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Cargolux details requested!

Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

Cargolux details requested!

Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:28
  #1521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Where the sun doesn't shine
Posts: 68
"FOs don't have enough hours for the insurance"

Originally Posted by flydog View Post
..... be interested to see if anyone knows any DECs that joined the company in last few years?
Besides the usual reason for DECs is that the FOs don't have enough hours for the insurance, it has nothing to do with ability.
There has never been a case where DECs were hired in CLX, except for contractors. None of them was working on a Cargolux contract, all employed by an agency. Those who were given a temporary CLX contract only had the chance to renew the contract once (maximum of 2 years according to LUX labour law. After these two years CLX has to lay them down or give them a permanent contract).

The FOs employed in CLX before 2015 ALL fulfill the requirements laid out in the Company OM-A to be upgraded (I suppose the minimum requirements in the OM reflect the hours required for the insurance). Most of the guys hold double the amount of hours required.

The underlying problem is the following:
With the introduction of the B-scale it became harder for CLX to attract enough new FOs. Consequently the minimum requirements were lowered. Still an unbalance between the numbers of captains and FOs today. In order to upgrade one FO the company needs to hire 2 new FOs, one as an replacement, the other one to keep the airplanes flying in the future.
CLX is slowly hitting THE top of the age-pyramide (approx. 100 guys eligible for pension)...... we'll see how that goes
Couchpotatoe is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2018, 19:04
  #1522 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: In the sky
Posts: 5
If the 2015 CWA is the problem, are there any updates to the new CWA because as far as I know the actual one is only valid until end of november? How his the recruitment situation? Has CLX enough applications or are they required to increase the conditions (also considering the very successful financial year 2017) maybe by terminating the B-scale?
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Old 16th Nov 2018, 06:11
  #1523 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Moon
Posts: 32
nope

Originally Posted by ChrisWithWings View Post
If the 2015 CWA is the problem, are there any updates to the new CWA because as far as I know the actual one is only valid until end of november? How his the recruitment situation? Has CLX enough applications or are they required to increase the conditions (also considering the very successful financial year 2017) maybe by terminating the B-scale?
The current CWA has been extended to August 2019 while negotiations take place.
Recruitment is still ongoing. Reducing the requirements to 1500hrs 10tons etc means they are not short of applications.
People want to jump from business jets or turboprops often getting low salaries, Cargolux is a step up and accept the b scale.

Problem is holding on to them, once they have enough hours they will see better conditions elsewhere and jumpship.

Its my understanding that good financial years mean nothing. They would even like to reduce our vacation days, pension, days off, 13th month, profit share etc.
The negotiations are going to be interesting
Aeroshizzle is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2018, 17:38
  #1524 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Milan
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by johnny73 View Post
Thanks.
Could you or anybody else give a rough idea of the roster a new joiner can expect in terms of sequence of days on / off ? and also....is commuting possible / accepted / tolerated ? Thank you.
...any hint will be appreciated. Thanks
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 07:00
  #1525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Moon
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by johnny73 View Post
...any hint will be appreciated. Thanks
From my experience
expect :
- 6 days off a month fixed, another 3 days floating around wherever they see fit.
- you can commute, your responsibility, but always arrive day before, so you need a hotel or crash pad,
- no travel benefits worth mentioning, since you cant access them for 6 months anyway. and they make it difficult to buy anything and forget bringing anyone with you, impossible
- if you ask for back to backs, which means putting both your 6 and 3 days together, so 9 days off, and 19 days away from home.
but you will be fatigued like hell, or stick 3 vacation days next to your days off bringing it to 12 days off 16 days away.
- work on your off days and vacation days because you're in probation and need to make a good impression that you're a team player and company minded. (they play with this probation hanging over your head, say no, work to rule)
- to be bombarded with roster changes,
- to buy an EASA ftl app to crosscheck your duty and rest limitations because you don't know otherwise.
- to have fun flying an iconic machine, into weird and wonderful destinations, with nice genuine crew, see the world, taste drink and see new cultures. just makes all the bullshit easier to swallow.

