Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Freight Dogs
Reload this Page >

Cargolux details requested!

Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

Cargolux details requested!

Old 17th Mar 2018, 21:02
  #1481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: In the sky
Posts: 5
Where the Cargolux guys going?

Hello to all.

From my actual position, Cargolux still looks like an alternative to me. Following the thread for a while, I know that there some problems with the company (roster, decreasing conditions, etc.) and that people are leaving. The interesting question to me is now, what kind of people are leaving (captains, senior F/Os, etc.) and to which airlines they are leaving because it might make sense to apply directly to these companies where the guys with "more experience" are going.

Thank you for the help and a lot of honest answers in this thread.
ChrisWithWings is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2018, 20:12
  #1482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UR978 southbound
Posts: 56
Norwegian
Korean Airlines
Emirates
Etihad
Ryanair
Turkish Airlines
Silkway West
[not complete]

This does not imply that these airlines are much better. It all depends on the personal situation and how desperate/exhausted/sick-of-constant-roster-changes-that-screw-your-private-life/young/old these colleagues were.

If you describe your personal situation it would be easier to give you sound advice.
Our new Citation guys seem to be quite happy at CV. They earn a few € more and the aircraft is bigger. If this is all that counts.
final06 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2018, 07:35
  #1483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hole
Posts: 35
I know some guys who wanna join Cargolux from the ME 3. Unfortunately to get off for the Cargolux assessment, with the roster they are flying, is quite challenging, not to say impossible without calling sick.
AERO75 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2018, 08:07
  #1484 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UR978 southbound
Posts: 56
Sure.
The middle east slaves would like to come back to Europe.

However joining a cargo carrier in times when Trump begins a trade war with China and the rest of the world is probably not a smart career move.
final06 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2018, 16:04
  #1485 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: In the sky
Posts: 5
Thank you for the quick answers.

@final06:
Actually, I have approx. 1300 hours on 737 and total 2100, flying for a carrier where I don't beleave that they will survive the next bigger crisis and I don't like to be in a situation where I have to look for a new job during a crisis. I know that there will be no absolute job security on the flight deck. But I think you can control a little bit of the risk. I share your concerns regarding Trump and the world trade. But I also think that there is a reasonable likelihood that during next election the democrates will come to power again and everything will change to an open market. Furthermore, the Chinese also need the open trade to work against their debts. In regard to Ryanair, I am really interested cocnerning their new contracts because I think it canalso move the whole market a little bit.
I guess that you (final06: Rwy06 LUX?) work or have worked for Cargolux. How would you consider the future demand in Cargolux considering the leavings and retirements and maybe the upgrade chances considering these concerns (I aware the upgrade topic was discused from time to time, but with the new situation of the leavings things might have changed). Furthermore, are there any news reagrding Cargolux China?

Actually, for me it's collecting information to make a reasonable decision. The fact of the leaving is a warnign sign to me, but as often mention it depends on wher you coming from.

Anyway, already many thanks for your information in this thread.
ChrisWithWings is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2018, 19:45
  #1486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UR978 southbound
Posts: 56
Some comments:
A lot of guys will retire in appr. 10 yrs time.
CV hired 100+ pilots in the last 24 months on the B-scale. Hiring is still going on.
Predictions for upgrade scenarios would be speculative to say the least.
One thing to keep an eye on is the outcome of the next CWA.
The actual CWA plus EASA FTL are no joy.
Under these conditons you would upgrade with a salary plus of 1500€. (It used to be a horizontal move on the seniority list.)
Worldwide demand is growing but not in Europe.
I have seen quite a few carriers go belly up in no time. So don't wait for the democrats. On the other side CLX is "too big to fail" for LUX.
But they do not need 25+ aircraft necessarily. LUX airport serves every cargo airline which brings business. Also our worst competitors.
CV China is a white elephant so far. Or a Yeti as you wish. Some claim the project is still alive. I do not see this materialize.
If you live within 2-3 hrs driving from LUX it might be well worth to apply if you fulfill the requirements (1500 hrs 737 f.e.).

However I would like to encourage my colleagues to give their input too.
final06 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2018, 15:57
  #1487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hole
Posts: 35
good evening gents,

what is the average gross salary a fo may expect? is there any experience extra pay?

thanks
AERO75 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2018, 16:15
  #1488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Findel
Posts: 5
- A 737 type rating is by far better than a 747 type rating and slightly worse than an A320 TR. The market is tight and there are plenty of opportunities for 737 jockeys, like Norwegian or Jet2. By your level of experience, I presume that you are young. I don't see a major crisis in the following three years. Thereby, calm down and think about what you really would like to do. Life is a journey and you must make the most of it.

- According to the rumours, six or seven pilots had resigned in less than two weeks. Nonetheless, I receive farewell emails from colleagues on a weekly basis: a worrisome symptom. The working atmosphere is far from being optimal.

- The next CWA could or could not improve the current working conditions. Nonetheless, this company is not going to be what it was ten years ago. Besides, the Chinese are shareholders of Cargolux. The implications of this are unknown to the employees. If I were you, I would better forget about Cargolux China.

-Take your own decisions. Try to contact by Linkedin to a new joiner to get fresh information about how is life under the new scheme. Be aware of the omissions and inconsistencies of public claims and disclosed compensation.

