that receives 100s of CVs can't know how many of them come from people who would have to do some crash-course not only for the interview, but also to be able to present a logbook and licence with the right dates on...
I suspect every airline/operator that receives 100s of CVs can't know how many of them come from people who would have to do some crash-course not only for the interview, but also to be able to present a logbook and licence with the right dates on...
Last edited by FougaMagister; 19th Apr 2005 at 14:37.
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Jobs Vs Licence holders
Really interesting thread.
I too am in the same position. Qualified last August. No job. No sign of hope. But, half way through an FI course. I recommend Goodwodd Flying School, very professional.
I sincerely hope that what some of you are saying is true. The amount of rumours that the market is picking up is encouraging. Although, when you hear of 1000,1200 or 1500! applications for jobs, it's difficult to remain optimistic.
The fact that we are all still trying to land that job with the amount of bad press out there and not given up, is a credit to us all.
I do however find it amusing that we are in one of the worst industries to find work in (probably with the exceptioon of acting) and can laugh about it.
Has anyone experienced the following:
1. Sitting in a pub telling people you have sent x 100 number of CVs and get no/little response apart from Please F*uck Off letters - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
2. Sitting in a bar (well we are the 3rd highest drinkers) telling people that you called a training captain and he said to you "how many hours?, How old?, NO CHANCE" - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
3. Sitting in a trendy cafe (probably having a Gin and Tonic) telling people that you are a trained professional pilot but currently work in a call centre for £5.85ph. Or even worse, teach people to fly for £12 ph flying. - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief
4. Or just run into people that have not seen you for a while because you have been training and say, "you've put on weight".
You-re thinking "up yours scary face", but say "have i".
It just goes to show that being a pilot is not all sex, fast cars, all year tans and rock and roll.
I too am in the same position. Qualified last August. No job. No sign of hope. But, half way through an FI course. I recommend Goodwodd Flying School, very professional.
I sincerely hope that what some of you are saying is true. The amount of rumours that the market is picking up is encouraging. Although, when you hear of 1000,1200 or 1500! applications for jobs, it's difficult to remain optimistic.
The fact that we are all still trying to land that job with the amount of bad press out there and not given up, is a credit to us all.
I do however find it amusing that we are in one of the worst industries to find work in (probably with the exceptioon of acting) and can laugh about it.
Has anyone experienced the following:
1. Sitting in a pub telling people you have sent x 100 number of CVs and get no/little response apart from Please F*uck Off letters - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
2. Sitting in a bar (well we are the 3rd highest drinkers) telling people that you called a training captain and he said to you "how many hours?, How old?, NO CHANCE" - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
3. Sitting in a trendy cafe (probably having a Gin and Tonic) telling people that you are a trained professional pilot but currently work in a call centre for £5.85ph. Or even worse, teach people to fly for £12 ph flying. - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief
4. Or just run into people that have not seen you for a while because you have been training and say, "you've put on weight".
You-re thinking "up yours scary face", but say "have i".
It just goes to show that being a pilot is not all sex, fast cars, all year tans and rock and roll.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Has anyone experienced the following:
1. Sitting in a pub telling people you have sent x 100 number of CVs and get no/little response apart from Please F*uck Off letters - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
2. Sitting in a bar (well we are the 3rd highest drinkers) telling people that you called a training captain and he said to you "how many hours?, How old?, NO CHANCE" - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
3. Sitting in a trendy cafe (probably having a Gin and Tonic) telling people that you are a trained professional pilot but currently work in a call centre for ?.85ph. Or even worse, teach people to fly for ?2 ph flying. - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief
4. Or just run into people that have not seen you for a while because you have been training and say, "you've put on weight".
You-re thinking "up yours scary face", but say "have i".
It just goes to show that being a pilot is not all sex, fast cars, all year tans and rock and roll.
1. Sitting in a pub telling people you have sent x 100 number of CVs and get no/little response apart from Please F*uck Off letters - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
2. Sitting in a bar (well we are the 3rd highest drinkers) telling people that you called a training captain and he said to you "how many hours?, How old?, NO CHANCE" - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief.
3. Sitting in a trendy cafe (probably having a Gin and Tonic) telling people that you are a trained professional pilot but currently work in a call centre for ?.85ph. Or even worse, teach people to fly for ?2 ph flying. - then laugh about it while your drinking companion sits there is disbelief
4. Or just run into people that have not seen you for a while because you have been training and say, "you've put on weight".
You-re thinking "up yours scary face", but say "have i".
It just goes to show that being a pilot is not all sex, fast cars, all year tans and rock and roll.
Even though companies ask for 2500 TT with TR and 500 on type instead of the 600TT no TR nothing on type I have to offer, hey at least they are asking for people
Join Date: Nov 2004
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if there is a "shortage" like WWW say, do not you think they will hire foreign pilots from US, canada, and Australia" and once again, we will have it deep in the $%#%$ !!!
here in france, we are so pissed that we reserve a little surprise for the 29th May.
I really think our politicians do nothing for their citizen. The guy from the previous post, say at least they hire people. Do you think they will really hire you and not a foreign guys with 3000h jet.
all I see, this world is for US people.if you go there, you can see most guys have a job, and they pay 3 times less what we pay here for a JAA license.
I think this situation is totally unfair, and Europe is loosing everyday against country who dont charge 20%tax on a training like england did.
keep tuned the 29th May, we will have a good laugh!
here in france, we are so pissed that we reserve a little surprise for the 29th May.
I really think our politicians do nothing for their citizen. The guy from the previous post, say at least they hire people. Do you think they will really hire you and not a foreign guys with 3000h jet.
all I see, this world is for US people.if you go there, you can see most guys have a job, and they pay 3 times less what we pay here for a JAA license.
I think this situation is totally unfair, and Europe is loosing everyday against country who dont charge 20%tax on a training like england did.
keep tuned the 29th May, we will have a good laugh!
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Althoug this isn't directly relevant to Wannabes, Virgin is currently recruiting about 70 new pilots a year. These pilots need to have a minimum of 3000 hours commercial or military jet experience. You wouldn't think that there are very many people out there who have that kind of experience, but we had (and are still receiving) thousands of applications. Now, I know Virgin is 'flavour of the month', but this is crazy!
Thing is, quite a few - though far from a majority - of these applicants are currently unemployed, so their success (should they achieve it) makes no difference to the people below them in the wannabe pile. Also, quite a few don't match the qualification requirements and so are rejected out of hand - but they're still looking!
Anecdotal evidence from other recruiting airlines suggests that applications for each new job are at historically high levels. In other words, there are still loads of you out there competing for each post. Inevitably, some - maybe many - will never succeed as their ability to fund currency flying while servicing their loans defeats them and they look to another field. My gut feeling is that there are quite a few of these...
There are no statistics, but I'd say that only the most determined (and the luckiest) will succeed.
Scroggs
Thing is, quite a few - though far from a majority - of these applicants are currently unemployed, so their success (should they achieve it) makes no difference to the people below them in the wannabe pile. Also, quite a few don't match the qualification requirements and so are rejected out of hand - but they're still looking!
Anecdotal evidence from other recruiting airlines suggests that applications for each new job are at historically high levels. In other words, there are still loads of you out there competing for each post. Inevitably, some - maybe many - will never succeed as their ability to fund currency flying while servicing their loans defeats them and they look to another field. My gut feeling is that there are quite a few of these...
There are no statistics, but I'd say that only the most determined (and the luckiest) will succeed.
Scroggs