Last edited by Aeroshizzle; 20th Nov 2018 at 08:24. Reason: see post below
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Old 20th Nov 2018, 07:21
  #1526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Where the sun doesn't shine
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Aeroshizzle View Post
expect :
- work on your off days and vacation days because youre in probation and need to make a good impression that youre a team player and company minded.
Are you for real? You can't seriously expect someone to beliebe such a statement, can you?
Do you seriously believe that Cargolux would let go of you because you stick to your signed working contract and Collective Work Agreement??? But if this is what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night......
Couchpotatoe is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2018, 07:46
  #1527 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Moon
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Couchpotatoe View Post
Are you for real? You can't seriously expect someone to beliebe such a statement, can you?
Do you seriously believe that Cargolux would let go of you because you stick to your signed working contract and Collective Work Agreement??? But if this is what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night......
Do I believe Cargolux would let you go? No.
Did I mention any threat of termination in my previous post? No.
All I said was, its just expected, (only from what i experienced)
Maybe I should edit my previous post to include:
Its your decision in the end, accept or not. But I've been delayed/rescheduled to work on my days off or vacation, without the courtesy of a phone call or email. Its just there. I called, and said no, and the response I received was " oh? you're not willing to work on your off days to help out?" another call "are you still in probation?" How do you think this makes a new joiner feel?

I have refused to fly in all cases, deadhead home. and I'm still here.

Last edited by Aeroshizzle; 20th Nov 2018 at 08:36. Reason: grammar
Aeroshizzle is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2018, 07:56
  #1528 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Moon
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Couchpotatoe View Post
But if this is what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night......
now that you mention sleep .....
Aeroshizzle is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2018, 13:57
  #1529 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
Posts: 40
I can confirm that during your probation year some crew controllers will put pressure on you accepting the last minute back to back upon arrival in LUX or working on your days off.

Commuting is possible, but not always easy by air travel depending on where you live. I would not recommend it. Everything within driving distance is fine.

Roster during your first 2 years is pretty horrific. Do not believe the roster they show you during the assessment. Expect to be used to whatever is legal, especially during peak season. I highly recommend to divide your leave over the 13 rosters as it makes it more bearable. Expect very little roster stability and MASSIVE delays. You can only plan your block of 6 off days. And during your probation year they might pressure you into working these as well. You can say no! No questions asked. And if you choose the 2 for 1they will probably not call you again. When you get your first RBO it gets a little better.

Just to putt it into something easier to visualize: you will do roughly 2 rosters more productivity on the B-scale compared to the A-scale. 26 RBO’s and some leave days.

I personally would not have joined in hindsight. But that is easy to say. Good things; great network but unfortunately very short layovers usually. Great colleagues and good training. Also the tax and social system is quite good in LUX.

Last edited by SaulGoodman; 21st Nov 2018 at 05:55.
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 14:17
  #1530 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Milan
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
I can confirm that....

.
Originally Posted by Aeroshizzle View Post
From my experience expect.....
Dear both....many thanks for your objective job / roster description.
Really appreciated....Jumping from one horse to the other in the dark is not always the best move with a family on the back and age not exactly on my side.
So thanks again cheers
johnny73 is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2018, 16:23
  #1531 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 3
Hello,

I sat the Mollymawk tests but failed the spatial orientation one (ball in a rotating maze), allowed to have another go, failed again. That’s it, can reapply in 2 years.
from reading this thread, I might have dodged a bullet.
They seem to have a pilot shortage and put huge faIth in those tests... I’m a 4000+ hr regional airline Captain, never failed a sim, good record.... but I can’t steer a ball through a maze. I think I could practice that all my days and never pass it !
They have standards though so I have to suck it up.
hey ho. Stay safe.
Contract40 is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2018, 22:24
  #1532 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 53
I think you are correct dodging the bullet, 5 Type Rated pilots interviewed this month all current and qualified and operating for other carriers. All made it through day after day after day of selection stuff.....group excercises, role playing, technical exam, interviews, extensive medicals etc etc etc....all made it to sim and guess what? no one passed and no one offered a job!
Must be the only place you actually give BLOOD and do not get offered a job.

Conclusion is and we were advised this is all purposeful, they do not want to employ people and want to keep short of pilots to drive the working agreement and salary upwards. They do not care that they waste a lot of your time and money over and over ....more than 3000 euros in all to attend these exams and interviews, for nothing.
the law of averages says at least 1 person should have been offered a job if all was kosha.

Don't waste your time and money guys unless you really want to go there, if so wait until after the new working agreement is ratified.
flydog is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 11:35
  #1533 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Milan
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by flydog View Post
Conclusion is and we were advised this is all purposeful, they do not want to employ people and want to keep short of pilots to drive the working agreement and salary upwards
....this makes sense but in a somehow very twisted way. Management wasting money on recruiting but checkers failing candidates at the sim session at the rate you mentioned because of needs to stay short on pilots ? It sounds a bit of a stretch to me. On the other hand recruiting has been open for no less than 18 months from what I know, that also makes little sense considering the amount of candidates that must go through the process every month. How big is the demand ?