I wish you luck and all the best, Chris
Procusto is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2018, 16:36
  #1489 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: In the sky
Posts: 5
@final06:

A possible new CWA might be a good point to be considered, you are right. During my research, I only found a statement of the LCGB in the newsletter (01/2016) regarding the changes of the CWA. As far as I can remember there wasn't stated when there will be new CWA negotiations. Do you have any idea when a new CWA (negotiations) will come?
I have read some statements of the LCGB. It seems to me that the CV's management stayed very strong while the union made the compromises (they mentioned a compromise of around 10 million € from their side), especially against new joiners. Furthermore, they said that they finally agreed to the CWA, although they know that there are some important points to be changed and improved. This doesn’t sound like a good union’s work. From this point of view, do you think a new CWA will bring improvements or even more decreasing conditions (and therefore joining as soon as possible would be better, if I finally decide to do so)?

@Aero75

Did you have look on the CV’s webpage? They publish some of their conditions (Unfortunately, I am not allowed to post web-links. But google for “cargolux working conditions”). I don’t know, but I think, these are based on the actual CWA.
ChrisWithWings is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2018, 18:40
  #1490 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UR978 southbound
Posts: 56
CWA -> 3 years
Short version:
Mistakes have been made, but the other union had the majority in the delegation and was legally able to sign the CWA without our consent.
Negotiations starting soon.
Management has 100+ ideas how to bring our conditions further down.
Our own colleagues betraying us while selling their OFF days left, right and center, also in critical times.
New generation not interested in politics.

Did you notice that our profession is in a downward spiral since many years?
Not only our profession, probably everyones in these times of accelerated capitalism and greedy managers.
final06 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2018, 21:31
  #1491 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: In the sky
Posts: 5
Final 06,

I had to laugh when I read your last sentences because I totally agree with you. BTW, I think it’s worth to mention that I am not that young anymore (mid 30th), although a started commercial flying a little bit later and therefore lacking a little bit of the “between the lines experience” in this branch. But that’s why I am here and asking questions. The point you raised, that also other branches are going down, can even be extended to the government and all the things that are going wrong in the society at all. But considering the fact nearly every branch in a downward spiral, I think our branch is still on the upper end of the conditions compared to the majority of the other branches. Of course, there are some other jobs and branches, which are better than aviation but if you really want to break the circle at least for yourself, you have to become a “skilled worker” and move to Canada or Australia. And even there, you will have some kind of fight.

If we can change something in our system than only to a very little extent. Therefore, most of us try to make the best out of the situation. That might also explain a little bit why colleagues are selling OFF days. So, where is the difference between the colleagues and the “greedy managers”. And let me honest with you, I did this also two time for longer flight to get the hours, although I am aware about the adverse “political statement”.

If I got it right, the CWA is valid until winter 2018. This matchs may planning to start my application (if I do) during and of this year. Maybe, I will have an idea what coming next with CV.

Another question that is a little bit important for my decision: What is your opinion about an additional job in the office, especially in the safety department? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to become a manager. It’s just because I am interested in the topic of safety and want to have a plan B in case of losing my medical or reducing long-haul flying when getting older (something like 50% office and 50% flying).

However, until now thanks again for the honest replies.
ChrisWithWings is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2018, 07:17
  #1492 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UR978 southbound
Posts: 56
Indeed, there are ample opportunities to work "in the office".
You would fly (and earn) less but the health effects are very positive.
This is why the training department is quite popular - in some cases regardless of qualification.
Safety department has plenty of staff now but is not impossible to achieve.

Good luck to you with your next career moves!
final06 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2018, 12:39
  #1493 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 53
Is it true Cargolux is adding an additional (ex-)TNT -ERF?
Tommy Gavin is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2018, 16:45
  #1494 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: LFJL
Posts: 1
LX-KCV Dunno where the lady's coming from.
T.A.T is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2018, 21:14
  #1495 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: earth
Posts: 64
LX-KCL, ex OO-THD
jeehaa is offline  
Old 1st May 2018, 19:36
  #1496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 312
Tomorrow and Thursday there are some roadshows in Madrid.

If if someone goes , can you give a feedback after?
trancada is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 16:19
  #1497 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Moon
Posts: 32
roadshow

Anybody went to the road show in London Stansted? And how was it?
Aeroshizzle is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 16:59
  #1498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by Aeroshizzle View Post
Anybody went to the road show in London Stansted? And how was it?
All of them are the same.

I know who went to Madrid.
They are adding 3 more 747-400 next year.
First year the salary is low,3900 net +1400 per diems, first year. If you have kids the state sponsors each with 300€ per month. Schools in Luxembourg are free. Every year you have an increment in the salary.
But to rent an apartment 2 rooms is quite expensive, so the option maybe to live in Germany, or Belgium, it is 1/2 of the price.
Fly around the world , be prepared for roster changes, sunddenly a business opportunity can appear. Example you’re in VCP, and your roster is VCP-SCL, you may have to go EZE first to load a new cargo before flying to SCL. Sometimes an ACMI operation, charter flights.
Expect to work with various cultures.
Company is not very flexible to swap rosters between colleges. The company offers good opportunities , for the F/O , to do some ground duties. Flight instruction and support.
Traveling facilities , with Cargolux , Luxair and SN BRUSSELS.
trancada is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2018, 11:23
  #1500 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 312
trancada is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.