Maybe the word from somebody who was recently successful and was offered the job would help. Could you tell us how many of your badge passed ?

I am in between Mollymawk and the 3 days in house. Thanks
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 17:52
  #1534 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Findel
Posts: 4
I really don't think CLX want to keep short of pilots by purposely failing candidates. KLM needs plenty (hundreds) of pilots in the incoming future, so many guys would leave if called. Just read the previous posts to guess why. On top of that, many of our guys are going to retire in the next five to ten years. New aeroplanes are coming the next year, too. Thereby, we need people. I am personally ashamed of the tear and wear that you are going through to join us. I wish you had the same conditions as me, which you deserve, for sure. I'm extremely sorry for the hassle.
Procusto is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2018, 21:17
  #1535 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by Procusto View Post
I really don't think CLX want to keep short of pilots by purposely failing candidates. KLM needs plenty (hundreds) of pilots in the incoming future, so many guys would leave if called. Just read the previous posts to guess why. On top of that, many of our guys are going to retire in the next five to ten years. New aeroplanes are coming the next year, too. Thereby, we need people. I am personally ashamed of the tear and wear that you are going through to join us. I wish you had the same conditions as me, which you deserve, for sure. I'm extremely sorry for the hassle.
In your opinion what do you think, how CARGOLUX would accept very experienced F/O with Intercontinental experience, A330 and A340,NAT , EUR-SAM, ETOPS, RVSM ILS CAT3B no DH, and never flew BOEING, only Airbus FBW?

Sometime i think my wish to join cargo is to be tired of flying pax, and the problems associated to this.

About new planes , 3 more B744, next year, probably from NCA-NIPPON CARGO AIRLINES? As they said after a great inspection and a restructuring plan the only want to operate the 747-8.

The first year salaries are quite low, and living cost in Luxembourg is very high. Luxembourg is a nice country , i like it. With family with 2 children you have the state aid, per month, but house renting is huge. What the average salary expected NET? If you accept to work out of your roster, how ,much can you take home?

I see quite often the operation in FR24, i believe that you never do the same flight. Always a challenge. So variable. Today there where some curious flights, TPE-BKK, BAH-SGN,LUX-CGO, crossing the world every time , tonight 2 aircraft at same time ANC-ORD (LX-ECV and LX-VCM(Cutaway Livery) but "on the other side of the coin” a lot of delays.
trancada is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2018, 22:08
  #1536 (permalink)  
J74
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: I'd rather live close to home
Posts: 211
can anybody explain me the assessment in what consist, and how to prepare for the this mollymawk test? ....
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 23:27
  #1537 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Amantido
Posts: 776
Originally Posted by J74 View Post
can anybody explain me the assessment in what consist, and how to prepare for the this mollymawk test? ....
I was invited to the Mollymawk assessment for another airline but I guess the initial procedure is the same: you have to pay I think 300 euro for the CBT where you can practise to prepare for the assessment. However, you only have 10 practice runs if I remember correctly. And you have to buy it even if you do not want to prepare for it. At least this was the case for me with the other airline.
I know SkyTest added the maze test in one of their software, but can't tell about the others.
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 23:46
  #1538 (permalink)  
J74
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: I'd rather live close to home
Posts: 211
Banana joe,
thanks for reply...
is really so expensive this test preparation?!!
Ans is really helpful to pass the test in Cargolux?
how are the level of difficulty?
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:31
  #1539 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Amantido
Posts: 776
Originally Posted by J74 View Post
Banana joe,
thanks for reply...
is really so expensive this test preparation?!!
Ans is really helpful to pass the test in Cargolux?
how are the level of difficulty?
I have never taken the Mollymawk test, the only thing I can tell you is that it has been developed by a former DLR psychologist.
Banana Joe is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2018, 07:56
  #1540 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
Posts: 40
Trancada, with all the extra’s and per diems you roughly earn nett what you earn gross in the first year. You might work the ocassional extra day but bear in mind that you do not have many days at home as it is. Especially if you bring your family over you might treasure your time at home more than a few extra euro’s. Believe me, crewcontrol will use you to the max anyway! Expect many changes and massive delays! If I were you I would wait until the CWA negotiations have ended.

Whatever kind of experience you have, as long as you fulfill min req’s you should get an invite. Many guys here with only Airbus experience.

I do not believe they fail people on purpose. You receive a package from CLX to prepare mollymawk. No need to fork out hundreds of euro’s. The selection is tough but doable.
SaulGoodman is offline  

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